Yeah, they'll probably need that bonus we're giving them. I'm guessing that Mari isn't paying them anywhere near as much as they probably deserve, considering what they're contributing to Leaf. She thought they'd just be flying kites the whole time.

That's determined by Gaku, and Hazo already gave them bonus multiple times.

That said, how much money they get isn't nealry as important as the supportive environment that Hazo fostered, especially since Hazo is paying them to do research to explore concepts that may not pan out.
 
"the chunin tournament" is completely unrelated to Kabuto telling Oro we were going to destroy the Basement. Except in the sense that many things happened around then. Oro returned the day after he was pardoned in Leaf. That was probably related. I stand by my original assertation that the youthanizer and Orochimaru returning are completely unrelated.

If we had intended to destroy the Basement, we could have figured something out other than youthanizers. They weren't necessary.


This calculation is wrong.

Storage limits of macerators are 100 kg or 1 m^3 of storage, whichever is less.

If you take that into account, the theoretical energy released is 3280 MJ, 820 kg of TNT-equivalent

There's also efficiency losses from uncombusted charcoal, we'd be very lucky to get 90% in field conditions. So let's be very generous and call it 750 kg-equivalent of TNT, about 4% of your estimate. The burning (deflagration) reaction is vastly slower than a true high explosive so it won't be nearly as destructive to buildings and such as TNT.

It's not bad though.

Oh no. We are *only* throwing around slips of paper containing ~800kg of boom. I'll get right to work on improving that.
 
Although it does mean people can travel in a more leisurely manner. without needing skywalkers or skysliders at all. It seems that it would be useful for civilian travel, although that doesn't take into sky squids and other chakra beasts.
This would actually be huge for civilians. Civilians traveling at an altitude of 1000 feet or so could hang above any ranged attack from a chakra beast while staying below sky squid attack range. I'm sure the occasional balloon would still be assailed by evil birds or enemy ninja but it would make travel much safer for them and the transport of goods much easier. It would also allow villages to keep watch for chakra beasts much better.

There is a downside here though: these balloons could fill the same role as a Skytower and the tech will 100% be leaked, so we would lose that military advantage. OTOH, by the time we finish the balloons Hazou should hopefully have created a fuck ton more advantages through innovative sealing
 
This would actually be huge for civilians. Civilians traveling at an altitude of 1000 feet or so could hang above any ranged attack from a chakra beast while staying below sky squid attack range. I'm sure the occasional balloon would still be assailed by evil birds or enemy ninja but it would make travel much safer for them and the transport of goods much easier. It would also allow villages to keep watch for chakra beasts much better.

There is a downside here though: these balloons could fill the same role as a Skytower and the tech will 100% be leaked, so we would lose that military advantage. OTOH, by the time we finish the balloons Hazou should hopefully have created a fuck ton more advantages through innovative sealing
Reminder that we already have all the pieces for a superhuman 3D maneuvering system wieldable by civilians...
 
This would actually be huge for civilians. Civilians traveling at an altitude of 1000 feet or so could hang above any ranged attack from a chakra beast while staying below sky squid attack range. I'm sure the occasional balloon would still be assailed by evil birds or enemy ninja but it would make travel much safer for them and the transport of goods much easier. It would also allow villages to keep watch for chakra beasts much better.

There is a downside here though: these balloons could fill the same role as a Skytower and the tech will 100% be leaked, so we would lose that military advantage. OTOH, by the time we finish the balloons Hazou should hopefully have created a fuck ton more advantages through innovative sealing

Skytowers are more durable than a blimp.

Moreover, blimps requires large logistical investment than we are capable of at this time. Since it requires lot of canvas and aeronautical engineering expertise. So it will not be a simple project at all.

On the other hand, other powers may not be able to match Leaf due to the logistical and industrial requirement.
 
Skytowers are more durable than a blimp.

Moreover, blimps requires large logistical investment than we are capable of at this time. Since it requires lot of canvas and aeronautical engineering expertise. So it will not be a simple project at all.

