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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Just so I can claim the "I told you so" points later, Hazou isn't going to develop a magical aura of love and support after a single moment of defiance (if he manages even that) in the face of the pants-shitting terror that is the killing intent of a Kage directed at him. We will be lucky even if the QMs decide to give us Forged in Fire as a result of this (and my personal opinion is that it's a rather silly expenditure of experience at present even then). He might get out of this without becoming the butt of a joke, if indeed he convinces Jiraiya to actually do this (which shouldn't be all that hard, but still a possibility).

(As for Keiko, I can just imagine her disdain and impatience as she reluctantly takes it upon herself to inform Hazou that he is not a comicbook hero.)

If we want to develop a Jounin aura it's probably going to take some time and effort, and if we want to exude some sense of warmth and protection specifically, that's going to take a lot of soul-searching indeed.

Hazou barely even knows who he is. He was just in the previous update expressing how little of his personality and sense of self exists outside of external referrents to his clan, Leaf, a vague ideal of Uplift, etc.

You all want him to double down on his ideals, and I get that, but all I'm seeing is form without substance. Hazou has not managed to connect with the source of the motivation, in the way analogous to the MOR!Patronus, which seems to be the unspoken expectation here (although I note it's been indirectly referenced a couple times). And quite frankly, I don't think many people here have either.

The thing is, it's very easy to feel that sense of determination well up inside you when you face the darkness in the world. It's very easy to feel defiance in the face of death and suffering.

It's another thing entirely to actually confront that darkness day in and day out and consistently strive to do something about it. A hundred thousand people were consigned to oblivion today, and another fifty thousand will follow before the day's out. What have you done about that?

Given, it'll be a lot easier in MFD-verse to do anything of note than in real life, and if we consistently work at it I'm sure we will have Hazou make an impact (at least, more than he has so far).

Still.

*gets off soapbox to hand out wet blankets with crudely drawn smiley faces and the word "UPLIFT!" in bold lettering*
 
UniversalCover said:
Off topic, but Jounin auras being personalized so intensely, and yet their origin being mysterious, weakly supports Kagome's idea of chakra as being about communication between minds. Hiruzen has lots of chakra, so his chakra accurately reports, "I could kill you but I am more likely to grandfather you," etc..
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I swear to jashin if this is someone's alt and they get themselves banned I'm gonna bombard every account you have on the internet with furry memes.
 
UniversalCover said:
@Dissonance Is there something I ought to do before posting a comment on this thread? If there is I am sorry, I am new to Sufficient Velocity and have been lurking up until now.
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Partially memeing, partially concerned we'd have another member get banned.

Sufficient Velocity has a rule that people can only have one account on it. I noticed today your account was made yesterday and you hopped into the conversation SUPER CASUALLY.

Since you aren't an alt, welcome to the world of posting! I'm glad you're here. :)
 
Vecht said:
Just so I can claim the "I told you so" points later, Hazou isn't going to develop a magical aura of love and support after a single moment of defiance (if he manages even that) in the face of the pants-shitting terror that is the killing intent of a Kage directed at him. We will be lucky even if the QMs decide to give us Forged in Fire as a result of this (and my personal opinion is that it's a rather silly expenditure of experience at present even then). He might get out of this without becoming the butt of a joke, if indeed he convinces Jiraiya to actually do this (which shouldn't be all that hard, but still a possibility).

(As for Keiko, I can just imagine her disdain and impatience as she reluctantly takes it upon herself to inform Hazou that he is not a comicbook hero.)

If we want to develop a Jounin aura it's probably going to take some time and effort, and if we want to exude some sense of warmth and protection specifically, that's going to take a lot of soul-searching indeed.

Hazou barely even knows who he is. He was just in the previous update expressing how little of his personality and sense of self exists outside of external referrents to his clan, Leaf, a vague ideal of Uplift, etc.

You all want him to double down on his ideals, and I get that, but all I'm seeing is form without substance. Hazou has not managed to connect with the source of the motivation, in the way analogous to the MOR!Patronus, which seems to be the unspoken expectation here (although I note it's been indirectly referenced a couple times). And quite frankly, I don't think many people here have either.

The thing is, it's very easy to feel that sense of determination well up inside you when you face the darkness in the world. It's very easy to feel defiance in the face of death and suffering.

It's another thing entirely to actually confront that darkness day in and day out and consistently strive to do something about it. A hundred thousand people were consigned to oblivion today, and another fifty thousand will follow before the day's out. What have you done about that?

Given, it'll be a lot easier in MFD-verse to do anything of note than in real life, and if we consistently work at it I'm sure we will have Hazou make an impact (at least, more than he has so far).

Still.

*gets off soapbox to hand out wet blankets with crudely drawn smiley faces and the word "UPLIFT!" in bold lettering*
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*coughs*

MMKII said:
Like, probability >99% that this is going to fail regardless, right?

