I thought "combat skill" was to parry, and TacMove was to dodge, and the character would choose to either parry or dodge depending on which was higher.

My understanding is, that the main combat skill is used to either dodge (Taijutsu) or parry (Weapons) ranged attacks, depending which one makes more sense.

TacMov is used to dodge explosions and controlling the distance from other combatants.

@eaglejarl can probably clarify as necessary.

EDIT: So basically if Nobby was trying to play for time, he would be rolling TacMove to stay outside the range of people trying to tag him, but if any of the enemies get to kunai throwing range (not that hard) he has roll WaterWhip* to parry the projectiles or get tagged.

*EDIT 2: Unless of course the kunai had an explosive tag attached to it, then Nobby would have to roll TacMov to not get tagged by the explosion.
 
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Keiko - Stealthy Weapon Mistress Jounin


With this is, Keiko is a ranged combat specialist that relies on her Stealth and summons to not get hit. To this, add choice wind jutsu to make things slightly easier in and out of combat and to make use of her big chakra reserves when summoning is not an option.​

On social front Keiko will be relying on Deal Making, which is meant mostly for bargaining and hooking up with awesome pangolins. This leaves her vulnerable in casual and non-structured social settings, meaning most of the time she is better off by hiding with Stealth or by letting Hazou or Nobby take care of the talking.

  • Skills
    • Weapons 24 - 90XP
    • Stealth 24 - 245XP
    • Tactical Movement 22 - 133XP
    • Awareness 21 - 153XP
  • Jutsu
    • Summoning 20 - 155XP
    • Substitution 20 - 174XP
    • Transformation 10 - 52XP
    • Zephyr 10 - 19XP
    • Wind Wall 14 - 77.5XP
    • Util Jutsu A 10 - 27.5XP
    • Util Jutsu B 10 - 27.5XP
  • Cost: 1153.5 XP
  • Attributes
    • Int 7 - 36XP
    • Wits 7 - 36XP
    • Res 7 - 36XP
    • Str 1 - 0XP
    • Dex 8 - 16XP
    • Sta 5 - 10XP
    • Cap 22 - 324XP
    • Con 10 - 80XP
    • Reg 15 - 105XP
  • Cost: 643XP
  • Social
    • Diplomacy 14 - 50XP
    • Deception 10 - 19XP
    • Deal Making 14 - 84XP
    • Pre 7 - 26XP
    • Man 5 - 10XP
    • Com 5 - 10XP
  • Cost: 199XP
Total XP Cost: 1995,5


I didn't mention it last time, but yes I would very much like to get feedback on these plans and opinions on whether we should go this way or not. Having even a vague consensus on what we should do next is better than nothing.

I really don't think that Summoning 20 is necessary. I mean, I don't know what how powerful the mightiest Pangolins get, but 20 seems excessive. The thing that Summoning caps is both the Max Level of any single Pangolin summoned, and how many contracts Keiko can have at one time. At that point, it'd take significantly more chakra than her and Noburi's stores have to summon all of them. I think Keiko might be better suited to putting that XP towards her basic stats.

Also, I like how she's specializing in the one field that she said she didn't want to train. I also think that she should have a higher base combat power, since she is the Pangolin Summoner, and there has to be a reason why their summoners usually rank among the most powerful ninjas alive (though it's just dawned on me that we still haven't really seen how it makes the Summoner themselves more powerful, hmm).

Noburi - Charming Field Medic

Building for medical and social skills is really expensive, and this leaves Nobby somewhat lackluster in combat. He will survive, but don't expect him to mow down armies of enemy ninjas.
  • Skills
    • Medicine 21 - 225XP
    • MedJutsu 20 - 189XP
    • TacMov 21 - 111XP
    • Awareness 18 - 93XP
    • Stealth 16 - 81XP
  • Jutsu
    • WaterWhip 24 - 180XP
    • Substitution 20 - 174XP
    • Transformation 10 - 0XP
    • Water Clones 18 - 68XP
    • VD 15 - 0XP
    • Syrup Trap 12 - 0XP
  • Cost: 1121XP
  • Social
    • Diplomacy 20 - 132XP
    • Deception 14 - 69XP
    • Pre 10 - 68XP
    • Man 7 - 36XP
    • Com 7 - 36XP
  • Cost: 341XP
  • Attributes
    • Int 7 - 50XP
    • Wits 7 - 36XP
    • Res 10 - 98XP
    • Str 1 - 0XP
    • Dex 7 - 26XP
    • Sta 4 - 8XP
    • Con 20 - 310XP
  • Cost: 528XP
Total Cost: 1990 XP



This was a very annoying build, because Nobby doesn't really have enough XP for anything.