On the other hand, other powers may not be able to match Leaf due to the logistical and industrial requirement.
Meh, Chinese lanterns way predate this technological period, so they have the raw knowledge. After that it's just a matter of making them large enough and the square-cube law works in our favor there. That's to say something is having available docking stations miles in the sky. Leaf has plenty of lumbar and labor for zeppelin construction and ample need for rapid reliable ranged information couriers.
 
Meh, Chinese lanterns way predate this technological period, so they have the raw knowledge. After that it's just a matter of making them large enough and the square-cube law works in our favor there. That's to say something is having available docking stations miles in the sky. Leaf has plenty of lumbar and labor for zeppelin construction and ample need for rapid reliable ranged information couriers.

Raw knowledge of a concept is very different from engineering a zeppelin that works to an acceptable degree.
 
Engineering corp for what? What could civilians improve for ninja that would be useful in warfare? The only reason skyslider works because of the potential syngergy with skywalkers.
This is your answer. Hot-air balloons for synergy with skytowers.

The whole idea of civilians doing basic science or engineering research with no idea if they will find or accomplish anything useful needs a little refinement though.
Yes, I agree that simply funding a general-purpose civilian engineering team would be a pointless waste of money. What I am proposing is different -- a civilian team specifically formed to develop manned flight using the buoyancy of hot air. It's not a waste of money because the proof of concept is there, and this new team would have a specific direction to focus on.

This isn't new. Hazo had the idea for 'skywagon' a little while ago, but the benefits seem a bit dubious? Although it does mean people can travel in a more leisurely manner. without needing skywalkers or skysliders at all. It seems that it would be useful for civilian travel, although that doesn't take into sky squids and other chakra beasts.

Anyway, we don't have the resources or expertise to devote effort to it. The skyslider team just got finished with a model and now they may be asked to produce skysliders.
The skywagons were airships powered by seals. Hot-air balloons are much simpler and can be built now before working up to an airship.

We absolutely do have the resources to make this happen. The Goketsu have enough money to fund a second civilian research team, and there's a decent chance that Asuma will help fund it or even fund it himself since the team would be a Tower-related military technology like the skysliders. We can't split the skyslider team's focus, but we can pull one member off of the skyslider team to have them teach the habits and mindset the skyslider team has developed.

This would actually be huge for civilians. Civilians traveling at an altitude of 1000 feet or so could hang above any ranged attack from a chakra beast while staying below sky squid attack range. I'm sure the occasional balloon would still be assailed by evil birds or enemy ninja but it would make travel much safer for them and the transport of goods much easier. It would also allow villages to keep watch for chakra beasts much better.

There is a downside here though: these balloons could fill the same role as a Skytower and the tech will 100% be leaked, so we would lose that military advantage. OTOH, by the time we finish the balloons Hazou should hopefully have created a fuck ton more advantages through innovative sealing
Even if the hot-air balloons somewhat overlap with skytowers, their main draw imo is that they can be used by civilians. All across Leaf, we can have trained civilians use balloons to keep watch over the area and pass signals and messages faster than any other country. We can also create far more detailed maps than any other country, which should give us another edge in the war. Balloons are also a seal-free method of climbing into the air, which reduces the cost of skywalkers to achieve the same effect.

They'll probably get copied eventually, but adopting the technology first gives us an advantage we can use.

Blimps are harder to make, but we'll get there after we create good hot-air balloons. Which is why it's important that we start researching balloons now so we can build up to airships later.

Reminder that we already have all the pieces for a superhuman 3D maneuvering system wieldable by civilians...
What is that?
 
Yes, I agree that simply funding a general-purpose civilian engineering team would be a pointless waste of money. What I am proposing is different -- a civilian team specifically formed to develop manned flight using the buoyancy of hot air. It's not a waste of money because the proof of concept is there, and this new team would have a specific direction to focus on.
This is your answer. Hot-air balloons for synergy with skytowers.


Yes, I agree that simply funding a general-purpose civilian engineering team would be a pointless waste of money. What I am proposing is different -- a civilian team specifically formed to develop manned flight using the buoyancy of hot air. It's not a waste of money because the proof of concept is there, and this new team would have a specific direction to focus on.