I hope that we're all aware of the danger here. @Velorien is going to have Hazou's mind sundered beneath the weight of at least Jiraiya, and likely Keiko as well. OOC I think thats whats most likely to happen.
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I'm mostly doing this for desensitivity training, figuring out more about this thing, some empirical data etc.

(On the tiny chance it works though lets make sure its Super Duper Epic)
UniversalCover said:
Off topic, but Jounin auras being personalized so intensely, and yet their origin being mysterious, weakly supports Kagome's idea of chakra as being about communication between minds. Hiruzen has lots of chakra, so his chakra accurately reports, "I could kill you but I am more likely to grandfather you," etc..
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Hello! Welcome to the thread!

*peers at name*

*gets excited*

You must be a topologist!!

E: Unless you are not, of course.
 
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UniversalCover said:
@Dissonance Is there something I ought to do before posting a comment on this thread? If there is I am sorry, I am new to Sufficient Velocity and have been lurking up until now.
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Welcome! Nothing you have to do. Feel free to contribute to discussion and vote for plans or even propose your own.

In entirely unrelated news, I think we have something to hide behind now when one of @Radvic's plans goes off.
 
Vecht said:
Just so I can claim the "I told you so" points later, Hazou isn't going to develop a magical aura of love and support after a single moment of defiance (if he manages even that) in the face of the pants-shitting terror that is the killing intent of a Kage directed at him. We will be lucky even if the QMs decide to give us Forged in Fire as a result of this (and my personal opinion is that it's a rather silly expenditure of experience at present even then). He might get out of this without becoming the butt of a joke, if indeed he convinces Jiraiya to actually do this (which shouldn't be all that hard, but still a possibility).

(As for Keiko, I can just imagine her disdain and impatience as she reluctantly takes it upon herself to inform Hazou that he is not a comicbook hero.)

If we want to develop a Jounin aura it's probably going to take some time and effort, and if we want to exude some sense of warmth and protection specifically, that's going to take a lot of soul-searching indeed.

Hazou barely even knows who he is. He was just in the previous update expressing how little of his personality and sense of self exists outside of external referrents to his clan, Leaf, a vague ideal of Uplift, etc.

You all want him to double down on his ideals, and I get that, but all I'm seeing is form without substance. Hazou has not managed to connect with the source of the motivation, in the way analogous to the MOR!Patronus, which seems to be the unspoken expectation here (although I note it's been indirectly referenced a couple times). And quite frankly, I don't think many people here have either.

The thing is, it's very easy to feel that sense of determination well up inside you when you face the darkness in the world. It's very easy to feel defiance in the face of death and suffering.

It's another thing entirely to actually confront that darkness day in and day out and consistently strive to do something about it. A hundred thousand people were consigned to oblivion today, and another fifty thousand will follow before the day's out. What have you done about that?

Given, it'll be a lot easier in MFD-verse to do anything of note than in real life, and if we consistently work at it I'm sure we will have Hazou make an impact (at least, more than he has so far).

Still.

*gets off soapbox to hand out wet blankets with crudely drawn smiley faces and the word "UPLIFT!" in bold lettering*
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I resonate with this but think attempting to clash with other peoples auras under controlled conditions is a very good way to get started on the soul searching and work required to build the aura, and resistance to such.

I don't expect Keiko to be suddenly made giddy or anything like that by our attempt. I do expect that, if we succeed to project anything at all, it will be the kind of thing the thread has been discussing - an aura based not on desire to destroy, but to fix and improve. I don't think such a thing requires Hazou to self-flaggelate about everything that's wrong with the world all the time.
 
@MadScientist

Minor stuff to get things under WC limit
MadScientist said:
Alright.

