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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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1234qwerty said:
So now that Orochimaru is likely to catch wind of Keiko being a summoner anyway, how bad on the Zabuza scale would it be to preemptively send him a message via the pangolins to the snakes?
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inb4 faflec screaming.

This isn't actually an atrocious idea if we have something to hold over Orochimaru. Right now the power balance is strictly in his favor. The only defence we have against him is his inability to find us.

When we have more on our side, either in terms of having a polity we control, each of us being individually S-class, or something it might be worthwhile.

Either way, something we should do right now is ask the pangolin what their tactical/relationship situation is with various other summon clans: Snakes, Slugs, Dogs, Monkey, Hawk, basically any clan we've heard of.
 
So I was working on stats for a jounin level Keiko and I came to realize a bit of a problem that we have with Keiko's and Noburi's builds. Both of them have an academy student level Taijutsu scores.

Defense against single target attacks (like a standard kunai throw) is rolled with Taijutsu. Meaning, even low chuunin opponents will turn Keiko and Noburi into pincushions if they get the chance to roll Weapons against them in combat. Their only real defense against that is to use Substitution to dodge the kunai, but if the enemy can make us expend 8 CP for every Kunai they throw, both of them will run out of chakra really fast.

We need to fix that opening somehow. Raising Taijutsu is one option, but it is also rather expensive. For Keiko we could introduce a Weapons style or something that exchanges the Taijutsu roll to a TacMove roll through superior positioning or something.

For Nobby the solution could be a defensive jutsu of some kind or just trust his massive chakra reserve and be ready to spam Substitution. It will still leave him very vulnerable if he finds himself in a low vision environment, for example inside a mist cloud.
 
eaglejarl said:
No it isn't...?

Back in A Bonfire Of Tapirs I had Keiko and Noburi parry thrown weapons with Weapons and Water Whip, respectively.
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Oh thank god, I really didn't want throw all these builds away just because of this thing.

Is parrying like that used or mentioned anywhere else? I think something like this should be mentioned in the system rules somewhere.
 
So could Mari bypass the Shadow clone mind explosion by using TLitF and sacrifice only one set of memories while integrating the clone memories in their place?
 
Twofold said:
Oh thank god, I really didn't want throw all these builds away just because of this thing.

Is parrying like that used or mentioned anywhere else? I think something like this should be mentioned in the system rules somewhere.
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It never seemed like it needed to be. You attack with whatever your combat skill is. You defend with whatever your combat skill is. Why would it matter if it's ranged or melee?

The one exception is explosives, which are discussed in the rules.
 
Traiden said:
So could Mari bypass the Shadow clone mind explosion by using TLitF and sacrifice only one set of memories while integrating the clone memories in their place?
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It's an intriguing idea, but I sincerely doubt that it would be a Forbidden Jutsu if it had an exploit that easily available. And, on a meta game level, there's little chance they'd throw us that large of a bone while also explaining why she or anyone else hadn't thought of it before and made the Jutsu commonplace.
 
eaglejarl said:
You defend with whatever your combat skill is. Why would it matter if it's ranged or melee.
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You know, I don't think that is explicitly mentioned in the System Rules either.

I think the explosives rules confused me at some point because how it alters how things go normally. My thinking process probably went something like this: "Okay, so TacMove is used to dodge explosives, what do we use to dodge normal kunai? Taijutsu? Okay that's good enough."

I must've resolved the question other way before, otherwise I would've pushed for totally different training plans along the line. It's just that every time I forget how something in the mechanics works, I need to spend some time thinking and digging up stuff before I can be sure how it goes. I guess this time I landed on a wrong conclusion.


Embarrassing misconceptions about game mechanics aside, here's Keiko's jounin build capped at +2000XP from now.



Keiko - Stealthy Weapon Mistress Jounin​


With this is, Keiko is a ranged combat specialist that relies on her Stealth and summons to not get hit. To this, add choice wind jutsu to make things slightly easier in and out of combat and to make use of her big chakra reserves when summoning is not an option.​

On social front Keiko will be relying on Deal Making, which is meant mostly for bargaining and hooking up with awesome pangolins. This leaves her vulnerable in casual and non-structured social settings, meaning most of the time she is better off by hiding with Stealth or by letting Hazou or Nobby take care of the talking.

