Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Oneiros · Jun 17, 2022

[X] Action plan: A world of paper

Noburi and the Toads
- get Cannai's approval first
- Have Noburi consult with Gambunta, Ma & Pa about if there is any toad that might be willing to travel to dog for a few months.
  - Is there anyone who really likes to travel?
  - Someone who is upset with their life circumstances and wants a new start
  - Someone in debt who would be willing to go if we cleared everything
  - Could Noburi offer a big enough payment to the bosses so they would put pressure on their subordinates to go?
Hazou and Kagome in the 7th path
- Go and examine the great seal.
  - Once Kagome has seen it in person get his opinion on what we need to do to stabilize it
- Discuss strategies that we could use to kill another dragon
  - If Kagome has seen any of them see if he thinks they have any weakness
  - With MARS we can sit up a killing field that we can activate from a safe distance.
  - That plus a Skyslicer would trap the dragon between the ground and the aerial trap

zxzx24 · Jun 17, 2022

FaintlySorcerous said:
Tone: double checking. Not doubt.

Learning a new element is a huge investment. It's your call, but the time you spend training is time you're not spending on medicine or jutsu.

Have you thought about teaching some Toads MARI?

This is just doubting him yeah.

If you think it's important enough to bring up you should probably just talk to him about our concerns honestly?

What are the concerns with him learning earth element?

Maybe put off studying Naruto? Or at least proffer a good reason why we need to study him, or that studying him would be very helpful.

Looks good otherwise.

Hm is Naruto cleared for his dad's notes?

And maybe... eh maybe. Maybe maybe.

Going over the notes with Naruto could be a great way to bond with him, and a great way to piss him off.

I think it's very important that we make it clear were doing this because they are his fathers, and we think he deserves to know. Not because we want to study him. Though pilot could take care of that themselves.

FaintlySorcerous · Jun 17, 2022

zxzx24 said:
If you think it's important enough to bring up you should probably just talk to him about our concerns honestly?

I'm trying to do that. Do you have suggested wording?

zxzx24 said:
What are the concerns with him learning earth element?

It's 1000 XP when he has other things he wants to learn (medicine, jutsu) which are languishing in inattention.

zxzx24 said:
Maybe put off studying Naruto? Or at least proffer a good reason why we need to study him, or that studying him would be very helpful.

I'm hoping the 'tread lightly unless it seems like it's going to go well' will cover that.

zxzx24 said:
Hm is Naruto cleared for his dad's notes?

Asuma will tell us and nix the idea if not.

roobee · Jun 17, 2022

we could harness hivemind of goketsu civilians.
ask them to tell us good ideas.
give example problems and info. like unique ways of using summoning and summoning scrolls. and give them info on it like indestructibility and etc. assuming is not classified info.
tricky part is how to filter so not swamped with low quality ideas. we have gaku, but he's already busy.

zxzx24 · Jun 17, 2022

FaintlySorcerous said:
It's 1000 XP when he has other things he wants to learn (medicine, jutsu) which are languishing in inattention.

Did he ask to learn earth element? If it's what he wanted then vs what he wants now hes probably thought about it himself.

Though maybe not it is Noburi.

Has he asked about training for all of those recently

FaintlySorcerous said:
I'm hoping the 'tread lightly unless it seems like it's going to go well' will cover that.

I'll take ya at your word for it. I'm not usually in on plan voting, but you asked for feedback and with only two votes I figured I would slap myself if I didnt take a look.

MrRobot · Jun 17, 2022

Yeah im think this ia the time to handle ami like we have to deal with Kei when she was freaking out.

Mainly we need to help she to order his though and define what the real mori ami, in her innermost self, truly wants.

It seems to me that she wants to self actualize so we should frame it using Kei as a metric. Because in fact despite her disposition to doubt and hate herself, their sister is a genius on Self actualization.

They mortals, would have to struggle. (And Hazõ a walker too, he is painfully aware of his shortcomings and under no illusions he truly is mr uplift) So if she truly want to be like Kei she needs to understand what she wants and what she lacks.

What she lacks is something entirely personal and what she wants is her goal to define, if she is doubt where to start, atempting to truly become the Ami Kei thinks she is sounds like a valid first step, not becoming not atempting to look like it but taking steps to a goal so she can figure herself ehat she really wants and how she will become that.

In the end honestly Ami was dealt a bad hand on that front, Yagura's mist hole point is to destroy personhood, I&S even more, she past trough that and by virtue of being a jounin it left a mark. But she is Mori Ami the one that between many accomplishments did more to Byakuren's dream than all their clans in her life, the one that broke world peace and moved the world. She is perfectly capable to do the impossible, get back what she thinks she lost should be a cakewalk.

