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I think I'm mostly done with content edits. We're currently at -1 XP, but I don't really want to lose the context of a lot of the wordier parts. I suppose we could cut actual content if we really need to, though I'm not especially bothered by the XP loss. Nonetheless, @Noumero, you can try your magic.

[X] Action Plan: Family Matters
Word count: 493

Asuma
  • Hazou is the Mizukage's nephew. He's not made any use of this fact, and has little love for his clan, but is willing to let Asuma do so, for the good of Leaf.
  • In Asuma's view, would it help for Hazou to personally intercede on Ami's behalf?
  • Would he permit Hazou to write to his mother? Personal matters only, and Hazou won't object to the contents being read.
  • Hazou would like Asuma's permission to negotiate with Yasuji. Asuma would be informed of the progress and would get veto rights on the prospective deal.
Yasuji
  • Only carry this out if Asuma approves the negotiation. Discuss with Mari the night before.
  • Goal: Work towards an actual deal. We do want a lasting barrel for Noburi and the koi.
  • Method: Be friendly and straightforward, but treat him seriously. You'd like to work with him to assemble an offer the Wakahisa would accept.
  • Have breakfast together and then talk to him in private, in your office.
  • Float the idea of selling Kagome's defensive coverings for Noburi's barrel.
Akane introspection
  • Hazou takes some time to think about Akane's suggestion of re-igniting their relationship.
  • Akane didn't just break up with Hazou due to the agency issue. During that painful conversation, she also mentioned:
    • The imbalance of power between herself and Hazou
    • Wanting to be her own person, and not just an extension of Hazou's will
  • Akane claimed Hazou has changed. But has he changed enough to invalidate these reasons? He's gained even more power over her since.
  • Hazou rethinks what he knows about Akane, from the very beginning
    • She's strong, bright, optimistic, and never falters. It was not always so, though, according to her.
    • She yearns for purpose and dedicates herself to causes - Youth, her apprenticeship to Hazou, the team, Uplift, Leaf. She almost killed herself from not wanting to slow you down. Akane is desperately, unreasonably loyal.
    • It's a bit sad, when put like that. As if she herself, and her own life, always matter less. When Hazou originally confessed his feelings, she responded by saying she wasn't good enough for him.
    • How can she be so bright and strong, and yet value herself so little?
  • If you're going to be together again, it needs to be as equals. Hazou needs to see Akane as a person with agency. But she also needs to see herself as valuable and worthy. Like with Keiko, agency is a two-way street.
  • What was she going to say, back when you were leaving for the tournament finals? How did Akane become Tsunade's apprentice anyway? You should go ask Mari, somehow you have a bad feeling about this.
Mari
  • Bring her some chocolate. She deserves it for dealing with the Itachi mess.
  • Relay your thoughts about Akane, and ask for advice.
  • Inquire about what happened while you were gone for the tournament.
  • In her honest and brutal opinion, how much does the clan need the bargaining chip of Hazou's hand in marriage?
Thank you! Which updates were you reading?

Mostly the ones around the team's first stay in Leaf, and the 5th Exam event. I was originally planning on just reviewing the breakup updates, but then got sucked into the rampage. That part was so much fun. Goddamnit Jiraiya. :(
 
@Roomba
Methinks we should emphasize them as being "defensive coverings", instead of being "Kagome's modifications"? The latter implies Kagome's been studying Noburi's barrel, which we don't want Yasuji to think.

I agree but for a different reason. If we can spin it, let's pretend Jiraiya made these modifications since he has more clout than Kagome does. That way the trade might look more lucrative to someone like Yasuji. Of course, we'd have to bring Kagome on-board so he isn't upset about feeling less valuable. And so he can, if not play along, at least not contradict us when we tell Yasuji (ideally by just not being around with his terrible Deceit).

[X] Action Plan: Family Matters
 
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By the official jutsu doc, Shadow Clone can be used for training if it is at or above level 30, at which point our clones can last for 'a few hours'. Each training block of 'a few hours' with which we have a Shadow Clone training gives us +10% XP for that day. So if we gain 4 XP that day, then having one Shadow Clone training block in that day bumps us up to 4.4 XP.