  • Skills
    • Weapons 24 - 90XP
    • Stealth 24 - 245XP
    • Tactical Movement 22 - 133XP
    • Awareness 21 - 153XP
  • Jutsu
    • Summoning 20 - 155XP
    • Substitution 20 - 174XP
    • Transformation 10 - 52XP
    • Zephyr 10 - 19XP
    • Wind Wall 14 - 77.5XP
    • Util Jutsu A 10 - 27.5XP
    • Util Jutsu B 10 - 27.5XP
  • Cost: 1153.5 XP
  • Attributes
    • Int 7 - 36XP
    • Wits 7 - 36XP
    • Res 7 - 36XP
    • Str 1 - 0XP
    • Dex 8 - 16XP
    • Sta 5 - 10XP
    • Cap 22 - 324XP
    • Con 10 - 80XP
    • Reg 15 - 105XP
  • Cost: 643XP
  • Social
    • Diplomacy 14 - 50XP
    • Deception 10 - 19XP
    • Deal Making 14 - 84XP
    • Pre 7 - 26XP
    • Man 5 - 10XP
    • Com 5 - 10XP
  • Cost: 199XP
Total XP Cost: 1995,5

I didn't mention it last time, but yes I would very much like to get feedback on these plans and opinions on whether we should go this way or not. Having even a vague consensus on what we should do next is better than nothing.
 
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I think Thursdays must be cursed. I have a near-migraine which started off as a tiredness headache last night and somehow got worse the more I slept (and has yet to get better). Update delayed. Sorry.
 
Dark as Silver said:
Guys the tags for this quest are awful. We should put some effort into making better ones.
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  • Saving the world through excessive collateral damage
  • Miniature Surrogate Mom Quest
  • Surprisingly Few Tentacles
  • Stinkers
  • The doctor is INside YOUR MIND!

Since the update will be late, we have plenty of time to talk about other exiting things. Like character builds! Here's what Nobby could look like after a gentle infusion of 2000 XP.


Noburi - Charming Field Medic​

Building for medical and social skills is really expensive, and this leaves Nobby somewhat lackluster in combat. He will survive, but don't expect him to mow down armies of enemy ninjas.
  • Skills
    • Medicine 21 - 225XP
    • MedJutsu 20 - 189XP
    • TacMov 21 - 111XP
    • Awareness 18 - 93XP
    • Stealth 16 - 81XP
  • Jutsu
    • WaterWhip 24 - 180XP
    • Substitution 20 - 174XP
    • Transformation 10 - 0XP
    • Water Clones 18 - 68XP
    • VD 15 - 0XP
    • Syrup Trap 12 - 0XP
  • Cost: 1121XP
  • Social
    • Diplomacy 20 - 132XP
    • Deception 14 - 69XP
    • Pre 10 - 68XP
    • Man 7 - 36XP
    • Com 7 - 36XP
  • Cost: 341XP
  • Attributes
    • Int 7 - 50XP
    • Wits 7 - 36XP
    • Res 10 - 98XP
    • Str 1 - 0XP
    • Dex 7 - 26XP
    • Sta 4 - 8XP
    • Con 20 - 310XP
  • Cost: 528XP

Total Cost: 1990 XP


This was a very annoying build, because Nobby doesn't really have enough XP for anything.
 
2000 XP is, incidentally, more than a year out if we get an average of 15 XP per update. So maybe by New Years' 2018? If we survive that long? :D
 
Unlike rest of the team members, Akane has no really expensive skills to pull her down. Meaning this is just one option how to go about building her.

Unless I remember wrong, MechApt caps at 15 and after that we need to specialize (Traps, Clockwork, Architecture, etc.) depending on what we want to do. The build was made with this in mind.


Akane - Fiery Trapper Jounin​

This build is just basic Stealth and Traps build with a strong fire jutsu as a holdout for really scary situations. To proceed with this build we will need to get our hands on a Trap trainer (or similar resource) and a strong fire jutsu. I'm sure we can come up with something.

For close combat, Akane will rely on her style and the extra Str and Sta she should be acquiring from the pangolin conditioning jutsu. The free stats have been taken into account in the build.

Social situations will be the biggest weakpoint of this Akane. Look for other builds if you want Akane to work as the face of the group.
  • Skills/Jutsu
    • Stealth 24 - 234XP
    • Traps 24 - 180XP
    • TacMove 21 - 111XP
    • Awareness 20 - 165XP
    • Taijutsu 17 - 33XP
    • Youthful Fist 10 - 34XP
    • Diplomacy 10 - 34XP
    • Deception 10 - 34XP
    • Substitution 20 - 155XP
    • Transformation 10 - 54XP
  • Cost: 1034XP
  • Attributes
    • Int 2 - 0XP
    • Wits 7 - 36XP
    • Res 4 - 14XP
    • Str 11 - 0XP
    • Dex 8 - 42XP
    • Sta 11 - 0XP
    • Cap 15 - 130XP
    • Con 4 - 14XP
    • Reg 10 - 45XP
  • Cost: 281XP
Total Costs: 1315XP

These are the two specialization we could go for. The first one emphasizes an extremely murderous fire jutsu, whereas the second option get Akane a secondary MechApt specialization. The Control requirement is an educated guess and a lot of this will depend on what sort of fire jutsu we find.

