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It's intended to be used in combination with the Thread Pins I mentioned, which would in concert hopefully get more people involved in planning. More people involved, generally, means better plans.
I express concern whether or not it would actually result in higher player involvement, but do not have any particular evidence for said concern aside from cynicism.

Speaking of planning, though...

@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail Do you mind if we make edits to the current plan?
 
It's intended to be used in combination with the Thread Pins I mentioned, which would in concert hopefully get more people involved in planning. More people involved, generally, means better plans.

The plans being posted in-thread is, so far, the lowest barrier of entry for reading and commenting on plans that I've seen achieved. I suspect that even with Thread Pins in play, fewer people would go all the way to an external site to see the plan. There is also the fact that our plans can be large and imposing, likely creating the impression for some readers that the task of working on plans as big as that beyond their league, and I feel like that would only be exaggerated by using a special platform specifically for planning.

In-thread plans are straightforward and within every reader's expectations, allowing people to look at the plans with no special effort of any kind, and I think we're best served staying within that window.
 
The plans being posted in-thread is, so far, the lowest barrier of entry for reading and commenting on plans that I've seen achieved. I suspect that even with Thread Pins in play, fewer people would go all the way to an external site to see the plan. There is also the fact that our plans can be large and imposing, likely creating the impression for some readers that the task of working on plans as big as that beyond their league, and I feel like that would only be exaggerated by using a special platform specifically for planning.

In-thread plans are straightforward and within every reader's expectations, allowing people to look at the plans with no special effort of any kind, and I think we're best served staying within that window.
Part of the reason I'm suggesting google docs is because it's easier to have pinned -- although I'm still unsure if that's even a possibility. I'd be okay with having all the plans in spoilers in the pinned post as well, though.
 
To be honest, plans in this quest are a mess. I'm not really sure how to solve it while keeping everyone satisfied, though I feel like I can well identify several of its problems. From what I can tell, we're effectively try to play an in person table-top game through the forum structure, which doesn't really work great, at least, not if we also want to have updates of reasonable length and quality, while also having the detailed level of control that players want.

Using google docs will reduce the number of people who read plans (pretty sure you lose over half your audience by putting it behind a click barrier), which is a big problem for us in terms of fixing the mistakes we actually need to fix. Similarly, long plans have the same problem -- I know I didn't read the winning plan, I hit the first spoiler button, saw it more than doubled the text, and there was a nested spoiler, and nope'd my way to waiting until Sunday to see what happened from it.

Obviously the biggest thing which will help is having plot restart and people caring more about the quest.
 
To be honest, plans in this quest are a mess. I'm not really sure how to solve it while keeping everyone satisfied, though I feel like I can well identify several of its problems. From what I can tell, we're effectively try to play an in person table-top game through the forum structure, which doesn't really work great, at least, not if we also want to have updates of reasonable length and quality, while also having the detailed level of control that players want.
Part of the problem is that what's obvious-to-us isn't obvious-to-the-QMs or obvious-to-Hazou/Team Uplift. For instance:

I remember exactly when this whole "plans are a mess" thing started. It was when Kouta tried to frame Akane back in Mountain. We thought it was obvious that Mari would be around during sparring to keep an eye on things. It turned out that it wasn't, so from then on out we used exacting detail, for better or worse -- often worse, but it's an effort to make ourselves understood.

Something that might help in the "make ourselves understood" front would be, like, maybe the QMs getting on for 20 minutes onto discord before they start writing to clarify things? I'm not sure. That might be asking a bit much with scheduling, but it's something I've considered before.

e: That is, as opposed to "exacting detail in plans". More of a dialogue would probably help there.
 
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I express concern whether or not it would actually result in higher player involvement, but do not have any particular evidence for said concern aside from cynicism.

Speaking of planning, though...

@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail Do you mind if we make edits to the current plan?
Feel free. If I might suggest, one thing that could use some work is the fort design. I couldn't make heads or tails of it. I see two approaches: give a diagram of what you want or give 5-6 bullet points that outline what you're trying to achieve and let the QMs figure something out.
 