This one I disagree with a bit more. I like the medical training, as his character arc about finding fulfillment in helping people is my favorite thing about him, but he's really restricted in combat. I want to further develop the ninjutsu specialist part of him, and that includes learning an extra element or two. Water Whip is restricted to one enemy at a time, and doesn't take advantage of his vast chakra stores at all. MEW scales with the amount of chakra Hazou can put in it, and Noburi needs something like that to exploit his strengths. I really want to expand his mastery over VD as well, as there's definitely more to his bloodline that we can use. And Hiding-In-Mist is a huge omission in the jutsu list. He needs that jutsu, and should absolutely develop his fighting style around filling everything with Mist and stalling.

On that note, an awesome Noburi idea is high VD, high Hiding-In-Mist, high Stealth, maybe Earth Element and MEW. He fills the entire area with Mist, creates a trollish labyrinth with roofing. He can constantly sense and drain anyone in the labyrinth, and stalls for time until he finishes draining their reserves. Haunted Mist indeed.

Akane - Fiery Trapper Jounin

This build is just basic Stealth and Traps build with a strong fire jutsu as a holdout for really scary situations. To proceed with this build we will need to get our hands on a Trap trainer (or similar resource) and a strong fire jutsu. I'm sure we can come up with something.

For close combat, Akane will rely on her style and the extra Str and Sta she should be acquiring from the pangolin conditioning jutsu. The free stats have been taken into account in the build.

Social situations will be the biggest weakpoint of this Akane. Look for other builds if you want Akane to work as the face of the group.
  • Skills/Jutsu
    • Stealth 24 - 234XP
    • Traps 24 - 180XP
    • TacMove 21 - 111XP
    • Awareness 20 - 165XP
    • Taijutsu 17 - 33XP
    • Youthful Fist 10 - 34XP
    • Diplomacy 10 - 34XP
    • Deception 10 - 34XP
    • Substitution 20 - 155XP
    • Transformation 10 - 54XP
  • Cost: 1034XP
  • Attributes
    • Int 2 - 0XP
    • Wits 7 - 36XP
    • Res 4 - 14XP
    • Str 11 - 0XP
    • Dex 8 - 42XP
    • Sta 11 - 0XP
    • Cap 15 - 130XP
    • Con 4 - 14XP
    • Reg 10 - 45XP
  • Cost: 281XP
Total Costs: 1315XP

These are the two specialization we could go for. The first one emphasizes an extremely murderous fire jutsu, whereas the second option get Akane a secondary MechApt specialization. The Control requirement is an educated guess and a lot of this will depend on what sort of fire jutsu we find.

Pick one.
  • Fire and Brimstone
    • Fireball Jutsu 24 - 292,5XP
    • Cap 20 - 180XP
    • Con 12 - 136XP
    • Reg 15 - 65XP
  • Cost: 673,5XP
  • Fire and Mechanics
    • MechApt Spec. 24 - 180XP
    • Fireball Jutsu 22 - 245,5XP
    • Cap 18 - 102XP
    • Con 11 - 112XP
    • Reg 12 - 23XP
  • Cost: 662,5XP


After looking at this build and the one I made for Nobby, I almost feel like we should turn Akane into our Diplomancer messiah (just replace the big fire jutsu with Social skills). That would let us pursue more medicine and water jutsu with Nobby. I'm just not quite sure how Nobby and Akane would take that.

EDIT: So basically we would put Akane to Team Talky and Nobby would move to Team Stalky. Stealth and VD have nice synergy, not to mention it would be awesome if our medic knew how to hide.

I heavily don't like taking a single step further into MechApt until we start seeing some actual returns. I've only just explicitly noticed how completely useless it has been compared to Sealing Defenses, and if she's gonna be a crafter, it should be stuff that synergizes with Hazou's seals and augment the team with equipment.

Also, I am automatically averse to any Akane build that doesn't involve Flame Shroud.
 
On the note of Noburi using Hiding-in-the-Mist, I recall there being a non-bloodline technique that allowed the chuunin under Zabuza in canon to hide in a puddle of water. Maybe there's a version of it for mist too, so that Noburi is literally the phantom in the mist?
 
I really don't think that Summoning 20 is necessary. I mean, I don't know what how powerful the mightiest Pangolins get, but 20 seems excessive.

