And I was saying that there may not have been all that much if any support from the clan elders to kill her. Having the support needed to not get killed is not the same as having the support to not get kicked out of the clan while still being in the same village and loyal to it. And Hana is a jonin - killing a jonin isn't really a sure thing.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
And I was saying that there may not have been all that much if any support from the clan elders to kill her. Having the support needed to not get killed is not the same as having the support to not get kicked out of the clan while still being in the same village and loyal to it. And Hana is a jonin - killing a jonin isn't really a sure thing.
- Location
- Yes.
Yes, and I agree with you; clan support would not have been the same. I'm arguing that clan support is irrelevant if Clan Elder #5 has the desire and power to have her killed. As for Hana being a Jonin...I've been under the impression Poppa was a Jonin as well (though I may be wrong).
Hm. Maybe that's why Poppa died on a mission.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Poppa wasn't a jounin. He was planning on testing for it shortly before his death
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
There are other factors though, especially when it comes to getting a jonin offed. Remember, Yagura is busy inflicting his reign of terror on Kirigakure, so being traitorous is heavily discouraged during this period, and if the clan elders were not absolutely sure that whatever they did could not be traced back to them, selection by Yagura often made sure that other clan elders didn't make the same mistake.
Another factor is that it's hard to make a murder-by-enemy without a paper trail - any accomplices are busy remembering the latest crucified traitor, and trying to be more direct about it gets you killed because it's really hard to assassinate someone without being suspected in a village full of people who know exactly what all the ways to nonsuspiciously assassinate someone are.
Another factor is that it's hard to make a murder-by-enemy without a paper trail - any accomplices are busy remembering the latest crucified traitor, and trying to be more direct about it gets you killed because it's really hard to assassinate someone without being suspected in a village full of people who know exactly what all the ways to nonsuspiciously assassinate someone are.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
The exam that if anyone were to imply was one would lead to one's examination at the facilities of Teaching and Instruction (T&I)
- Location
- Yes.
And now I'm imagining Arikada teaching biosealing in T&I.The exam that if anyone were to imply was one would lead to one's examination at the facilities of Teaching and Instruction (T&I)
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
With enoughAnd now I'm imagining Arikada teaching biosealing in T&I.
HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
Not in-character, so it might as well not have been.
Raxner
The most dangerous man in an empty room
- Location
- Israel
Dunno. Who wants to run the experiment?
Depends on the culture. In the real world, "honor killing," the murder of female relatives for bringing dishonor on the family/clan, is a thing that exists.
Not likely. She'll want to show up, sure, but she'll also be put under immediate close watch in Mist, or simply killed outright.
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- Location
- Yes.
I volunteer Hyuuga Hiashi as tribute.
Edit:
Context is key; in this situation Hana had already gone missing-nin.
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- Location
- Poland, Lublin
I just got an insane idea. . . How about we just *Make* a reverse summoning Seal? We kinda know it's possible, because it's *Almost* what happened during that Infusion fail that sent our 'Spiritual' body to the 'Outside'.
(My Thesis on Outside - Purely Spiritual realm, where Ancient beings of impossible power live.)
I think we could *Research* the fail we did (Not neccesarily recreate - just study what exactly happened there), And try to (Based on it) create a kind of reverse summoning seal, which would need us to place an anchor-seal in the objective point of summoning, and a seal in which we use a set seal for the reverse-summoning, in which we point to the allready placed seal as the place we want to be summoned to. The dangerous part would be us landing in the Outside, not as a spiritual body but a chakra Construct, in case where the destination anchor-seal is broken. . . But i can bet we can work out something to make it Not work if there's no Anchor.
So - Let's make a Reverse summon seal that instead of needing a living-being counterpart, will have a designated spot to which we send a signal from Terminal-like made seal. The Anchor seal then activates and summons our Spiritual Consciousness and creates a Chakra Construct, effectively letting us summon ourselves somewhere else. Pretty much how i think the Flying Thunder God Kunai seal works, but instead of creating a chakra body, he packed his body into a 'Shared' space seal, like the scrolls we use to keep stuff in [forgot the word for the scrolls we keep stuff in.] , And then takes it out in the place of another 'Access' point. Basically - Summons a spiritual consciousness to a different point, where he unpacks his body.
