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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Personally, I'm not interested in dealing with "optimize time taken" mechanics, but if that's a place you really want to go, then I'll talk to the other GMs about it. If we're going to do it, though, then you'll start off by losing your "sure, you're just as fast as a guy who's been practicing for decades" handwave, meaning that Hazou's output will probably be 1/3 to 1/4 of Kagome's as a starting point.

My initial suggestion to the other GMs will then be: during any training cycle they can do at most one of researching, leveling Sealing, or improving speed. Both leveling and speeding cost XP, and each new level will require more speed research to maintain the same speed.

Is this something you really want to get into?
 
eaglejarl said:
Both leveling and speeding cost XP,
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As separate costs? That seems a wee bit harsh. Other than that, being a to increase the rate of our output is nothing to sneeze at.

It's a question of whether we want a constant speed or a way to accelerate at the cost of the production rate we already have.

If we have to use XP just to learn how to get faster though, that's a deal breaker. We would have to choose between increasing the scope of our abilities, researching new applications, or improving our Sealing speed.

Compare this to Noburi and his medical jutsu, and it feels like Sealing is getting nerfed into oblivion (numbers and other specifics nonewithstanding).
 
Dictator4Hire said:
As separate costs?
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Yes. If we're going to do this (which I'd rather not), then we'll do it realistically. Again, this is my initial anchor--the other GMs might have better ideas. To my mind, though, spending XP represents investing significant amounts of time practicing. You can either spend your practice time learning new elements, or you can spend it getting faster / cleaner / etc at what you already know. I say this while sitting here with my harp in my lap as I try to get one particular measure of this song to come out smoothly. I am notably NOT making progress on learning new measures while I do this.
 
*Considers an idea that would let us turn a radius around a vector into a blender using only seals we already have.*

Hmmm... it might not have been enough to take out the Tapir-wave with a single shot, but...

Vortex Shuriken
Basic idea is to take a windmill shuriken, and attach four of Kagome's barrier seals to the outer areas of the blades. I can think of two configurations to this. The first would be to just have the barriers extend down from the blades and throw it over the enemy's head. The rotating walls would easily slice through anything in the region, and if someone were smacked with the flat of a wall... well, assuming we have the shuriken spinning quickly, that's still going to be a pretty hard hit*. The second configuration is to somehow align the walls to be parallel to the blades. Still working on the how for this, but it would function as an invisible, absurdly sharp extension to the shuriken.

*This is speculation, but I suspect that force imparted on the force walls is not transfered to the seals projecting it. I don't recall any reports of the impacts to the force walls sheering off bits of the surface they're anchored to, at the least. If this is the case, then the force wall would effectively be an immovable object... and if said object is anchored to a high-velocity reference, I wouldn't advise trying to stop it.
 
...

Forcesaber
It's a sword hilt with a force wall instead of a blade... how much more do I need to explain?

Edit:
eaglejarl said:
That is an extremely cool idea. It won't work as written because the barriers are immobile with respect to the center of the earth and the seals need to be 4m apart. Still, you could always research new versions.
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Ah, missed the 'immobile with respect to the center of the earth' part. Hmmm... .

Hey, if we exert enough force to effect the planet's orbit on a force wall, will that force transfer?
 
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Logos said:
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Forcesaber
It's a sword hilt with a force wall instead of a blade... how much more do I need to explain?

Edit:

Ah, missed the 'immobile with respect to the center of the earth' part. Hmmm... .

Hey, if we exert enough force to effect the planet's orbit on a force wall, will that force transfer?
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A covers the surface the seal is on + small (mm or so) extension mobile force plane has all kinds of applications. Using the surface as the reference is much simpler than a new one for each shape.
 
Planetary Referenced Immovable rods, we only need to figure out how to curl the walls as to not have an edge, then it is hello orbital platform, or floating castle. Once we figure out a seal that converts natural energy into Seal Usable Chakra to feed into the seals used to support the platform as the high cost of running seals at full power all the time would not be feasible.
 
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Hmmm... alright, more abuse of the force walls, then, which isn't reliant on mobile reference frames.

Explosive Concentration Chamber
This project is more infrastructural than a seal or seal construct for direct use, but it should allow us to produce explosive seals of extreme power given enough time. It is reliant on two assumptions: that force walls can intersect*, and that storage seals are not blocked by the force walls.

Using six force walls, we create a cube, and store within that cube a number of seals. Let's say one-hundred explosive tags, for now. After activating the last wall and thereby sealing the cube, we activate the seals within the cube. The explosion will be confined within the cube, and we can seal away the high-pressure air within at our leisure. Now, let's say we have one-hundred of the resulting seals, and put them in the chamber... .

Eventually, we might start seeing liquid or even solid air from the pressure, but it should remain individual items letting us continue to seal them, though once it hits the solid stage we may run into problems from attempts to unseal something without enough space for it. Heat would increase rapidly as well, though, as the concentration process continued... not sure when we'd hit that stage of things, but I suspect that long before we do we'll have an explosive best used from within a bunker made of force walls.

Edit: Note: Konan's attack on Tobi was... either six or six-hundred billion explosive notes, not sure which. Roughly in the range of five concentrations as suggested. Of course, we'll be needing a faster way to make explosive notes before getting anywhere near that much is viable.