Feel free. If I might suggest, one thing that could use some work is the fort design. I couldn't make heads or tails of it. I see two approaches: give a diagram of what you want or give 5-6 bullet points that outline what you're trying to achieve and let the QMs figure something out.
(JK) Plan: our fort design objectives!
1. Indestructible
2. Protects us from anything our potential enemies can send at us.
3. Allows us to strike back at attackers without risking ourselves.
4. Allows us to trade seals with anyone who wants to, and gives us aspects that help with negotiation (intimidating doom fortress?).
5. Contains a proctor who has been tied down inside the fort so he can't escape. And a popcorn machine.
6. Is Kagome approved. With NO screaming whatsoever. In fact, he looked at this thing and broke down sobbing with joy. And then hugged it.

Actually, it giving an aspect to social rolls is probably a real goal we actually want.
 
(JK) Plan: our fort design objectives!
1. Indestructible
2. Protects us from anything our potential enemies can send at us.
3. Allows us to strike back at attackers without risking ourselves.
4. Allows us to trade seals with anyone who wants to, and gives us aspects that help with negotiation (intimidating doom fortress?).
5. Contains a proctor who has been tied down inside the fort so he can't escape. And a popcorn machine.
6. Is Kagome approved. With NO screaming whatsoever. In fact, he looked at this thing and broke down sobbing with joy. And then hugged it.

Actually, it giving an aspect to social rolls is probably a real goal we actually want.
I mean, we can do three of those pretty easily. Hell, might even be able to do the "strike at attackers" thing with use of air domes.
 
Here is the fort plan:

  • The Fort:
    • Involvement:
      • Hazou/Shikamaru are likely involved in building the fortifications.
      • Have high-Alertness/engineers (Paneru) help build/check/approve the fort.
      • If Pangolins/allied Leaf-nin have jutsu/skills to aid construction, let them help.
    • Location: Put the Fort near the edge of the Swamp of Mild Inconvenience.
      • Ideally the Fort should be close enough to the edge such that we can retreat to outside the Swamp quickly.
      • If possible the Fort should be situated near where we go at the end of the exam.
      • Put us on the high ground.
    • Foundations: Use ninjutsu to form an Earth floor/walls to form a Fort with 3 walls (triangular).
      • Fort should be large enough to comfortably accommodate up to 15 people.
      • Minimize chakra usage when building walls. If Practice Brick costs less chakra to form the wall use it instead of MEW.
      • Create an entrance/exit point large enough for ONLY one person to enter at a time.
        • To avoid spending hours digging through granite, create this passage ahead of time and then use ninjutsu over it.
      • Walls need only be strong enough to stay upright under their own power.
        • If possible provide space for battlements (ranged fighters).
      • Floor must rise up above water level.
        • If reasonable, have a small puddle of water leading to outside for Noburi's VD to interact with the outside.
      • Place a large cloth over the fort, as a roof.
    • Fortifications:
      • Apply Five-Seal Barrier to floor, walls, and cloth-roof.
        • First apply mud over them so 5SB registers them as separate objects.
        • Place central/supporting seals inside the base if at all possible.
        • As possible attach a removal mechanism to the central seal if we need to remove a part (e.g., for the Kagome Maneuver).
      • Apply Air Dome seal to entrance.
      • Apply additional defenses to VD-puddle as applicable.
      • Put some simple cover up in case someone somehow gets an explosive into our base. Prepped Air Domes or MEW or something.
    • Secret Tunnel:
      • Have a Pangolin use Earth Release: Tunnel Excavation for an escape route.
      • Other side of the tunnel should be covered up like all hell.
      • Apply traps/Alarm seals as in The Perimeter.
      • Have a serious discussion with Paneru regarding tunnel integrity and strengthening the tunnel against enemy action (collapse).
  • The Perimeter:
    • Who: Have our best trap-makers (read: allied ninjas/Pangolins with high Craftsmanship: Trapmaking) make traps.
      • Use maneuvers to create Aspects for trap-making (e.g., have high-Awareness allies like Neji/Hinata check traps to make an Aspect).
      • Take advantage of circumstance modifiers (e.g., everyone familiarizes themselves with terrain to create "Familiar Terrain" tag).
      • Ask what (non-lethal) traps our allies can make, and add them to the list.
    • The surroundings:
      • Destroy good sources of cover and tall trees (height advantage) with explosive tags.
      • Make note of trees/deep water/land for trap placement.
    • Making traps:
      • Location:
        • Spread traps among 3-5 layers around the perimeter of the fort.
        • Take advantage of natural hiding spots (e.g., reeds, small trees...).
        • Have plans for underwater/underground traps.
    • Trap types:
      • LBF payloads as claymores/various mechanical traps (as done here).
      • Contact/proximity explosive tags to underwater/underground mines.
      • Remote-detonation payloads with detonation location inside our base.
      • Prep Kagome Maneuvers to the fort walls.
  • Other:
    • Attach long-term light sources to ninja wire and connect them from the fort to the edge of the trap line. Should lower Stealth in case of ambush at night.
    • Carve signs warning other ninjas of the traps and the terms of trading. Place them at the edges of the trap line.
    • As possible make shadow sources for Shikamaru's bloodline to use. Let him lead this since it's a clan jutsu and OPSEC stuff.

