Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- Italy
Ok, here an impulsive plan/speech. Could be horrible, could be good, better to post it than not post it.
[X] Action Plan: The Real Uplift.
Wordcount: 399
Sanity-Check with Mari(OPSEC,ect...)
[X] Action Plan: The Real Uplift.
Wordcount: 399
Sanity-Check with Mari(OPSEC,ect...)
- Summon Akane (Hokage Monument)
- After mission preparations.
- As Hazou of Uplift, you ask her.
- What does she see?
- You see a town of monsters, a blight on this world, better than the other villages the slightest amount.
- As if being marginally less drenched in blood is something to be proud of.
- Ninja kills and civilians accept it and everyone is content, knee-deep in blood.
- You passed through this crucible too.
- "I am unworthy of Uplift, because of my actions".
- That is arrogance. Does she think she's better than Hashirama? Tobirama? Jiraiya? Thousands of people tried to change the world.
- She now knows the essence of Uplift
- It's truth, the will to watch the abyss and without blinking.
- She's a monster, you're a monster, we're all monster. This world gives us the choice to be monsters or die proudly in vain, leaving this hell untouched.
- Uplift means accepting that, it means surviving that, keeping intact one fact.
- This world is wrong, this world must not exist. It must change, at all costs. Because even if the gods accept it, we will not.
- Uplift is swimming in our own sins and not giving up. It means realizing we're monsters and we must not be, we must Uplift ourselves and the others.
- And to do that we must survive. And to survive we must kill, because we're not special, and thinking so is an insult to the endless ones that failed, for they were not weak.
- Accept it, use this to grow stronger. Use it to remember why you fight. To remember why this hell must be stopped.
- It's a horrible choice: we cannot give up to our pain and stop growing, but we cannot even lie to ourselves to feel better, we can't even die honorably and make it stop.
- Now she finally knows how horrible the world is, and what to do next is her choice.
- But please, as simply Hazou, you just want to say:
- Please don't leave.
- You will give everything to Uplift, but not this.
- You want her, you want everything about her.
- You want look at her, see her, hear her. She's your world.
- This is your selfishness, you want her. All of her, with no exception.
- You want to learn how it is to be human with her and Ino, and without her, you don't think you can do it.
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
Good point.
Maybe something more like:
- Meeting: Shikamaru, then Asuma (with Shikamaru's approval)
- Location
- Italy
On the other hand, we really don't want another Tachibana, so it's better to try than to do nothing and let a emotionally shaken ninja on on the battlefield, just because we cannot give her answers, we can, in fact, give her support,as we did to various Uplift member for the majority of the quest.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We can and should support her. But we need to realize that this isn't a magically fixable thing.
Akane has to learn who she is. That's not something Hazō can do for her with a speech.
We can arrange circumstances to help her but inherently this is something that must come from within.
- Location
- Europe
[X] Action Plan: Seeking Wisdom
Asuma already agreed to the general idea as a Post-War thing to do:
But then the genocide idea was stopped so who knows.
The rest of the plan is just not feasible during the actual war.
We already have huge problems getting a few 7th path citizen to another country and now people want to mass migrate hundreds or thousands of people from Earth (big country with lots of nothing), through Grass (I guess) into Fire?
How do you want to do that? If you want to encourage them to migrate away you either destroy their livelihood or convince them that they can have a better life elsewhere. And Earth/Rock is a mostly functioning country or else that town wouldn't have been valuable in the first place.
As for convincing civilians, most low-class people in this setting can't read so dropping random messages is not going to be effective and most people will not just trust a piece of paper anyway. And sending ninja to "convince" them will simply get them killed, like Haru in Haru's mission.
Why would they do this? Ninja entering other countries doesn't need civilian covers? What information would they gain by "inflitrating" the migration wave? They can just trace where the people are going if they care, especially if there a physical checkpoints.
And how many Infiltrators/Diplomats do countries even have?
