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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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cog-nito said:
Funnily enough the weird legal situation created by dint of Hazou and Ino's romantic relationship very well might end up getting resolved through project necromancy of all things.

As once Jiraiya's back from the dead, and presumably takes back the position of Goketsu Clan head, there will be nothing stopping Hazou from marrying into Yamanaka by way of marrying Ino just like Kei married into the Nara by way of marrying Shikamaru.
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Except for him not wanting to do that, presumably. After all they are not losing anything by not getting married and only stand to lose things by doing so. Hazou stops being a Góketsu, a term which basically means "Hazou faction" at this point, cannot be privy to inner secrets of his own damn Clan going forward (lol), and starts being subordinate to Ino by Leaf law, in return for getting access to some Yamanaka secrets he doesn't even need. Marriage is a formality that neither side needs and its beyond me why people glorify the institution of the government meddling in interpersonal relationships as something worth pursuing, when its clearly something to avoid.
 
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Paperclipped said:
Given that Hazou is capable of manipulating stone at the very finest levels now, it's unlikely that any physical manipulation of stone would let him form conductive pathways within it. It may not even be possible to form conductive pathways within stone -- none of Orochimaru's experiments on substrates used stone, after all.
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Is this intended as WoG that overrides the previous in-chapter information?

eaglejarl said:
He quickly raised up another Multiple Earth Wall and recreated a blank, this time focusing on how he moved the chakra in the process, which parts he formed first and second, recreating the stroke order to the best of his ability.

He didn't even bother attempting to infuse it. He had nothing like the control he needed for this; the result was as though he had drawn the blank with his feet. Sure, if you did it carefully enough and the desired image was simple enough then you could produce something that looked generally right, but it wouldn't be what you needed. It wouldn't be the best you could make. Not unless you put in a lot of practice. Enough practice that your control with your feet was as good as your control with your hands. Which was...possible? Probably. It seemed like the chakra wanted to do what he was asking but couldn't understand him quite well enough. If he spent more time practicing with Earthshaping, if he got better... Ugh.
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eaglejarl said:
He didn't even bother attempting to infuse it. He had nothing like the control he needed for this; the result was as though he had drawn the blank with his feet. Sure, if you did it carefully enough and the desired image was simple enough then you could produce something that looked generally right, but it wouldn't be what you needed. It wouldn't be the best you could make. Not unless you put in a lot of practice. Enough practice that your control with your feet was as good as your control with your hands. Which was...possible? Probably. It seemed like the chakra wanted to do what he was asking but couldn't understand him quite well enough. If he spent more time practicing with Earthshaping, if he got better... Ugh.
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Could we... try to infuse this anyways? A sealing failure would confirm we're on the right track, just limited by our ES skill.

Seal failures are dangerous, but this could save us a lot of time and potentially prevent us from pursuing a dead-end.
And we'd know the failure is coming, so we could prep hard. Get everyone away from our old seals, have a bunch of sealmaster backup, have Tsunadae onhand, do it somewhere really remote, ect.
 
Paperclipped said:
If Hazou pushes chakra into smoothed, densified, purified stone, he will find that it radiates outwards in all directions. Physically manipulating the stone would not change the fact that the movement of chakra through the stone would be undirected
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What happens when Hazou pushes chakra into regular granite? Does it radiate outwards in all directions?
Paperclipped said:
Given that Hazou is capable of manipulating stone at the very finest levels now, it's unlikely that any physical manipulation of stone would let him form conductive pathways within it. It may not even be possible to form conductive pathways within stone -- none of Orochimaru's experiments on substrates used stone, after all
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This only works if regular granite doesn't conduct chakra to an appreciable degree. But it seems to me that you could create directional pathways from a single infusion point. Let me explain.

Construct a three dimensional object composed of granite wrapped around and over smoothed, densified, purified, stone (SDPS). The SDPS forms channels in the stone that chakra can conduct through.

Since the chakra expands regularly in all directions the "seal" has a single point that the infusion must be begun from, but then since the chakra conducts out regularly from that point, the granite insulator confines the infusing chakra to the SDPS, so it can run uninterrupted through the channels. Which have a direction, they run from the infusing point out to the end of the SDPS

Does that make sense? What does Hazou think of the idea?
 
Another idea crossed my mind. What if we altered the doping phase?

If Chakra radiates throughout the stones, I think we could look at doping thin metal layers or create a gradient concentrated iron around the chakra pathways. My thinking is that it would provide some level of containment of the chakra within the channels.

eaglejarl said:
"Quite lovely, in its own way," Cannai said. He studied the corundum 'gemstone' a moment longer. "Can you work some of the other materials into it? How precisely will the technique let you do that?"

"Let's find out," Hazō said. He turned back to the piles of dust that were left from the granite wall, thinking he would add some of the mica in hopes that the reflectiveness would give the 'gemstone' a bit of sparkle. Unfortunately, the dust had been torn apart to a miniscule size and there were no mica flakes remaining.

No problem. He peeled a layer off the mass of iron and manually rolled the corundum gem onto the foil sheet. He tore the iron foil into the smallest pieces he could manage and had them seep inwards, spreading them through the inside of the corundum.

The corundum shifted like ink being poured into water. Its color darkened into a rich, pure blue and, nine minutes later, Hazō was holding a faceted, sparkling sapphire the size of two fists.
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Instead of a uniform color, the gem would have more transparency and darken towards the actual seal.

