- Location
- The state of Paranoia
Ah crap, I saw this and didn't follow up in time.
Welp, guess we're about to see what happens.
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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Welp, guess we're about to see what happens.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
WHY DID WE TELL AMI WE WOULD GIVE HER FOOM AAAAAAAA
Look guys I fucking love Ami as I say like every update she's in but she is absolutely not a friend we can trust yet. She threatened to wipe out Goketsu like a month ago in-game just for protecting Mari! Why would we hand her keys to ultimate power??? This is an Akatsuki letter-tier damocles sword
I'm praying to Jashin the source of her headaches makes it nonviable to use shadow clone without popping them/transferring the headaches to her depending on if they're physical or mental, or Mari fixes this for us or something......
Look guys I fucking love Ami as I say like every update she's in but she is absolutely not a friend we can trust yet. She threatened to wipe out Goketsu like a month ago in-game just for protecting Mari! Why would we hand her keys to ultimate power??? This is an Akatsuki letter-tier damocles sword
I'm praying to Jashin the source of her headaches makes it nonviable to use shadow clone without popping them/transferring the headaches to her depending on if they're physical or mental, or Mari fixes this for us or something......
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
To be fair: we made that promise well-before the Orochimaru Fiasco, and Ami and Kei both assured us that Ami's ultimate end goal was Uplift-aligned.
At the time, the only big disagreement was Ami using rumors of Akane's nonexistent pregnancy to go back to Mist to check on Ami. And even then, that was a miscommunication that neither Hazou-the-character not Ami handled well.
- Location
- Europe
I am not seeing the problem.
->
In an unprecedented act of political maneuvering, a Mist jōnin has nationalized herself as a Leaf citizen.
?
It's not an issue at all.
@Velorien will write 20 chapters about SC!Ami fighting Standard Ami and that will gain us a lot of Bonus XP.
Where is the issue exactly?
->
In an unprecedented act of political maneuvering, a Mist jōnin has nationalized herself as a Leaf citizen.
?
It's not an issue at all.
@Velorien will write 20 chapters about SC!Ami fighting Standard Ami and that will gain us a lot of Bonus XP.
Where is the issue exactly?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I unironically think the suggestion of getting her killed might become necessary faflec
- Location
- Yes.
Oh yes, I suppose we could do that too.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
JIRAIYA: Wow, Naruto really trusted the first foreign infiltrator he met that made doe eyes at him?
HAZOU: *laughing nervously*
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Ami-Test-Clone: [exists]
Ami-Test-Clone: "I don't like this."
Ami-Test-Clone: [dispels]
Its too late to vote, but in case resolving the tie is somehow important:
[X] Action Plan: Dragons, Dinner, and Family
Because I'd rather not make an enemy out of Ami, would rather try to be genuine friends, and purposefully witholding FOOM from her leaves a bad taste in my mouth as not helping someone because you are scared they might become too successful if you do is definitely not something a friend would do, even putting the promise aside.
Besides, FOOM is not actually that amazing for a social spec jounin, as it forces yet two more high level skills for a build that's already starved for combat stats, and exp has relatively heavy diminishing returns towards combat power once you get to jounin anyway - it becomes more about shinies then regardless. So while sharing it will increase her long-term potential somewhat, it is not going to make her an Essie outright, heck, it might even delay her becoming one. Its also important to remember that most of Ami's power invariably comes from her social clout and ability rather than personal power, so its really not such a big deal regardless, and she is not even an enemy as far as values and goals are concerned, but a potential friend.
[X] Action Plan: Dragons, Dinner, and Family
Because I'd rather not make an enemy out of Ami, would rather try to be genuine friends, and purposefully witholding FOOM from her leaves a bad taste in my mouth as not helping someone because you are scared they might become too successful if you do is definitely not something a friend would do, even putting the promise aside.
