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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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MMKII said:
If you don't think this would actually work, then this is just devolves into a meme-vote. A very entertaining one and one that would be great to read, but it ultimately just becomes an update that serves no actual purpose at all beyond that.
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Well, even if we don't believe it will work, trying it gives us some info at low cost, so why not try it anyway?
 
MMKII said:
Okay, if you're going to argue by virtue of mechanics, then this is just not a worthwhile pursuit period. This just becomes dice rolls, so its not worth it at all to do, because we lose those flat out, no questions asked. I don't believe this is being mechanically modeled, or we would have seen rolls.

By virtue of characterization: That's not true. Hazou does plenty of things that would characterize him as a determinator. Implicitly and sometimes explicitly. OTOH: Keiko is merely memetically spooky. She has less in the way of deeds backing this up.

If anything is going to win the day, it's going to be his conviction in his ideals, not his ability to project squishy feelings at Keiko.

If you don't think this would actually work, then this is just devolves into a meme-vote. A very entertaining one and one that would be great to read, but it ultimately just becomes an update that serves no actual purpose at all beyond that.

If we're not going to take this seriously, lets just skip to the tourny.

[X]Proceed to the Tournament
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Interesting character interaction and great writing are worth a chapter or part of one, don't you think? And we'll learn some potentially useful things from Jiraiya about how killing intent works and how to resist it and even more importantly get intelligence on our potential opponents in the tournament so we can plan. We'll also learn if we can project emotions other than killing intent.

Also, I've decided I'm in favor of getting Forged in Fire now, since it's dramatically appropriate:
[X] Training Plan: In Case of Emergency, Break the Hazou
Adhoc vote count started by TaliesinSkye on Nov 19, 2018 at 12:40 PM, finished with 302 posts and 13 votes.
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MMKII said:
Okay, if you're going to argue by virtue of mechanics, then this is just not a worthwhile pursuit period.
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I'm not "arguing by virtue of mechanics" I'm saying that neither narrative nor mechanics seems to support the idea that Hazou can win by direct defiance.

MMKII said:
I don't believe this is being mechanically modeled, or we would have seen rolls.
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I also think this is being modeled narratively. (Although I should point out that QMs don't always post rolls if they happen.)

MMKII said:
By virtue of characterization: That's not true. Hazou does plenty of things that would characterize him as a determinator. Implicitly, not explicitly. OTOH: Keiko is merely memetically spooky. She has less in the way of deeds backing this up.
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I think Hazou is characterised as a visionary, rather than as a determinator. I don't think these are the same thing, and while Kei has a lot of narrative weight behind being scary, "determined" is not one of the first three adjectives that come to mind with Hazou (the first five, maybe). "Scary", however has recently become the first adjective that comes to mind when thinking of Kei, possibly only losing to "self-hating".

MMKII said:
If anything is going to win the day, it's going to be his conviction in his ideals, not his ability to project squishy feelings at Keiko.

If you don't think this would actually work, then this is just devolves into a meme-vote. A very entertaining one and one that would be great to read, but it ultimately just becomes an update that serves no actual purpose at all beyond that.

If we're not going to take this seriously, lets just skip to the tourny.
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I feel like you've suddenly become very frustrated and hostile, and I don't understand the reasoning behind that. I'm sorry for upsetting you.
 
MadScientist said:
I feel like you've suddenly become very frustrated and hostile, and I don't understand the reasoning behind that. I'm sorry for upsetting you.
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FMPOV You are indicating that you actually think that doing it your way is preferential to the other way, and would stand a chance of working.

Okay, why?

I don't see the reasoning behind this. This signals to me that we're actually just trying to put some nice touchy feely words and hope that it works out. That's more of a meme-vote than not. I would most prefer we take this seriously if we are spending an update on it.

Like, probability >99% that this is going to fail regardless, right?

I hope that we're all aware of the danger here. @Velorien is going to have Hazou's mind sundered beneath the weight of at least Jiraiya, and likely Keiko as well. OOC I think thats whats most likely to happen.

In the likely case that this all goes to hell, well, do you want Hazou to try to project happy feelings at the Murderchild and hope it goes well?

ME: I thought we were trying to make him less socially oblivious, though? Is this going to help with that?

I would rather he go down fighting with some DETERMINATION. Although HOPES and DREAMS intent would be swell too.

Even if he doesn't have much in the way of that, well, Will of Fire right? Now is as good a time as any to start.