This would give us both an epic advantage in fights, and also vastly push our usefullness and survivability on the other level... But it's way off in the future. For now - The Reverse summon seal for communication n' stuff.
(My Thesis on Outside - Purely Spiritual realm, where Ancient beings of impossible power live.)
I think we could *Research* the fail we did (Not neccesarily recreate - just study what exactly happened there), And try to (Based on it) create a kind of reverse summoning seal, which would need us to place an anchor-seal in the objective point of summoning, and a seal in which we use a set seal for the reverse-summoning, in which we point to the allready placed seal as the place we want to be summoned to. The dangerous part would be us landing in the Outside, not as a spiritual body but a chakra Construct, in case where the destination anchor-seal is broken. . . But i can bet we can work out something to make it Not work if there's no Anchor.
So - Let's make a Reverse summon seal that instead of needing a living-being counterpart, will have a designated spot to which we send a signal from Terminal-like made seal. The Anchor seal then activates and summons our Spiritual Consciousness and creates a Chakra Construct, effectively letting us summon ourselves somewhere else. Pretty much how i think the Flying Thunder God Kunai seal works, but instead of creating a chakra body, he packed his body into a 'Shared' space seal, like the scrolls we use to keep stuff in [forgot the word for the scrolls we keep stuff in.] , And then takes it out in the place of another 'Access' point. Basically - Summons a spiritual consciousness to a different point, where he unpacks his body.
This would give us both an epic advantage in fights, and also vastly push our usefullness and survivability on the other level... But it's way off in the future. For now - The Reverse summon seal for communication n' stuff.
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@eaglejarl, @Velorien, @OliWhail, there's a few lovely tags I might suggest if we go with something like this...
- Location
- Yes.
We can make a whole new category, too!
HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
Don't forget "live forever or die trying". It's also quite appropriate.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
If you do you get to join a very exclusive club. You'll be our 4th member
Raxner
The most dangerous man in an empty room
- Location
- Israel
Don't worry about it, we lost our credibility long ago, if we ever had it.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
We can consider it once we're as good at sealing as Jiraiya is, at least.
- Location
- Poland, Lublin
Aww. . .We can consider it once we're as good at sealing as Jiraiya is, at least.
- Location
- UK
Hello!
I just caught up with the story posts. I have, however, missed a lot of the planning and discussion, so I must apologise in advance if the following suggestions and ideas have already been worked through:
Military and abilities:
-Using force walls: The two ends of a wall need to be parallel and un-moving. Depending on how thin (rectangular) you can get the force wall, you can plate two force wall seals on either end of a sword and give it a cut-through-anything blade edge. It would be fun when the opponent tries to block or grab the sword.
-Artillery: Can force walls intersect? If not, how closely can you make a volume with one open end out of them? If not, use MEW to dig a slanted pit into the ground and fit metal cylinders into the pit to reinforce the walls. Place a Macerator loaded with coal into the pit or force-wall volume. Projectile on top. Ignite. The pressure generated by the fuel-air explosion will drive the projectile out of the cannon. Due to how larger cannons scale, you'll start with the biggest weapon design you can manage. This is ideal for bombarding fixed positions. Using single-use MEW pits, you can prepare them on the field within a few minutes, giving you an effective rate of fire. If you manage to fashion the cannons out of indestructible force walls, you can use stupid pressure-cannon designs like the Voitenko Compressor for intercontinental ballistic bombardment.
-Macerators: A burning log is nice. Finely powdered flammables will ignite without a fire however. Also, they create a whole domain of chemistry so far unavailable to ninja. For example, the Macerators can be used to prepare a reactive powder, like iron fillings, aluminium or magnesium or even alcohol. Very carefully mix the powder with an oxidizer such as sulfure dioxide or permanganate. Seal the products in a storage seal. Release to fix situations with proper firepower. Uniformly divided particles also allow for some very strong ceramic plates, to be used as armor.
-Explosively formed projectiles: Metal disk. Explosive charges. All you need to make a lethal projectile out of a dinner plate. Inverted cones will create Monroe Effects that shape the metal into a penetrating jet. Cut the disk to create a hail of shrapnel. These can be used as mines (think Claymore mine) or as improvements to Kagome's directed explosives, but use the explosive force more efficiently and are lethal at greater distances.