EDIT Before Posting:

So QMs, a big portion of this plan is based on the idea that it's possible to stretch a cloth over the top of the fort, apply a Five Barrier Seal to it, and make an effectively impassable roof that can't be broken through or set on fire. If this is possible, the fort has the potentially to be turned into a viable turtle shell that can't actually be broken through. If a cloth roof reinforced by 5BS is not possible, please let us know how and we can plan under the considerably different assumption that this is just a set of walls we will be fighting around but the walls will pose only a minor obstacle to ninja jumping over them.

5BS Cloth Roof... Yay or Nay????

Let me try translating the fort plan.

Who is making rolls for the fort
If the QMs need to roll dice or consider Aspects to determine the mechanical strength of the fort, consider that Hazou, Shikamaru, Paneru, are involved and pertinent jutsu/skills may also be tapped from other Leaf genin.

Where is the Fort (listed in priority order)
1. The Fort should be on one of the islands of high ground rather than sitting in swamp water.
2. The Fort should be located near one edge of the exam area, so in the event that an attacking force looks unbeatable, we can flee across the border and forfeit the exam but ensure preserve our lives.
3. If possible, this location should be near the place where genin are expected to go to turn in their seals at the conclusion of the exam.

Physical Fort Construction
1. Fort should be built from MEW and triangular in shape with enough space in center to accommodate 15 people.
2. Fort should have a single narrow point of entrance/exit on ground level. I have no f-ing clue what 'create ahead of time and use ninjutsu over it' is supposed to mean.. I would assume we could just leave one corner of the traingle "open" by not quite having the walls meet there.
3. Roof will initially be open, but will be closed with seals as per plans below.
4. Fort should have a MEW-built floor, extruded at a sharp angle and then collapsed to ground (probably by undermining it to make it fall).
NOTE: I am ignoring request to have water connection to outside, as I believe it to be unfeasible with requirement that fort be on high ground and have stone floor.

5. Assume this is doable with no more than 4 MEW castings (one each wall and one for floor) and possibly less if two or more walls can be produced at once (Jutsu description unclear).
6. Use Noburi to transfer chakra so that Hazou can manage this many castings. Ideally draining wildlife, but if available wildlife insufficient request each Leaf genin contribute a little so that no one is too drained.
7. Place some convenient cover in the interior of the fort (logs, probably) to provide some kind of cover in the event an explosion has to be dodged inside the fort or such.

Seal Reinforcement
1. Apply Five-Seal barrier to Floor and walls.
2. Stretch cloth over top of fort as roof and apply Five Seal Barrier to that. (Test to see if this actually works and can't be easily circumvented by (for example) setting cloth on fire, and if it doesn't then adjust strategies based on open roof that enemies will simply jump over.)
a. If necessary, Fate Point to declare we had a cloth of sufficient size.
3. Have Air Dome seal positioned near entrance, so that it can be put up to block entrance if necessary.
4. Have other Air Dome seals scattered around base for cover if required.

