TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
I agree. She was most certainly welcoming of the feeling of love and comfort she got from being around Ami, so there's precedent.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
- Location
- Huezil
Ami and Hazou are not the same person, and she would get extremely distressed if someone tried to do a impostor to emulate the same feelings.
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
We're not an imposter pretending to be Ami, don't be silly. We're someone else close to her who loves her as a sibling, and she seems to return the feeling. I brought up Ami as an example to demonstrate that Keiko isn't against the concept of feeling love and comfort in principle.
- Location
- Huezil
Have you looked the damn context? This isn't us being a sibling, this is a ninja trying to weaponize feelings.
Last edited:
That's, um... exactly what it is.
This is supposed to be the opposite of killing intent. Not just a mental hazard to temporarily impair someone, but an aura of actual feelings of compassion.
Last edited:
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
I did look at the context. Here is the text:
- Project outwards Hazou's own soul. Not a will to destroy, but to protect. Even under the terrifying pressure of Kei's KI, Hazou projects a warmth of (sibling!) love that will melt the ice and deliver her the spiritual and absolutely-not-physical hug she so clearly needs. If he's mentally sundered by the ice mirrors so be it, Kei's KI will not push away his support.
Last edited:
- Location
- Huezil
Them why do that against her Killing Intent, which as was being discussed is a utilized as psychological weapon meant to destabilize someone, lowering their moral and casting doubt on their abilities before moving to the kill?
That's the situation, that's how any ninja would understand that situation.
Essentially: KI is escalation, supposed to convince the other party that they're going to die and there's no escape. Anti-KI is de-escalation, meant to convey that no matter what the other party is doing or saying they still matter and will will still be loved.
It's the difference between "No, I'm scarier!" and "I don't care that you're scary, you're not pushing me away."
Last edited:
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
First, this is a deliberate practice session, not actually trying anything serious.
Second, we're not sending killing intent, we're sending something else. Something that isn't aggression and can't possibly be mistaken for it.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
The train has no brakes, folks.
@huhYeahGoodPoint
Hows that? I am not sure how to quite do "I AM HERE." justice. But maybe this is a good start.
Edits:
@huhYeahGoodPoint
Hows that? I am not sure how to quite do "I AM HERE." justice. But maybe this is a good start.
Edits:
Last edited:
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
The 'THIS IS HAZOU!' approach to resisting killing intent is interesting. I like it as an idea, and we should hold on to it. It might be a good approach against Jiraiya or other Jonin killing intent attacks.
However, I also really want to attempt the experiment of seeing if other emotions can be projected and for Keiko in particular I really want to try sending her love and acceptance in a way that won't trigger her haptophobia.
Think of it like this, without Forged in Fire, TYS is applied to Intimidation with the mindset of "I've lived through terrifying things and you don't even compare". With Forged in Fire, TYS is applied to Empathy and Rapport with the mindset of "I've lived through terrifying things and I won't let them hurt you too".
KI is to Intimidation-TYS what anti-KI is to Empathy/Rapport-TYS.
KI is to Intimidation-TYS what anti-KI is to Empathy/Rapport-TYS.
Last edited:
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
If I'm being honest I don't actually think projecting HOPE and LOVE is going to work. I just think that would be really funny to try and hilarious if it does. On a meta-level, this seems really silly, and I would bet twenty bucks that Velorien would just have this straight up not work. Like, come on folks, really?
I do think that Projecting "Hazou" would probably work. That seems to be all Kei is actually doing when she does this, just projecting herself outwards with chakra magic bullshit.
I do think that Projecting "Hazou" would probably work. That seems to be all Kei is actually doing when she does this, just projecting herself outwards with chakra magic bullshit.
- Location
- Huezil
"I've lived through terrifying things and I won't let them hurt you too".
That's a patronizing and infantilizing stance. Which is the same thing that @huhYeahGoodPoint said if my comprehension is right.
People don't need you to protect them, they need your support, because saying "I won't let them hurt you too" means you the biggest dog in the area, so before messing with them they need to mess with you.
That feel like pity and hijacking.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
You mean "TYS", right?
I have an essentially opposite view on the matter. I think that any projection of "Hazou" will be squashed like a bug, unable to stand against the icy power of Kei's KI. On the other hand, saying "Yes. You are scary. But that's not the point." May have some level of effectiveness.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Wordcounts for bonus XP
E: I would rather try the serious version now while we're being all serious about it in the Jiraiya section though.
