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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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I have just had an idea I am excited about.

Let's help Keiko stay safe and be able to use the frozen skein more by training her to mock the voice like Ami does.

Here's how it works. We sit down with Keiko and we pretend to be the voice, saying things like the voice would. Don't bother, it's not worth it, nothing really matters, you won't ever accomplish anything, you might as well stop trying, etc. After each time we say something like the voice, Keiko has to think of some way to reject and mock the voice. Keiko can tell us actual things the voice has said for her to practice retorts to. We practice until she can do it without effort, and then she'll be far better armed against the actual voice when she's in the real frozen skein with the benefits of confidence and practice.

What do people think?
 
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TaliesinSkye said:
I have just had an idea I am excited about.

Let's help Keiko stay safe and be able to use the frozen skein more by training her to mock the voice like Ami does.

Here's how it works. We sit down with Keiko and we pretend to be the voice, saying things like the voice would. Don't bother, it's not worth it, nothing really matters, you won't ever accomplish anything, you might as well stop trying, etc. After each time we say something like the voice, Keiko has to think of some way to reject and mock the voice. Keiko can tell us actual things the voice has said for her to practice retorts to. We practice until she can do it without effort, and then she'll be far better armed against the actual voice when she's in the real frozen skein.

What do people think?
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Hazou doesn't know the Mori Voice exists.
 
MMKII said:
Hazou doesn't know the Mori Voice exists.
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Are you certain? I feel like Keiko's talked about it, at the very least in reference to how some Mori fall to it and become useless.

Summoning @faflec, we need your help?

Edit: In the event that I am wrong and she hasn't mentioned it, I think there's plenty of direct observational evidence of how she acts when she's in the skein for us to make a somewhat less specific training plan that accomplishes much the same ends, that starts out by asking Keiko what the skein is like/how it's trying to get her to change her and make her become more passive and hopeless. Once we have a little information we can help her practice resisting it so she can use the skein more deeply and safely to her benefit and the benefit of everyone else.
 
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TaliesinSkye said:
Are you certain? I feel like Keiko's talked about it, at the very least in reference to how some Mori fall to it and become useless.

Summoning @faflec, we need your help?
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I'm pretty sure that Keiko only refers to it as the "Mori Ice" or "Frozen Skein" or whatever, and does not actually delve into the specifics aside from vague explanations pertinent to its overall functionality as a "Thinker bloodline: I can do this thing. Most of the time it hurts."
 
MMKII said:
I'm pretty sure that Keiko only refers to it as the "Mori Ice" or "Frozen Skein" or whatever, and does not actually delve into the specifics aside from vague explanations pertinent to its overall functionality as a "Thinker bloodline: I can do this thing. Most of the time it hurts."
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If necessary I think that's enough information for us to ask how it works in the context of suggesting that she conduct training in resisting it with Hazou's help so that she can better use it like her sister seems to. That's enough for the plan to work.

Edit:

Another cute idea I just had. We could suggest a non-contact alternative to hugs for Keiko to use to fill the emotional need that physical contact fills. Maybe something like holding up hands palm out facing the other person, who mirrors the gesture with palms close to the other but not touching. Sort of like two people laying their hands on opposite sides of a pane of glass.
 
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TaliesinSkye said:
Another cute idea I just had. We could suggest a non-contact alternative to hugs for Keiko to use to fill the emotional need that physical contact fills. Maybe something like holding up hands palm out facing the other person, who mirrors the gesture with palms close to the other but not touching. Sort of like two people laying their hands on opposite sides of a pane of glass.
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Basically the whole relationship from The Duke of Death and His Black Maid?


 
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TaliesinSkye said:
Are you certain? I feel like Keiko's talked about it, at the very least in reference to how some Mori fall to it and become useless.

Summoning @faflec, we need your help?
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Could have sworn I answered this question before, whatever.

...oh wait, I know when.
eaglejarl said:
Every trace of body language and expression had disappeared from Keiko's body. She was a puppet, her muscles and tendons pushed and pulled by a far-off hand made out of Ice. The sight was terrifying; he'd never seen her go this deep, even back in that room in Iron where she had barely come out of it.

"Keiko?" Noburi asked carefully. His hand twitched, saying loud as a shout how badly he wanted to reach out to her, how clearly he hoped that the touch of warm flesh would melt the Ice, but both he and Hazō knew better. "Come back, Keiko. You're scaring us."