Edit2:
*: I'm pretty sure a rectangular prism can be constructed without any intersections with the force walls. It requires ridiculous precision, though, and the failure mode is likely to be spectacular. Might be safer to develop a force cube seal.
 
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Logos said:
Hmmm... alright, more abuse of the force walls, then, which isn't reliant on mobile reference frames.

Explosive Concentration Chamber
This project is more infrastructural than a seal or seal construct for direct use, but it should allow us to produce explosive seals of extreme power given enough time. It is reliant on two assumptions: that force walls can intersect, and that storage seals are not blocked by the force walls.

Using six force walls, we create a cube, and store within that cube a number of seals. Let's say one-hundred explosive tags, for now. After activating the last wall and thereby sealing the cube, we activate the seals within the cube. The explosion will be confined within the cube, and we can seal away the high-pressure air within at our leisure. Now, let's say we have one-hundred of the resulting seals, and put them in the chamber... .

Eventually, we might start seeing liquid or even solid air from the pressure, but it should remain individual items letting us continue to seal them, though once it hits the solid stage we may run into problems from attempts to unseal something without enough space for it. Heat would increase rapidly as well, though, as the concentration process continued... not sure when we'd hit that stage of things, but I suspect that long before we do we'll have an explosive best used from within a bunker made of force walls.
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Would the force wall cube go into the storage seal? There's a rule that seals can't be put into storage.

I don't think it's been updated in awhile, but the last time I checked, there was plenty of compiled information about what seals can and can't do in the player knowledge doc (which I've put in my signature for easy access).

If you notice anything missing, could you update the doc for me? I'd do it myself, but it's nearly impossible on mobile and I don't want to screw up anything there by accident.
 
Dictator4Hire said:
Would the force wall cube go into the storage seal?
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Nope. We've shown pretty handily that we can seal air without a container, so if you set a seal up to seal air in an area, it shouldn't randomly drag other things in.

Hmmm... actually, that solves the earlier proposal for storing air pretty handily as well, assuming the assumption about force walls being storage seal permeable holds. Set off an implosion seal in one of those cubes with a substantially higher radius as... watch as the onrushing air destroys the seals projecting the force walls.

... nevermind, problem not solved.

nevereatcars said:
Can Force Walls intersect or cross? Like an X?
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One of the assumptions needed for the design. I don't know if they can or not, but if they can and the walls are storage-seal permeable, it should work.
 
Logos said:
Hmmm... alright, more abuse of the force walls, then, which isn't reliant on mobile reference frames.

Explosive Concentration Chamber
This project is more infrastructural than a seal or seal construct for direct use, but it should allow us to produce explosive seals of extreme power given enough time. It is reliant on two assumptions: that force walls can intersect, and that storage seals are not blocked by the force walls.

Using six force walls, we create a cube, and store within that cube a number of seals. Let's say one-hundred explosive tags, for now. After activating the last wall and thereby sealing the cube, we activate the seals within the cube. The explosion will be confined within the cube, and we can seal away the high-pressure air within at our leisure. Now, let's say we have one-hundred of the resulting seals, and put them in the chamber... .

Eventually, we might start seeing liquid or even solid air from the pressure, but it should remain individual items letting us continue to seal them, though once it hits the solid stage we may run into problems from attempts to unseal something without enough space for it. Heat would increase rapidly as well, though, as the concentration process continued... not sure when we'd hit that stage of things, but I suspect that long before we do we'll have an explosive best used from within a bunker made of force walls.

Edit: Note: Konan's attack on Tobi was... either six or six-hundred billion explosive notes, not sure which. Roughly in the range of five concentrations as suggested. Of course, we'll be needing a faster way to make explosive notes before getting anywhere near that much is viable.
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If those assumptions are valid, and we seal it with PMYF, and maybe get Shadow Clone for the proper gruntwork, we have a reasonable chance of building a citykiller bomb over the course of a week.
 
Player Knowledge Document said:
Attempting to create a wall when there is anything solid in the way causes the seals to fail and be ruined.
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Hmmm... if the force walls count as solid for this purpose, that might not be so easy... might play with geometry a bit, see if I can work out a way to get the walls flush but not intersecting and with no seal exposed to the inside of the chamber. We'd need ridiculous precision to make it work like that, though, since the failure mode would be... unhealthy, to put it lightly.

Edit: Alright, bit of thought and I'm pretty sure it can still be done without intersecting, though not with a perfect cube. I'm pretty sure the direction of the explosion in the failure mode can be directed away from two of the six directions... .
 
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Logos said:
Nope. We've shown pretty handily that we can seal air without a container, so if you set a seal up to seal air in an area, it shouldn't randomly drag other things in.
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We have? I might be misremembering, but I thought Kagome's implosion seals worked by sucking up anything loose in a spherical radius and then released everything in an explosion because the seal destroys itself on purpose.
 
Description says that it seals all the air in the area... I suppose in the intended role it might not make a difference, and so could be overlooked. We should test that before trying it.

On the bright side, since it mentions imploding lungs by taking the air from them, it probably isn't limited by line of effect, which bodes well for stealing the highly compressed air out of the blast chamber.
 
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