The main precedent I remember on matters like this is that FOOM, if it were discovered, would most likely not get clan secret protection because it's not the jutsu itself but an application of the jutsu. A novel innovation nonetheless, but it seems Leaf's understanding of clan secrets is more restrictive than that. Of course, we can keep it secret by just never telling anyone, but in this case the value of the bijuu seal is in other people knowing we can do it, so that wouldn't be any help.
The other side of things is that (outside of Orochimaru) there are few, if any other sealmasters in Leaf who can match Kagome in Sealing. It's quite possible that even if Asuma shared them with every Leaf sealmaster we'd still be the only one (except Oro) who could do it. Factor in how this seal is so secret Minato kept even his own personal notes encoded with poetry, and I can easily imagine Asuma simply not wanting to tell anyone else about them (especially not Oro, who has enough leverage over him already). He'd keep copies of the notes and the key riddle to deciphering them, in case Kagome dies and someone else needs to learn how to do it, but I can easily see us remaining the only sealmasters in Leaf with Minato's secret even if we do nothing and leave it up for Asuma to decide.
I think I failed to explain my exact thinking. Right now we just have better notes and, I don't think that is a clan secret. But what I do think would be a clan secret would be any seals that we derive from these better notes.
I think I failed to explain my exact thinking. Right now we just have better notes and, I don't think that is a clan secret. But what I do think would be a clan secret would be any seals that we derive from these better notes.
Ah, yeah that is entirely true. Maybe not an exact recreation of Minato's bijuu seal, but taking this as the springboard for our own projects yeah we would 100% own everything from there.
"Yes," Kagome said. "It's called biosealing. I don't know much about it, but I do know that it involves tattooing on skin and carving on bone. There's barely a handful of people who practice it because it's batbutt insane." He cocked his head in thought. "Going back to that earlier bit, about the seal being tattooed on. I'm not sure that's right. At its base, this is a seal that contains chakra and feeds it into a human chakra system. This is insane, but what if it's drawn on the Fox's...on Naruto's chakra system? It's not a seal per se, it's a chakra construct embedded in his skin."
Does this sound to anyone else like 1) A means for Minato do the canon trick of applying seals by touch and 2)A means to give his Flying Thunder God technique a personal anchor?
I think we need to tell Naruto with Asuma. Him being told afterwards might cause social complications, because... well technically Minato could be considered to be part of his clan, and thus it could trip sensibilities regarding that. It's just hypothetical, but I think it's likely enough that we should have Naruto in the room with Asuma when we explain it.
So, the Nagi seapost gone, not destroyed. Someone took it. Prime suspects are Mist (Proximity, available personnel) and Rock (Earth Jutsu needed to move seal). The Nagi "Machine" Seal is possibly related to the Great Seal. We know for a fact that Ren had the opportunity to download, but it's unlikely as she wasn't crippled when she returned to Mist.
I think we should have a nice conversation with Ami and Asuma about our theories and to see if either can shed some light as to where it has gone.
By the way, it occurs to me that the situation in leaf isn't going to stay static while we're gone. Can we make any reasonable extrapolations about what's been happening, including any moves people directly opposed to the Goketsu could and would make while Hazo isn't around to interfere? This is, after all, the first time Hazo has been outside of leaf in quite a while (if I'm remembering correctly.)
Disregard if the summon network is keeping us informed while we're out.
By the way, it occurs to me that the situation in leaf isn't going to stay static while we're gone. Can we make any reasonable extrapolations about what's been happening, including any moves people directly opposed to the Goketsu could and would make while Hazo isn't around to interfere? This is, after all, the first time Hazo has been outside of leaf in quite a while (if I'm remembering correctly.)
Disregard if the summon network is keeping us informed while we're out.
I think we need to tell Naruto with Asuma. Him being told afterwards might cause social complications, because... well technically Minato could be considered to be part of his clan, and thus it could trip sensibilities regarding that. It's just hypothetical, but I think it's likely enough that we should have Naruto in the room with Asuma when we explain it.
By the way, it occurs to me that the situation in leaf isn't going to stay static while we're gone. Can we make any reasonable extrapolations about what's been happening, including any moves people directly opposed to the Goketsu could and would make while Hazo isn't around to interfere? This is, after all, the first time Hazo has been outside of leaf in quite a while (if I'm remembering correctly.)