Wordcount: 297

[x] Action Plan: The Power of Love to Go Even Further Beyond

  • Practicing KI with Kei:
    • Inform her we will project our own feelings.
    • Project outwards Hazou's own soul. Not a will to destroy, but to support. Even under the terrifying pressure of Kei's KI, Hazou projects a warmth of (sibling!) love that will melt the ice and deliver her the spiritual and absolutely-not-physical hug she so clearly needs. If he's mentally sundered by the ice mirrors so be it, Kei's KI will not push away his support.
  • Grab an hour-ish of Jiraiya's time, alone, if possible.
    • Mindset: Mentally prepare for the most brutal thing you have ever experienced.
    • Ask him about Killing Intent.
      • What's the deal there?
    • Help us practice resisting it, please?
      • It's a critical vulnerability if some Jonin can incapacitate and kill us.
    • Ask Jiraiya to floor you with a bit of his KI as he is the scariest/strongest around.
      • Please don't accidentally kill us or break our minds though.
    • Now. Get. Up.
      • You are Hazou Gouketsu, son of Hana and Shinji.
      • Just one man.
      • Jiraiya is also just one man.
      • If you can't stand against Jiraiya's will, how will you stand against the world itself?
      • The world is a Swamp of Death, slowly devouring humanity. We are all its victims - civilians and ninjas, innocents and killers, the weak and the powerful. We deserve more.
      • You must defeat it. And you can.
      • You will bring down every wall, shatter every chain, undo every barrier the world places in your path. You will find a way, you always have.
      • You must win. And you will.
      • Stand. Raise your head high. Look Jiraiya in the eye.
    • Repeat a few times.
      • Try to at least raise your head and look Jiraiya in the eye without hurting yourself.
    • Ask Jiraiya for intel on our competitors.
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faflec said:
So just to clarify, are we also practicing resisting KI with Keiko? Because from the plan it sounds like all we're doing is trying to project our own KI or equivalent.
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My understanding is that projecting your own aura is how you resist KI (well, that or just having a good Resolve score). If you look at Mari's psychic combat with Yagura and Tsunade, that seems to imply that's what's going on.
 
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For what it's worth, these are my expectations and perspectives:
  • If we get the barebones foundation of what will eventually become a Jounin aura once we're, you know, Jounin, I would consider that an unmitigated success.
  • If we don't get any coherent results, but felt the right emotions, I would consider that acceptable progress towards further attempts in the future.
  • If we spectacularly fail and make a fool out of ourselves while failing to properly feel what we're supposed to feel, then I would consider it a waste of time.
Getting a full Jounin aura is ridiculously overoptimistic. Even getting as far as Keiko has would be more success than I'm willing to expect. The upper bounds of what I reasonably expect to happen are the first steps down the road that Keiko's already walking and most Jounin have already trod fully.
 
Plot twist:

Hana is now the Mizukage after killing Ren.

Good luck with the negotiations Jiraiya!
 
One risk of trying this with Keiko is overcorrection. The Hivemind or Hazou himself might come away with the idea that his method is inherently misguided, when he really just lacks sufficient chakra or practice. Then again, it really might be that the only way to resist killing intent is killing intent in kind. Just asking Keiko or Jiraiya to use killing intent on us doesn't give us fine-grained enough information. We should ask for a sanity check first, maybe from Jiraiya.

(Of course, on the other other hand, Jiraiya could just be incapable of conceiving of what is actually a distinct possibility, or is going to deliberately mislead us, but that way lies madness)
 
Really though, I'm happy to just forget the whole thing if enough people think it's stupid.

I personally want to see whether or not my "anti-KI" thing works (I expect it probably won't, but not at >99% probability as MMKII believes -- more like 60-70% [which I should note would be much worse odds if not for QM excitement], and if it does work then that would be so great). I am sure at >99% probability that J can grind us into the dust if he wants to... but he shouldn't want to, given that it's a training exercise. So that part at least, should come out okay.

The only part I'm really unsure about is Kei's reaction to our experiment. But with another day of brainstorming I'm sure we can patch or mitigate that through what we tell her beforehand.
 
UniversalCover said:
@Dissonance Is there something I ought to do before posting a comment on this thread? If there is I am sorry, I am new to Sufficient Velocity and have been lurking up until now.
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Welcome! There aren't any special rules to follow than the usual stuff. We are all Zabuzas friends here after all.

Except the QMs, for they are the Enemy and you should not trust them. Tried to kill me off via overpowered little boy, did you? Jokes on him though, I got better while got madder.
 
Anderkent said:
I don't think such a thing requires Hazou to self-flaggelate about everything that's wrong with the world all the time.
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I think you might have misunderstood. I too believe this would be a waste of time and energy. That doesn't mean it's not a thing to keep in the back of your mind.

"Hmm. I could make a little more progress today, or I could browse reddit for three hours."

*looks at counter*

"Nope, fuck that."

*gets back to work*​
 
UniversalCover said:
One risk of trying this with Keiko is overcorrection. The Hivemind or Hazou himself might come away with the idea that his method is inherently misguided, when he really just lacks sufficient chakra or practice. Then again, it really might be that the only way to resist killing intent is killing intent in kind. Just asking Keiko or Jiraiya to use killing intent on us doesn't give us fine-grained enough information. We should ask for a sanity check first, maybe from Jiraiya.

(Of course, on the other other hand, Jiraiya could just be incapable of conceiving of what is actually a distinct possibility, or is going to deliberately mislead us, but that way lies madness)
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Don't worry, the leading plan (and mine, although not many people have voted for it) calls for asking Jiraiya for advice/information on how killing intent works and how to resist it/train resisting it.

We're also going to ask him for intelligence on our possible competitors in the tournament, finally. Been trying to get people to do that since the start of the in game month off.
 
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