I assume that 20 is where she would be able to summon the big boss pangolin. We don't know if that is true but I assume that the QMs are at least going to hint if that is not the case.

We already used our monomaniacal on summoning, so we should definitely aim to max it.

I want to further develop the ninjutsu specialist part of him, and that includes learning an extra element or two.

That means scuttling either his medical skills, social skills, or possibly both. Neither of them are really that high in the plan to begin with (Nobby's Diplo 20 vs Hazou's Decep 24).

Water Whip is restricted to one enemy at a time, and doesn't take advantage of his vast chakra stores at all.

Yeah, it's just his combat skill that lets him not die immediately after the fight starts, the low chakra cost is imperative for that so he can use it even when low on chakra. It would be nice to give him more jutsu, but medical and social skills are really expensive.

I heavily don't like taking a single step further into MechApt until we start seeing some actual returns. I've only just explicitly noticed how completely useless it has been compared to Sealing Defenses, and if she's gonna be a crafter, it should be stuff that synergizes with Hazou's seals and augment the team with equipment.

Seals are used to augment traps, MechApt is the skill we roll when we want to place them somewhere and hopefully catch people with them. Kagome has been doing that for now but I'm planning these builds around the concept that the genin are operating without Team Old People.
 
God, imagine how far we'd be stretching for all of these skills if we were alone. shudders

I DO kind of like the idea of making Akane a diplomancer because seeing her chastise those clan ninja was AMAZING and aaaaa.

Maybe we should look for other training techniques similar to the conditioning jutsu, for other types of attributes. Maybe if we capture Arikada we can ask Jiraiya for, for instance, a technique to improve chakra control, capacity, etc. This would make things much more easy to handle, I think.
 
Apropos of nothing, here's a list of potential pangolin names for the QMs.
pancake
pandemic
pan-seared
pandora
pantelope
pangst
panalogy
pangelina jolie
rad pit
pantecedent
panini
panalgesic
panodized
pantaloon
pansparent
panslucent
panywhere
panything
panion
pancreas
pancient
pantry
panarch
pangle
panguish
...panteater
panimosity
pankle
pandemonium
panacea
panpersand
pannotate
panvil
pancho
panogram
panchovy
panel
panorama
pantipasta
pank
panoply
panybody
panglosaxon
panime
panchette
panger
pannnikin skywalker
panic
pannual
panorexic
panxious
panzer
panthelion
I'm sure they thank you. :p

e: Also, for reference, you are not alone in disliking stealth. I would very much like to get seals or techniques to give sufficiently-high bonuses to replace high levels in a lot of these skills.
 
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@Twofold What's the difference between chakra boosted tac move and substitution boosted tac move?
They have a different chakra cost? Are they combineable?

Don't ask me! I don't know anything about anything!

If you chakra boost your TacMov, the character just uses chakra to run faster. Max boost is TacMov/4 and each boost dice costs 5CP.

If you use Substitution, you need to cast the superspeed jutsu that swaps you with a valid target seemingly instantaneously as long as there's a path to the target. The mechanics for that is Substitution + TacMov/2, and the chakra cost is a static 8CP.

Most importantly though, you can use Substitution to dodge attacks that would've otherwise gotten through your defenses. Meaning it works like a last ditch escape mechanic unlike just standard TacMov.

I'm not sure that becoming jonin is what we want to do with our next 2000 xp. We could get a lot further by covering for the holes in each other's skill sets. It'd be great if most of us could dump stealth in favor of seals that camouflage, remove smell, and silence our steps. Alarm seals could cover for awareness. I still think there should be at least one member of the party that naturally has a high score, but raising these stats for everybody feels redundant.

I have taken that into account where it makes sense. For example everyone needs TacMov so we need to level that. Awareness is also so important that leaving it to 12 or something is asking for trouble. If we can boost these with Sealing, awesome, but we do need those seals first.

There's also a split between Team Talky and Stalky, where the former ignores Stealth (only 16) and the latter ignores social skills.

Maybe I'm alone in disliking stealth. I see it as useful when crossing borders and when doing ninja things near other ninja. I don't think we've seen it do anything in combat besides allowing first strike. I hope we'll soon have a hot air balloon for crossing borders and when it comes to doing ninja things near ninja, stealth doesn't matter if we're blowing them up. I'm open to being persuaded that stealth is useful as a combat mechanic, we just haven't seen that yet.