Secret Tunnel???
1. Discuss with Pangolins if it is possible to have a secret escape tunnel, made by leaving gap in floor (probably at one of the fort's three corners).
NOTE: This may be impossible to the level of the water table. This is a swamp! However if the QMs think for some reason the tunnel wouldn't immediately flood....
2. Have a Pangolin use Earth Release: Tunnel Excavation for an escape route. Disguise other end using appropriate rolls. Apply traps as per below.

Mechanical Effect Fort Should Achieve
1. Fort is its own zone.
2. Fort has Aspects:
"Open Challenge"
"Prepared Ground"
3. Fort Zone has Border that is effectively impassable anywhere that is covered by 5 Seal Barrier and is "some appropriate number" for going through narrow entrance if air dome has not been activated.
4. When air dome is activated, it must be broken to enter through interior. So someone would have to stand there, pounding on it, while those inside can do basically nothing to respond because if they're completely sealed in they don't have a good means of shooting out. Then the attacker breaks through the air dome, throws an explosive inside this cramped, small fort, and we all die inside as there is no place to effectively dodge to. Yeah, doesn't sound like a great plan to me either, but it's what the players want. This is how Hazou dies.

Traps
Create multiple zones filled with traps surrounding the fort, as noted above.

BRIEFVOICE COMMENTARY: Note that the biggest issue I see with this is that the fort is likely to take up most of the viable "dry ground" area on whatever high ground island we pick, so I'm not sure how well traps will work when anchored in essentially swamp water. How does that even work? I don't know.

Comments from other players?
 
Addendum:

This whole fort idea, wow, it can go one of two ways.

1. The point isn't so much to keep anyone out, as to have a set of walls and trapped ground that we're all familiar with and that Leaf genin can fight around to their own advantage. This would be easy to represent mechanically and easy to build. This would have my vote!

2. The point of the fort is to somehow use seal magic to install invulnerable walls that are overhead, underfoot, and on every side that literally cannot be broken through and in the event of an attack, turtle up and leave them pounding futilely unable to enter or hurt the team. But if we screw it up and they do get in, then you have 15 people trapped in a cramped area where it's basically impossible to really dodge and an explosive or area effect jutsu can kill everyone in a single attack. I think this is a terrible idea, but it seems to be what the planners of the thread desperately want to achieve. Myself, I don't have nearly that level of faith in the invulnerability of 5BS. For all we know there's some weakness to it we haven't found yet that will allow it to be defeated. Like... maybe a vibration attack that travels through the barrier and causes the anchor seal to tear itself apart. I dunno... I just would rather have the PC able to fight the way he wants to fight, rather than depend on the invulnerability of a seal and die if he overlooked something.
 
BRIEFVOICE COMMENTARY: Note that the biggest issue I see with this is that the fort is likely to take up most of the viable "dry ground" area on whatever high ground island we pick, so I'm not sure how well traps will work when anchored in essentially swamp water. How does that even work? I don't know.
I'd imagined that we could just make dry ground with a MEW wall that takes a huge area but isn't very tall to compensate.
 
How about a mix? Part of the issues from last time was that we didn't actually consider things that other ninja could do. So stuff like 5SB floor to prevent Living Roots-like effects from working would be good, as would some way to protect us from attacks overhead. Maybe just paper the whole place with Air Domes and get everyone to memorize which are which so that they can use supplemental actions to trigger them?
 
I'd imagined that we could just make dry ground with a MEW wall that takes a huge area but isn't very tall to compensate.

1. To be "real", a MEW has to come out of earth/dirt/rock in the first place. Hazou have never tested trying to create one coming out of ground covered by water, and it's possible that won't work because chakra rules are arbitrary. Maybe flooded mud isn't solid enough to count as "existing earth".

