Well the MiB seal isn't a genjutsu in the "requires imagination" sense, it's just wiping short term memory and recently formed long term memory, so I think a seal should be able to do it.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Well the MiB seal isn't a genjutsu in the "requires imagination" sense, it's just wiping short term memory and recently formed long term memory, so I think a seal should be able to do it.
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Speak for yourself. I'm feeling pretty awesome at the moment, about having anticipated someone pulling out that exact gag more than five months and five hundred pages later.
Not completely true, that old post stuck in my brain long enough for me to remember it and post the joke.
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Well, yes. A seal should be able to do it, same way as seals can do any other things. In theory.
How would we test such a seal? Pick people we want dead and show them the tag, so if their head blows up it's no big deal?
That works.
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- Europe
It would be nice to research all these high level Sealing ideas and make Hazou the God Emperor of the Elemental Nations.
Sad thing is, for the moment Hazou is not a god and is limited by the physical reality. If we don't invest on basic skills to keep us alive someone will just kill us. It's okay to plan offensive maneuvers that will surprise our enemies, but I don't see us coming up with a trick for perfect defense for all situation without investing XP on the basic skills.
As Hazou currently is, some random Kouta could just show up and throw a kunai with an explosive tag at Hazou and Hazou would probably die. I don't really see us surviving if we stop leveling basic skills now and go whole hog on Sealing.
...unless we retire to a desert island and just hunt chakra animals for the Sealing XP. For some reason this discussion feels really familiar, I could swear I've already had it at least once.
Sad thing is, for the moment Hazou is not a god and is limited by the physical reality. If we don't invest on basic skills to keep us alive someone will just kill us. It's okay to plan offensive maneuvers that will surprise our enemies, but I don't see us coming up with a trick for perfect defense for all situation without investing XP on the basic skills.
As Hazou currently is, some random Kouta could just show up and throw a kunai with an explosive tag at Hazou and Hazou would probably die. I don't really see us surviving if we stop leveling basic skills now and go whole hog on Sealing.
...unless we retire to a desert island and just hunt chakra animals for the Sealing XP. For some reason this discussion feels really familiar, I could swear I've already had it at least once.
[J] Plan Kagome
In other words, all according to my plan.
I don't think anyone here was suggesting we should abandon skills to do research forever.
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Then what was @HyperCatnip's point with "Stupid dice increase" or "Boring dice adder"? To me it sounded very much like he didn't want us to spend XP on basic improvement but instead search for fragile glass cannon builds that would catch our opponents off guard in specific situations.
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- Switzerland
@Twofold, I want us to limit spending XP on basic improvement and get our party at least some unconventional firepower.
I am absolutely fine with turning Hazou into "fragile glass cannon that would catch our opponents off guard in specific situations" as long as "specific situations" cover majority of our opponents. For example, "all ninjas that parry or dodge by centimeters kunai thrown at them" sounds like a good group to catch off guard.
We totally should have Akane, Hazou, Keiko and Kagome combine their Sealing, Weapons and MechApt skills to work on Inconspicuous Explosive Kunai Project. After all, enemy ninjas won't dodge an explosion if they don't expect there to be an explosion in the first place.
Noburi can train Substitution to sealless level, making him ready to use PMYF. Keiko and Akane, if they have time, should do it too.
Not sure about Hazou's training, though. His Substitution is already PMYF-ready. We don't have enough XP to level Sealing. Maybe have him research storage seals? The sooner we get PMYF, the better.
And please keep in mind that these are peacetime plans. If we expect Takahashi will betray us and we will yet have to slaughter an entire village, we should up Keiko's Weapons, Noburi's Water Whip, and Akane's Taijutsu.
I am absolutely fine with turning Hazou into "fragile glass cannon that would catch our opponents off guard in specific situations" as long as "specific situations" cover majority of our opponents. For example, "all ninjas that parry or dodge by centimeters kunai thrown at them" sounds like a good group to catch off guard.
We totally should have Akane, Hazou, Keiko and Kagome combine their Sealing, Weapons and MechApt skills to work on Inconspicuous Explosive Kunai Project. After all, enemy ninjas won't dodge an explosion if they don't expect there to be an explosion in the first place.
Noburi can train Substitution to sealless level, making him ready to use PMYF. Keiko and Akane, if they have time, should do it too.
Not sure about Hazou's training, though. His Substitution is already PMYF-ready. We don't have enough XP to level Sealing. Maybe have him research storage seals? The sooner we get PMYF, the better.
And please keep in mind that these are peacetime plans. If we expect Takahashi will betray us and we will yet have to slaughter an entire village, we should up Keiko's Weapons, Noburi's Water Whip, and Akane's Taijutsu.
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Regardless, I think that it's a good idea to research one or two new seals (PMYF and regular storage, most likely) before the next arc.
Training is limited by time, opportunity, and XP, whereas research for a seal that isn't above our level is only limited by time and opportunity. We can keep getting XP during the day while we research during the evenings, and we'll still have that XP there for the next time we want to train.