Slowly, so very slowly and unwillingly, the fingers of the Ice unclenched from Keiko's soul and she became human once again. "Very well," she said, traces of frost still creeping through her tone. "We will permit Neji to redeem himself by becoming a loyal servant of the Gōketsu. I will be, as Yamamoto put it, 'hard man' during any necessary discussions; given the conversation we had earlier the option for me to be anything else has been foreclosed."
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eaglejarl said:
"My bloodline as well," Keiko said. "And, as Hazou said, it could be dangerous to an intruder. The Frozen Skein is difficult enough for even a trained Mori to touch. For an untrained person it would almost certainly be fatal."

Agent Black looked at Jiraiya and cocked an eyebrow inquisitively. The Sannin frowned. "That's...possible," he said. "I've never managed to get a clear description of the Mori bloodline, but it's definitely something related to their thought patterns. Most of them seem more...detached, than the average person. I wasn't looking for you to go after bloodline secrets, though. Just affirm that they have no designs at world domination or intent to directly oppose Konoha."
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Right, so, I don't really think that we know-know anything more than this, though I expect most of Uplift has an idea based on how Keiko acts post-Ice, and Mari-sensei should definitely have an idea of what's going on.
 
faflec said:
Could have sworn I answered this question before, whatever.

...oh wait, I know when.


Right, so, I don't really think that we know-know anything more than this, though I expect most of Uplift has an idea based on how Keiko acts post-Ice, and Mari-sensei should definitely have an idea of what's going on.
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Thank you for your wisdom as always :)

You are the true Sage of the MfD universe.
 
We must get Zabuza's autograph. It must be addressed to "The One Who Got Away", and we must tell him that it is a gift for Mari. The look on her face alone will be priceless, to say nothing of Jiraiya.



TaliesinSkye said:
You know, it might actually be fairly interesting to ask Keiko to dip deeply into the frozen skein to see what she came up with as answers to that question, based on all the data she has about people in Leaf that might be possible matches. She can run the factors nearly as well as Ami, and she probably knows the Leaf people a lot better. She could use all that to possibly predict compatibility in terms of the many factors that make up personality and also political considerations and potential for working together to uplift the world.
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"Rock Lee."

"...you're still angry at me, aren't you?"

"Sometimes, you mock the voice. Sometimes, the voice mocks you."​
 
Lailoken said:
We must get Zabuza's autograph. It must be addressed to "The One Who Got Away", and we must tell him that it is a gift for Mari. The look on her face alone will be priceless, to say nothing of Jiraiya.
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Oh gods this is amazing and we should do it. I'm not sure he'll agree, but maybe he'll be too surprised by the request to say no.

But what to have him autograph?
 
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Yes, lets catapult Mari into depression, this time with added PTSD flashbacks.
 
faflec said:
A signed autograph from Yagura saying "the ones that got away"? Are you serious?

Yagura admitting defeat isn't going to make her depressed.
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Yagura being dead might make the idea difficult. And I don't think it'd count if we dug up his corpse, put a pen in its hand, and signed by moving it around. (Also, Mist might object.)
 
Sketched out plan for Keiko Frozen Skein Training for feedback:
  • Tell Keiko that we've had an idea for training Keiko's ability to use the Frozen Skein, but first we need to better understand how the Skein makes the user detached and passive. Ask her exactly what the experience is like.
  • Once we know about how the Mori Voice works, we can start training. Hazou pretends to be the Voice and says things the Voice says. Don't bother, it's not worth it, nothing really matters, you might as well stop trying, etc. Each time Keiko has to reply with something that rejects or mocks what the Voice is saying. If she has trouble coming up with things to say at first Noburi would probably be good for helping with ideas.
  • Practice until Keiko can reject the sorts of things the Voice says quickly and with confidence. So armed, she'll be able to go into the Frozen Skein with less risk and probably go deeper than she dared before, like Ami demonstrated to be possible. If Keiko expresses doubt about the whole training idea we can point this out as the goal.
  • Optionally we could ask Ami for additional training ideas for Keiko, or suggest that Keiko ask Ami.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
  • Once we know about how the Mori Voice works, we can start training. Hazou pretends to be the Voice and says things the Voice says. Don't bother, it's not worth it, nothing really matters, you might as well stop trying, etc. Each time Keiko has to reply with something that rejects or mocks what the Voice is saying. If she has trouble coming up with things to say at first Noburi would probably be good for helping with ideas.
  • Practice until Keiko can reject the sorts of things the Voice says quickly and with confidence. So armed, she'll be able to go into the Frozen Skein with less risk and probably go deeper than she dared before, like Ami demonstrated to be possible. If Keiko expresses doubt about the whole training idea we can point this out as the goal.
  • Optionally we could ask Ami for additional training ideas for Keiko, or suggest that Keiko ask Ami.
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You seem to think she'll just tell us exactly how everything works like a reasonable person would.
 
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