As an aside: While I am not at all upset, I am a bit annoyed (Aside: Is "take annoyance" a thing? You can take offense at something, can you take annoyance at something? Peculiarities of language.) at the remark above. While obviously not ill-intentioned "I'm sorry for upsetting you." can come across as quite dismissive if presented in a vacuum while addressing a large pile of text. I am a big boy and can manage my own emotions just fine, please and thank you. Don't you worry :p
 
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I'm sold. If the plan as-is passes, there's no better time to pick up FiF.
[X] Training Plan: In Case of Emergency, Break the Hazou

I'm also okay with:
[X]Proceed to the Tournament
 
I'm okay with buying FiF, but I can maybe be persuaded not to do this. (Still lukewarm on it)

Perhaps this will signal a willingness to expend VALUABLE XP to give Hazou some (more) good character development.

[]Training Plan: In Case of Emergency, Break the Hazou
 
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MMKII said:
FMPOV You are indicating that you actually think that doing it your way is preferential to the other way, and would stand a chance of working.

Okay, why?
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Because I think that reframing the psychic interaction from a context of escalation to one of de-escalation will work better than throwing our all into escalation and then losing because Kei can escalate harder than Hazou can.

MMKII said:
Like, probability >99% that this is going to fail regardless, right?

I hope that we're all aware of the danger here. @Velorien is going to have Hazou's mind sundered beneath the weight of at least Jiraiya, and likely Keiko as well. OOC I think thats whats most likely to happen.

In the likely case that this all goes to hell, well, do you want Hazou to try to project happy feelings at the Murderchild and hope it goes well?
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I disagree on the odds of failure. I don't think there particularly is any danger to Hazou's mind here.

Jiraiya will be treating it as a training exercise. He won't go overboard. I also think you're downplaying the anti-KI angle. This isn't just rushing in without a plan and hoping things go well, it's a plausible method of rendering Kei's attack irrelevant by reframing the interaction so that whether or not Hazou is intimidated doesn't matter.

MMKII said:
ME: I thought we were trying to make him less socially oblivious, though? Is this going to help with that?
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I don't see either plan having any effect on how socially oblivious Hazou is in either direction, tbh. I infer from this remark that you think my plan will make him more so, but I fail to see how (or rather, I suspect that how you think that will happen is premised on an argument I don't believe).

MMKII said:
I would rather he go down fighting with some DETERMINATION. Although HOPES and DREAMS intent would be swell too.

Even if he doesn't have much in the way of that, well, Will of Fire right? Now is as good a time as any to start.
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While I would rather he not go down at all (hence my Kei section), I do agree with your sentiment here, which is why I included your Jiraiya section.
 
MadScientist said:
Because I think that reframing the psychic interaction from a context of escalation to one of de-escalation will work better than throwing our all into escalation and then losing because Kei can escalate harder than Hazou can.



I disagree on the odds of failure. I don't think there particularly is any danger to Hazou's mind here.

Jiraiya will be treating it as a training exercise. He won't go overboard. I also think you're downplaying the anti-KI angle. This isn't just rushing in without a plan and hoping things go well, it's a plausible method of rendering Kei's attack irrelevant by reframing the interaction so that whether or not Hazou is intimidated doesn't matter.



I don't see either plan having any effect on how socially oblivious Hazou is in either direction, tbh. I infer from this remark that you think my plan will make him more so, but I fail to see how (or rather, I suspect that how you think that will happen is premised on an argument I don't believe).



While I would rather he not go down at all (hence my Kei section), I do agree with your sentiment here, which is why I included your Jiraiya section.
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Okay then. We seem to just disagree here on implementations, which is not exactly a major problem. I'll concede this argument for now in the interests of colloborative planmaking and general epicness, but if we have more data from this venture to inform our opinions, we can update and revise.

While I would most prefer we dont do it exactly this way, I would rather do it than not. I'll keep all the variations up though, since I think theres something to be said for how they all individually handle this a bit differently.

A decent portion of me would also like to cut to the tourny, so I'll keep that vote.
 
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Like this post if you'd rather have this scene with only Kei, Hug it if you'd rather it with only Jiraiya, Informative it if both.
 
Apparently there's lots of fighting arguing heated debate going on.

I'm going to start looking at the plans ordered by vote count descending.

Tired, so effort is hard. Don't expect great analysis.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Dissonance on Nov 19, 2018 at 1:42 PM, finished with 317 posts and 13 votes.
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[X] Training Plan: Wait

Because I don't like that the votes are so far apart. I'd rather people be able to change their minds on training plans more easily.
 
