Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Would he do that to us?
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- Yes.
He did so in our favor last time, I'm fully expecting Inoue-sensei to critfail and get caught snooping around Takahashi's house.
Anyone else notice Takahashi's name is similar to Kakashi's? I keep writing it as Takakashi.
Inoue: Hey! The Village Hidden in the Swamp might be gone, but as long as I'm your sensei, Rule #2 is still in effect!
Speak for yourself. I'm feeling pretty awesome at the moment, about having anticipated someone pulling out that exact gag more than five months and five hundred pages later.
- Location
- how about no
Speak for yourself. I'm feeling pretty awesome at the moment, about having anticipated someone pulling out that exact gag more than five months and five hundred pages later.
I'm just happy that people are finally warming up to the idea of a diplomacy based play-style. Back when we first started we were scared shit-less that hunter-nin would find us before we even got to chunin level strength. Now that worrying about them is a lower priority we can finally move on to midterm goals like making and growing a power base since we already have sealing, medical jutsu, and summoning, hopefully, on the way.
It may not have happened as I had envisioned it would (Deception is waaaaaaay better than any skills we had access to back then). Slowly but surely though, we are embracing the Dark Side of Rationality, one update at a time. And it feels soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
So am I. I'm still not entirely happy with our combat capabilities (and probably won't be until we can, individually, take on a low jounin each), but at the same time, we're well off enough to be able afford branching out.
e: So out of curiousity I did a little bit of research on Takahashi's name.
Taka: Hawk, Falcon
Hashi: Depending on which syllable is emphasized, either bridge, or chopsticks. Regarding the former meaning... well, if the QMs are as uncreative as I am when it comes to names, the identity of the summons may be avian.
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- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Inoue-sensei looked up as Hazō approached, and put the borrowed scroll of village philosophy down on the bench next to her.
Hazō glanced around, and then spoke to her very quietly. "Inoue-sensei, I'm worried about what Takahashi might be doing to Keiko behind closed doors. Maybe you should use Truth Lost in the Fog to question her about it?"
Inoue-sensei's eyes grew cold. "No. I'd only do it in the most desperate circumstances, if I thought he was doing something unacceptable, and I had to resort to questioning her to find out what, and she refused to tell me anything.
"Hazō, genjutsu users as a community don't have many rules, and some of them are more flexible than others, but arguably the most important one is that you do not use permanent mind-modifying genjutsu on friends, family or teammates without their consent, unless it's a matter of life and death. Even in a profession that violates people's minds for a living, it's considered incredibly morally wrong, and every single person who does it ends up as a deeply fucked-up individual incapable of normal human relationships.
"If they weren't one to begin with."
She stood up sharply.
"Excuse me. I need to go wash my hair."
I didn't expect there to be so many new systems.I wish there was an @ tag for talking to all the QMS. Ahem.
@eaglejarl @Velorien @AugSphere @Jackercracks
Did you expect there to be as many mechanics questions requiring new systems made as you've gotten?
If there is a thing only Madara can do, it is best to assume by default that in MfD he cannot do it. This will save you a lot of theorycrafting.
If I did have to model it with MfD rules, I'd say "gets a roll at all because Sharingan hax -> wins Taijutsu vs Weapons by a huge amount (would be screwed if he hadn't) -> Weapons to throw kunai back -> Taijutsu to do the rest".
While I love stunt rolls of various sorts in RPGs, MfD doesn't presently have a mechanic for them because a) players don't have fine-grained control over combat and b) you would die.
Could you clarify the conditions for this? Or do you mean a generic battle between the two?
As it happens, "Takahashi" is a very common Japanese surname. Typically, the kanji used are "high bridge" ("taka" from "takai" meaning "high or tall").
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She'll totally do it, won't she... The good news is that Keiko is safer. The bad news is that we still have no clue what the "price" is.
- Location
- ?
Well, what do you know. Brainwashing friends/family is frowned upon. Who could have seen that coming
In other news, Mari is onto us. Better pack that birthday party with extra feels.
Speaking off, I estimate we have three weeks left at most, not including incoming update.