Besides, FOOM is not actually that amazing for a social spec jounin, as it forces yet two more high level skills for a build that's already starved for combat stats, and exp has relatively heavy diminishing returns towards combat power once you get to jounin anyway - it becomes more about shinies then regardless. So while sharing it will increase her long-term potential somewhat, it is not going to make her an Essie outright, heck, it might even delay her becoming one. Its also important to remember that most of Ami's power invariably comes from her social clout and ability rather than personal power, so its really not such a big deal regardless, and she is not even an enemy as far as values and goals are concerned, but a potential friend.
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- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I suppose that for the sake of strict accuracy I could have said that we all either forgot or failed to raise the point clearly enough that it became obvious what a landmine this is.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
She literally was planning to kill Mari a few weeks ago. She's the one that needs to prove that she is a friend and not an enemy
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- He/Him
It is not important to resolve ties. Generally, when there's a tie, it means the author can write whatever they want
imo there are way more important things at stake than friendship. For some people who think Ami taking over the setting is a win condition for us, it makes more sense that they wouldn't care if she FOOMs. But I do not share the confidence that her goals are that closely aligned with ours, and it's much more important that Uplift gets enacted than that we treat a person as a genuine friend. It's not just a matter of being scared they're more successful than you when the measure of success is the literal fate of the entire world. Ami thinks about the big picture like us, where it doesn't really seem like anyone else is really making globalization plays. If we have to oppose her it's easier when we're actually on her level.
FOOM is good for everyone. The startup investment always sucks for everyone but she will get SC/Resolve to where Hazou currently is much faster than Hazou did and will pass him not long after that. Any lead she already has on Hazou will grow, because she'll be ahead on grinding up her multiplier.
I do not share the opinion that Ami FOOM-ing will somehow let her take over the setting if she can't already. From a mechanical standpoint, FOOM is worse for her than it is for us, because as a social spec, she already keeps several high level skills that are of zero direct combat use - having to also keep high Resolve and SC both is absolutely crippling. Yes, her overall numbers would be higher long-term, but 3/4 of these numbers would have zero combat relevance, and she would actually suffer in both the short and the medium term for it. Further, a longer-term friendly Essie is not bad - its good, in fact, even if they don't completely align with our values, she is still Kei's sister after all. And she already has the social clout of an Essie at this very moment regardless. Even further, Ami is going to get that SC regardless, if she hasn't already, and she is going to figure out FOOM anyway. Plus she does not necessarily have the luxury of sitting in the basement all day and FOOM-ing away like we do.
People seem to treat FOOM like a road to godhood, but from a mechanical perspective its worth at best being a tier (20 points) ahead in skills of what a character without FOOM will be able to get in the same timeframe - and this is in the absolute long-term timeframe, and without the crippling weakness of having to raise both socials and resolve and SC. Heck, it also locks Resolve/SC as your capstones or nearly there, therefore the actual difference is ~10 points, and its even less for Ami. Exp has diminishing returns and it will not an Essie alone make, also. At high exp thresholds shinies are far more important than a couple more points which is what we are talking about here.
Akane one-shot Shirogane. Took him out in one round. Shirogane had a 70 capstone. Akane has a 54 capstone. The difference here, is far smaller than these 16 points. Shinies matter much more than exp does or ever will, at jounin+ anyway. And even in terms of exp, FOOM will only slightly hasten Ami's progression in the long-term, while slowing her down in the short and mid-terms. Further, no matter how powerful she becomes (even if she does become somewhat more powerful than without it over a long enough period), it is not core to her power, because her power does not lie in personal combat prowess, it lies in social ability and clout, and she seems to be mostly maxed out on those anyway and capable of achieving almost anything.
The reason why we value FOOM as much as we do is that we are a team of chuunin, and we need to quickly be jounin+ to have actual political relevance. This normally takes a long time, while FOOM lets us skip to that relatively quickly, especially when we can just sit and train it every day. Further, our builds are not split in a million different directions (except Hazou up to a point), so we can benefit from it more than Ami regardless. That's literally all there is to it, and I feel like you are far overstating how impactful a shiny FOOM is/would be to someone who is already a jounin, especially a social spec one.