Stealth is mostly there to give us the option of not fighting. It's also important for gathering information in preparation for combat, not to mention it can probably be used mid-combat as long as we can break line of sight properly (with a mist or something).

EDIT: Oh, and first strike usually decides the fight. So attacking from Stealth is super useful.

I'm with madscientist in thinking that everybody in the group should have some medical ninjutsu and knowledge. Depending on how higher levels of medical ninjutsu work, it might be better to have Noburi drop medical knowledge at 10 and have someone else in the party pick it up. He has no need for INT otherwise, whereas Keiko and Hazou would have it in abundance.

Medicine is only Int*3, so getting it high is not prohibitively expensive. Getting some medical skills for everyone sounds nice, but once again there's no free XP. We need to sacrifice something for that.

I don't understand why we're getting everybody's transformation to 10. What is the material benefit of that? Is there a reason we're not getting the academy clone technique to 10 as well?

Because it gives us more forms and lets us shift mass more effectively (45% difference at Transformation 10).

Middling transformation is also useful to augment Deception or Stealth. QMs have said that seeing through a henge is rolled as Deception against the opponents Deception and Transformation. I assume that team Stalky can augment their Stealth skills with it in the same way.

Animal Transformation is opened at level 20, so we'll probably want everyone to get that at some point. Current plan is for just Hazou to get it, since he probably has easier time learning a new form that the other thanks to IN.

Um, Akane gets an extra 10% xp from the pangolin jutsu to allocate to STR and DEX. Besides that, showing the chakra total and regen rates with the proposed attributes would be nice. Don't know what a good jonin minimum would be. I'm not sure, but is there a discount for regen if capacity is higher and vice versa?

All of those have been taken into account in the builds. I'll probably condense them into one post at some point.
Also, I'm not sure how the math works out, but high level syrup trap could be really powerful, especially if it stacks.

Syrup Trap uses TacMove as a part of the roll, so we don't actually need to level the skill itself for it to still be really useful.


On Noburi getting jutsu instead of medical skills:

If we cut his Medicine and Medjutsu skills off at 15, we save 227XP. Without touching other skills, we could get some extra jutsu with that, here are the discounted prices for Water Jutsu:

Water Jutsu A 10 - 27.5XP
Water Jutsu B 15 - 60XP
Water Jutsu C 20 - 105XP

We can mix and match those to fill the 227XP as we please, assuming they are worth the lowered medical scores. (Sorry, your groundbreaking medical research is in another castle.)
 
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I think I'd rather he have MedJutsu 20 at least, if not Medicine. We need him to learn to resurrect people and that's gonna require hells of points in Med Jutsu.

e: That being said, getting everyone 5 points in Med Jutsu, Sealing, and Technique Hacking would cost 45 XP and PROBABLY be worth it? Depends on how TH works (If its abilities scale with one's familiarity with a technique IN ADDITION to itself it could still be of use at low levels for members of the party without the XP to pump it way up). Not entirely sure about leveling sealing for everyone, but Med Jutsu and TH would definitely be worth it if they have the stats for it otherwise (so, probably Akane would be left out).
 
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Hazou making a light Saber via seals. Kagome looking over the design and adding it to his ring pocket. Keiko making greater use of it with her high weapons skill.
 
Hazou making a light Saber via seals. Kagome looking over the design and adding it to his ring pocket. Keiko making greater use of it with her high weapons skill.
This would actually be a really brutal surprise attack from Kagome or Akane. If she doesn't care whether her victims live or die, she could turn into a freaking dervish of death.
 
Due to popular demand, here's a build for Nobby that puts more emphasis on jutsu. Probably contains some errors.




Noburi - Charmingly Drenched Medic

So the base is pretty much the same as before, high Water Whip to make sure Nobby doesn't die immediately after the fight starts and jounin level TacMov and Substitution to keep him safe from explosives. As the base option, he can summon 6 Water Clones.

Medical skills are lowered to ~15 dice, meaning Nobby will be good to heal most of the stuff we get hit with and is a solid hand at creating poisons and medicine, as long as he is not competing against Orochimaru or something. Just don't expect him to come up with groundbreaking inventions that rock the Elemental Nations as we know them.

With the scuttled medical skills, Nobby has access to a handful of Water Jutsu. This requires him to make good use of the discount on Water Jutsu, so another element is still out of the picture.