Civilian:
-Fertilizer: No mention of peasants carting around cow manure. They likely have a very basic concept of soil health. Enriching the ground with nitrogen and phosphorus will double or triple yields. The Haber-Bosch process can make this on a large scale out of atmospheric nitrogen and hydrogen. Hydrogen can come from aluminium plus sodium hydroxide in water. You can use an iron catalyst but can skip the high pressure/temperature environment by using macerators to increase reaction rate followed by rapid cooling to extract liquid ammonia. Leaf's economy can switch to exporting ammonia and become an agricultural powerhouse. Ammonia also makes decent... war... chemicals.
-Rapid cooling: Implosion seal. You'd need a one-way seal or valve. Suck the air out of a compartiment, eject it outside. The lower pressure translates into lower temperature. Depending on how tightly sealed the compartment is and how much air is available, you can go from vacuum freezing to gentle air conditioning. Rapid cooling allows us to extract liquids out of the air, from water to liquid oxygen. The condensed products do not need to be inside the compartment: cooling the inner surface of a metal plate can allow frozen air to form on the outer surface. You can freeze-dry food.
-Concrete: People use wood. Its terrible and bad at insulation or humidity, which breeds diseases. Wood rots and is weak too. Widespread availability of concrete will improve everyone's lives. Concrete is not hard to make and macerators allow for very effective firing of kilns and furnaces. Getting ninja to MEW up homes is a bad waste of their specialized skills. Get the civilians to do it for themselves, all they need is a genin to prime the air pumps and replace the seals.
-Metals: Do you even know what temperature a finely misted charcoal and liquid oxygen fire can reach? Rapid cooling valve with the implosion seal can be used in reverse to pump air into a chamber. Leaf will have access to improbably high quality steel. This allows for cheaper agricultural tools, lighter weapons and armor and a low-key industrial revolution with gears and steam engines.
-Roads: People walk on dirt paths surrounded by murderous forests. Use MEW to build walled roads. It will help people. The Romans did it for a reason.
-Seal scribes: Okay, civilians do not have access to chakra techniques. Okay, they do not have Hazo's copying skills. They do learn calligraphy, however, and just teaching a man to write seals all day long until he gets good at it costs a fraction of the full educations and training of a seal master. Cut out the bulk work and allow seal masters to focus on less mind-numbing tasks like research. The civilians will be eating better and living in warmer, stronger homes, so this might free up a bit of labour to be educated.
Story and characters:
-Kagome: He should not be on the field. He should be teaching sealcraft, shouting at students for wonky handwriting and scaring little genins with stories of the Out, surrounded by walls, people he knows and psychological support staff. He should be removed from stressful situations because PTSD and hyper-paranoia have and will put him in bad situations. Every effort should be put into warming up Kagome to the idea of delegating the safety of team Uplift to others, so that he may accept his stay-at-home role. I believe its priority #1 before the team returns to Konoha.
-Chunin exams: The team should prepare themselves to propose and undergo formal testing. Working on reputation to convey their abilities doesn't work when no-one's heard of you. Imagine how differently the situation might have gone if Team Uplifted presented themselves at 'four chunin and a jonin' instead of 'bunch of capable missing-nin'. It would be a fun story arc too.
-Teams: It is in Jiraiya's best interests to split the team up in between major missions. A major mission would require coordination, so people who work together is fine. However, for every A-rank there's a dozen B-rank missions to be assigned. For these missions, the team's skill and experience is wasted. Assigning a genin group to Keiko, Hazo, Noburi separately if temporarily will allow up to nine Konoha ninja to gain practical survival teaching from someone who lived in the wild for hundreds of days and had to deal with life-threatening situations, per mission. So, the team must get ready to be separated for long periods of time. They must also get ready to have a jonin assigned to lead their group on major missions. Minami is a sign of things to come.
-Keiko: I feel sorry for the girl. Is there only one eligible Nara bachelor? How long can she hold off a marriage? She's only like, 13.
-Noburi: I don't recall if using ice instead of water for his abilities was properly tested.