I'd like to, but... wordcount. So I've got to support the one I think has any chance of working.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
The perspective I've had on all of this isn't quite that we're trying to develop anti-killing-intent so much as we're trying to develop a proto-Jounin-aura like Keiko has, except based on Hazou-ness and Uplift instead of Killing Intent like is normal.
Jounin auras come in all shapes and sizes, so it's not unreasonable for Hazou to in the fullness of time develop one based on his idealistic convictions and sheer grit and determination, and what we're doing here is just trying to jumpstart the process.
e: Such a Jounin aura is likely to involve feelings of comfort and hope (much like how Hiruzen gave off an aura of grandfatherly safety because his aura gives off the feeling that with him in the room everything is under his control), and that's the desired end goal but not quite how we're getting there.
Jounin auras come in all shapes and sizes, so it's not unreasonable for Hazou to in the fullness of time develop one based on his idealistic convictions and sheer grit and determination, and what we're doing here is just trying to jumpstart the process.
e: Such a Jounin aura is likely to involve feelings of comfort and hope (much like how Hiruzen gave off an aura of grandfatherly safety because his aura gives off the feeling that with him in the room everything is under his control), and that's the desired end goal but not quite how we're getting there.
Last edited:
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
FWIW I disagree 10000%.
This will work.
I don't think Hazou would blow a will save this badly. Not in that frame of mind.
I don't think trying to counter Kei's spooky bullshit with the pure power of positive thinking will work. You have to mean it.
Yeah, that's my read on the situation as well.
It's not a case of frame of mind. It's that Kei is just better at this than Hazou is. If you want to think of it in terms of narrative, Kei is memetically terrifying, while Hazou isn't memetically determinator (to the same degree). If you want to think of it as mechanics, Kei has Intimidation+TYS 32, while Hazou has Resolve 20.
I just can't see any way in which direct defiance will end well for Hazou.
It's not so much countering her KI, as it is sidestepping it. It's an acknowledgement that yes Keiko absolutely does scare him, but that isn't the point. And, as far as I can tell, Hazou does mean it.
Last edited:
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
@OliWhail seemed really excited about the projecting love and acceptance idea. Hopefully he'll write it.
As for 'I AM HAZOU' I'm thinking of it as building a sort of ego fortress, a sense of self, identity and purpose strong enough to stand up to any killing intent someone tries to project and crush him into hopelessness with.
Hazou might not have the stats to pull 'I AM HAZOU' off now, but this is just practice.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Okay, if you're going to argue by virtue of mechanics, then this is just not a worthwhile pursuit period. This just becomes dice rolls, so its not worth it at all to do, because we lose those flat out, no questions asked. I don't believe this is being mechanically modeled, or we would have seen rolls.
By virtue of characterization: That's not true. Hazou does plenty of things that would characterize him as a determinator. Implicitly and sometimes explicitly. OTOH: Keiko is merely memetically spooky. She has less in the way of deeds backing this up.
If anything is going to win the day, it's going to be his conviction in his ideals, not his ability to project squishy feelings at Keiko.
If you don't think this would actually work, then this is just devolves into a meme-vote. A very entertaining one and one that would be great to read, but it ultimately just becomes an update that serves no actual purpose at all beyond that.
If we're not going to take this seriously, lets just skip to the tourny.
[X]Proceed to the Tournament
Last edited:
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Perfectly willing to provide you the game it's from if you'd like.
---
Personally, I don't think it's appropriate to project "I am here." in the All Might-ish way to Keiko. Maybe as a way to fight off Jiraiya's KI, but that's not what would be remotely relevant to Keiko. My model of her considers it foolish naivete.
This is why I mentioned in discord that I thought the plan seemed like memeing. Also:
Honestly... I feel like you're expecting too much shounen out of this kid in a ratfic
Velorien rated that one. That said, it was in the conversation about Jiraiya, not Keiko. I think it's possible with the right wording we could do it with Keiko, but it's just kind of a waste of Jiraiya's time.
Keiko is very good at lying to herself when it comes to making herself look bad. You shouldn't be taking what she says about herself at face value.
CCNJ: I feel really awkward saying this stuff because I hate being That Guy but... this is MfD, not any other fic.