2. You're suggesting building not just a fort, but an entire island? A platform of stone big enough to hold a fort and then with enough area around it to hold traps? That seems like it's far beyond the area Hazou has ever been implied to get from a MEW. I mean, it would have to be at least a couple of feet thick as well, to be out of the swamp water.

EDIT2: And even if you could, a wide expanse of flat stone doesn't sound like the greatest environment for concealing traps either.

EDIT: I mean, there are plenty of islands around big enough for a fort. But just please remember that this is a swamp. Most of the available area is basically a water-mud combination. This same issue applies to tunnels, as I pointed out. Any tunnel is going to be below the water table and will likely flood and collapse immediately.

Same thing goes for materials, by the way. This is not a forest. I think there are some trees, but they're scrawny, weak swamp trees. Not a lot of available wood for building signs or posts or that kind of thing.
 
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1. To be solid, a MEW has to come out of ground in the first place. Hazou have never tested trying to create one coming out of ground covered by water, and it's possible that won't work because chakra rules are arbitrary. Maybe flooded mud isn't solid enough to count as "existing earth".
He has, actually. It was back after we got kicked out of Leaf the first time, IIRC.

@faflec probably remembers the page number.
 
(JK) Plan: our fort design objectives!
1. Indestructible
2. Protects us from anything our potential enemies can send at us.
3. Allows us to strike back at attackers without risking ourselves.
4. Allows us to trade seals with anyone who wants to, and gives us aspects that help with negotiation (intimidating doom fortress?).
5. Contains a proctor who has been tied down inside the fort so he can't escape. And a popcorn machine.
6. Is Kagome approved. With NO screaming whatsoever. In fact, he looked at this thing and broke down sobbing with joy. And then hugged it

I stg I was going to post exactly this but you beat me to it.
 
So now that we don't have to worry about B̸̵̗̝͓̭͋̂̑ͭͯ̾̊̀͢a̵̙͕̦̻͙͊ͫ̅̇͛́͟ͅd̷͍͈̩̻́̓͆͆̑̓̽́͝ ̳̠̹̥͋̈ͣͣ͂͑͝Ṫ̙̦̰̹͔̠͍̻͓͂̓͛ͮͧ̚̕͠h̭̮ͨ͆͗̌̆ͯͫ͢i̧͉͕̒͐ͪ͗ͯͥ͘͡ͅn̸̳̘̲̪̩͙͙̗̬͌͛͐g̤̩̣̟͓̘͗ͩ̽͌͂ͭ͒͡s̴̸̹̮͖̪̗͓̣̣ͫ happening as a result of combat, we can just go ahead and use level-A explosives, right?
 
I really think the genin would be better off with a fort not designed to turn into some kind of siege. One with an open roof so it's easy to just jump out as needed and move wherever you need to move. Ninja battles are all about mobility; huddling up in an attempted turtle strategy is putting all the eggs in one basket in a very real way. If the enemy gets an attack past the 'Invulnerable" walls in some way that wasn't anticipated or understood, then all of a sudden the fort turns into a trap where there's nowhere to run and escape.
 
Only if Hazou can't adjust the dimensions of a MEW.

Considering he only has one skill rank in the MEW jutsu, because it was one of those that apparently no longer benefits from multiple ranks, I would not expect huge flexibility. He can control the angle at which MEW erupt out of the earth and something of the size, but he obviously can't make it unlimited in size. My natural intuition would be that three walls sufficient to hold fifteen people without being too cramped is already stretching it.

But also, why wouldn't he just build it on an island of high ground? As was specified in the plan int he first place? And yes, that can include making a floor of MEW. This sidetrek started when I pointed out that the area of solid ground around the fort is of necessity limited, whether because it's a limited size island, or because Hazou can't make an arbitrarily large rock platform, and attempting to plant traps in swamp water could be somewhat difficult.
 
For putting down traps, there should be sticks and small bushes all over the place, right? We could put seals on bushes or sticks that are sticking out of the water, or put some sturdier sticks down (with one end embedded in the mud and the other reaching out of the water), hide them among the bushes, and put seals on those.
 
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