Here is a list of people with the skill sets we know:
So let's say 5 Jonin with the training and some chunnin. Unless Rock is run by idiots this isn't going to get more than one or two Jonin killed, while endangering Leaf ninja (we don't have that many), sensor ninja (we have even less of them) and the civilians in the first place.
Depopulating Earth isn't really helpful for us anyway, it's supposly rich in metal/minerals. Just because Asuma has a murder boner, doesn't mean we have to follow it. Maybe post-Yamanaka Shirogane can finally tell us what the hell Rock wants and why they don't want to pay for it like normal people.
This is basically just a "feel good" proposal-plan that ignores the manpower involved, the risks for the people involved, the financial costs and the timescale, civilians are slow and need protection. This could be done after the war, not during it, that's just not going to have any actual effect.
What we can do now buy the land and prepare it, but that's just weird during the war. We still haven't build up our land close to River or the grape farm for the Amori clan. But we can do it now for thousands of people, all alone Goketsu style?
Uhu, sure.
If people want to stop civilians to be targeted than we need to talk to the people in charge of the missions and propose better solutions.
Asuma already agreed to the general idea as a Post-War thing to do:
But then the genocide idea was stopped so who knows.
The rest of the plan is just not feasible during the actual war.
We already have huge problems getting a few 7th path citizen to another country and now people want to mass migrate hundreds or thousands of people from Earth (big country with lots of nothing), through Grass (I guess) into Fire?
How do you want to do that? If you want to encourage them to migrate away you either destroy their livelihood or convince them that they can have a better life elsewhere. And Earth/Rock is a mostly functioning country or else that town wouldn't have been valuable in the first place.
As for convincing civilians, most low-class people in this setting can't read so dropping random messages is not going to be effective and most people will not just trust a piece of paper anyway. And sending ninja to "convince" them will simply get them killed, like Haru in Haru's mission.
Why would they do this? Ninja entering other countries doesn't need civilian covers? What information would they gain by "inflitrating" the migration wave? They can just trace where the people are going if they care, especially if there a physical checkpoints.
And how many Infiltrators/Diplomats do countries even have?
Here is a list of people with the skill sets we know:
- Goketsu Mari (Mist) (Jonin)
- Mori Ami (Mist) (Jonin)
- Kurosawa Hana (Mist) (Jonin)
- Kurosawa Ren (Mist) (Jonin)
- Amagawa Shūji (Mist) (Chunnin)
- Gisuji Kanako (Mist) (Chunnin)
- Kurosawa Shin? (Mist) (Chunnin)
- Kurosawa Beno? (Mist) (?) (mentioned here )
- Yuhei Kurenai (Leaf) (Jonin)
- Kei Anko (Leaf) (Special Jonin)
- Kei Ruri (Leaf) (Jonin)
- Yamanaka Ino? (Leaf) (Chunnin)
- Yamanaka Inaho (Leaf) (Chunnin?)
So let's say 5 Jonin with the training and some chunnin. Unless Rock is run by idiots this isn't going to get more than one or two Jonin killed, while endangering Leaf ninja (we don't have that many), sensor ninja (we have even less of them) and the civilians in the first place.
Depopulating Earth isn't really helpful for us anyway, it's supposly rich in metal/minerals. Just because Asuma has a murder boner, doesn't mean we have to follow it. Maybe post-Yamanaka Shirogane can finally tell us what the hell Rock wants and why they don't want to pay for it like normal people.
This is basically just a "feel good" proposal-plan that ignores the manpower involved, the risks for the people involved, the financial costs and the timescale, civilians are slow and need protection. This could be done after the war, not during it, that's just not going to have any actual effect.
What we can do now buy the land and prepare it, but that's just weird during the war. We still haven't build up our land close to River or the grape farm for the Amori clan. But we can do it now for thousands of people, all alone Goketsu style?
Uhu, sure.
If people want to stop civilians to be targeted than we need to talk to the people in charge of the missions and propose better solutions.
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- Location
- The state of Paranoia
This isn't trying to magically fix her. This is the equivalent of doing a field repair just long enough to get the car to an actual mechanic. The goal isn't to perfectly get her back to normal, it's to get her moving and change her mindset to the point where she'll actually be able to survive her next mission.