The skywagons were airships powered by seals. Hot-air balloons are much simpler and can be built now before working up to an airship.

We absolutely do have the resources to make this happen. The Goketsu have enough money to fund a second civilian research team, and there's a decent chance that Asuma will help fund it or even fund it himself since the team would be a Tower-related military technology like the skysliders. We can't split the skyslider team's focus, but we can pull one member off of the skyslider team to have them teach the habits and mindset the skyslider team has developed.


Even if the hot-air balloons somewhat overlap with skytowers, their main draw imo is that they can be used by civilians. All across Leaf, we can have trained civilians use balloons to keep watch over the area and pass signals and messages faster than any other country. We can also create far more detailed maps than any other country, which should give us another edge in the war. Balloons are also a seal-free method of climbing into the air, which reduces the cost of skywalkers to achieve the same effect.

They'll probably get copied eventually, but adopting the technology first gives us an advantage we can use.

Blimps are harder to make, but we'll get there after we create good hot-air balloons. Which is why it's important that we start researching balloons now so we can build up to airships later.

I swear to God, if the civilian in charge isn't named Kelly Johnson I will start a fucking riot.



*Sigh* @faflec : could I lean on you one more time to pull up one of the dozens of posts describing the concept? I am so tired.
 
I swear to God, if the civilian in charge isn't named Kelly Johnson I will start a fucking riot.

*Sigh* @faflec : could I lean on you one more time to pull up one of the dozens of posts describing the concept? I am so tired.
Why not just state the name of the concept? I can search it up myself, you don't need to bother faflec about it.
 
Why not just state the name of the concept? I can search it up myself, you don't need to bother faflec about it.
The vibration seals are multiple horsepower motors. We have system to activate and deactivate them at optimal times. Tuning forks are a thing. We literally could have people running around the sky at hundreds of KPH tomorrow if somebody would bother to fucking listen to me.
 
I think it is plausible that with a similar combination of questions, inferences, and connections, Hazou could conceive of the concepts behind a hot air balloon.
I am about to make your whole day.

The fire popped again, shooting more sparks into the sky along with several flakes of grey ash. Hazō's eyes automatically tracked them, a smile spreading across his face as the sight reminded him of his long-ago leap to the Mizukage's tower. The heat from Amatetsu's Thousand Yams Furnace had buoyed him up, letting him make the crossing from the ledge to the Tower that had seemed so impossible at the time, yet proven simple in the end. If only border crossings were as ea—

He sat bolt upright, mouth agape, as the answer appeared full-blown in his mind.
Out of character, I didn't deal with the zeppelins in this update because I was tired and short on time. In character, I'm going to justify this with "Hazō decided that the idea was so important that he wanted to do a separate presentation on it, after he had already had a few successes on other things to show to the team."
 
The vibration seals are multiple horsepower motors. We have system to activate and deactivate them at optimal times. Tuning forks are a thing. We literally could have people running around the sky at hundreds of KPH tomorrow if somebody would bother to fucking listen to me.
I'm sceptical, but I'll take a look.

Heh. I have some ideas about using those stupidly powerful vibration seals off-balance to swing around huge lengths of stupidly strong and thin wire at stupidly high velocities as a mookwhacker, but in practice the best countermeasure probably remains just the standard "hurl huge amounts of boom at it until it stops."
I can't picture how this would work given what you've written. Attach a vibration seal to a spinny bit on a pole and it'll spin the spinny bit?

Perhaps if the chakdar or skywalker chakra adhesion detection element could be incorporated into something else. Networks of oodles of cheap balloons filled with hydrogen or methane which explode if anybody using a skywalker gets near them for instance.
Hazou doesn't have the knowledge to know or discover what hydrogen or methane is. Why would you suggest a weapon that uses materials that we do not have? People would ignore this suggestion because its not feasible to build with our current technology, and you haven't suggested how to get the required technology.

Actually, we could use carbothermic reduction of bone and following reaction with water to replace much of the balloon volume with phosphine and still have a lifting gas which is not only extremely toxic, but explosively pyrophoric the moment the balloon's membrane is breached and it gets exposed to air.
How exactly is Hazou supposed to know what phosphine is or how to make it? I'm not even sure he's allowed to know what lifting gas is. Again, you need to suggest how to get Hazou to make this stuff, because people aren't going to be interested in impossible things.