MadScientist said:
Alright.

Wordcount: 299

[x] Action Plan: The Power of Love to Go Even Further Beyond

  • Practicing KI with Kei:
    • Inform her we will project our own feelings.
    • Project outwards Hazou's own soul. Not a will to destroy, but to protect. Even under the terrifying pressure of Kei's KI, Hazou projects a warmth of (sibling!) love that will melt the ice and deliver her the spiritual and absolutely-not-physical hug she so clearly needs. If he's mentally sundered by the ice mirrors so be it, Kei's KI will not push away his support.
  • Grab an hour-ish of Jiraiya's time, alone, if possible.
    • Mindset: Mentally prepare for the most brutal thing you have ever experienced.
    • Ask him about Killing Intent.
      • What's the deal there?
    • Help us practice resisting it, please?
      • It's a critical vulnerability if some Jonin can incapacitate and kill us.
    • Ask Jiraiya to floor you with a bit of his KI as he is the scariest/strongest around.
      • Please don't accidentally kill us or break our minds though.
    • Now. Get. Up.
      • Mood: You Say Run.
      • You are Hazou Gouketsu, son of Hana and Shinji.
      • Just one man.
      • Jiraiya is also just one man.
      • If you can't stand against Jiraiya's will, how will you stand against the world itself?
      • Motivation: the countless thousands of innocent people barely surviving in this hellhole, their lives depend on it - on you.
      • Giving up isn't an option, never will be, as long as they're on the line.
      • By all the kami in heaven, you will Uplift this world.
      • Embrace the fiery passion of your ideals, forge your iron nerves to steel, and cast your defiance into the teeth of gods and men alike!
      • Stand. Raise your head high and look Jiraiya in the eye.
    • Repeat a few times.
      • Try to at least raise your head and look Jiraiya in the eye without hurting yourself.
    • Ask Jiraiya for intel on our competitors.
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I really really really like the basic theme going here.

Points of interest:

when is this happening? We're currently traveling to Mist at ninja speed and Jiraiya will probably not leave much in the way of idle time if he can. (Unknown element: Hyūga pulling some political bs if he finds an advantage to it?)

How much "alone, if possible" do we want? If Jiraiya says all non-immediate OPSEC stuff can wait until we're not traveling and that he isn't leaving Hyūga to his own devices for an hour, do we ask this in front of not only the rest of Team Uplift, but the rest of the Leaf Delegation, including Hyūga?

Will we practice the KI stuff with Keiko in front of the rest of the delegation? As written, this is up to the whims of simulationism.

I give 30-70 odds of this having any immediately beneficial effects, but I still abso-fucking-lutely want to do this.

Starting next plan thing.
 
Dissonance said:
when is this happening? We're currently traveling to Mist at ninja speed and Jiraiya will probably not leave much in the way of idle time if he can. (Unknown element: Hyūga pulling some political bs if he finds an advantage to it?)

How much "alone, if possible" do we want? If Jiraiya says all non-immediate OPSEC stuff can wait until we're not traveling and that he isn't leaving Hyūga to his own devices for an hour, do we ask this in front of not only the rest of Team Uplift, but the rest of the Leaf Delegation, including Hyūga?

Will we practice the KI stuff with Keiko in front of the rest of the delegation? As written, this is up to the whims of simulationism.
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Hmm. We could do these things upon arrival in Mist but before the fights start.
 
Cariyaga said:
[X] Training Plan: In Case of Emergency, Break the Hazou

This training plan is only to be enacted if an action plan is voted for that calls for Hazou to practice projecting his own variety of KI.

Stunt: Forged in Fire [25]
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I, uh.

Not a fan of this, right off the bat. A conditional plan that only runs if another plan wins? That basically means "do nothing".

If any other vote wins, that plan will go ahead, with no consideration for anything not in it.

If this one wins, the winning plan isn't one that calls for Hazō to practice KI, and therefore does nothing.

Uh.

Hm.


Onward
 
Dissonance said:
I, uh.

Not a fan of this, right off the bat. A conditional plan that only runs if another plan wins? That basically means "do nothing".

If any other vote wins, that plan will go ahead, with no consideration for anything not in it.

If this one wins, the winning plan isn't one that calls for Hazō to practice KI, and therefore does nothing.

Uh.

Hm.


Onward
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This is a training plan (what to spend XP on), not an action plan (what to do).
 
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