If we can manage that, then she'll hopefully have the time to fix herself.
We're throwing everything and the kitchen sink at this. Will it be enough? Who knows, but we have to give it a shot if we want Akane to survive long enough to get better.
Plus it forces us to do a lot of very fun and active stuff like land clearing and uplift, which will keep the QMs interested and too busy to throw more kaijus our way, giving us a higher chance to do stuff like the scroll hunt without getting interrupted.
We're already destroying their livelihoods, so that's step one. The next step will be spreading word that there's more food and a better life in Leaf, along with which way to go. Lower taxes aren't strictly necessary for this, but will certainly help a lot.
Most people can't read, but we saw in the chapter we got back from the chunin exams that enough of them can read that they have informal newspapers. The ones who can read tell everyone else what the message says. And spreading rumors in person without people realizing you're a ninja/foreigner is something any infiltration specialist can do. We even trained to do it ourselves in the fourth event. We already probably have infiltration specialists in Rock towns to look for enemy ninja, all they need to do is start a rumor as they pass through a town or right before they leave. That way there isn't even much risk of discovery, as they'll be long gone by the time Rock ninja hear the rumor.
Getting one or two jonin killed is huge. Rock doesn't have very many of them either, and each one is worth their weight in explosive tags. Akane and Yuno killing 2 already is a big deal, and getting a few more should make Rock start questioning if this war is really worth it.
If depopulating Rock wasn't good for us Akane wouldn't have had to burn a town. She could have simply set fire to the granaries and woken up all the civilians so they could flee. Heck, she could have woken them up before setting fire to the food, it's not like they could stop her. Depopulating other countries is explicitly part of ninja warfare. This just does it in a more ethical way.
If you want to propose a plan that builds up the Amori grape farm or our mine, I'd gladly vote for it. But so far there hasn't been enough traction do any of that. Part of the beauty of this plan is that it actually does things, instead of just planning to do them.
That's what we're doing in this plan. We're talking to Asuma (the person in charge) and proposing a better solution. One that will bring in more food for Leaf and more money for the Tower -both things that aid greatly in war- all while depopulating Rock and killing Rock ninja.
- Location
- Yes.
What's stopping Iwa-nin from doing conventional terror tactics like attacking the immigration checkpoints, slaughtering "traitors" and Leaf-nin alike? I doubt Asuma would be willing to sign off on a large ninja protection force for said checkpoints.
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
Then we'll know they're coming, and be able to prepare the ground to have an advantage in the fights. Or just withdraw our ninja if they send too many. They'll still be killing off their own civilians, doing our work for us.
The idea isn't that we'll have ninja openly walking around, we'll have them hidden so that infiltrators won't know where to sneak past. This also means that combat troops will have a harder time finding our ninja, giving us the advantage.
- Location
- Yes.
Then all the Iwa-nin have to do is send over some suicide bomber Elemental Clones (or sneak explosive seals on a long timer into a civilian's things) and their ninja are safe from harm while slaughtering civilians and border inspection alike.
What do you see the checkpoints as doing, officially? Are they literally just chokepoints that civilians have to funnel through, but with nobody on Leaf's side to actually do anything? Are there civilians or to record people passing? I have been working under the assumption that there are actual Leaf citizens (civilians or ninja) doing work here.
Related note: I have been under the impression that we want to preserve civilian life here, and that is the purpose of this plan. Am I wrong?
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
At work until late tonight. Haven't read through the thread, but I'll respond to feedback regarding my action plan once I'm back to my apartment.
If anyone has a sufficiently reasonable action plan that seems like it may help Akane, it'll likely get my vote (provided there isn't anything too cruel/unreasonable elsewhere in that plan).
Let's help Akane.
If anyone has a sufficiently reasonable action plan that seems like it may help Akane, it'll likely get my vote (provided there isn't anything too cruel/unreasonable elsewhere in that plan).