Just a spherical combat in vacuum. They start at distance, no chakra boost (to keep numbers simple) Hazou tries to close in, Kei throws kunai at him, average rolls for both end up with 31 as the final number (in Kei's favor) after all math (which I'm pretty sure I did right this time)
How badly is Hazou injured and does he get to try for a melee roll at all (perhaps with penalties?) or does Keiko kill him on approach?
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- Location
- Europe
Usually I wait before my previous question is answered but I didn't tag all the QMs for that so I'll just ask it again with the new questions and add the whole thing to the Player Knowledge doc.
@eaglejarl, @Velorien, @Jackercracks & @AugSphere
In the update Righteous Face Punching, Hazou rolls TacMove vs Weapons to get into close range against a weapons user. Is this how it will work in the future or was this just a one time off before you ironed out the combat mechanics? If it works like that does it work the same with other ranged skills (ie. ninjutsu)? How does this differ from the new rules regarding explosives where the defense against them in ranged is rolled Weapons vs TacMove?
In Let the Bodies Hit the Floor Bosatsu uses TacMove vs TacMove to stop Hazou. If Ken had used Weapons (with explosives OR with the same mechanic as in RFP) to challenge Hazou's TacMove instead of running away with his own TacMove, would Hazou have gotten hit? Put in other way, can a combatant use TacMove vs TacMove to block and herd enemies to make them easier pickings for ranged combatants and if so how does it work?
About the new explosives rules. If Keiko meets another Weapons user who uses explosives on his Weapons, how is a range duel between them solved roll wise? Assume standard open field where they notice each other at the same time. Do they just roll Weapons vs Weapons or do they need to also roll TacMove to dodge the explosions?
@eaglejarl, @Velorien, @Jackercracks & @AugSphere
In the update Righteous Face Punching, Hazou rolls TacMove vs Weapons to get into close range against a weapons user. Is this how it will work in the future or was this just a one time off before you ironed out the combat mechanics? If it works like that does it work the same with other ranged skills (ie. ninjutsu)? How does this differ from the new rules regarding explosives where the defense against them in ranged is rolled Weapons vs TacMove?
In Let the Bodies Hit the Floor Bosatsu uses TacMove vs TacMove to stop Hazou. If Ken had used Weapons (with explosives OR with the same mechanic as in RFP) to challenge Hazou's TacMove instead of running away with his own TacMove, would Hazou have gotten hit? Put in other way, can a combatant use TacMove vs TacMove to block and herd enemies to make them easier pickings for ranged combatants and if so how does it work?
About the new explosives rules. If Keiko meets another Weapons user who uses explosives on his Weapons, how is a range duel between them solved roll wise? Assume standard open field where they notice each other at the same time. Do they just roll Weapons vs Weapons or do they need to also roll TacMove to dodge the explosions?
- Location
- Switzerland
Hey, people!
I think we should avoid direct approach to power-leveling. It is sub-optimal.
Sure, having more dice is good. The problem is, if we simply throw our XP at Taijutsu/Weapons/TacMove, we will become just another run-off-the-mill ninja. We will be about as powerful as any other ninja with the same amount of XP. We don't want that. We want to be better!
So, as I already said many, many times, we should consider skill synergies. Here are some ideas:
What else can we do to improve our team's power that is not a Stupid Dice Increase?
I think we should avoid direct approach to power-leveling. It is sub-optimal.
Sure, having more dice is good. The problem is, if we simply throw our XP at Taijutsu/Weapons/TacMove, we will become just another run-off-the-mill ninja. We will be about as powerful as any other ninja with the same amount of XP. We don't want that. We want to be better!
So, as I already said many, many times, we should consider skill synergies. Here are some ideas:
- Non-obvious thrown explosives. We should research ways to attach explosive tags to kunai that are not apparent at first glance, if at all. It should make for a great surprise attack.
- Wrap explosive tag around kunai handle, under the usual handle wrap?
- Make explosive tag compartment inside kunai handle?
- Make kunai made of two parts, like Kegome's bouys, put explosive tag inside?
- Poor man's Yellow Flash. Replacing Tactical Movement with kawarimi seems like a good (if chakra intensive) idea and allows to neatly bypass TacMove contests.
- MEW formations designed to direct explosions, amplify explosions, provide shrapnel (MEW-made fougasses and cannons).
What else can we do to improve our team's power that is not a Stupid Dice Increase?
