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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Briefvoice said:
Addendum:

This whole fort idea, wow, it can go one of two ways.

1. The point isn't so much to keep anyone out, as to have a set of walls and trapped ground that we're all familiar with and that Leaf genin can fight around to their own advantage. This would be easy to represent mechanically and easy to build. This would have my vote!

2. The point of the fort is to somehow use seal magic to install invulnerable walls that are overhead, underfoot, and on every side that literally cannot be broken through and in the event of an attack, turtle up and leave them pounding futilely unable to enter or hurt the team. But if we screw it up and they do get in, then you have 15 people trapped in a cramped area where it's basically impossible to really dodge and an explosive or area effect jutsu can kill everyone in a single attack. I think this is a terrible idea, but it seems to be what the planners of the thread desperately want to achieve. Myself, I don't have nearly that level of faith in the invulnerability of 5BS. For all we know there's some weakness to it we haven't found yet that will allow it to be defeated. Like... maybe a vibration attack that travels through the barrier and causes the anchor seal to tear itself apart. I dunno... I just would rather have the PC able to fight the way he wants to fight, rather than depend on the invulnerability of a seal and die if he overlooked something.
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I think the point is mostly 1, and the additional fortifications are there to prevent the enemy from controlling our movement with long-range attacks too easily. We shouldn't just box ourselves in, but in the retconned Chapter 162, we were basically forced to move out haphazardly, and didn't have time to organize ourselves. If the fort can hold against area denial attacks for maybe 10-20 seconds, we'll have enough time for Neji to call out enemy positions and our leader to give our orders. This also gives us a safe position to fall back towards, to store our wounded, and so forth.

There's little point in preparing an advantageous position if we can be forced out of it easily.
 
I support the idea of a thread pin that someone updates every so often to contain the latest tally.

That way it's a convenient rallying punt of plan makers and voters. All the important plans easily accessible.
 
MEW has a thing where you can cast it more slowly to save on chakra - I had thought that was in the player-accessible version, sorry guys. Let me go see about making sure things are updated, because that should definitely be a thing you guys can see.
 
Briefvoice said:
BRIEFVOICE COMMENTARY: Note that the biggest issue I see with this is that the fort is likely to take up most of the viable "dry ground" area on whatever high ground island we pick, so I'm not sure how well traps will work when anchored in essentially swamp water. How does that even work? I don't know.

Comments from other players?
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Sentient Tree said:
For putting down traps, there should be sticks and small bushes all over the place, right? We could put seals on bushes or sticks that are sticking out of the water, or put some sturdier sticks down (with one end embedded in the mud and the other reaching out of the water), hide them among the bushes, and put seals on those.
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Just putting it out there again that we don't need to MEW the area we put traps in. Even better, since @faflec mentioned waterproof seals, we can have a bunch of those while also planting seals out of the water as decoys. Maybe it would give an aspect to the traps, like (Didn't See That One Coming) or something.
 
OliWhail said:
MEW has a thing where you can cast it more slowly to save on chakra - I had thought that was in the player-accessible version, sorry guys. Let me go see about making sure things are updated, because that should definitely be a thing you guys can see.
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Oh no, it's there. It's just that the base cast time (a few seconds, IIRC) is 59CP per cast.
 
OliWhail said:
MEW has a thing where you can cast it more slowly to save on chakra - I had thought that was in the player-accessible version, sorry guys. Let me go see about making sure things are updated, because that should definitely be a thing you guys can see.
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Ah, I forgot about that. Yeah, we probably won't have chakra problems from building a base any more, but I'm not entirely sure it's reasonable for using MEW in combat to cost 59 chakra.

For reference, the relevant parts of the time ladder and how much chakra cost reduction it is:

  • Seconds

  • Half a minute (-2)

  • A minute (-6)

  • Several minutes (-12)

  • 10 minutes (-20)

  • Half an hour (-30)

  • An hour (-42)

  • A few hours (-54)
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MadScientist said:
So we can take half an hour and only pay 29 chakra? That's not too bad.
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Or take 3 hours and pay 5. Unsure how it'll interact with the mass rules. Also unsure of when the chakra will be payed: upfront and then a "channel", or over the duration? If it's over the duration then we can do it pretty slow and easy.
 
Briefvoice said:
BRIEFVOICE COMMENTARY: Note that the biggest issue I see with this is that the fort is likely to take up most of the viable "dry ground" area on whatever high ground island we pick, so I'm not sure how well traps will work when anchored in essentially swamp water. How does that even work? I don't know.
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Personally, I don't envision there being nearly this much high ground, but it's not a thing I've explicitly discussed with @OliWhail or @Velorien, so maybe they disagree. This is why, when you originally had no design for the fort, I created a square platform with curtain walls -- even that was stretching the chakra supply, but it was vaguely plausible. What you're trying to do now, building what is essentially a medieval European hill fort, seems pretty unlikely but I'm trying to roll with it. Again, haven't had a chance to discuss with the others.