Disregard if the summon network is keeping us informed while we're out.
And besides, the last time someone tried to screw over the Gouketsu their infamously unstable genius of a leader did their level best to cripple them. So there's probably some level of hesitance at the idea.
Expanding on this, in one of the alt-Kagome universes (specifically Kōgami Yūna's universe, featuring Firelord Madara and Surgeon General Orochimaru) the array on Nagi Island is referred to as 'the Great Seal':
Whose mastery of eldritch lore had allowed Whirlpool to locate and secure the Great Seal on Nagi Island before some ingenious fool found a way to power the array?
It could be a coincidence, but given that one name comes from Kumokogo (ancient arachnid privy to many an ancient lore) and the other comes from 'mastery of eldritch lore', there's a distinct probability that it's not a coincidence.
And we don't really have to choose one or the other. Start with a meeting just with Asuma, because OPSEC is important, and then immediately bring Naruto over (with Asuma's permission, which I think we'll get since 'what sealmaster do you look for if you're mortally wounded and the Fox is about to get loose?' is valuable for Naruto to know) to loop him in as well.
We can't fulfill all our obligations and desires in any one single meeting, but we can chain two back-to-back without offending anyone.
And we don't really have to choose one or the other. Start with a meeting just with Asuma, because OPSEC is important, and then immediately bring Naruto over (with Asuma's permission, which I think we'll get since 'what sealmaster do you look for if you're mortally wounded and the Fox is about to get loose?' is valuable for Naruto to know) to loop him in as well.
We can't fulfill all our obligations and desires in any one single meeting, but we can chain two back-to-back without offending anyone.
I'm sorry, are you saying that 'Naruto will understand us not immediately going to him when we gain insight into the work of his inscrutable father who died the day he was born, work that directly affects and is a part of his very existence and life so far'? Sincerely, please think about this. This is actually a situation where it's Asuma whose more likely to go 'yeah you made the right call', because the man had his own issues with his father and would understand that we - another boy without a father - decided Naruto had the right to be told immediately.
As someone who spent decades trying to figure their own father out to the point it caused me severe issues, please listen.
Hm. As I was reading the explanation on how the jinchuuriki seals work, and the concept of chakra constructs feeding chakra from something to something else… Didn't the QMs explain that's how Kakashi's eye worked? Did… Did Rin accidentally recreate the concepts the Fourth's jinchuuriki seal to transplant the Sharingan? Is the seal something we could use to possibly replicate that?
Hm. As I was reading the explanation on how the jinchuuriki seals work, and the concept of chakra constructs feeding chakra from something to something else… Didn't the QMs explain that's how Kakashi's eye worked? Did… Did Rin accidentally recreate the concepts the Fourth's jinchuuriki seal to transplant the Sharingan? Is the seal something we could use to possibly replicate that?
Hm. As I was reading the explanation on how the jinchuuriki seals work, and the concept of chakra constructs feeding chakra from something to something else… Didn't the QMs explain that's how Kakashi's eye worked? Did… Did Rin accidentally recreate the concepts the Fourth's jinchuuriki seal to transplant the Sharingan? Is the seal something we could use to possibly replicate that?
I'm sorry, are you saying that 'Naruto will understand us not immediately going to him when we gain insight into the work of his inscrutable father who died the day he was born, work that directly affects and is a part of his very existence and life so far'? Sincerely, please think about this. This is actually a situation where it's Asuma whose more likely to go 'yeah you made the right call', because the man had his own issues with his father and would understand that we - another boy without a father - decided Naruto had the right to be told immediately.
As someone who spent decades trying to figure their own father out to the point it caused me severe issues, please listen.
The first truth is that regardless of what Naruto wants, our obligation as a Leaf-nin is to ensure proper we follow proper OPSEC protocols. It's not our call whether or not telling Naruto this is for the good of Leaf or not: it's Asuma's. Even if Naruto really would hate us telling Asuma first, Asuma's our direct superior and Naruto's not in our chain of command, so we'd just have to eat that L.
But I personally don't think his reaction is likely to be that bad. I'm talking immediately after we inform Asuma, within the same day at the latest, or the moment Naruto gets back if he's currently off on mission. There should be no meaningful period of time where Naruto is kept in the dark about this, unless Asuma decides Naruto is not allowed to hear about it at all, in which case he is our dictator and we have no choice but to obey.