- Location
- Switzerland
@Muer'ci, we can change the term to Boring Dice Adder if you like.
My point is, bigger numbers aren't as satisfying to read about as awesome new options. I'd rather have new ways of solving problems than just increase skill values for old ways. There are lots of strong ninjas in this world. We won't win by training so hard we overtake them and become stronger. Ninjas are prepared to face other strong ninjas and will be ready to counter us. Instead, we should try to become an Outside-Context Problem for them. Let's turn ourselves into something our enemies didn't anticipate, haven't dealt with before, and don't have any counters.
I worked hard on some ways of changing context of battle, before. However, I notice that we severely lack ways to alter social and stealth context. I somewhat neglected this side of our power and will try to remedy the situation right now. I also invite everybody to do the same. Let's have a brainstorming session. What new social options can we create by applying our skills creatively?
Things I've thought about so far:
I am sure I missed tons of options we can take to become an Outside-Context Problem for our opponents. Let's try to find them and implement them.
We should probably start with Poor Man's Yellow Flash.
My point is, bigger numbers aren't as satisfying to read about as awesome new options. I'd rather have new ways of solving problems than just increase skill values for old ways. There are lots of strong ninjas in this world. We won't win by training so hard we overtake them and become stronger. Ninjas are prepared to face other strong ninjas and will be ready to counter us. Instead, we should try to become an Outside-Context Problem for them. Let's turn ourselves into something our enemies didn't anticipate, haven't dealt with before, and don't have any counters.
I worked hard on some ways of changing context of battle, before. However, I notice that we severely lack ways to alter social and stealth context. I somewhat neglected this side of our power and will try to remedy the situation right now. I also invite everybody to do the same. Let's have a brainstorming session. What new social options can we create by applying our skills creatively?
Things I've thought about so far:
- Mystique expy. If we level Transformation and Deception enough, Hazou will be able to infiltrate moderate-security compounds with impunity. This is awesome, but sadly it requires around 500 XP to have decent chance of success. I would like it, but it will only be feasible in the far future. Sadly, this is also not very original. Enemies will be ready for it. We might want to improve the approach before we commit to it. Not enough outside-context vibe for me.
- Shapeshifter. For 221 XP Hazou can get Transformation 20, that allows to shapeshift into animal and bird forms, and use their bodies as they could. Flying as a bird (after learning to fly), swimming like a fish, scuttling around as a rat or a snake (Orochimaru would be proud). Very unexpected, may do us much good. Unfortunately, Hyuuga will see something is wrong. Inuzuka may sniff us. We must work on this if we want to be a long-living shapeshifter.
I am sure I missed tons of options we can take to become an Outside-Context Problem for our opponents. Let's try to find them and implement them.
We should probably start with Poor Man's Yellow Flash.
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- Location
- ?
*sigh* you're missing the point...
That's an opinion and not a fact. Also, a certain number is required for an "awesome new option" to be viable, and that number trends towards "big"
*checks Shapeshifter plan. Sees Transformation 20* why, you even seem to agree.
Not sure how you came up with 500XP for the Mystique plan, Henge requirements for human-based shapes are fairly low and we're going for Deception anyway.
Yes. We probably should. I don't think there's a single person in the thread who objects to that.
It's funny. You talked so much about leveling with long-term goals in mind, you kinda convinced me. I'm thinking about PMYF in particular, and skills we need to use it efficiently. Yet I can't recall a single time as of late where you'd vote to improve Keiko's (or anyone's) Substitution, and she's the main beneficiary of PMYF. How so?
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- Location
- Switzerland
Now that you mentioned it, yeah, we should get our entire team a lot of Substitution dice soon-ish, to allow them to start using PMYF right away after we finish researching it. Substitution 8, at minimum. Maybe Sustitiution 10.
We should also get some points in Weapons for everybody. Don't want to fumble the throw and fall into some chasm, after all.
Henge is not Outside-Context Problem for ninjas. They expect it. They are trained to recognize and combat it. There exist hard counters to it. Security protocols, passwords, enhanced senses. So, to have some success, we would have to invest really heavily into countering all this. Hence, 500 XP estimate.
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- Location
- ?
Passwords&protocols are countered through better intelligence, not Transformation skills. The enhanced senses problem remains, true.
