Remove ads

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Reader mode
faflec said:
I mean, we're targeting them with our other plans, right?

...

*checks plan*

ah.jpg

...eh, Hazou should be smart enough to realize that we want to target them in particular.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean... ugh. Maybe have Akane bait him into the hedges where Team Uplift and Team Clanless are waiting?
 
Problems I have with the existing plan:
  • In case of trouble, sheds suspicion on Leaf
    • An attack coming from outside the mass of ninja will likely be attributed to ninja not accounted for in the mass of ninja (as opposed to an attack from within the mass of ninja)
  • Unnecessary exposure
    • Reveals full head of Hazou rather than just hand
  • Initial release risk
    • Without Living Roots, risks Hazou emerging on top of a ninja, or just misjudging where the porch is since he's effectively blind while Hiding Like a Mole
  • Inefficient Tipersator coverage
    • Ignores any potential targeting of Tipersator, failing to optimize for delivery
Altogether, these things strike me as insufficient planning for likely threat vectors (Leaf is implicated by the Tipserator attack, Hazou misjudges where the porch is) while overfocusing on unlikely threat vectors (a ninja happens to be looking underground) and failing to optimize (targeted Tipersator firing) the payoff provided by the risk of firing a tipersator. Ultimately, it reads very strongly to me as an attempt to mitigate risk so hard that it removes most of the benefit and actually increases risk because it fails to procactively avoid Leaf being implicated.

That said, I don't really have the time to write a better one, and my suggestions to solve the above issues were dismissed, so I'm just going to post this and go to bed.
 
Last edited:
Radvic said:
Problems I have with the existing plan:
  • In case of trouble, sheds suspicion on Leaf
    • An attack coming from outside the mass of ninja will likely be attributed to ninja not accounted for in the mass of ninja (as opposed to an attack from within the mass of ninja)
  • Unnecessary exposure
    • Reveals full head of Hazou rather than just hand
  • Initial release risk
    • Without Living Roots, risks Hazou emerging on top of a ninja, or just misjudging where the porch is since he's effectively blind while Hiding Like a Mole
  • Inefficient Tipersator coverage
    • Ignores any potential targeting of Tipersator, failing to optimize for delivery
Altogether, these things strike me as insufficient planning for likely threat vectors (Leaf is implicated by the Tipserator attack, Hazou misjudges where the porch is) while overfocusing on unlikely threat vectors (a ninja happens to be looking underground) and failing to optimize (targeted Tipersator firing) the payoff provided by the risk of firing a tipersator. Ultimately, it reads very strongly to me as an attempt to mitigate risk so hard that it removes most of the benefit and actually increases risk because it fails to procactively avoid Leaf being implicated.

That said, I don't really have the time to write a better one, and my suggestions to solve the above issues were dismissed, so I'm just going to post this and go to bed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I would love to address these issues, but it is too late and I am too sleepy to reasonably write them out, and I would be very uncomfortable changing the plan without other voters' go-ahead given that.
e:
Cariyaga said:
Not sure that's a good idea. He's one of the ones who chased us out of Hot Springs and tried to track us down. They have our blood scent.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
On the other hand, Hazou has all the information he needs to put together that they're the ones that chased us, so he can report that to Jiraiya.
 
Last edited:
Radvic said:
Problems I have with the existing plan:
  • In case of trouble, sheds suspicion on Leaf
    • An attack coming from outside the mass of ninja will likely be attributed to ninja not accounted for in the mass of ninja (as opposed to an attack from within the mass of ninja)
  • Unnecessary exposure
    • Reveals full head of Hazou rather than just hand
  • Initial release risk
    • Without Living Roots, risks Hazou emerging on top of a ninja, or just misjudging where the porch is since he's effectively blind while Hiding Like a Mole
  • Inefficient Tipersator coverage
    • Ignores any potential targeting of Tipersator, failing to optimize for delivery
Altogether, these things strike me as insufficient planning for likely threat vectors (Leaf is implicated by the Tipserator attack, Hazou misjudges where the porch is) while overfocusing on unlikely threat vectors (a ninja happens to be looking underground) and failing to optimize (targeted Tipersator firing) the payoff provided by the risk of firing a tipersator. Ultimately, it reads very strongly to me as an attempt to mitigate risk so hard that it removes most of the benefit and actually increases risk because it fails to procactively avoid Leaf being implicated.

That said, I don't really have the time to write a better one, and my suggestions to solve the above issues were dismissed, so I'm just going to post this and go to bed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Personal opinions on the above:
  • STL will likely cover for us for the same reason they did in the retcon'd update.
  • Hazou is protected by the head covering.
  • I'm not 100% on what the mansion looks like, but what's stopping Hazou from just hugging the mansion from underground to reach the porch?
  • Targeting by putting yourself directly under a (read: stressed out) ninja is kinda risky in my book.
 