Let's help Akane.
- Location
- Yes.
[Χ] Brainwash Akane so she stops being sad
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
I see the checkpoints officially as places where a Leaf civilian takes notes of who is coming in, for census purposes. Unofficially, it's a choke point that civilians must pass through, allowing us to pick out which of them are infiltrators.
Unofficially unofficially, the real choke point isn't the checkpoints. Those are just the places that infiltrators will assume they have to bypass, lowering their guard when they reach the real choke point: the safe roads through wilderness that civilians will be traveling along to get from the checkpoints to the towns.
So most of the people who would be killed by a terror attack would be Rock civilians anyway, meaning Rock would be devoting resources to killing their own civilians. A scorch squad that kills one Leaf civilian and lots of Rock ones is better than a scorch squad that kills lots of Leaf civilians. We're trying to preserve civilian lives here, but you can't save everyone. This saves more than would be saved otherwise.
If you have a better way to save civilian lives, or ways to make this plan work better, I'd love to hear them. (Not being sarcastic, I honestly would love any way to make the plan better).
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah but your field repair is actively making the problem worse in my opinion. We have time now to actually work on fixing the problem. Fundamentally Akane needs to figure out what she believes. How does she justify the nature of being a ninja. We need to respect her agency as much as possible so we can't force her to change. We need to get multiple people to ask her what she believes.
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
The intention here isn't to force her to believe anything, it's to give her a bunch of different things she can believe and letting her pick whichever combination works for her. That's the long term, the short term is giving her something solid and tangible to do to remind herself that she isn't the root of all evil. It's like what Tsunade was doing when she made Mari wash floors, she's not just being told that she can still help people, she's proving it to herself.
Do you have any suggestions for making it more clear that we aren't trying to force her to believe anything but rather are trying to give her more options and examples of what to believe?
I personally don't think we need people to ask her what she believes, I assume she's doing plenty of that on her own. If you think that it would help though, we could have that as part of the plan?
Like testing and working on air-tunneling? I can have something up.
Would you be cool with having Hazou and Kagome getting Akane up to speed with an overview on the rift data we collected for plan Necromancy + the chakrascopes? Might be a fun scene to see her and Kagome ask if we plan on raising the dead.
- Location
- Yes.
Target the infrastructure in place to transport supplies to Iwa? Like a modification of the dehydrate-Earth-Country plan.
A question to the hivemind. Why haven't we spoken to the gentlemen below in the following quote.
This took place in late August IC. As you can see, he is awesomely cool. Might be good to work on getting insights on ES from him along with the blacksmith we acquired. Might also be good if he understands how Rock-nin ninjutsu operate.
This took place in late August IC. As you can see, he is awesomely cool. Might be good to work on getting insights on ES from him along with the blacksmith we acquired. Might also be good if he understands how Rock-nin ninjutsu operate.
Why is there no sanity check?
Also, Asuma doesn't want to hear every little idea that Hazo has. That's what Shikamaru is for. If Shikamaru approves, it will go to Asuma.
- Location
- USA
[X] Action Plan: Seeking Wisdom from Kagome too
Word count: 293
Word count: 293
- Sanity check with Mari (offscreen):
- Will telling Cannai about Akane's mission damage our relationship with him?
- Can we ask Asuma to take Akane off the mission roster for a few days? How can we optimize the request?
- If so, do it, but only after checking with Akane.
- General sanity check.
- Cannai:
- We'd like advice.
- Explain the situation with Akane's latest mission.
- Answer questions honestly. Give context where needed.
- We can't betray our pack or find another.
- One day, we will be powerful enough to stop these atrocities from happening.
- But we aren't now. How do we help Akane? How do we make those impossible choices?
- Our death solves nothing, but our life isn't worth much if we're just a tool.
- Kagome:
- Sensei, remember when we were discussing joining Leaf and you warned they might make us do awful things?
- Explain Akane's situation after the mission.
- We don't know what to do. Maybe you could go and talk to her?
- Gaku:
- We need stone samples.