________

That sounds better on my mind but it is what it is words are hard.

roobee · Jun 17, 2022

safety ideas for kagome looking at great seal:
brainstorm with Nara and Kei. and maybe Ami.
stay far away from great seal. use skywalker to get above the step. use long distance vision to see the seal.
long distance vision methods (telescope, jutsu, etc.). ask asuma and summons for these.
shadow clone? is level high enough that range requirement is satisfied?

Emstar · Jun 17, 2022

FaintlySorcerous said:
[X] Action Plan: Should We Be Worried EJ Said This Meeting Sounded Fun?
Word Count: 291

(offscreen?) Get caught up on what we've missed.

MARI, AMITY, other acronyms and goings-on.

Catch up with family and friends. Spend time with Harumitsu.

Noburi:

Tone: double checking. Not doubt.

Learning a new element is a huge investment. It's your call, but the time you spend training is time you're not spending on medicine or jutsu.

Have you thought about teaching some Toads MARI?

Biju Sealing Notes:

Revisit the notes with the corrected journals. Update our theories accordingly.

Talk/sanity-check with Mari.

Confirm it's appropriate to update Asuma/talk to Naruto. Optimize our approach. Don't break OPSEC talking to Mari.

Asuma:

Update him on our breakthrough, and our theory that the seal molds onto a chakra system.

May we continue investigating this? Our goal is to (eventually) make our findings available to Leaf's (cleared) sealmasters.

May we approach Naruto to discuss this? It's part of his legacy.

May we approach Naruto to ask if we can study his seal?

Strictly observation and only what's necessary to confirm our theories. Nothing that could disrupt the seal.

We're asking you as the Hokage and someone who knows Naruto well.

Naruto:

Give an update on studying the rift.

If permitted, share Minato's notes/poetry.

We imagine he's already read them, but we have some memories of our Dad doing romantic things for Hana. The notes in the margin aren't the same, but if our Dad kept a journal or something, we'd want to read through it and feel close to him.

Explain the poetry contains instructions/notes.

Explain our chakra system theory.

Feel him out on eventually studying his seal.

Tread very lightly - we don't need to do this any time soon, so don't bring it up unless it seems likely it'll be well-received.

I am fine with voting for this so long as the core components remain unchanged by any misc. editing horse trading that happens after my vote. Those being:

1)Talking to Noburi about stuff with the above tone.
2)Speaking to Asuma and Naruto about the bijuu seals.
3)Specifically asking Naruto (lightly, politely, it matters not) about the possibility of actively studying his seal.

I will check before voting closes that these are still there, and if not, I'll change my vote.

[X] Action Plan: Should We Be Worried EJ Said This Meeting Sounded Fun?

To increase the chances of this plan being passed as-is, I am going to fork a copy of it as of this post. I will not edit this post.

[X] Action Plan: Fork of FS's Plan, As Of 12:54PM NY Time, 6/17/22
Word Count: 291

(offscreen?) Get caught up on what we've missed.
- MARI, AMITY, other acronyms and goings-on.
- Catch up with family and friends. Spend time with Harumitsu.
Noburi:
- Tone: double checking. Not doubt.
- Learning a new element is a huge investment. It's your call, but the time you spend training is time you're not spending on medicine or jutsu.
  - Have you thought about teaching some Toads MARI?
Biju Sealing Notes:
- Revisit the notes with the corrected journals. Update our theories accordingly.
- Talk/sanity-check with Mari.
  - Confirm it's appropriate to update Asuma/talk to Naruto. Optimize our approach. Don't break OPSEC talking to Mari.
- Asuma:
  - Update him on our breakthrough, and our theory that the seal molds onto a chakra system.
  - May we continue investigating this? Our goal is to (eventually) make our findings available to Leaf's (cleared) sealmasters.
  - May we approach Naruto to discuss this? It's part of his legacy.
  - May we approach Naruto to ask if we can study his seal?
    - Strictly observation and only what's necessary to confirm our theories. Nothing that could disrupt the seal.
    - We're asking you as the Hokage and someone who knows Naruto well.
- Naruto:
  - Give an update on studying the rift.
  - If permitted, share Minato's notes/poetry.
    - We imagine he's already read them, but we have some memories of our Dad doing romantic things for Hana. The notes in the margin aren't the same, but if our Dad kept a journal or something, we'd want to read through it and feel close to him.
  - Explain the poetry contains instructions/notes.
  - Explain our chakra system theory.
  - Feel him out on eventually studying his seal.
    - Tread very lightly - we don't need to do this any time soon, so don't bring it up unless it seems likely it'll be well-received.