Clarification requests:

1) As @Radvic points out, Hazō can't sense anything above the surface. How does he intend to safely get beneath the porch?

Edit: @faflec already had this covered.

2) What do you intend to do about Team Kurenai? You made Team Asuma buy information about the plan, and Akane presumably told Clanless. What's your response if Kurenai ask?
 
Last edited:
Velorien said:
Just a reminder that the Iron Nerve has no mental indexing powers. If you want to recall a certain movement sequence using the Iron Nerve, you have to physically reproduce it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I am confused. If Hazou needs to reproduce the motion in order to recall it, how is that any different from any random baseline?

There has to be some level of mental indexing for there to be any use to iron nerve at all. It has to, at minimum, act as a corrective mechanism.

Look at expressions for instance. People with iron nerve 'record' some version of a smile, and then when they reproduce it approximately the bloodline kicks turns that approximation into a perfect reproduction. That property, of correcting/refining an approximate motion, is a type of mental indexing.

For this version to work it also needs some way to chain motions and recall sequences of motions. Take Hazou reproducing some writing. He has written each of those words a dozen times in a dozen different ways, but he can reproduce a specific sequence of words perfectly, with each of the idiosyncrasies interact. That means Iron Nerve has to have some form of sequence memory, where the corrections it provides are based on the motions you made in the past.

You could turn that into a lookup/storage system easily. For instance, consider this (inefficient and impractical) protocol which serves as a proof of concept:
  • An iron nerve user has a sequence of 0s and 1s
  • They encode this sequence into a motion where they move a finger left for 0 and right for 1, returning the finger to the middle after each bit.
  • Later, Hazou reproduces the first part of the sequence.
  • From then on, each time Hazou's finger returns to the center position iron nerve will give a little push to correct the motion towards the left or right.
  • Hazou feels for the little push and follows it, letting iron nerve guide him to the next stored bit.
  • He can include other header sequences in the body of the message, and use those as hyperlinks to lookup some other data.
Alternately, instead of approximately replicating a motion and having iron nerve correct it, the bloodline could index on memories. So in order to replicate a motion Hazou has to be able to recall some instance where he performed it. In order to do that backstory jump of his the one that used an updraft to jump a really hard gap, Hazou had to recall the last time he completed that motion and tell his bloodline "do that again".

This is also a lookup system, and can be be easily explored with memory techniques:
  • Hazou picks a random weird mental image, like "the raikage flossing with a live octopus' tentacle", and holds it in his head while writing something down.
  • Later he can use that mental image, just like with a memory palace, to prompt iron nerve to reproduce what he wrote.
  • If what he writes references other mental images, he can use those as hyperlinks.
  • This would be like a much more efficient version of modern memory enhancement techniques.
Iron nerve has to have some form of lookup and mental indexing if you want a bloodline ninja to be more capable than a baseline ninja.

Hell, the schemes I gave above are just minimal working examples. Any method you choose has to have some form of indexing and whatever it is I could come up with a much more powerful way to munchkin the lookup power.

(Oh and all this is before I get to how Iron Nerve has to run certain computations in the background for Roki to work. Admittedly that's harder to munchkin since you can't change the algorithms IN is running, even if IN is running an algorithm.)

Edit: I just realized that a fully developed version of any of these schemes has to be called "Hazou's Tactile Memory Lookup". :V
 
Last edited:
Jello_Raptor said:
I am confused. If Hazou needs to reproduce the motion in order to recall it, how is that any different from any random baseline?

There has to be some level of mental indexing for there to be any use to iron nerve at all. It has to, at minimum, act as a corrective mechanism.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think you're misinterpreting my statement. I am simply highlighting the fact that while Iron Nerve stores information perfectly, it stores it as muscle movements. If Hazō uses Iron Nerve memorisation on a binary sequence that he doesn't already know off by heart, that sequence is in his muscles, not his head (so to speak). If he wants to recall it, he has to do so by triggering the sequence and observing what his body does, rather than having a directly accessible mental library.
 
Velorien said:
2) What do you intend to do about Team Kurenai? You made Team Asuma buy information about the plan, and Akane presumably told Clanless. What's your response if Kurenai ask?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I suppose we could tell them our plan in exchange for having Hinata help with it through her Byakugan.
 
Velorien said:
"We will tell you what we're doing if you agree in advance to help us with it"?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Maybe less that and more like:

"We have this plan whose goal is to do <x> and your Byakugan would be invaluable to help optimize it. There is little risk for you since you can do it from here."

