Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Paperclipped · Jun 11, 2022

Shrooms said:
HM and PEA stack, don't they? If the concern is that a chakra beast is going to kill him or whatever. I guess action economy still matters against giant otters or whatever, shrug

Alas, there isn't much reason for him to be fighting ninja these days

EDIT: tbh it kind of seems like Summoning is always the best option for our 3 summoners, rather than using the chakra themselves. All the more reason to just buy CR I suppose

Chakra beasts are not a problem imo. Ninja fights may yet happen if the stagnancy stuff pulls through.

Defensive techniques are still good, since they let you survive long enough for your summons to sweep up. Still, 1000 XP for PEA is expensive. Even HM 50 is only 500 XP for him. When you compare against the opportunity cost of raising Alertness so he can move first, or Ath/Sub to dodge (both of which move him closer to jounin), or even his other good armor techniquu or HitM or WDB... it seems really hard to justify.

kitkatnacho · Jun 11, 2022

faflec said:
I'm sorry, could you explain this? I seem to recall Jiraiya getting us jutsu for the Exams, for both the preliminary tests and the tournament.

Here is my reasoning: Jiraiya got us jutsu for the exams, because he wanted us to win, because he wanted Leaf to look good. He didn't get us jutsu because he wanted us to flourish. If he did, he would have gotten those teachers for us before the Exams were announced. My model of him says if the Exams were never announced, he would continue to neglect our training in favour of other things for a very long time. (training here refers to quality training of the kind Naruto and clan kids got, such as personal instruction from great teachers and tutoring in clan secret techniques)

Shrooms · Jun 11, 2022

Paperclipped said:
Chakra beasts are not a problem imo. Ninja fights may yet happen if the stagnancy stuff pulls through.

Defensive techniques are still good, since they let you survive long enough for your summons to sweep up. Still, 1000 XP for PEA is expensive. Even HM 50 is only 500 XP for him. When you compare against the opportunity cost of raising Alertness so he can move first, or Ath/Sub to dodge (both of which move him closer to jounin), or even his other good armor techniquu or HitM or WDB... it seems really hard to justify.

He does also get access to tunneling jutsus which are pretty nifty for escaping (not saying they're worth 1k but it helps.)

Paperclipped · Jun 11, 2022

Shrooms said:
He does also get access to tunneling jutsus which are pretty nifty for escaping (not saying they're worth 1k but it helps.)

Eh. Reverse Summoning.

faflec · Jun 11, 2022

kitkatnacho said:
Here is my reasoning: Jiraiya got us jutsu for the exams, because he wanted us to win, because he wanted Leaf to look good. He didn't get us jutsu because he wanted us to flourish. If he did, he would have gotten those teachers for us before the Exams were announced. My model of him says if the Exams were never announced, he would continue to neglect our training in favour of other things for a very long time. (training here refers to quality training of the kind Naruto and clan kids got, such as personal instruction from great teachers and tutoring in clan secret techniques)

I'm not going to get into an extended debate about this but will observe that 1) the time between the end of the Minami mission and Jiraiya announcing the Chunin Exams to us was a week (10 days if you want to be pedantic about things); and 2) because of the result of the Minami mission (us getting traumatized due to Sunset Racer and Minami-related deaths) Jiraiya explicitly told us that he would give us recovery time, which IMO does not involve us doing training like learning new jutsu.

Shrooms · Jun 11, 2022

Paperclipped said:
Eh. Reverse Summoning.

If you already have a summon out, right? I guess it's a Standard either way. Still, there are times where it could be handy

~~Tunneling is also useful for stealth purposes, not that we put much attention toward that either~~

eaglejarl · Jun 11, 2022

Paperclipped said:
On-ramps with what? MEW won't do that, neither will Mari. Just by hand? I suppose laying down a few logs and lashing them together isn't hard.

Dig a sloped trench, cast MaRI inside it. The top of the wall will have the same slope as the trench.

Paperclipped said:
Sometimes, people want the wrong thing. Other times they're right. In this case, a 1000 XP investment for one rather unimpressive jutsu...

1025, actually. The jutsu itself costs 25.

;>

[EDIT: Actually, it's less than that. Getting a new element costs 1000 XP but you immediately get 500 XP worth of techniques in that element, so the cost isn't quite as brutal as it seems as long as you have something you actually want to do there.]

Shrooms said:
EDIT: tbh it kind of seems like Summoning is always the best option for our 3 summoners, rather than using the chakra themselves. All the more reason to just buy CR I suppose

As I recall, Crunbum did a lot of math and several white-room simulations to work out that Shadow Clone was better than summoning, at least if you're willing to accept a Mild and/or Moderate Consequence in order to scrape up a few extra CP via chakra overdraw. I'm not sure if that was a fully general answer or only applies to the case where you are facing 1-2 opponents.