Two balloons held together by ninja wire and spinning under the power of offset vibration seals to serve as mounts for force wall seals.

Boom, instant arbitrarily locatable giant razor-sharp wall of invisible doom. Fill them with notorious pyrophoric toxin, wrap them in ninja wire to ensure the energy is converted into a cutting force to massively expand the kill radius, and add chakdar or even just Kagome's already existing proximity-activate implosive seal to kill anybody who accidentally avoids the razor-sharp wall of spinning invisible death. In fact, the implosion seals would be perfect. They suck people in while concentrating atmospheric oxidizer to enhance the following explosion of warcrime chemical weapon.
Can we actually spin a forcewall like this? I don't know enough about the seals involved to know if this is plausible.

I am about to make your whole day.
What the fuck. We could have been researching hot-air balloons since Chapter 99? Why didn't we do this earlier?! Oh god we could've had airships by now.
 
Can we actually spin a forcewall like this? I don't know enough about the seals involved to know if this is plausible.
A forcewall can rotate, translate, and vibrate so long as its component seals are attached to a sufficiently rigid frame. If the frame flexes too much then the seals will fail and the wall will disappear.

It is a separate question as to whether it's practical to use the specific method that @Lailoken is advocating. That would require investigation.
 
I'm sceptical, but I'll take a look.


I can't picture how this would work given what you've written. Attach a vibration seal to a spinny bit on a pole and it'll spin the spinny bit?


Hazou doesn't have the knowledge to know or discover what hydrogen or methane is. Why would you suggest a weapon that uses materials that we do not have? People would ignore this suggestion because its not feasible to build with our current technology, and you haven't suggested how to get the required technology.


How exactly is Hazou supposed to know what phosphine is or how to make it? I'm not even sure he's allowed to know what lifting gas is. Again, you need to suggest how to get Hazou to make this stuff, because people aren't going to be interested in impossible things.


Can we actually spin a forcewall like this? I don't know enough about the seals involved to know if this is plausible.


What the fuck. We could have been researching hot-air balloons since Chapter 99? Why didn't we do this earlier?! Oh god we could've had airships by now.

Welcome to my world. Sucks when people don't listen to you, don't it?
 
Welcome to my world. Sucks when people don't listen to you, don't it?
It's been less than an hour since you acknowledged a warning on this subject.

That you feel people don't listen to you has been well-established. You have ignored constructive responses to this complaint. Reiterating it accomplishes nothing but frustrating other players and the QMs.

Consider this to be your second warning. If you do not moderate your behaviour voluntarily, we will be forced to do it for you.
 
It's been less than an hour since you acknowledged a warning on this subject.

That you feel people don't listen to you has been well-established. You have ignored constructive responses to this complaint. Reiterating it accomplishes nothing but frustrating other players and the QMs.

Consider this to be your second warning. If you do not moderate your behaviour voluntarily, we will be forced to do it for you.
Fine. I'm hard cutting off access to the site for at least 48 hours. If it's worth anything an addictive personality stuck onto your work hard enough to need effort to remove. Since i respect your opinion and wisdom, I'll make the effort.
 
Welcome to my world. Sucks when people don't listen to you, don't it?
If people don't listen to me, that just means that I failed to be sufficiently persuasive.

It sucks yeah, but not enough to make me pointlessly damage my reputation and lower my chances of persuading others in the future.

Venting your frustrations about people not listening to you is only further damaging the odds of people listening to you. I'm not particularly sympathetic to your plight because it seems you value expressing your emotions on the thread over getting people to work with you. I've seen your posts -- I know you can be civil. If control your emotions you could get so much more done.

Also please listen to me and answer my question, since you just brought up people not listening.
I can't picture how this would work given what you've written. Attach a vibration seal to a spinny bit on a pole and it'll spin the spinny bit?
What does this look like?

Edit: I hope I didn't just miss him.
 
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