500XP - the number helps estimate how many updates it would take to get there, but doesn't say much in terms of skill levels. How much do you plan to buy with that, and of what?
- Location
- Switzerland
For 221 XP Hazou can get Transformation 20. This is sufficient for shapeshifting and using new form's enhanced senses. Let's take this as an upper bound of Transformation skill needed.
For 272 XP Hazou can get Deception 20. This will allow him to pretend being other people without getting immediately busted by first jounin that glances in his direction.
221 + 272 = 493 XP.
Ideally, we will also need scent-changing or scent-obscuring concoctions, some way to camouflage Hazou's chakra from chakra sensors, and ways to remotely observe facilities we intend to infiltrate, to gather information needed to impersonate other people. Also, Hazou will be able to transform into a rat/sparrow and scuttle/fly around.
- Location
- ?
Perfume
ask Mari for details.If the people in question don't stay in 24/7 we could shadow them once they step outside. Otherwise... depends on the facility type I guess.
A Hyuga sure would be usefull...
@HyperCatnip is right.
We're not a ninja, we're an outer god possessing a ninja, and we should act like it.
So what outside context knowledge do we have?
Well for one, thinker powers are such complete bullshit. Could we get some kind of data analysis seal to make Hazou into Tattletale-lite? A fighting style modelling/prediction seal to mirror Armsmaster's battle precognition program? An empathy/personality modelling seal to give us Jack Slash/Sylvester like manipulation powers?
Next, antimemetics. Truth Lost in the Fog can only wipe memories created since the genjutsu started and there have been several occasions where this has been unhelpful. So let's fix that. We should ask Mari if she can invent an "Obliviate" genjutsu, or if she can't, how much better she'd need to be before it becomes possible. We might also want to look into making a "Men in Black" seal (you know what I mean). Also an Imp seal or genjutsu, would be wonderful.
I wonder if we can make an August Prince seal or genjutsu (fucks with people's brains to prevent them from deciding to attack us)?
We're not a ninja, we're an outer god possessing a ninja, and we should act like it.
So what outside context knowledge do we have?
Well for one, thinker powers are such complete bullshit. Could we get some kind of data analysis seal to make Hazou into Tattletale-lite? A fighting style modelling/prediction seal to mirror Armsmaster's battle precognition program? An empathy/personality modelling seal to give us Jack Slash/Sylvester like manipulation powers?
Next, antimemetics. Truth Lost in the Fog can only wipe memories created since the genjutsu started and there have been several occasions where this has been unhelpful. So let's fix that. We should ask Mari if she can invent an "Obliviate" genjutsu, or if she can't, how much better she'd need to be before it becomes possible. We might also want to look into making a "Men in Black" seal (you know what I mean). Also an Imp seal or genjutsu, would be wonderful.
I wonder if we can make an August Prince seal or genjutsu (fucks with people's brains to prevent them from deciding to attack us)?
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
While I appreciate the value of mind-control-no-jutsu, I think Mari might frown on us developing it. Just a thought.
...
You think Inoue "mind rape" Mari will frown on us for...
You know what?
She might, as well. It lets the QMs create more drama.
- Location
- Switzerland
"Obliviate" genjutsu, if possible, would be awesome. We would be able to give anybody we want an NPC treatment (try convincing them, in case of failure wipe their memories and try again, repeat until success or running out of chakra. If success was not reached, just wipe memory of the encounter and disengage, try again after replenishing mana and preparing better arguments)
"Men in Black" seal also sounds really cool. But we will probably forget about it immediately after we develop it successfully. :lol
I think we already had the discussion about making genjutsu seals, and QM said it's not possible or extremely difficult, so let's reserve these ideas for the far future and continue our search of superpowers.
"Men in Black" seal also sounds really cool. But we will probably forget about it immediately after we develop it successfully. :lol
I think we already had the discussion about making genjutsu seals, and QM said it's not possible or extremely difficult, so let's reserve these ideas for the far future and continue our search of superpowers.
- Location
- ?
Let's maybe put this on hold fo a while. Creep her out too much and Mari might refuse to teach us Genjutsu on general principle.
Hazou just asked her opinion on mind-wiping friends. Let's give her some time to get over that.