Paperclipped · Jun 11, 2022

eaglejarl said:
Dig a sloped trench, cast MaRI inside it. The top of the wall will have the same slope as the trench.

Mari always being flat was a big point in the chapter? Seems critical for roads if you don't want to spend a year prepping the terrain first.

eaglejarl said:
As I recall, Crunbum did a lot of math and several white-room simulations to work out that Shadow Clone was better than summoning, at least if you're willing to accept a Mild and/or Moderate Consequence in order to scrape up a few extra CP via chakra overdraw. I'm not sure if that was a fully general answer or only applies to the case where you are facing 1-2 opponents.

I don't think this is true.

RandomOTP · Jun 11, 2022

eaglejarl said:
Dig a sloped trench, cast MaRI inside it. The top of the wall will have the same slope as the trench.

Paperclipped said:
Mari always being flat was a big point in the chapter? Seems critical for roads if you don't want to spend a year prepping the terrain first

Why not use a MEW ramp? New can be made at any angle (as seen by Goketsu Estate apartments), provided it's not a flat plane. Use a low-incline MEW to connect with the MaRI Road.

If the two don't mesh 100%, then set the MEW incline to connect with the upper ridge of the MaRI Road, and pack the small seam with gravel/treesap/whatevs to serve as a mesh?

RandomOTP · Jun 11, 2022

~~Ignore the post, I'm tots asleep right now~~

eaglejarl · Jun 11, 2022

Paperclipped said:
Mari always being flat was a big point in the chapter? Seems critical for roads if you don't want to spend a year prepping the terrain first.

It's always vertical and straight, and it always has the same dimensions, but I don't believe anything was said about flatness...what am I forgetting? The fact that the height is constant essentially requires it to conform to the terrain.

Paperclipped said:
I don't think this is true.

Yeah, it was definitely a contestable point. For one thing, the way I recall it, the strategy Crunbum came up with was "make as many Shadow Clones as you can, take Consequences to overdraw chakra so that you have enough for one round of combat, beat your opponent(s) into the ground." Which is great if you're fighting a small enough people that you can get them all in one round, less so if not. Also, Summoning doesn't leave you injured and it means that you can simply disappear from the universe in order to escape a foe you can't otherwise fight.

Cariyaga · Jun 12, 2022

Also, just having more chakra is a pretty solid strategy in general. There's a lot of ways you can play out attrition, and even more for Noburi. Summoning + Vamp Dew to drain enemies would be pretty brutal.

Aodyssey · Jun 12, 2022

I had a thought last time I read Akanes POV chapter that no one really complimented Hazou's physical looks, compared to the thoughts/attention Hazou had about his gfs/others attribute. In fact the last time I recalled people complimenting Hazous muscles it was Mari.

Paperclipped · Jun 12, 2022

eaglejarl said:
It's always vertical and straight, and it always has the same dimensions, but I don't believe anything was said about flatness...what am I forgetting? The fact that the height is constant essentially requires it to conform to the terrain.

"The wall is always vertical"
PLAYERS - Known Jutsu

eaglejarl said:
Yeah, it was definitely a contestable point. For one thing, the way I recall it, the strategy Crunbum came up with was "make as many Shadow Clones as you can, take Consequences to overdraw chakra so that you have enough for one round of combat, beat your opponent(s) into the ground." Which is great if you're fighting a small enough people that you can get them all in one round, less so if not. Also, Summoning doesn't leave you injured and it means that you can simply disappear from the universe in order to escape a foe you can't otherwise fight.

Depends on your stats and your opponents stats and what you know about them and what they know about you and... It's powerful, but very far from a "you always do this"

If Honoka spams SC, she surely dies with her bad combat stats -- a Summon will easily be better. If Gai spams SC, few summons could be as cheap or effective as those clones that can reliably attack and dodge at 70+, no chakra required.

Overdrawing to dodge the downsides of SC chakra scarcity is a good tactic, but can be foiled by (e.g.) the enemy not committing and letting you take the Consequence penalties. Fortunately, combats in this system are dynamic enough that there's no one-size fits all solution. Even buffstacking ninjutsu can be bad, though we hate to admit it.

RandomOTP · Jun 12, 2022

Aodyssey said:
I had a thought last time I read Akanes POV chapter that no one really complimented Hazou's physical looks, compared to the thoughts/attention Hazou had about his gfs/others attribute. In fact the last time I recalled people complimenting Hazous muscles it was Mari.

IIRC, a girl in the Chunnin Exams thought Hazou was attractive.