Training is limited by time, opportunity, and XP, whereas research for a seal that isn't above our level is only limited by time and opportunity. We can keep getting XP during the day while we research during the evenings, and we'll still have that XP there for the next time we want to train.
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- Phoenix, AZ
Offensive tricks are great, the problem is that we don't currently have a response to someone with 10 weapons dice throwing explosive kunai at Hazou aside from "hope there's a bunch of suitable substitution targets, substitute out of the way 6ish times, then die." The responses to that seem to be either
1. Level Tac Move
Or
2. Level Substitution (so more targets) and Capacity and Regeneration (so they can't just kill us with 8 explosive tags)
PMYF might help solve the targets problem of the second strategy, but low Tac Move means we'd be reliant on Stealth to escape. I'm on board with leveling Substitution and Capacity and Regeneration and Stealth instead of Tac Move, but it's gonna be expensive.
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Okay, then why didn't you say that and instead were all dramatic about how stupid our current way of building Hazou is? This happens a lot with your posts, you start off how the sky is falling and we are doomed if keep on going like we have. But behold there's this one singular answer that will cure all our ills! (This was an exaggeration for effect. But it really is the impression I keep getting from you posts.)
I understand that it's fun to be all dramatic and it might even be a useful tool in getting more voters on your side, but it can also be really aggravating. Would you consider being less overly dramatic in the future? For example, if you have good sealing projects, just suggest them. No need to herald the oblivion that is nigh before your ideas, if the ideas are solid people will happily vote for them.
Sure, it's good to look for an offensive edge through surprise and I have nothing against combining team talents for additional benefits. But at the same time those fancy new kunai are useless if all those poorly dodging ninjas can also kill Hazou with a standard explosives kunai because he didn't invest properly on Tactical Movement.
EDIT: Left some of the post out, also got ninja'd slightly
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@HyperCatnip I really get that you feel strongly about this stuff, but for god's sake stop using phrases like "boring dice adders" and "stupid dice increases" (which I can't help but translate as "being a better ninja"), or continually refreshing the point that you think that most of what we do to make ourselves better ninja are amoeba-like growths that only a lack of foresight could justify. Most people here disagree with you and we've had several very long conversations about it before that never accomplish anything. Please just make your proposals for possible crafting projects, or the likely benefits/costs of the skills you think will be very helpful, without antagonizing everyone. We don't actually need to completely flip our training philosophy to make clever battle strategies or custom weapons, those are just par-for-the-course combat strategies.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
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I agree with both sides here. We should absolutely spend more time researching. We're at the point where we can afford to not spend XP for an update or two (hopefully), but we do still NEED to increase our basic skills, including Substitution, Tac Move, and even Taijutsu (if we want to be able to combat jounin in a melee at some point). Not to mention, Awareness and Deception...
On the note of seals that we need to research: alarm seals and perception seals. Something that projects what's in front of another seal onto a wall? This is actually why I was asking about theorycrafting seals.
On the note of seals that we need to research: alarm seals and perception seals. Something that projects what's in front of another seal onto a wall? This is actually why I was asking about theorycrafting seals.
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*cough*casinoseals*cough*
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- He/Him
Ooh, we could show those seals to Kagome in our next action plan to keep him distracted.
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You ever wonder if QMs put, like, secrets to immortality or ultimate power in there, a summoning contract, maybe Edo Tensei. Shadow clone
And then they are like
"Do you think they'll ever get around to reading those?"
"Nah.."
Here's my proposal as far as research goes:
Once we've finished this arc, we stop off at the fortress for a bit and get through all this backlog of seals we've seen (storage, casino, those village seals based on the contract, etc.) and see what we can salvage/retroengineer from them, and also research PMYF.
Then, once we've done that, we carry on going back to Jiraiya, and carry on with the next arc.
Shouldn't take longer than the time we were waiting for Akane to no longer be crippled, and I think that's a perfectly acceptable length of timeskip.
Once we've finished this arc, we stop off at the fortress for a bit and get through all this backlog of seals we've seen (storage, casino, those village seals based on the contract, etc.) and see what we can salvage/retroengineer from them, and also research PMYF.
Then, once we've done that, we carry on going back to Jiraiya, and carry on with the next arc.
Shouldn't take longer than the time we were waiting for Akane to no longer be crippled, and I think that's a perfectly acceptable length of timeskip.
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I was including storage seals in that.
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Yes, and I don't like it. I want storage asap, not after the arc is over, whenever that even happens.
On Big J and free time:
I think some of us (myself included, ngl) forgot just how much time passed since we went on holiday. J debriefed us on August, 3rd-ish. Next update, depending on how long it covers, might take us into December. This is 4 months of us kicking back. That we chose to spend it.. the way we chose to spend it is not relevant. We won't be getting a holiday from a holiday.
True, J won't make us do work for him (probably) but declining has it's own downsides which y'all know quite well yourselves.
So no, I'm not going to plan for another months long break for us. I'm asuming that once we leave Ninjaville either J or his contacts will be all over us with stuff to do and people to kill.
If I'm wrong, it will make for a pleasent surprise. Otherwise...
I'm fine with researching storage sooner, but I'm not sure we're allowed to research inside the village.