These are the essential skills that keep Nobby alive and make sure he is not a burden. Not much wiggle room here, at best I could see us dropping MedJutsu to 14 (saving 47xp) but that's about it.
  • Skills
    • TacMov 21 - 111XP
    • Awareness 18 - 93XP
    • Stealth 16 - 81XP
    • MedJutsu 16 - 115XP
    • Medicine 15 - 114XP
  • Jutsu
    • WaterWhip 24 - 180XP
    • Substitution 20 - 174XP
    • Transformation 10 - 0XP
    • Water Clones 18 - 68XP
    • VD 15 - 0XP
    • Syrup Trap 12 - 0XP
  • Cost: 936XP
  • Attributes
    • Int 5 - 24XP
    • Wits 6 - 22XP
    • Res 8 - 60XP
    • Str 1 - 0XP
    • Dex 7 - 26XP
    • Sta 4 - 8XP
    • Con 20 - 310XP
  • Cost: 450XP
Then come the social skills. Diplomacy 20 is not really that groundbreaking, Noburi will get outdone by clan leaders, nation level diplomats, and social specced jounin (like Mari). It should be good against your standard issue field jounin though.
  • Social
    • Diplomacy 20 - 132XP
    • Deception 14 - 69XP
    • Pre 10 - 68XP
    • Man 7 - 36XP
    • Com 7 - 36XP
  • Cost: 341XP
Current Total: 1727 XP

That leaves us with 273 XP to spend on water jutsu. You can pick the combination of discounted jutsu you want from the box below:

box of discounted water jutsu
Water Clone 21 - 30XP
Water Clone 24 - 64.5XP
Vampiric Dew 20 - 90XP
Syrup Trap 15 - 31XP

Water Jutsu A 10 - 27.5XP
Water Jutsu B 15 - 60XP
Water Jutsu C 20 - 105XP

These jutsu should mostly be buffing, de-buffing, battlefield control, and maybe AoE stuff for low level opponents. Since those are probably the more cost effective XP wise, we can probably get away with just 10-15 levels on them. For something that directly damages jounin level opponents, I would estimate that we need at least 20 levels.



Frankly, this option would probably be way more fun for active play since a bunch of little jutsu would give incentive for creative problem solving. The biggest downside is the hit to medical research; I don't see us figuring out something like biological immortality with this setup.

Discuss.
 
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Frankly, this option would probably be way more fun for active play since a bunch of little jutsu would give incentive for creative plays. The biggest downside is the hit to medical research; I don't see us figuring out something like biological immortality with this setup.

Discuss.

I honestly think it would be better to have him dump Diplomacy instead of medic stuff. Noburi seems to really enjoy helping people out with medical ninjutsu, and he has become a lot more confident and socially secure, so i don't think he would have a Problem with that. As you have suggested before, Akane could work just as well as our main diplomancer.
 
I honestly think it would be better to have him dump Diplomacy instead of medic stuff. Noburi seems to really enjoy helping people out with medical ninjutsu, and he has become a lot more confident and socially secure, so i don't think he would have a Problem with that. As you have suggested before, Akane could work just as well as our main diplomancer.
With what XP though? Addins socials to her build totally breaks the bank.
 
I honestly think it would be better to have him dump Diplomacy instead of medic stuff. Noburi seems to really enjoy helping people out with medical ninjutsu, and he has become a lot more confident and socially secure, so i don't think he would have a Problem with that. As you have suggested before, Akane could work just as well as our main diplomancer.

Yeah, this brings us to the team setup. My current vision has been something like this:

Two teams, one specializes in socialization and the other on Stealth and combat finishers.
  • Team Talky
    • Hazou, Deception and Sealing
    • Nobby, Diplomacy and Medicine
  • Team Stalky
    • Keiko, Summons, Stealth, Ranged Weapons
    • Akane, Traps, Stealth, Fire Jutsu
Most of that is based on temperament of the character (Keiko doesn't like talking, Nobby wants attention), but those are just questions of character development (some of which has already happened) and we could swap Nobby with Keiko or Akane. Here's some thoughts in the form of bullet points.
  • Diplomancer Keiko
    • Needs diplo for pangolin contracts anyway
    • Will have high status among ninjas as a summoner anyway
    • - Doesn't like to be the center of attention
  • Diplomancer Akane
    • Inspiring youthfulness
  • Stealth Nobby
    • Meshes with Vampiric Dew and mist production
    • Barrel is not a problem for someone hiding already
    • - Doesn't like to be sidelined

Currently we are not too deep into our builds that we couldn't change things up if we want to.
 
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