With Wakahisa water, we have the theoretical ability to expend very large amounts of chakra to summon as many clones as we want. If we could summon 10 clones that last for 'a few hours' and have each clone spend 'a few hours' training before popping then we would gain +100% XP for that day, turning a 4 XP day into an 8 XP day. The catch is that popping clones forces us to make a Resolve check, and the more training blocks we have up that day, the harder the check is. Thus even with the chakra limit out of the way we are still limited by our Resolve.

(As an aside, if we bring Shadow Clone up to level 40 then we can have each Shadow Clone train for 3 'a few hours' training blocks in one day, instead of 1. This saves on chakra but does not help the Resolve check as one Shadow Clone training for three blocks is the same as three Shadow Clones training for one block each.)

So, the process of FOOM is the following:
  1. Train shadow clone at maximum capacity
  2. Dump all our XP into Resolve
  3. Repeat
This is a self-reinforcing feedback loop, as the higher our Resolve the more shadow clones we can field, the more shadow clones we can field the faster we gain XP, the faster we gain XP the faster we gain Resolve.

The main limiter on this feedback loop is that we need to maintain our skill columns. Right now our top skill is in the 40's, which means the highest we can get Resolve is 59 before we have to shift gears. Once we hit Resolve 59, the goal becomes to get something else into the 50's so that Resolve can hit 60, and then we return to leveling Resolve up to 69, and then repeat. It's in these segments that FOOM starts to really benefit us, and we've crunched the numbers to figure out exactly how much.

The overall plan for FOOM takes five years in-universe, and gets us enough stats to make S-rank (an example stat arrangement is Resolve 100, Deceit 90, Alertness 80, Sealing/Technique Hacking 70, MedKnow/Presence 60, etc.) However, we turn a profit in terms of 'XP spent on things other than Resolve' at the first diversion to build up our columns, as by that point we should be able to handle 15 Shadow Clone training blocks per day. You can find a spreadsheet (created by Noumero, profitability analysis added by me) detailing the progression here.

Hope this helps!
You know, stunts which let us do more things with Resolve would be really useful. We'll be getting tons of resolve anyway, might as well make the most of it, right?
 
@Roomba I'm No Noumero, but I got it to 399. Let me know if you think I changed too much (or too little, with the Akane section, I'm hesitant to mess with that introspection too much). I also don't know how to do the formatting, sorry, but if you don't have time I can try and figure it out.

[X] Action Plan: Family Matters
Word count: 399


Asuma
Hazou is the Mizukage's nephew. Asuma's welcome to use that fact, there's little love lost there.
Would it help for Hazou to intercede on Ami's behalf?
Would Asuma permit Hazou to write to his mother? Personal matters only, and no objection to contents being read.
Hazou would like Asuma's permission to negotiate with Yasuji. Asuma gets progress reports and veto rights.

Yasuji
Only negotiate if Asuma approves. Discuss with Mari before.
Goal: Work towards a deal. We do want a lasting barrel for Noburi and the koi.
Method: Be friendly and straightforward, but treat him seriously. You'd like to assemble an offer the Wakahisa would accept.
Have breakfast together and then talk to him in private.
Suggest trading/selling the defensive coverings for Noburi's barrel.

Akane introspection
Take time to think about re-igniting the relationship with Akane.
Akane didn't just break up with Hazou due to agency issues. She also mentioned:
-The imbalance of power between them
-Wanting to be her own person, not just an extension of Hazou's will
Akane claimed Hazou has changed. Has he changed enough to invalidate these reasons? He's gained even more power over her since.
Rethinks what Hazou knows about Akane, from the beginning
-She's strong, bright, optimistic, and never falters. It wasn't always so, though, according to her.
-She yearns for purpose and dedicates herself to causes - Youth, being Hazou's apprentice, the team, Uplift, Leaf. She almost killed herself not wanting to slow you down. She's desperately, unreasonably loyal.
-It's a bit sad, put like that. As if she herself, and her own life, always matter less. When Hazou originally confessed his feelings, she responded by saying she wasn't good enough for him. How can she be so bright and strong, yet value herself so little?
-Being together again can only be as equals. Hazou needs to see Akane as a person with agency. But she needs to see herself as valuable and worthy. Like with Keiko, agency is a two-way street.
What was she going to say, before leaving for the tournament finals? How'd Akane become Tsunade's apprentice anyway? Maybe ask Mari, somehow you have a bad feeling about this.

