But from what i'm understanding :
-we are not giving them the IN
-If an actual child of Goketsu is born with a Sharingan from Future!Hazou's Wife, i hope we're not giving it to them, because it's quite some shade darker than the current deal.
The text of the deal allows for Hazo himself to be drafted into Uchiha, should he develop the Sharingan. @eaglejarl responded with HDK when I asked if Sasuke would press the point--so it seems like even that is at least possible. Hazo's kids? Of course. The deal is explicit--any Goketsu with Sharingan goes into Uchiha.

There's no doubt about it. The deal as it stands means giving Uchiha the Iron Nerve (at least some of those 15 Kurosawa-blooded kids will have it) and also handing over any native Goketsu Sharingan users, with only the possible exception of Hazo himself.
 
Last edited:
Does anyone know if there's an easy way to find the plans that are currently on offer? Also, is there any way for me to easily find out what are the current vote totals?
 
Does anyone know if there's an easy way to find the plans that are currently on offer? Also, is there any way for me to easily find out what are the current vote totals?

Yes. In the top right of the page under "Thread Tools" there is a vote tally option.

Example:

(You need not press "insert tally" to view it, though thats an option. Also, clicking on the first vote for a plan will bring you to the full text. Just dont mess with the tallying options since that'll throw the count off potentially.)
 
Last edited:
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by MMKII on Jul 2, 2019 at 10:59 AM, finished with 648 posts and 28 votes.
 
Yes. In the top right of the page under "Thread Tools" there is a vote taly option.

Example:

(You need not press "insert tally" to view it, though thats an option. Also, clicking on the first vote for a plan will bring you to the full text. Just dont mess with the tallying options since that'll throw the count off potentially.)
Thanks!
 
Hm.

According to our good friend Shin, Hazou is one of the purest Kurosawa alive. I wonder if that means we make a lot of IN kiddos.

Edit: And Sharingans of course.
That claim of Shin's is a little strange to me given that Hana married Shinji instead of another relatively pureblood Kurosawa. I'm not sure, but I'm inclined to think that the whole purity of blood stuff is more superstition than actual bloodline potency. Either that or the Kurosawa have mapped out rather unintuitive patterns of bloodline potency that allow for a half-Kurosawa-half-not to still be of the 'purest blood'.
 
237 Words
[X] Action Plan: Merge the Clans
  • Call a Clan meeting, definitely including Naruto and preferably including Keiko. The contents of the meeting are defined as a Clan secret, which should mean that Keiko is not obligated to reveal them to the Nara. (Shikaku told her that as a married-in she would not be required to hand over Goketsu secrets, and this is why she chose to marry in rather than be adopted in to Nara.)
    • Lay out the Uchiha proposal
      • Point out the fact that it means giving up the IN monopoly
      • Point out the fact that it might require Hazo himself to switch to Uchiha at some random time in the future
      • Point out the fact that it certainly and explicitly requires handing over any native-born Goketsu Sharingan users
      • Point out the fact that it has multiple ethical problems. (Rape, brood-mares, slavery)
    • Suggest an alternative--merging the clans
      • Merged clan would have dual Headship, with one Head being a Goketsu (Naruto), one an Uchiha (Sasuke)
        • Acknowledge cost of giving up a council vote, possibly giving up income. (Income loss should be compensated by the combined Clan only needing one compound, not two.)
        • Note that the vote is not relevant to the Hokage election, as Uchiha are just going to sit it out anyways, not vote for our candidate.
    • Request feedback, including alternative deals
    • Make clear that a decision requires a Clan consensus. Nothing of this importance will be done just on Hazo's say-so.
 
Last edited:
Is there by chance some list uhh... listing all the different issues we should be juggling right now?

Because I had totally forgotten about the Isan thing until just now. It could influence election negotiations a lot. Maybe we can mention/discuss it in one of those clan meetings. Next voting cycle maybe?
 
3 kids a year for 5 years? Chances are most of them will have it.