The only cause I really see for Naruto to be angry at us is "You didn't break OPSEC procedures and/or disobey the Hokage to tell me this information I care dearly about." If that winds up happening, I understand where his anger is coming from, but asking us to have done anything else would be wholly unreasonable and he'll just have to deal with it.
But again, our plan is to quickly confirm that we're allowed to tell him and then immediately go do exactly that. If Naruto is at all reasonable he'll recognize that we're doing our best to respect his stake in this.
"There are a couple dozen dead Rock Ninja in that storage seal, and of course here's Naruto. He was hard to capture, but we need total OPSEC/INFOSEC so don't tell him anything."
Couldn't stand the stuff. I read the first couple pages, told him how delightful they were and how talented he was, and then I carefully steered the conversation away from it every time it came up after that
Every seal was unique to every sealmaster. Oh, they were identical enough to be identified at a glance by anyone who already knew the pattern, but the precise details needed to be personalized to one's own chakra patterns. That was what seal research was, at base: Learning which amount and placement of feathering, pressure, and degree of curvature was required for one's chakra system to accept the blank as valid.
And that he gets very scared when his wife, with whom he shares everything, starts reading it. Because her clan's from a culture with deep sealing lore. He tries to make her stop without arousing suspicion, and gets even more scared when he hides them behind a privacy seal and she still bypasses that defence easily.
"Enemies can find the thing"? "You'll learn nothing and get falsehood if you get it wrong"? NOT PARANOID ENOUGH. IF YOU GET THIS WRONG, THE MORI SEALED HORROR GAINS POWER.
Maybe we should just tell him that no matter what is true (and Kagome's opinion IS "big if true" stuff), it's safer that the Fox thinks you're fooled. And it's safer never to angry Naruto.
Making lots of assumptions here about how much Kurama can tell Naruto, but a good point nonetheless as we can't tell. Honestly the canon bigotry makes more sense if people had some awareness of how sealing works but no idea of the specifics of bijū containment.
Pretty sure he did in fact turn on the Gōketsu over a case of foot-in-mouth that only almost killed them that one time where it was politically convenient.
There was that girl, uh, wasn't she in the hospital? Or trying to get moved to the Genin Corps? Wait, wrong fic. She had stealthy pink hair like all ninja should have. I'm colour-blind, but pink is stealthy? Right? Oh well. I'm sure it will come back. She had a name like Sabaki or something. /jk
Hazō knelt beside him and put his arms around the older man. A moment later, Akane knelt on Kagome's other side and likewise embraced him. Yuno stood uncertainly, not wanting to intrude, until Hazō smiled at her and extended an arm in offer.
Yuno's cheek twitched and she leaned very slightly backwards, probably not even realizing she was doing it. Hazō held up a hand in a silent 'no pressure' gesture and wound his other arm back around his teacher.
After a moment, Yuno knelt seiza in front of Kagome. She didn't join the hug or say anything, but she was there.
I hope Ren isn't dead but just imprisoned as a traitor in the New, Reformed, Happy, Positive Mist. That leaves us with a lot of leverage on her that we'd absolutely abuse in order to, you know, get that seal from her mind. She saw it. There's no way she didn't record it.
Concerning the "do we tell Naruto before Asuma" part, I have a few thoughts:
If he never learns about it, can't get mad
If he does, better as soon as we get cleared
Let's not fall through the trap of "is that the precise wording of the law" again. It almost got us in bad water with Orochimaru. This is a totalitarian regime and we're a part of the Inner Circle standing on thin ice. For all that we're useful, we're not super trusted. Asuma's word must. come. first.
It's technically a Leaf S-rank secret. It's also technically a clan technique, that Naruto may make a clan secret. That outside of his dying clan, only the Hokage is privy to, and Hazō too, because he unearthed it. That might be one argument to share it with Naruto that we tell Asuma.
It's useful that both the Hokage and Naruto know about it, if only because Naruto will die some day and both should prepare to re-seal Kurama.
On the other hand, there might be reasons we don't know about (or self-evident ones) to not teach sealing or anything related to their seals to jinchūriki. We need to clear that first.