Mari
Bring her some chocolate. She deserves it.
Relay your thoughts about Akane, and ask for advice.
Ask what happened while you were gone for the tournament.
In her honest opinion, does the clan need for Hazou to marry politically?"
 
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She paused for long seconds. "This explains things that I always wondered about in my studies; Mist's imports have shrunk since the founding of the village. Not enough to matter, but by a statistically significant amount. Mist does not have enough farmland to sustain itself, so it is dependent on those imports. If they shrink below a certain point, there will be no choice but conquest. That may even have been what our original mission was about—we were to capture land in Noodle in order to guarantee the village farmland and a beachhead on the mainland as a staging ground for future warfare."
Wasn't there talk about fertilizer, underground farms, and related agricultural improvements? Being able to mass-produce larger quantities of food year-round would make Leaf self-sufficient and be able to export food far more than normally, if nothing else.

Most of the trouble is going to be making the crops survive since it's winter, sadly; we'd need some form of sunlight + warmth to give the crops the energy they need to grow. Jiraiya had these Daybright seals, which I think mimic photosynthesis sufficiently [citation needed], but unless we want to have Akane spam EM every 3 hours, we need a source of warmth to keep the crops from breaking. Jiraiya's seals probably should have something, and if worst comes to worst we can just use a fire beneath the farm itself to warm the area or something.
Some things I found on my reread.

Anyone thinking that showing the Wakahisa Clan the method of solving Mist's food insufficiency would be worth a lot?
 
Some things I found on my reread.

Anyone thinking that showing the Wakahisa Clan the method of solving Mist's food insufficiency would be worth a lot?
Definitely, but weren't all of those ideas theoretical in universe? As far as Wakahisa are concerned it could be a lot of what ifs in exchange for the real benefits the koi and Nob's barrel bring.

Actually have we even given Asuma these ideas for Leaf yet?
 
Definitely, but weren't all of those ideas theoretical in universe? As far as Wakahisa are concerned it could be a lot of what ifs in exchange for the real benefits the koi and Nob's barrel bring.

Actually have we even given Asuma these ideas for Leaf yet?
I was thinking something along the lines of making a project out of it? We could start with the Daybright seals, see if they make a difference.
 
I was thinking something along the lines of making a project out of it? We could start with the Daybright seals, see if they make a difference.
Oh we definitely should, it's been pushed off for too long. We really should put some focus on projects next cycle, the team Hazo put on the glider project might even be far enough along for us to step in and speed up a bit.

Is there any other projects and ideas I'm forgetting, besides SIN nukes.
 
Oh we definitely should, it's been pushed off for too long. We really should put some focus on projects next cycle, the team Hazo put on the glider project might even be far enough along for us to step in and speed up a bit.

Is there any other projects and ideas I'm forgetting, besides SIN nukes.
Salterns, super-LBF, Megalovania seals, land-clearing, chakra quantification...
 
Yasuji
  • Only carry this out if Asuma approves the negotiation. Discuss with Mari the night before.
  • Goal: Work towards an actual deal. We do want a lasting barrel for Noburi and the koi.
  • Method: Be friendly and straightforward, but treat him seriously. You'd like to work with him to assemble an offer the Wakahisa would accept.
  • Have breakfast together and then talk to him in private, in your office.
  • Float the idea of selling Kagome's defensive coverings for Noburi's barrel.

We're not going to get anything useful if we don't have anything as valuable as bloodline secrets to give him.
 
Salterns, super-LBF, Megalovania seals, land-clearing, chakra quantification...

I know the first one and the last two, but the others? No clue what those are... maybe it was before my time or something. If you shoot me a link to where the super LBF and the Mega seals are explained, I'll add it to my list of goals?

It may be even better long term if we can successfully negotiate to trade food to them. That would make them dependent on Leaf and thus even less likely to go to war against us.