Yes, but that is one of the thing we want to change about the deal.
I mean, morality aside, i hope we are not giving to someone else the bloodline that make use the most reliable sealmasters in all of Leaf and that will make our clan the most accomplish sealing clan in history. There is a reason clans simply DO NOT seal their bloodlines.

The text of the deal allows for Hazo himself to be drafted into Uchiha, should he develop the Sharingan. @eaglejarl responded with HDK when I asked if Sasuke would press the point--so it seems like even that is at least possible. Hazo's kids? Of course. The deal is explicit--any Goketsu with Sharingan goes into Uchiha.

There's no doubt about it. The deal as it stands means giving Uchiha the Iron Nerve (at least some of those 15 Kurosawa-blooded kids will have it) and also handing over any native Goketsu Sharingan users, with only the possible exception of Hazo himself.

The question is, are we fine with this? Question to the hivemind.
 
Yes, but that is one of the thing we want to change about the deal.
I mean, morality aside, i hope we are not giving to someone else the bloodline that make use the most reliable sealmasters in all of Leaf and that will make our clan the most accomplish sealing clan in history. There is a reason clans simply DO NOT seal their bloodlines.



The question is, are we fine with this? Question to the hivemind.
Sure, but that's because they're optimizing for long term clan power, on the order of generations. We, on the other hand, despite our long view, have no reason to do the same. If Hazou dies and the Gōketsu collapse with it, we still have a new PC either way.
 
Yes, but that is one of the thing we want to change about the deal.
I mean, morality aside, i hope we are not giving to someone else the bloodline that make use the most reliable sealmasters in all of Leaf and that will make our clan the most accomplish sealing clan in history. There is a reason clans simply DO NOT seal their bloodlines.

The question is, are we fine with this? Question to the hivemind.
I'm absolutely not fine with this. If you're also not fine with this, please consider voting for Action Plan: Merge the Clans, along with the other plans that refuse this bad deal.
 
Last edited:
In the spirit of more loosey-goosey plans:

[X] Action Plan: This is all fine
Word count: 141

Goals: Care for Mari, resolve Uchiha deal. Also money and actually arranging for Asuma to get that hat.

Critical: Network with rest of team about Mari's off-ness, possibly stage intervention/conversation with her.

Critical: Discuss Uchiha offer with clan
-Hazou's stance is acceptance, barring some caveats about consent/health of women, treatment of children, visitation rights.

Critical: Arrange ice contracts with Hot Springs resort owners, salt operations. MONEY.

Do as much as possible:

Research laws on land ownership
-Could delegate

Talk to Ino, Shikamaru, Chōza. Sympathize about losses, make sure they're on board with Asuma as Hokage. Coordinate on making that happen.

Talk to Asuma to coordinate Hokage strategies.

Reach out to Team Nakano & Jinno about hiring them on as retainers
-Could delegate

Plan with clan about how and when to get Summoning Scrolls. Do as much as possible on that.
 
Last edited:
Sure, but that's because they're optimizing for long term clan power, on the order of generations. We, on the other hand, despite our long view, have no reason to do the same. If Hazou dies and the Gōketsu collapse with it, we still have a new PC either way.
I would think that this far in, we would really like to keep this PC going, rather than lose him on a dangerous gamble and need to start over from the beginning.
 
[X] Action Plan: This is all fine
[X] Action Plan: Mari's Deal

I too missed a bunch of pages since last post, and feel like I'm missing something big. Will try and catch up today, no promises.
 
I would think that this far in, we would really like to keep this PC going, rather than lose him on a dangerous gamble and need to start over from the beginning.
Yeah, sure. But that's an argument for keeping Hazou alive, and has nothing to do with our investsment (or lack thereof) in clan goketsu's multigenerational Power.
 
[X] Action Plan: Deals and Discussions
[X] Action Plan: This is all fine

"In addition, any Gōketsu who develops the Sharingan is immediately and unconditionally adopted or married into the Uchiha"
If they are too young for marriage at the time they develop the Sharingan, does that implies adoption, or can it be betrothal / understanding that they will someday marry some Uchiha to be determined later? In the second case, this means Hazō's kids with his wife can still grow up as Gōketsu. (I know this has been said at least once in the thread, but it moves so fast...)