Pick one.
  • Fire and Brimstone
    • Fireball Jutsu 24 - 292,5XP
    • Cap 20 - 180XP
    • Con 12 - 136XP
    • Reg 15 - 65XP
  • Cost: 673,5XP
  • Fire and Mechanics
    • MechApt Spec. 24 - 180XP
    • Fireball Jutsu 22 - 245,5XP
    • Cap 18 - 102XP
    • Con 11 - 112XP
    • Reg 12 - 23XP
  • Cost: 662,5XP

After looking at this build and the one I made for Nobby, I almost feel like we should turn Akane into our Diplomancer messiah (just replace the big fire jutsu with Social skills). That would let us pursue more medicine and water jutsu with Nobby. I'm just not quite sure how Nobby and Akane would take that.

EDIT: So basically we would put Akane to Team Talky and Nobby would move to Team Stalky. Stealth and VD have nice synergy, not to mention it would be awesome if our medic knew how to hide.
 
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Twofold said:
hooking up with awesome pangolins
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*raised eyebrow*
Keiko is not quite that open-minded.

Twofold said:
It's just that every time I forget how something in the mechanics works, I need to spend some time thinking and digging up stuff before I can be sure how it goes.
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Welcome to my world. :> Every time I write a fight scene there's all this digging around and "wait, how do the MC rules work again?"


Aoditor said:
Oilwhail's latest omake, last post pg 1145, isn't on the thread mark.

@eaglejarl
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OliWhail said:
E: It's this one
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Oops. Fixed! Thanks for the pointer.

Okay, I really need to stop doing fun quest things and get back to work. Ciao.
 
@Twofold

I'd rather use a Noburi build that makes heavier use of Noburi's vampirism. Now that he can drain through mist, we have an oppurtunity to create a more attrition focussed style of fighting. Draining opponents, while using medjutsu to buff the team, so that the balance of power tilts further in our favour as the fight goes on.

Getting VD 20 seems like a good idea to me. We can always benefit by denying our enemies more chakra per second.
 
MadScientist said:
Getting VD 20 seems like a good idea to me. We can always benefit by denying our enemies more chakra per second.
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Okay, but where do you get that XP from?

The build is already full of compromises. For example I would love Nobby to Mirror Hazou and give him 24 Diplo, 16 Deception. The problem is that the XP just isn't there.

EDIT: For example, we could drop 2 dice from WaterWhip and Substitution to get that XP, but do we really want to dump down his main combat stat and best escape skill?
 
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Twofold said:
Okay, but where do you get that XP from?

The build is already full of compromises. For example I would love Nobby to Mirror Hazou and give him 24 Diplo, 16 Deception. The problem is that the XP just isn't there.

EDIT: For example, we could drop 2 dice from WaterWhip and Substitution to get that XP, but do we really want to dump down his main combat stat and best escape skill?
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VD 20 needs 90 XP.

If we drop Water Whip down to 20 then we make up exactly that difference (ignoring attribute costs), 24+23+22+21=90.

If we up VD to jonin-tier then Noburi doesn't need to hit as accurately, he just needs to dodge well and be threatening enough to prolong the fight, and eventually his enemy will drop.
 
MadScientist said:
If we up VD to jonin-tier then Noburi doesn't need to hit as accurately, he just needs to dodge well and be threatening enough to prolong the fight, and eventually his enemy will drop.
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But that's the thing, like @eaglejarl clarified earlier, WW is also used for defense against projectiles. If we lower it, it makes Nobby more likely to get picked off by a jounin level ranged attacker while playing time for VD to work.

The same thing with lowering Substitution. Substitution 20 and TacMove 21 (20 + 21/2) give us 30 dice for dodging explosives. That is on par with a jounin level weapons user (Weapons 24 + 6 Chakra boost) throwing a explosive tag kunai at us.

If we want XP from somewhere we need to start pinching from the social or medical skills.
 
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Twofold said:
But that's the thing, like @eaglejarl clarified earlier, WW is also used for defense against projectiles. If we lower it, it makes Nobby more likely to get picked off by a jounin level ranged attacker while playing time for VD to work.
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Wait.

I thought "combat skill" was to parry, and TacMove was to dodge, and the character would choose to either parry or dodge depending on which was higher.

Is that not the case @eaglejarl?
 
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