If they agree, give them more details about it. In theory it would sense to tell them anyway, since one of the next steps is to build up the alliance so being forthcoming with information would be consistent with that but I will leave that decision up to the other people who voted for the plan.

E: Now I have this weird thought how asking Hinata for help in the wrong way is somehow going to turn into a Total Party Kill.
 
Last edited:
@Cariyaga I'm going to spend 5 minutes looking through comments with the plan printed out to see if theres anything needed.

I think maybe extra contingencies at best or some menial things that dont effect the actual structure or timeline of the execution of the idea.
 
Tua said:
E: Now I have this weird thought how asking Hinata for help in the wrong way is somehow going to turn into a Total Party Kill.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
More likely it'll come across as a snub to the others. Assuming I need to, I'll get Hinata to help with Byakugan. Oh, and all of them, collectively, are there to serve as Hazou's alibi.
 
@Cariyaga judging by the above conversation there may be some last minute contingencies to throw in.(faflecs bulletpoints maybe?)

It looks like

1)

Step 0:

0. Quickly tie up some loose ends (this does not need to be in a scene)
  • (Suggest to Keiko, the following is contingent upon her approval) Keiko will quickly ask Team Kurenai for a buy in , in exchange for information about the plan (as much information as you told Team Asuma; Standard OPSEC applies on techniques, be vague about mechanics of how and focus on the what )
    • You don't have time for haggling so its take it or leave it (the exchange below is reasonable)
    • If they agree, then quickly explain details while you get the buy in.
    • In the form of a meager cost of chakra from both Shino and Kiba. (Don't specify how much, they may be generous.)
    • Hinata can help us scout out the grounds quickly with the Byakugan and suggest optimal travel path for Hazou underground to the necessary spot under the mansion.
    • If they don't agree, oh well.
  • Hazou will quickly debrief Keiko (maybe Shikamaru too;with orders to tell everyone else after he leaves) on a possible cover story
    • We noticed the heat, determined it was some form of attack and grouped up for safety.
      • If I return before proctors then I was here all along.
      • If I return after proctors then I left to go scout out the situation
Please add in 1.1 "Hazou will use hiding like a mole to move under the porch.." -> "Hazou will use hiding like a mole to move under the porch (hugging the mansion underground if necessary)..."

I think that covers all of the major points brought up and introduces them to the plan in a non disruptive manner but please someone confirm that for me.

Edit: At least in the last like 20 comments or so that seems to be the only issue. I think these are somewhat minor points though in all honesty, I would expect Hazou to do the hugging underground thing for example if he wasnt 100% sure of his mental model of the grounds . The cover story shit is in there but its literally just a quick summary of what our overall cover story plan was before we did this plan last time.
 
Last edited:
MMKII said:
@Cariyaga judging by the above conversation there may be some last minute contingencies to throw in.(faflecs bulletpoints maybe?)

It looks like

1)

Step 0:

0. Quickly tie up some loose ends (this does not need to be in a scene)
  • Hazou will quickly ask Team Kurenai for a buy in , in exchange for information about the plan (as much information as you told Team Asuma)
    • You don't have time for haggling so its take it or leave it (the exchange below is reasonable)
    • If they agree, then quickly explain details while you get the buy in.
    • In the form of a meager cost of chakra,say 5CP from both Shino and Kiba
    • Hinata can help us scout out the grounds quickly with the Byakugan and suggest optimal travel path for Hazou underground to the necessary spot under the mansion.
    • If they don't agree, oh well.
  • Hazou will quickly debrief Keiko (maybe Shikamaru too;with orders to tell everyone else after he leaves) on a possible cover story
    • We noticed the heat, determined it was some form of attack and grouped up for safety.
      • If I return before proctors then I was here all along.
      • If I return after proctors then I left to go scout out the situation
Please add in 1.1 "Hazou will use hiding like a mole to move under the porch.." -> "Hazou will use hiding like a mole to move under the porch (hugging the mansion underground if necessary)..."

I think that covers all of the major points brought up and introduces them to the plan in a non disruptive manner but please someone confirm that for me.

Edit: At least in the last like 20 comments or so that seems to be the only issue. I think these are somewhat minor points though in all honesty, I would expect Hazou to do the hugging underground thing for example if he wasnt 100% sure of his mental model of the grounds . The cover story shit is in there but its literally just a quick summary of what our overall cover story plan was before we did this plan last time.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'll add that either before I pass out again or as soon as someone else agrees to it.

If it didn't have all the notes of a last-second-flub, I'd consider asking Shino to pop a few high scorers' henges.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top