There are two minor points that I don't think I have seen in the discussion, although I haven't been able to read everything:

1) Even without the deal, joining the Uchiha would be a great benefit to any Sharingan-equipped Gōketsu. This means getting access to Uchiha clan secrets about how best to use it. Of course, it would be better for them to be able to choose for themselves. But still, it means this part of the deal is not as bad as it would be otherwise.

2) We know that inter-clan marriage is maybe rare but it exists. We also know that in general, clans have managed to keep exclusivity over their bloodlines. This means that this is probably not the first instance of "kids with the bloodline go back to the original clan" kind of clause. Would it be useful to ask how this is done usually (in particular, adoption vs marriage)? Is this part of the deal just a copy of a very standard condition? Well, this is probably not very relevant, but I'm a little curious about it.
 
[X] Action Plan: Mari's Deal

Mari's deal puts Mari's psychological state to the forefront. Even if the hat goes to Hiashi, work-arounds are still possible if the team is together and operating at 100%, especially given that the Goketsu are genuine boons to Konoha. Upon reflection, Mari seems to be heading somewhere dangerous... and I think she's more important than the Uchiha issue (edit: speaking in the long-term, of course. Naturally the Uchiha decision is an important short-term decision and I don't want to imply any dismissive-ness to it). We can certainly follow both issues at once, but I just wanted to state that Mari is also a priority, and information should be gathered on that end.

I think it's harder to come up with a solution for mental health problems as a group than, say, logistical problems. Dealing with mental health requires Mari's effective therapist to have strong emotional intelligence. Noburi's personality has been demonstrated to be the closest to who I'd want speaking to Mari while also having the right intent in mind, but I don't think he's there yet. I don't trust Ami. I think Tsunade is ideal. Cognitive behavioural therapy works well IRL and is likely the ideal treatment for Mari's maladaptive behaviours (ex. using her super-genjutsu).

I don't know recall how well Tsunade performed in terms of modifying Mari's mental health before (ex. better? worse?), but I also don't think she was particularly motivated to treat Mari as a patient and that makes a world of difference in therapy effectiveness. If we want to tackle this issue in the future, perhaps the deals we should be optimizing for are in this direction. We can't help Mari ourselves, but we can find someone who can. Playing to our strengths here would be trading for what Tsunade wants (ex. in terms of modifications to existing health-care systems. Re-examine physician reimbursement models in Konoha, assess for existing inefficiencies in how research is performed in Konoha etc.) in exchange for seriously giving Mari CBT. Hopefully, Tsunade has identified problems with healthcare that she'd like resolved but doesn't have motivation to address. We have tons of motivation, increasing access to resources, and so forth. Seems like a potential partnership.

This is the best approach I can think of for treating Mari in the given situation. That is, seek help instead of trying to solo treat it ourselves. Information that is required to assess if it's feasible is:
  • If sufficiently motivated, can Tsunade manage psychological illnesses as well as she does physical ones?
  • What is something that Tsunade can be motivated to act for?
    • Does Goketsu have the ability to achieve this where Tsunade herself could not?
My opinion is also that it is not unreasonable for Mari to assist us in arranging for her own help / treatment. She's certainly a unique case.

Thoughts on other plans - Deals and discussions brings up other issues that are being juggled, but I think gathering information on Mari is more valuable. Please No is more of an emotional response to the Uchiha issue than I would like; I prefer how faflec's plans handle them. I like Steps Forward, but between the two I'd rather go with Mari's plan since I think she needs to be addressed.

@faflec: Not sure how this works, but if you're agreeable could you consider adding a line about what would be required for us to seek professional help for her (and whether or not that is the right decision) in the form of Tsunade in the "Tomorrow morning, discuss with Noburi & Akane (high-security room)" section?
 
Last edited:
Back
Top