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- Location
- Europe
Ami has/had access to abilities of two villages and multiple clans.
So she has all those things.
If you're talking about change, the prefix you want is trans-.
On the couple languages I speak, nationalization is the process of changing ownership of business from private to government's hands. Adding re- to that means that this was gov.'s property in the past. It seems weird to use it on a person. An individual's nationality is used as a noun, a thing to be given and taken away.
So I'd recommend either using the boring one-word-too-many usual usage, or make up a new word that has not already been claimed. I propose transpatriation.
I raised the point clearly
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- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This is actually completely wrong. We would have all hit jounin numbers if we had just focused on combat stats instead of SC. We want to FOOM because it gives us a shot at godhood.
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
What I said was "failed to raise the point clearly enough that it became obvious what a landmine this is", which I stand by, and not only on the basis that reality does not support your assertion that you raised it clearly enough that it was obvious what a landmine this was. Your use of scare quotes indicated that there was not an actual promise - which, in fact, there was. Obviously, I'm not suggesting that you're somehow at fault here, but what you said was a pretty far cry from 'hey if this plan passes and the intention of the plan is carried out, I'm pretty sure that Ami will declare us her mortal enemies and be justified in doing so', which is what the situation required.
Let me paint you a picture.
Ami puts her plots in maintenance mode for three months while she grinds resolve and SC. This puts her in a position where she can take full advantage of FOOM. She then leverages her network to learn powerful jutsu and combat techniques and get access to a few shinies. (If you don't think that Ami can social her way into shinies then I'd like to point out that she'll have done just that by joining Leaf and getting SC.)
She also told us that she reviewed the personal notes/journals of Yagura - the secrets ones he didn't let other people read. If those notes don't lead to at least one shiny I will eat a hat.
So at this point in our hypothetical, she invests some more time (another three months, perhaps?) into the shinies and combat skills she's picked up. She's now both a social and combat jonin whose rate of XP gain is still actively increasing. Six months down the line she has the personal combat capabilities necessary to take Asuma in a straight fight and give a sannin a run for their money. Her toolbox has greatly expanded - she no longer needs to pay the exchange rate for transmuting political or social power to martial power because she has all five elements, creativity, probably the rasengan, and whatever jutsu she's seduced out of Sasuke, too. She's also been grinding her socials during this time and taking advantage of the benefits of cognitively-independent Amis as well as exploiting plot avenues previously closed to her because she couldn't punch hard enough.
The utility of FOOM to Ami is that if she gets it, because of her abilities, she can very easily maneuver herself into a position where she, a jonin with jonin XP gain, can spend three months just grinding Resolve and SC and then explode past us. She doesn't need to spread her attention across multiple skills because she already has her core competencies at a level that will be sufficient for a few months. She still needs to juggle pyramids but her rate of XP gain is going up and she needs to add combat skills into her pyramid anyway. Anything that's a roadblock to our focusing on FOOM, she can ignore or overcome with her extant jonin abilities.
Maybe I'm overestimating the threat, here, but I don't think that what I've described is in any way implausible, and it paints a pretty grim picture for anyone who doesn't want Ami to have exponentially-increasing personal power.
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Nope. This is just wrong. Jounin is ~15k xp or so. Team Uplift currently has 6-8k exp depending on the character. Could we have a tier 60 skill if we didnt FOOM? Sure. Would that make us a jounin? Not by a long stretch. I believe 10k exp is the earliest you can reasonably refer to someone as a Special Jounin, which is the rank below such. Regardless, for reference Akane has no issues literally hitting for above 100 with prep with her 54 taij, because of her shinies, so really the base stats do not matter nearly as much if you have good shinies.
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- He/Him
Suggestion:
Step 1: Have Shadow Clones go past-purple, all the way to gamma rays
Step 2: Leave the HOWS running near mice, notice how they die of invisible poison
Step 3: Never tell anyone else about this discovery in case of emergency need to administer radiation overdose