Shrooms · Jun 17, 2022

[X] Action Plan: Fork of FS's Plan, As Of 12:54PM NY Time, 6/17/22

FaintlySorcerous · Jun 17, 2022

zxzx24 said:
Did he ask to learn earth element? If it's what he wanted then vs what he wants now hes probably thought about it himself.

Yes, he did. I don't think that double-checking what his intended order or operations is constitutes some social gaffe.

MMKII said:
1)Talking to Noburi about stuff with the above tone.
2)Speaking to Asuma and Naruto about the bijuu seals.
3)Specifically asking Naruto (lightly, politely, it matters not) about the possibility of actively studying his seal.

I consider all of these integral elements of the plan and they will not be disappearing.

It's possible but not likely that the Noburi section will altered a little bit, but it's going to include politely asking him 'hey, what do you want to do first'.

zxzx24 · Jun 17, 2022

FaintlySorcerous said:
Yes, he did. I don't think that double-checking what his intended order or operations is constitutes some social gaffe.

It may or may not be. "Are you sure you want to do this?" Which as a GM I can tell you is double speak for "this is a bad idea."

On the other hand you do seem to want to make sure he really wants the thing he asked for. So.

You are definetly communicating you think it's a bad idea, but without being explicit about it. Hm.

How about. Pretty much just what you said.

"Would you rather work on Jutsu and Medicine or Earth Element first?"

Gives him agency. Expresses implicit improved for his idea about earth element. Talks to him about his ideal order of operations.

I cant see much room to fuck up here, but if someone sees something let me know.

MMKII said:
well-received

FaintlySorcerous said:
consider all of these integral elements of the plan and they will not be disappearing.

Talking to Naruto.

So if this is likely to be a sensitive issue why are we tackling it?

What are we gaining from talking studying Naruto?

Is it necessary for opening the rift? Helpful? Is it curiosity?

Emstar · Jun 17, 2022

zxzx24 said:
Talking to Naruto.

So if this is likely to be a sensitive issue why are we tackling it?

What are we gaining from talking studying Naruto?

Is it necessary for opening the rift? Helpful? Is it curiosity?

More information on the Bijuu seals (of any sort) could be integral to either opening the Rift or fixing the Great Seal. These seals were designed to keep giant eldritch abominations stuck inside a child's stomach(by some means, which may very well be something akin to "make a pocket dimension and stuff them into the thing, tweak it so that the pocket dimension is useful in XYZ manner"), so there are some pretty strong priors on them being helpful with at least one of the big ticket items we have on our plate right now.

Inferno Vulpix · Jun 17, 2022

[X] Action Plan: Should We Be Worried EJ Said This Meeting Sounded Fun?

ContextBot · Jun 17, 2022

[X] Action Plan: Should We Be Worried EJ Said This Meeting Sounded Fun?
[X] Action Plan: Fork of FS's Plan, As Of 12:54PM NY Time, 6/17/22

RandomOTP said:
Ami's only, what, 18? 19? And she's an I&S jonin, with all the trauma that entails (remember: she was trained Harumitsu's age to be victim and predator, both). Ami is terrified, but wants to go through with telling Hazou all of this. It's important.

MrRobot said:
In the end honestly Ami was dealt a bad hand on that front, Yagura's mist hole point is to destroy personhood, I&S even more, she past trough that and by virtue of being a jounin it left a mark.

We met plenty of normal Mist ninja.

I am all in favor to discuss the negatives of being a nobel born person, but Ami was born into one of the most powerful clans both in Mist and in the world arguably, while being considered a genius and getting tutored (at least partially) by Mist's Shikaku.

~~And we don't know when she started I&S training~~, Kei was suprised that was learning under Mari specifically:

Velorien said:
Wait." Kei rewound the conversation in her mind. "Mari-sensei?!"

"Oh, yeah," Ami said. "I'm your senior student. Mari-sensei was one of the people who showed me the ropes back when I was a young and innocent chūnin. There aren't that many I&S specs in Mist, you know. She and I were never close—not that the Heartbreaker was close with anyone—but we worked well together. I helped her keep her hand in during downtime, and she gave me some very effective pointers. Hey, maybe she can tell me why my disguise skills have gone rusty all of a sudden."