*eyes the citrus trade idea*
Huh, if only we knew of a place with food that was unique to them. Unique enough, perhaps, to draw the interest of a certain foreign country we're trying to court... Hm.
 
I know the first one and the last two, but the others? No clue what those are... maybe it was before my time or something. If you shoot me a link to where the super LBF and the Mega seals are explained, I'll add it to my list of goals?
Super-LBF is a meme on Action Relay Seals.
This is a good time to explain the incredibly broken sealing tech we are currently climbing

ARS (action relay seals ) are seals that will be able to remotely activate another seal they are paired with. We already have an entry into this tech tree with LBF (lesser barrier formation). LBF creates a sensor that pairs with 2 seals. If the sensor is broken or either seal is activated both seals are triggered.

What ARS will do is allow for us to remotely trigger seals by activating the ARS. After that we can work on MARS (multiple action relay seals) to have one seal trigger many other seals at a distance. Which allows us to start breaking action economy.

However even MARS are not the true pinnacle of the tech tree. That honor is reserved for TARS (triggered action relay seals). These seals will be an ARS that when a condition is met they will activate. The current plan is to have them trigger when substitution is used. This will give us a massive of turn defense and debuff. Air domes will spring up, storage seals will open, goo Bombs will coat our enemies, flash bangs will blind them, banshee fuckers will deafen them, Pangolin pepper macerators will poison them, Purifiers will protect us, directional explosions will trigger, fireballs will appear and any other dirty trick we can think of will all happen at once. This seal fundamentally breaks action economy and provides defend and offense

We currently have access to the chakra sensing tech tree with casino seals so no new trees have to be discovered to make this happen
What are Megalovania seals again?


Macerators with variable unstore position + velocity vectors in 3-space.
 
Update to my post earlier today about grinding seal mastery:
Something I threw together yesterday/today:

Now that we know the rules for how mastering a seal works in FtD, I wanted to try and optimize. See, our Shadow Clones don't have Iron Nerve, so they don't get our auto-success on drawing seal blanks, and that means if we want to reliably churn out tons of seals with our shadow clones (if we can make 10 clones and send them to make seals for 3h then we get 360 seal elements when they're done) then they need to master drawing the seal blanks themselves.

Mastering a seal is a number's game. The odds of failing an individual seal is low, but if you throw the dice enough times you'll get snakeeyes sooner or later. And since it takes 50 successes to reduce the TN by 1, we're throwing the dice a lot of times before it's fully mastered.

All is not lost, however, since you can stack the deck in your favour, with a little work. We have a few things we can do to increase the odds of successfully grinding the seals:
  1. Be Careful when scribing (+1 AB, +5m)
  2. Verify the seal (second calligraphy check, +1h)
  3. Careful verification (second calligraphy check at +1 AB, +3h)
Naturally these all take extra time, and are thus suboptimal for full production rates, but can increase our odds of mastering a seal without any sealing failures dramatically.

The spreadsheet linked above goes into much more detail, calculating exact odds of mastery without hitting a sealing failure, and how long it is likely to take to grind that seal to mastery.

Q: Why do we want to do this? Can't we just use Hazou Prime with Iron Nerve up?
A: For seals we only need a small quantity of, Hazou Prime is sufficient. For seals we want to make thousands of, dedicating a dozen Shadow Clones to the task would be very efficient.

Q: How do we know where we are on the chart?
A: There's no way to be sure (though I suspect I could put together a mechanism that estimates our current position based on number of found failures), so the primary utility of this sheet right now is to inform our general strategy from a position of not knowing exactly where we land on the chart. How much time do we want to sink into mastering this seal, compared against the increased odds of success for specific TNs, that sort of question is for you to decide with the help of the chart.
Over the past few hours I've hammered out a TN estimator, which takes in {number of seals drawn, number of defects found, number of sealing failures} and tells you what TN the seal likely is. It's in the second sheet of the doc.

Then I made a third sheet, which is a more condensed form that shows you the odds and TN estimator for a single strategy (a strategy being how many checks you make and whether they're careful or not), which should make it easier to use.

With this, I believe that we can optimally grind mastery by starting with a careful strategy and then, once we've calculated the likely TNs, select the most optimal balance of safety and swiftness for the rest of the mastery grind.