A third thing we need to discuss is how the other genin are going to react. The idea of turtling up like this is antithetical to every tactical plan taught in every ninja school in the EN, so they may not want to follow you in. (For the record: the reason it's antithetical is because ninja abilities vary so wildly, and there are so many uncommon jutsu, that you can never anticipate all the attacks and most defenses can be trivially bypassed.)
 
eaglejarl said:
Personally, I don't envision there being nearly this much high ground, but it's not a thing I've explicitly discussed with @OliWhail or @Velorien, so maybe they disagree. This is why, when you originally had no design for the fort, I created a square platform with curtain walls -- even that was stretching the chakra supply, but it was vaguely plausible. What you're trying to do now, building what is essentially a medieval European hill fort, seems pretty unlikely but I'm trying to roll with it. Again, haven't had a chance to discuss with the others.

A third thing we need to discuss is how the other genin are going to react. The idea of turtling up like this is antithetical to every tactical plan taught in every ninja school in the EN, so they may not want to follow you in. (For the record: the reason it's antithetical is because ninja abilities vary so wildly, and there are so many uncommon jutsu, that you can never anticipate all the attacks and most defenses can be trivially bypassed.)
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Would there be a general tactical idea for turtling up taught in ninja school that we the players are unaware of? Just in case there's a default way to do this that we're not even considering

@OliWhail @Velorien
 
eaglejarl said:
Personally, I don't envision there being nearly this much high ground, but it's not a thing I've explicitly discussed with @OliWhail or @Velorien, so maybe they disagree. This is why, when you originally had no design for the fort, I created a square platform with curtain walls -- even that was stretching the chakra supply, but it was vaguely plausible. What you're trying to do now, building what is essentially a medieval European hill fort, seems pretty unlikely but I'm trying to roll with it. Again, haven't had a chance to discuss with the others.

A third thing we need to discuss is how the other genin are going to react. The idea of turtling up like this is antithetical to every tactical plan taught in every ninja school in the EN, so they may not want to follow you in. (For the record: the reason it's antithetical is because ninja abilities vary so wildly, and there are so many uncommon jutsu, that you can never anticipate all the attacks and most defenses can be trivially bypassed.)
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TBF if we spend 1hr per wall we'd only spend 17CP, which is a lot less than 59CP. And also Shikamaru/Paneru may be able to help.

Side note: Could we have those MEW specs, specifically on dimension limitations and whether or not it gains anything per level?
 
Hm. We could always go with a plan more like, get Leaf nin to come together with the fort, then have Panashe scent out those ninja she found before and move to trade with them, changing locations frequently that way?
 
So Neji and Kiba will kick up a stink. Okay.

We can work around this. An indestructible fort is actually a good defence, so Shikamaru will probably be convinced, and we can leverage that to get the support of the others. If we convince enough people then the dissenters will stick to the group with maybe 75% probability.
 
Cariyaga said:
Hm. We could always go with a plan more like, get Leaf nin to come together with the fort, then have Panashe scent out those ninja she found before and move to trade with them, changing locations frequently that way?
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I thought the plan was for them to come to us?

I'd also like to suggest that we have the fort be a dud and have us be camped several miles away, with a small team rotating into the fort to give the appearance of it being our main base.
MadScientist said:
We can work around this. An indestructible fort is actually a good defence, so Shikamaru will probably be convinced, and we can leverage that to get the support of the others. If we convince enough people then the dissenters will stick to the group with maybe 75% probability.
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The issue is not that the fort is indestructible. The issue is that the fort is not impenetrable.
 
eaglejarl said:
Personally, I don't envision there being nearly this much high ground, but it's not a thing I've explicitly discussed with @OliWhail or @Velorien, so maybe they disagree. This is why, when you originally had no design for the fort, I created a square platform with curtain walls -- even that was stretching the chakra supply, but it was vaguely plausible. What you're trying to do now, building what is essentially a medieval European hill fort, seems pretty unlikely but I'm trying to roll with it. Again, haven't had a chance to discuss with the others.

A third thing we need to discuss is how the other genin are going to react. The idea of turtling up like this is antithetical to every tactical plan taught in every ninja school in the EN, so they may not want to follow you in. (For the record: the reason it's antithetical is because ninja abilities vary so wildly, and there are so many uncommon jutsu, that you can never anticipate all the attacks and most defenses can be trivially bypassed.)
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Maybe we could could listen to their arguments, think for a bit, and then (if Shikamaru also thinks it's a bad idea) say "yeah, good point, that was a really bad idea." Then we can run around trading or knocking over individual teams willy nilly.

Edit:
Or just have the fort be a cheap decoy.
 
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faflec said:
Same problem: either we suffocate due to airtight 5SB'd MEW walls or they drown us using the air holes we're using.
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We have tunneler's friends. Or failing that, storage seals filled with fresh air in wooden crates.

E: OR! We put tiny air holes at the very bottom of one wall. Not enough space to get lots of water through quickly, and if they do try getting water through, it won't go very high. Also put purifiers angled to catch poisons they try to get through.
 
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