Ami started training as a chunnin, huh. Still 14nish but no actual action I guess. People also have more than one teacher, Hazou alone had "Mako-sensei", "Shikigami-sensei" Mari and Kagome. (Jiraiya doesn't count)

Trauma isn't really a competition, but Ami isn't a super mega victim. Let's not go overboard with how bad she had it.

FaintlySorcerous · Jun 17, 2022

zxzx24 said:
Gives him agency. Expresses implicit improved for his idea about earth element. Talks to him about his ideal order of operations.

I've updated the wording (below) to be more in line with this.

zxzx24 said:
So if this is likely to be a sensitive issue why are we tackling it?
...
What are we gaining from talking studying Naruto?

Minato's notes are potentially incomplete or beyond the comprehension of anyone who is both friendly towards us and alive on a Path we can access. If Naruto lets us look at his seal, we can confirm that our theory (sealing onto chakra systems) is correct.

A big draw for Asuma is that if we figure this out, we can release the notes and our interpretation to Leaf's cleared sealmasters, and potentially usher in a new era of sealtech. (That's not a WMD, right?) We can't release the notes until we've actually confirmed our theories - I suspect it would be easier and cause less collateral damage to the village to simply slit the throats of the sealmasters in question.

Looking at the only copy of the seal in question is a great way to confirm our theories, and potentially the only way.

Velorien said:
In the end, spoons rule over us all, and Ami has a tendency to write herself whereas I was struggling to figure out how to make a chūnin introduction sufficiently interesting.

I can't help but notice that you don't deny that this 'Ami' is, indeed, three chuunin in an overcoat. It would certainly pass the threshold of being 'sufficiently interesting', and it sounds like the sort of thing that Ami would try.

Veeery interesting.

FaintlySorcerous said:
[X] Action Plan: Should We Be Worried EJ Said This Meeting Sounded Fun?
Word Count: <300

(offscreen?) Get caught up on what we've missed.

MARI, AMITY, other acronyms and goings-on.

Catch up with family and friends. Spend time with Harumitsu.

Noburi:

You want to learn a lot of things - we want to confirm the order.

Is Earth Element still the priority. It's okay to delay medicine and jutsu?

Have you considered teaching some Toads MARI as a temporary stopgap?

Biju sealing notes:

Revisit the notes with the corrected journals. Update our theories accordingly.

Talk/sanity-check with Mari.

Confirm it's appropriate to update Asuma/talk to Naruto. How can we optimize our approach?

Don't break OPSEC talking to Mari.

Asuma:

Update him on our breakthrough, and theory that the seal molds onto chakra systems.

May we continue investigating this? We hope to (eventually) make our findings available to Leaf's (cleared) sealmasters.

May we discuss this with Naruto? It's part of his legacy.

May ask Naruto about studying his seal, if/when it's necessary?

Strictly observation. Only what's necessary to confirm our theories. Nothing that could disrupt the seal.

We're asking you as the Hokage and someone who knows Naruto well.

Naruto:

Give an update on studying the rift.

If permitted, share Minato's notes/poetry.

We imagine he's already read them, but we have memories of our Dad doing romantic things for our Mom. Marginalia isn't the same, but if our Dad kept a journal or something, we'd want to read through it and feel close to him.

Explain the poetry contains instructions/notes.

Explain our chakra system theory.

Could be the critical insight in fixing the Great Seal/opening the Rift. Minato was a genius.

Feel him out on eventually studying his seal.

Tread very lightly - we don't need to do this anytime soon.

Leave it unless it seems likely to be well-received.

A few updates to the plan - mostly minor. I approach Noburi a little differently and float the idea of teaching Toads MARI, and slightly massaged the Naruto section.

I call upon @Shrooms, @faflec, @Inferno Vulpix, @MMKII, and @ContextBot to review and ratify these changes.

faflec · Jun 17, 2022

FaintlySorcerous said:
Is Earth Element still the priority.

Is this a question?

FaintlySorcerous · Jun 17, 2022

faflec said:
Is this a question?

Yes. Fixed.

zxzx24 · Jun 17, 2022

MMKII said:
More information on the Bijuu seals (of any sort) could be integral to either opening the Rift or fixing the Great Seal. These seals were designed to keep giant eldritch abominations stuck inside a child's stomach(by some means, which may very well be something akin to "make a pocket dimension and stuff them into the thing, tweak it so that the pocket dimension is useful in XYZ manner"), so there are some pretty strong priors on them being helpful with at least one of the big ticket items we have on our plate right now.

FaintlySorcerous said:
Minato's notes are potentially incomplete or beyond the comprehension of anyone who is both friendly towards us and alive on a Path we can access. If Naruto lets us look at his seal, we can confirm that our theory (sealing onto chakra systems) is correct.