I've also put a link to it in my sig for easy future reference.
 
I think I'm mostly done with content edits. We're currently at -1 XP, but I don't really want to lose the context of a lot of the wordier parts. I suppose we could cut actual content if we really need to, though I'm not especially bothered by the XP loss. Nonetheless, @Noumero, you can try your magic.




Mostly the ones around the team's first stay in Leaf, and the 5th Exam event. I was originally planning on just reviewing the breakup updates, but then got sucked into the rampage. That part was so much fun. Goddamnit Jiraiya. :(

I realize you're likely to bed, but once again pinging the edits just in case.

@Roomba I'm No Noumero, but I got it to 399. Let me know if you think I changed too much (or too little, with the Akane section, I'm hesitant to mess with that introspection too much). I also don't know how to do the formatting, sorry, but if you don't have time I can try and figure it out.
 
and has little love for his clan
Worried Asuma will react poorly to Hazou about this.

Since I'm worried about Keiko if we don't try to negotiate helping Ami, and about Asuma if we ask for permission to trade toad jutsu that leaves me with:
[X] Action Plan: Summons Everywhere
[x] Action Plan: Flashback to Kagome's Forbidden Lore
[x] Lore Update
[x] Interlude
To planmakers, I plan to vote for any plan that isn't risky (like ignoring Ami or ask Asuma about risky things) once I wake up if the deadline hasn't passed.
 
I feel people are overstimating Yasuji or ourselves, Mari explicitly told us he needs an extremely good deal to convince his clan, "Reinforced Barrels" is not going to cut it, while "7th path Jutsu" is practically asking "hey, can we commit treason again?"
 
So, I have had a realization.

We have been dancing on the edge of GM burnout.

'Know when that started?

That's right, when we lost Jiraiya.

Conclusion: we need the Bossman back.


So, this needs to be a priority. How do we pursue it? Well, I have a vision.

Hey Uncle, we want Bossman back. You're kinda the premier authority on defying the natural order of things and we'd like to tap you on the matter.
I am refraining from vivisecting you for the sole purpose of discovering why you thought this wise or that I would care.
As evidenced by your current presence, dude was pretty fair to you. He'd also have an arguable continuing claim to the hat. Want a friendly Hokage and a pet jinchuuriki? By the way, Hidan says, "hi", and we really should discuss a recent sealing failure or three he may or may not have been absolutely delighted by.
...fair.
 
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Super-LBF is a meme on Action Relay Seals.

*sigh*

Screw it.

We succeed by flipping the table. A downright miracle resulted from what Jiraiya called the first holy grail of ninja combat: flight.

What was the second? Armor. Pockets of directional explosives activated by damage would be similarly world-changing.

What's the difficulty? Well, the general calculation comes down to how many people would have the prerequisites, how obvious it is, and the value of the result.

The prerequisite is directional explosives, which we have seen zero indication anybody who hasn't met their independent inventor "bee-tee-dubs, I invented super-detcord" Kagome has even conceived of. They're the product of an autistic savant spending a decade meditating on the nature of explosions in an environment with fewer distractions than a Swiss patent office. Even Jiraiya was surprised by and impressed with them.

-which suggests that the threshold to make them activate on damage, contact, (other useful trigger) needn't be terribly high.

The effect on the meta would be similar to the invention of skywalkers. Imagine a village which had every combatant covered head-to-toe with fifty layers of fully automatic "fuck everything in a 30-degree cone of that incoming attack".
 
I realize you're likely to bed, but once again pinging the edits just in case.

Hey, thanks a bunch for doing this. I unfortunately got held up this morning for longer than expected, and then didn't want to edit the plan half an hour before the deadline, so I ended up not incorporating it. Just wanted to be clear that I did see it and appreciate the effort.

Worried Asuma will react poorly to Hazou about this.

I'm very confident Asuma knows about Hazou and Hana's circumstances. We're not saying this to inform him, but to underline that we don't actually want to talk to Ren or the Kurosawa in general, and we're offering to do it because it might help the village.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Velorien on Jun 3, 2020 at 7:03 AM, finished with 157 posts and 12 votes.
 
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