Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- Yes.
Clarification: This is the water density produced by tipserators, correct? Not the alcohol density?
With being under the porch giving us a better line of sight, we will probably be using a cone again.
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
Edited in post calculation to determine tipsiness copied here for visibility:
Edit: if we're about a percent, that means the air is about 40 parts per million alcohol.
Typical VC is ~ 6 Liters / minute (source), which means we're at about
Volume of air x molar volume of air = 6 Liters x 1 mol / 22.4 Liters = 0.267 Liters / minute = 0.00446 mols / second
Converting to alcohol ratio puts us at
0.00446 mols / second x 0.004144 (mols air / mols liquid) x 0.01 (alcohol percent) = 1.85 x 10 ^-7 mols of alcohol
Humans tend to have ~ 5 liters of blood which converts to
5 Liters blood x 55.5 mol/L = 277.5 mols
So, each second a ninja spends in the tipserator, they effectively add
1.85 x 10^-7 mols of alcohol, which is ~ 1.85 x ^-7 mols of alcohol / 277.5 mols of blood = 6.67E-10 ration of alcohol ~ 6.67E-8% alcohol
So, I think a ninja's Blood Alcohol Concentration would increase by about 1 E -7 % per second they spend in the tipersator. So, to reach a legally drunk (0.08 % blood alcohol concentration) limit, a ninja would need to stay in the misterator for ~ 0.08 / 1E-7 = 80,000 seconds.
Obviously, if a ninja is looking at the miserator and a bunch of it shoots up their nose, this is an entirely different story.
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- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
Then use the volume of a cone, v = h x pi x r^2 / 3.
If we assume h = 40 meters, and r = 20 meters, that puts us at
40 m x pi x (20m)^2 / 3 = 16,700 m^3, which is on the same order of magnitude as the above calculation, just a factor of 2 lower. In general, I always assume spherical cows when doing fermi calculations for the thread.
Tua
鸡肉面条汤
- Location
- شوربة الدجاج المعكرونة
So my initial assumption was that even if Nobby dosed everyone correctly that the best case scenario would be that every teen is intoxicated and adults are only slightly drunk.
But then Stupid Sexy Magic Chakra enters the equation. Namely, does being able to use chakra mean you burn through alcohol faster or are more resistant to it? You could make an arbitrary case for either option: The "chakra tubes" (???) are able to absorb and convert ethanol directly into energy/chakra or they can't and only the liver processes ethanol.
I think the best thing to do is Noburi's Med Skill roll + author fiat to determine the effects.
- Location
- Earth
Seems in line with that paper I posted:
- There are 14 grams of pure alcohol in 5 ounces of wine, which is typically about 12% alcohol
- Thus there are 14 grams of pure alcohol in 4 ounces of sake, which is typically about 15% alcohol--this is 120 grams per liter
- [OUT OF DATE]Now, visibility at ~1m needs 4g/m^3 of water (~= sake)
- Thus a pure sake tipserator is ~0.48g/m^3 of alcohol
- https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0015736886724584 says we need >>2g/m^3 of alcohol
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Doesn't this depend on how much alcohol is in the tipserator (or did I miss that bit)? Presumably, Noburi added enough alcohol to be at least mildly effective.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
That is accounted for I believe
Edit: At least on the order of like a percent.
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- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
@OliWhail said:
which is what I used.
If the tipersator was 100 % alcohol (stronger even than Sake), then we'd be closer to making someone legally drunk if they stay in the tipserator for 800 seconds (and your body does no flushing of alcohol).
So far as I can tell, the danger of the tipersator is the same as the danger of the misterator. Namely, if it goes up your nose while dispersing, you probably drown.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
*prepares for more retcons*
- Location
- Yes.
I mean, the calculations are for "legally drunk", but given a) we're talking about kids, not adults; and b) we're shooting for a bit lower than that to avoid vomiting and the lot, I think we'd make them "sufficiently drunk" with less time.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
"Legally drunk" is the lowest you can go as far as how drunk you are from a symptom standpoint.