A big draw for Asuma is that if we figure this out, we can release the notes and our interpretation to Leaf's cleared sealmasters, and potentially usher in a new era of sealtech. (That's not a WMD, right?) We can't release the notes until we've actually confirmed our theories - I suspect it would be easier and cause less collateral damage to the village to simply slit the throats of the sealmasters in question.

Looking at the only copy of the seal in question is a great way to confirm our theories, and potentially the only way.

Good to know.

This is a more long form take of... broaching the subject carefully right?

Assuming the sanity check with Mari is for our whole plan and covers talking to him about the sealing stuff then hands down yeah.

[X] Action Plan: Should We Be Worried EJ Said This Meeting Sounded Fun?

Hm.

Maybe we should start asking other people to sanity check our plans?

...

Yeah probably not never mind.

Lord Marshal · Jun 17, 2022

[X] Action Plan: Should We Be Worried EJ Said This Meeting Sounded Fun?

MrRobot · Jun 17, 2022

ContextBot said:
We met plenty of normal Mist ninja.

I am all in favor to discuss the negatives of being a nobel born person, but Ami was born into one of the most powerful clans both in Mist and in the world arguably, while being considered a genius and getting tutored (at least partially) by Mist's Shikaku.

~~And we don't know when she started I&S training~~, Kei was suprised that was learning under Mari specifically:

You are missing the forest for the trees here, does not matter if she is a big victim Mari's specially the heartbreaker brand of training will mess you up. And ami is a jounin, she is functional but by definition she is messed up.
Im not talking for radom but what i want is not pitty in truth Hazõ can do little to help.
What we can do is point her in the right direction and be there to listening if is something too sensitive to talk to Kei about. And hopefully she can help herself.
The road to ami become a better person is indded at least as hard as Mari's

RandomOTP · Jun 17, 2022

[X] Action Plan: Should We Be Worried EJ Said This Meeting Sounded Fun?

[X] Action Plan: Fork of FS's Plan, As Of 12:54PM NY Time, 6/17/22

@FaintlySorcerous: can you add a tonal indicator of: 100% support you, matter your decision? I want to try and avoid a Foot-in-Mouth situation, and want to emphasize respecting Noburi's agency.

FaintlySorcerous · Jun 17, 2022

RandomOTP said:
@FaintlySorcerous: can you add a tonal indicator of: 100% support you, matter your decision? I want to try and avoid a Foot-in-Mouth situation, and want to emphasize respecting Noburi's agency.

Done. I actually quite like the sound of Noburi's Great Toad Road, and it might even increase his reputation with the Toads. Who doesn't want to be adored by thousands of merchants? Summons are revered as powerful ninja, but as the Romans taught us, civil engineering is forever.

'This is where Gamasutra and his innumerable consorts erected the Incredible Overpass'.

'We come and go so easily over Gamagamagameleon's Highway, may her name be forever blessed!'

...do you think the Toads would want fan mail?

FaintlySorcerous said:
Noburi:

Goal: confirm Noburi's intentions re: high-level training plan.

Tone: fully supportive, respecting his agency.

You want to learn Earth Element, medicine, jutsu - in that order? What's the priority?

Could you teach Toads MARI until you have Earth Element? (Joking: Noburi's Great Toad Road?)

I am going to be busy-ish from now to the close of voting. I'll make an attempt to take a look tomorrow morning, before the close of voting, but suggestions which are easy to integrate are much, much likelier to be added as I'll likely have limited time.

Shrooms · Jun 17, 2022

FaintlySorcerous said:
Gamasutra

It's funny, I made a very similar pun in lost on the road of life with a mantis summon

redzonejoe · Jun 17, 2022

Velorien said:
What do you do?

Write a note. Hand it to Ami when parting. When Ami feels like she's ready to hear (read) Hazo's unprocessed, raw emotional response, she can read the note. otherwise she can of course throw away, burn, or shred the note, and talk to Hazo about the subject later after he's had time to think things through properly. (throwing away an undamaged note is not recommended, but may lead to various dramatic consequences which may match certain definitions of fun)

As for the contents of the note... idk. Maybe something like "Wow that was pretty cool thx for sharing can we get married yet?" but that's just me.

roobee · Jun 17, 2022

wonder if the yamanaka have a hivemind made of clan members stashed away somewhere in their compound.

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

In doubt there's always the Sun!

The Shining One

The Shining One

In doubt there's always the Sun!

Vaguely Pastafarian