-Hazo: Big mouth, causes problems when he dives into explaining plans with redundant elements or come off as ignoring others' knowledge, for example, when Noburi commented that Hazo ignored Kagome's winter survival knowledge. I propose that Hazo be inspired by scientific papers and prepare an abstract for his speech before he starts. An abstract in this case would be a résumé of his main talking points and suggestions. He's got the whole plan in his head before he speaks, so why not preface it with a statement that allows those he is talking to to quickly interject and add something before he starts. This was he won't give redundant details, assume wrongly about his interlocutors' knowledge or focus on the wrong thing.
-Akane: She's taking the team's departure and unexpected return very well. A little too well. Might exploring her feelings more deeply, instead of what she says she's feeling, be of interest? Hazo's maybe not the best person for this. He's putting his girlfriend on a pedestal and that's not good for either of them.
I just caught up with the story posts. I have, however, missed a lot of the planning and discussion, so I must apologise in advance if the following suggestions and ideas have already been worked through:
Military and abilities:
-Using force walls: The two ends of a wall need to be parallel and un-moving. Depending on how thin (rectangular) you can get the force wall, you can plate two force wall seals on either end of a sword and give it a cut-through-anything blade edge. It would be fun when the opponent tries to block or grab the sword.
-Artillery: Can force walls intersect? If not, how closely can you make a volume with one open end out of them? If not, use MEW to dig a slanted pit into the ground and fit metal cylinders into the pit to reinforce the walls. Place a Macerator loaded with coal into the pit or force-wall volume. Projectile on top. Ignite. The pressure generated by the fuel-air explosion will drive the projectile out of the cannon. Due to how larger cannons scale, you'll start with the biggest weapon design you can manage. This is ideal for bombarding fixed positions. Using single-use MEW pits, you can prepare them on the field within a few minutes, giving you an effective rate of fire. If you manage to fashion the cannons out of indestructible force walls, you can use stupid pressure-cannon designs like the Voitenko Compressor for intercontinental ballistic bombardment.
-Macerators: A burning log is nice. Finely powdered flammables will ignite without a fire however. Also, they create a whole domain of chemistry so far unavailable to ninja. For example, the Macerators can be used to prepare a reactive powder, like iron fillings, aluminium or magnesium or even alcohol. Very carefully mix the powder with an oxidizer such as sulfure dioxide or permanganate. Seal the products in a storage seal. Release to fix situations with proper firepower. Uniformly divided particles also allow for some very strong ceramic plates, to be used as armor.
-Explosively formed projectiles: Metal disk. Explosive charges. All you need to make a lethal projectile out of a dinner plate. Inverted cones will create Monroe Effects that shape the metal into a penetrating jet. Cut the disk to create a hail of shrapnel. These can be used as mines (think Claymore mine) or as improvements to Kagome's directed explosives, but use the explosive force more efficiently and are lethal at greater distances.
Civilian:
-Fertilizer: No mention of peasants carting around cow manure. They likely have a very basic concept of soil health. Enriching the ground with nitrogen and phosphorus will double or triple yields. The Haber-Bosch process can make this on a large scale out of atmospheric nitrogen and hydrogen. Hydrogen can come from aluminium plus sodium hydroxide in water. You can use an iron catalyst but can skip the high pressure/temperature environment by using macerators to increase reaction rate followed by rapid cooling to extract liquid ammonia. Leaf's economy can switch to exporting ammonia and become an agricultural powerhouse. Ammonia also makes decent... war... chemicals.
-Rapid cooling: Implosion seal. You'd need a one-way seal or valve. Suck the air out of a compartiment, eject it outside. The lower pressure translates into lower temperature. Depending on how tightly sealed the compartment is and how much air is available, you can go from vacuum freezing to gentle air conditioning. Rapid cooling allows us to extract liquids out of the air, from water to liquid oxygen. The condensed products do not need to be inside the compartment: cooling the inner surface of a metal plate can allow frozen air to form on the outer surface. You can freeze-dry food.
-Concrete: People use wood. Its terrible and bad at insulation or humidity, which breeds diseases. Wood rots and is weak too. Widespread availability of concrete will improve everyone's lives. Concrete is not hard to make and macerators allow for very effective firing of kilns and furnaces. Getting ninja to MEW up homes is a bad waste of their specialized skills. Get the civilians to do it for themselves, all they need is a genin to prime the air pumps and replace the seals.