- Provide reasons and specifications. Describe the Great Seal's stone and the surrounding area.
- Please reach out to merchants, geologists, anyone you think could help.
- Please collate as much geometry and geology knowledge as reasonable without seriously denting the budget. Have summaries written.
- Does Tsunade run an aid organization? If so, where does she get clerks? Would she like more?
- Could we encourage (subsidize/enhance wages?) excellent GED graduates to work for her, or increase GED output and direct them to her?
- Offscreen:
- Continue work on Air Tunnel Seal.
- Ask Kei to speak to Pangolin engineers/masons - have they seen similar material? Samples of 7th path stone?
- Check with Kumokugo about Skyslicer teams.
- Report skyslicers are vulnerable to dragonfire.
- Ask about Arachnid Skyslicer training progress.
- End plan before Akane leaves.
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- Location
- Europe
And what kind timeframe are you thinking here? Because spreading rumors takes a while (and they get distorted anyway), and most people aren't just going to leave their homes because of some rumors about good living in a foreign country they have only heard bad things about their whole lives. Even if their homes are destroyed, they are plenty of other places to go to first.
Civilians also have to travel slowly and carefuly. This isn't going to cause some economic collapse immediately.
That's why I was talking about "convincing", at least that might get large groups of people going, but just rumors? It's definitely not going to be a "mass" migration.
But if we want just to cause some chaos? Sure that would probably work, espacially if our facless infiltrators run around anyway.
That's just one of the better scenarios, for all we now Rock just sends a properly prepared kill squad and we loose a bunch of people, including the special jonin/jonin we commited.
Those checkpoints searching for "infiltrators" just seems totally useless. Again, why would they hide among the civilians? Rock knows we have a bunch of sensors, that's why they targeted multiple Leaf clans during the Collapse in the first place.
We could also just think ahead and not try to destroy another country?
There should be other people besides Asuma, but appearently everyone else important is dead.
First we have to settle the immigrants, help them build up, clear the land, hope they don't get murdered and then maybe we get some food and money.
That's not going to aid the war unless this one takes another few years, which is why I said that this whole idea is a Post-War thing.
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
That sounds like a good idea. Cutting off transportation routes between towns and Rock itself would starve Rock more, incentivize town civilians to move to Leaf's towns (they'll be able to more easily sell their produce, buy other goods, and commission Chakra Beast killing missions as well as Till 'n Fills).
Actually, Till 'n Fills are an excellent selling point by themselves. No other country has them, and if we spread word of them being a thing in Leaf we can sell Leaf as a sort of promised land. Like America used to sell itself as, you leave your poverty-stricken, war-torn homeland and find a new home in this fantastic land of wealth and opportunity. Just like people immigrating to Leaf it wasn't all sunshine and roses, but the perception of America being better drove tons of people to migrate. It will do the same for migrants from Rock. People will go through a LOT of hardship and danger to get to a place they perceive as being better for them and their families. If irl is any indication this approach could even get people to continue immigrating once Rock starts terrorist attacks. Especially because just like in America, life in Leaf will legitimately be better for many of them (more food, etc).
If we get lucky it may even force Rock to start offering Till n Fills and trying to make life better for their civilians, in order to convince people to stay and even bring over some Leaf civilians. From there it becomes a race to the top as well as the already existing race to the bottom. Which is better than things are right now.
@RandomOTP Here's a plan section I think should be added to the Asuma convo:
- Ways to encourage immigration:
- Cut off transportation routes between towns and Rock.
- More heavily target other infrastructure, leave civilians alive to increase strain on the system
- Rumors: Sell Leaf as a promised land
- Till 'n Fills
- More food, fertile soil
- Lower taxes (if approved)
- Safety (MEW walls)
- Better access to chakra beast extermination
Maybe also add to the start of the Akane section:
- Explain situation to Kagome and Cannai, ask for help/advice
I made a suggestion about sanity checking with Shikamaru first. RandomOTP hasn't been around to modify the plan yet, but they said they'd be able to later.
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