Just a thought.
 
coldcutconvict said:
Could ask Orochimaru for a list of which "trivial" seals on the market are worth learning
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Do not do this. It's the exact kind of request that will annoy him a lot, because it doesn't feed his ego or interests and takes him a bunch of time (he'll have to check which seals are publicly available, and at the very least he'll have to write the list).
We should ask Kabuto instead.
 
coldcutconvict said:
Could ask Orochimaru for a list of which "trivial" seals on the market are worth learning
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T_of_A said:
Do not do this. It's the exact kind of request that will annoy him a lot, because it doesn't feed his ego or interests and takes him a bunch of time (he'll have to check which seals are publicly available, and at the very least he'll have to write the list).
We should ask Kabuto instead.
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Orochimaru didn't look at the library jutsu so honestly I doubt he's looked at the seals "on the market" as seals made by the riffraff are of no interest to him unless they are of interest to him
 
Paperclipped said:
Notably, strokes should never intersect for ink-and-paper sealing unless you want a sealing failure. Don't cross the streams!
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Surprised! So there are still things to learn from ink-and-paper sealing. Might be very helpful to learn how to bend the rule on intersecting strokes by looking closely at chakra channels in normal seals with a microscope. Maybe thousands of hairs on head of a brush making thousands of chakra channels on widest parts of strokes? Narrow into fewer channels on narrow parts.

Intersecting strokes are a simpler version of the 3d sealing problem. What would a solution look like? Way to finely manipulate ink. Normal brush makes all channels point in same direction. Start with single strokes with mix of straight and kinked hairs? Radial channel patterns?

What feels different about carving? Still single layer of monodirectional channels, but now channels can wiggle up and down. Simplest version of 3d is two interacting layers. When channels can wiggle up and down, two layers of channels feels more like weaving. ...with coiling, 3d chakra channels can be much much longer than flat strokes.
Sir Stompy said:
Construct a three dimensional object composed of granite wrapped around and over smoothed, densified, purified, stone (SDPS). The SDPS forms channels in the stone that chakra can conduct through.

Since the chakra expands regularly in all directions the "seal" has a single point that the infusion must be begun from, but then since the chakra conducts out regularly from that point, the granite insulator confines the infusing chakra to the SDPS, so it can run uninterrupted through the channels. Which have a direction, they run from the infusing point out to the end of the SDPS
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Good point! Important to look for strong chakra insulators. If they take up chakra better could fill channels with liquid or gas instead.
T_of_A said:
Do not do this. It's the exact kind of request that will annoy him a lot, because it doesn't feed his ego or interests and takes him a bunch of time (he'll have to check which seals are publicly available, and at the very least he'll have to write the list).
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When we were working on the GS replica he was in the same room for hours and paying us B-rank money. Does not feel too annoying to forfeit some pay for this service. Should also swap future pay for things money cannot buy.
Shrooms said:
Orochimaru didn't look at the library jutsu so honestly I doubt he's looked at the seals "on the market" as seals made by the riffraff are of no interest to him unless they are of interest to him
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He was an up and coming young seal master once. Keeps less of a finger on the pulse now. There is riffraff and there are good seals that have been around so long they have all become public knowledge. Does not have to be Orochimaru, but some way of filtering chaff is helpful and Orochimaru feels like the best filter or someone who would say learn everything, no shortcuts.
 
coldcutconvict said:
He was an up and coming young seal master once. Keeps less of a finger on the pulse now. There is riffraff and there are good seals that have been around so long they have all become public knowledge. Does not have to be Orochimaru, but some way of filtering chaff is helpful and Orochimaru feels like the best filter or someone who would say learn everything, no shortcuts.
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We could have Hazou do the filtering for us and just only get info on seals he thought would be useful

Or ask Kagome, he's more likely to have looked imo than Orochimaru
 
Paperclipped said:
Notably, strokes should never intersect for ink-and-paper sealing unless you want a sealing failure. Don't cross the streams!
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Huh, I remember a scene where Hazou said that seals reflect the sealmaster's own personal sense of beauty and that is why his brushstrokes never touched each other, implying that other sealmasters did create seals with strokes in contact with each other. Are these two rulings consistent, somehow?
 
Shrooms said:
Also, how likely does Hazou think it is that the Kurosawa have some carved seal examples for him to look at...
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He never heard a whisper of such in Mist.

Inferno Vulpix said:
Huh, I remember a scene where Hazou said that seals reflect the sealmaster's own personal sense of beauty and that is why his brushstrokes never touched each other, implying that other sealmasters did create seals with strokes in contact with each other. Are these two rulings consistent, somehow?
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A) Being beautiful and having intersecting lines are orthogonal questions.

B) Don't bother digging too deep here. Sealing is made of technobabble and occasional hints of ohcoolium.

Sir Stompy said:
Is that the Conclave update that's delayed, or the current timeline update? Or both?
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Unless Jashin's really having a field day, just the main plan.
 
So, if the problem is a lack of directionally, what if Hazō did a.... icing bag type deal. Slowly draw the seal blank in 3d, may need to be absolutely huge so that Hazō can shape it physically.

Another idea, make the seal blank with a magnetic mineral, we should be able to isolate or magnesium ore yeah? It's just the pure metal that no longer counts as earth iirc

The magnetic fields + actually aligned metals will provide directionally


OH MY GOD IT JUST CLICKED

GUYS

DOPING THE SEAL IS THE EQUIVALENT TO DRAWING IT, NOT CREATING THE SHAPE

Like, imagine if we included cutting down the tree to make the seal paper in the process for regular sealing.

Make the shape of the blank, then dope it with magnetic materials to give it directionally, then infuse it
 
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It warms my heart to see the true word spread.

But I am also uncomfortable with the amount of people still alive to share it with each other.

Jashin is indeed merciful.
 
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