Hopefully the fact that they should be fairly dehydrated and that they're kids swings us some mileage.
- Location
- Yes.
@Radvic's use of "legally drunk" means a BAC of .08%, but there are levels below that which I was referring to.
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
Uh, you do realize most people don't vomit until significantly more drunk than legally drunk right? Like, my primary difference at ~0.15% alcohol is that I start taunting people when I beat them at board games. Also, we're ~4-5 orders of magnitude away from getting someone legally drunk for the amount of time they'll be in the cloud, and I'm pretty sure kids vs adults will have, at most, a factor of 4 improvement, which still leaves us with ~4 order of magnitude to gain. Even if we'd used 100 % alcohol, we'd still be ~2 orders of magnitude away from being able to get someone drunk in seconds.
Our best bet towards making it work would be to use 100 % sake, and reduce the volume impacted by the Tipserator by a factor of ~100. This would give us a ~4 meter cone, but whoever we hit with it would get drunk in seconds.
The same thing which makes macerators so powerful as Fire-log explosives makes them weak as Tipserators.
Right, so the first "minor impairment of judgement" happens at 0.04 % BAC, which will take 40,000 seconds (or > 10 hours) to reach via our Tipserator.
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- Location
- Earth
"Exposure to ethanol vapour at the UK occupational exposure limit (1900 mg/m3) does not produce a significant blood alcohol concentration."
1900 mg/m3 ethanol = 4.1242×10^-5 mol/L (moles per liter) ==> 4.1242×10^-6 mol/sec
Per @Radvic, we get 1.85 x 10^-7 mol/sec
- Location
- Yes.
@Radvic Hate to be a bother, but would altering the force, particle size, or ejection velocity affect your calculations?
Tua
鸡肉面条汤
- Location
- شوربة الدجاج المعكرونة
Even then, Noburi would have said something if the strategy was not feasible or he really, really fudged his TN roll. I know this goes against the simulation aspect of the quest but I don't know how else to solve this without a retcon except by just handwaving it and saying the Tipserator is potent enough to get people drunk.
E: Henge makes you 800 times more susceptible to being because Chakra Magic.
E: Henge makes you 800 times more susceptible to being because Chakra Magic.
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- Location
- Earth
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
1) Blame it on henge
2) He added (poison, a mild sedative, something mysterious ) to the Tipserator to get us the desired effect after calling us an idiot.
I think its easier to deal with this by handwaving it away on Med Knowledge
I have to admit that until about a few days ago I was under the assumption that Misterators had a significantly denser output than an industrial-scale version of one of those fan/mist spray bottles. Perhaps a fatal error that we assumed that it would work as it did pre-retcon but we were advised to go forward with the plan anyway on pain of consequences so I don't think we would have been able to do anything in character.
My head doth hurt.
Edit: It also may raise some questions/sets some precedent about what exactly the IRL scientific basis and plausibility has to be before an idea can "work" mechnically. I don't think anyone wants to regularly sift through scientific journals to puzzle together whether a certain idea is actually plausible or not.
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- Location
- Potato land
I really don't even get what the point of these calculations is. The plan said the following:
Just roll his Medical Knowledge and be done with it. The plan did this exactly right - instead of specifying a concentration and running into problems with that being wrong, or not accounting for ninja metabolism, or whatever, it left the specifics to the character. So the effects now depend on what the character did, which has a clear mechanical interpretation under FtD. I really don't see why we need to create a problem where there is none.
And I say this as someone who would be relieved if the Tipserator didn't do anything. Let's just get past the quagmire of bullshit this event has become for both players and QMs.
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
Uh, that's, like, a solid 50% of the enjoyment I get out of this thread.
Not really, only impact would be how inhaling it during deployment works, but I'm pretty sure based on misterator use in the past, we're assuming it's negligable. If someone wants to solve the fluid equations to figure that out, go ahead (I won't have time for that sort of significant calculation until Thursday evening at the earliest).