-Metals: Do you even know what temperature a finely misted charcoal and liquid oxygen fire can reach? Rapid cooling valve with the implosion seal can be used in reverse to pump air into a chamber. Leaf will have access to improbably high quality steel. This allows for cheaper agricultural tools, lighter weapons and armor and a low-key industrial revolution with gears and steam engines.
-Roads: People walk on dirt paths surrounded by murderous forests. Use MEW to build walled roads. It will help people. The Romans did it for a reason.
-Seal scribes: Okay, civilians do not have access to chakra techniques. Okay, they do not have Hazo's copying skills. They do learn calligraphy, however, and just teaching a man to write seals all day long until he gets good at it costs a fraction of the full educations and training of a seal master. Cut out the bulk work and allow seal masters to focus on less mind-numbing tasks like research. The civilians will be eating better and living in warmer, stronger homes, so this might free up a bit of labour to be educated.
Story and characters:
-Kagome: He should not be on the field. He should be teaching sealcraft, shouting at students for wonky handwriting and scaring little genins with stories of the Out, surrounded by walls, people he knows and psychological support staff. He should be removed from stressful situations because PTSD and hyper-paranoia have and will put him in bad situations. Every effort should be put into warming up Kagome to the idea of delegating the safety of team Uplift to others, so that he may accept his stay-at-home role. I believe its priority #1 before the team returns to Konoha.
-Chunin exams: The team should prepare themselves to propose and undergo formal testing. Working on reputation to convey their abilities doesn't work when no-one's heard of you. Imagine how differently the situation might have gone if Team Uplifted presented themselves at 'four chunin and a jonin' instead of 'bunch of capable missing-nin'. It would be a fun story arc too.
-Teams: It is in Jiraiya's best interests to split the team up in between major missions. A major mission would require coordination, so people who work together is fine. However, for every A-rank there's a dozen B-rank missions to be assigned. For these missions, the team's skill and experience is wasted. Assigning a genin group to Keiko, Hazo, Noburi separately if temporarily will allow up to nine Konoha ninja to gain practical survival teaching from someone who lived in the wild for hundreds of days and had to deal with life-threatening situations, per mission. So, the team must get ready to be separated for long periods of time. They must also get ready to have a jonin assigned to lead their group on major missions. Minami is a sign of things to come.
-Keiko: I feel sorry for the girl. Is there only one eligible Nara bachelor? How long can she hold off a marriage? She's only like, 13.
-Noburi: I don't recall if using ice instead of water for his abilities was properly tested.
-Hazo: Big mouth, causes problems when he dives into explaining plans with redundant elements or come off as ignoring others' knowledge, for example, when Noburi commented that Hazo ignored Kagome's winter survival knowledge. I propose that Hazo be inspired by scientific papers and prepare an abstract for his speech before he starts. An abstract in this case would be a résumé of his main talking points and suggestions. He's got the whole plan in his head before he speaks, so why not preface it with a statement that allows those he is talking to to quickly interject and add something before he starts. This was he won't give redundant details, assume wrongly about his interlocutors' knowledge or focus on the wrong thing.
-Akane: She's taking the team's departure and unexpected return very well. A little too well. Might exploring her feelings more deeply, instead of what she says she's feeling, be of interest? Hazo's maybe not the best person for this. He's putting his girlfriend on a pedestal and that's not good for either of them.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Welcome! We're happy to have you! I'll go through your post in a bit, I just wanted to get a welcome out first.
(And express my sympathies for the QMs
)
- Location
- UK
Assuming I'm thinking about the right thing, it's worth noting that I wrote that aspect of the plan for almost purely metagame reasons, and in that regard it worked perfectly. It's all well and good to say that Hazō should act in a better manner, but if you don't consider why plans were made as they were, you're not going to be able to change squat.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Nah, this was way back in Mountain.
e: It occurs to me that if we made a seal to infuse a specific type of seal (say, a explosion seal or storage seal-infusing seal), then we could combine it with Lesser Barrier Formation and Civilian Sealwriters to safely infuse mass-produced seals.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Welcome back! Nice to have people rejoining, and contributing so many cool (albeit headache-inducing for the QMs) ideas.
(And express my sympathies for the QMs
In veriest deed.
*grabs some aspirin*
*grabs more aspirin*