Lysbeth Succubus · Jun 12, 2022

RandomOTP said:
IIRC, a girl in the Chunnin Exams thought Hazou was attractive.

This invites many thoughts re: "ninja beauty". Of course they're aware of civilian standards and share some of them, I&S works that way, but they obviously must have a different opinion of scars and such. They might find big scars particularly attractive, as they show the individual came back from dangerous missions and as such is both reliable and patriotic. Not directly related but I'm sure this culture of violence and danger should sprout interesting ideals of body shape and appearance

RandomOTP · Jun 12, 2022

Lysbeth Succubus said:
This invites many thoughts re: "ninja beauty". Of course they're aware of civilian standards and share some of them, I&S works that way, but they obviously must have a different opinion of scars and such. They might find big scars particularly attractive, as they show the individual came back from dangerous missions and as such is both reliable and patriotic. Not directly related but I'm sure this culture of violence and danger should sprout interesting ideals of body shape and appearance

Doesn't Hazou have scars in his thighs from chakra voles? I remember Mari saying something similar to what your proposing to Hazou when he initially got hurt.

Lysbeth Succubus · Jun 12, 2022

RandomOTP said:
Doesn't Hazou have scars in his thighs from chakra voles? I remember Mari saying something similar to what your proposing to Hazou when he initially got hurt.

She might have said something to the effect of "chicks dig scars", that'd be her style.

Wait, had a brainwave...

Petition to never let Mori "I Say I Don't Kinkshame In The Most Judgmental Way Possible" Ami know Hazō has thigh scars!

Aodyssey · Jun 12, 2022

Hyuuga has Ninja standards of voyuerism. So I guess we should find an excuse to go talk to Hinata, maybe she'll bring it up

Shrooms · Jun 12, 2022

Aodyssey said:
I had a thought last time I read Akanes POV chapter that no one really complimented Hazou's physical looks, compared to the thoughts/attention Hazou had about his gfs/others attribute. In fact the last time I recalled people complimenting Hazous muscles it was Mari.

RandomOTP said:
IIRC, a girl in the Chunnin Exams thought Hazou was attractive.

I feel like we've been told that ninja are all in the prime of their life and pretty much all of them are attractive, barring some especially egregious scarring

The real question is if he's attractive for a ninja

I still suspect this is the case honestly. Ino was interested in him because he still had Uchiha looks and was a mysterious missingnin guy. Sasuke is still considered fairly attractive too I think. Maybe civilians all love him but are either scared of him, scared of his gfs, or he just doesn't notice. "I love you lord Goketsu!" "And I love you, random citizen!

"

Honestly it really seems like Hazou just doesn't pay attention to people liking him unless he likes them first, in which case he's a lot smoother and less dumb.

Lord Marshal · Jun 12, 2022

Hazou, much like Keiko, is a celebrity for the people of Leaf: he's extremely rich, the adoptive son of an hero of Leaf(That was also Hokage), wielder of a mythical artifact(Summon Scroll) that was used by another hero of the village, and he's also one of the few people that can actually vote on the future of Leaf.(And also one of the best Sealmasters in the village at chuunin)
Hazou, regardless of his personal qualities, would have scores of people interested in him, for a variety of reasons. Especially the civilians, he's probably seen as an savior by the majority of the civilians and a role model/hero by the majority of the clanless.

Aodyssey · Jun 12, 2022

It's mostly an observation because I noticed Hazou doesn't get any compliments in-the-text when Akane and Ino was fawning over him, rather than his measurable levels of attractiveness

Shrooms · Jun 12, 2022

Aodyssey said:
It's mostly an observation because I noticed Hazou doesn't get any compliments in-the-text when Akane and Ino was fawning over him, rather than his measurable levels of attractiveness

We have to stay PG

Shrooms · Jun 12, 2022

Perhaps if Noburi is still dead set on learning earth Element we can look for jutsu in the library that better complements his build?

Lysbeth Succubus · Jun 12, 2022

Shrooms said:
I feel like we've been told that ninja are all in the prime of their life and pretty much all of them are attractive, barring some especially egregious scarring

The real question is if he's attractive for a ninja

I still suspect this is the case honestly. Ino was interested in him because he still had Uchiha looks and was a mysterious missingnin guy. Sasuke is still considered fairly attractive too I think. Maybe civilians all love him but are either scared of him, scared of his gfs, or he just doesn't notice. "I love you lord Goketsu!" "And I love you, random citizen! "

Honestly it really seems like Hazou just doesn't pay attention to people liking him unless he likes them first, in which case he's a lot smoother and less dumb.

PROJECT: OMNICULE

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Handsome Gentleperson

The glass will not protecc you

The glass will not protecc you

The glass will not protecc you