If there is no such law or practice, we should ask Asuma what we're allowed to show Naruto of the entire process we're following. It might be a good idea to let him see the completed work of his late father. This is something he's extremely likely to want, and that we know he's extremely likely to want, and there's a chance the "chakra constructs" of the secret teaching seals may have some messages too. Being there while they're being first discovered is a good thing. Also, having an S-ranker around while we're studying super dangerous seals? Win-win.
Kagome waved a hand dismissively. "There's no one else in Leaf who knows how to make this seal. What's going to happen when the Fox's current shell dies? There'd be no way for anyone else to offer themselves up, and it's obvious that the Fox is still enjoying playing dolls with the humans."
Good question. Minato might have made the best seal, but he wasn't the first. Where is the Pre-Minato version? And what was Leaf's plan for Jiraiya dying?
Enma mentioned Whirlpool having jinchuriki 100-150 years ago:
"Anyway, that's the Krakens, Otters, and Porkies. The Bouncies—that's Kangaroos to you—now those guys are a hoot. I've only met their Boss once, about a hundred, hundred fifty years ago. My Summoner back then was this chick named Kinuku, lived up in Whirlpool. Her sister had one of the Abominations chained up in her gut, made her a little crazy. Well, a lot crazy. Kinuku had the patience and courage of the Sage, taking care of her like she did. I kept telling her that slurping up that thing's chakra would mess with her head and she kept telling me to mind my own beeswax...meh, neither here nor there, I guess.
I can believe that the Uzumaki clan is unique enough to be the perfect vessel without a "normal" seal.
But how did everyone else contain them? All five major nation can keep them somehow. Waterfall can and according to Kagome Demon and Bear. (Doesn't matter that he was wrong)
Did Leaf just sit on their ass for decades not making their own version? Are there multiple Bijuu containing Bloodlines?
If I am honest Leaf's sealing tradition seems pretty much crap, besides Jiraiya, Orochimaru and Minato.
It's been a thousand year's, but gramps can't just date Hazou's girlfriend. First he has to give us goodhood, so we can be like the other Pantheons. (So much incest)
I mean, we can just tell both at the same time?
Go to Naruto , The Jounin Commander, tell him you have some interesting news you feel he should know, but OPSEC come first, go together to the tower and tell Asuma, then let the Hokage decide, he'll almost surely say "Of course you can tell Naruto, he's the Jounin Commander that knows almost every secret of Leaf and is also an S-ranker".
Add a Mari-Sanity check to be sure and done.
But to be honest, i don't know what would we tell Asuma? I feel we should first finish researching it and actually see what we're dealing with, while giving Asuma a "I'm working on something possibly important, i'll keep you in the loop".
It's been a thousand year's, but gramps can't just date Hazou's girlfriend. First he has to give us goodhood, so we can be like the other Pantheons. (So much incest)
And that he gets very scared when his wife, with whom he shares everything, starts reading it. Because her clan's from a culture with deep sealing lore. He tries to make her stop without arousing suspicion, and gets even more scared when he hides them behind a privacy seal and she still bypasses that defence easily.
Nicely noticed. :> (Granted, it was never stated that he used a privacy seal, simply a storage seal.)
Someone asked a while back why Minato didn't simply keep the drafts on his person so Kushina couldn't find them. After this chapter it's hopefully cheese that he couldn't do that because he needed to be sure that the information wasn't lost with him if he died in a ditch somewhere.
Nicely noticed. :> (Granted, it was never stated that he used a privacy seal, simply a storage seal.)
Someone asked a while back why Minato didn't simply keep the drafts on his person so Kushina couldn't find them. After this chapter it's hopefully cheese that he couldn't do that because he needed to be sure that the information wasn't lost with him if he died in a ditch somewhere.
Hm. As I was reading the explanation on how the jinchuuriki seals work, and the concept of chakra constructs feeding chakra from something to something else… Didn't the QMs explain that's how Kakashi's eye worked? Did… Did Rin accidentally recreate the concepts the Fourth's jinchuuriki seal to transplant the Sharingan? Is the seal something we could use to possibly replicate that?
I think we were told that in MfD it's Tsunade who did the procedure, and she had the help of the Crow Clan who have advanced knowledge of both medicine and probably the Uchiha too
