That was the old mechanic, which is why it was reworked. The new mechanic is as-yet unsimulated, as far as I know.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- Europe
Okay, now we have ~22 hours to vote in that plan.
I reformatted the the argument against the mind scan into something more plausible. Feedback appreciated as usual.
I reformatted the the argument against the mind scan into something more plausible. Feedback appreciated as usual.
- Jiraya already knows that we were not lying in our report and that we are not intentional working against him
- We showed up, that should be the biggest indicator of our honesty
- We are still alive and he is already talking about the next mission
- Besides himself, he has two specialist there who can tell if we are lying
- There's six of us, no way all of us (read: anyone besides Mari) can lie successfully at this level
- Meaning he is just fishing for extra information out of greed more than need, and we know it
- Messing with a person's mind is pretty much the worst violation of privacy possible, it will absolutely poison our relationship
- Jiraya is now on the right side of force and we can't really do anything about it, so this will not be apparent immediately
- Does Jiraya really think that fear is a good way to foster loyalty and performance in his assets for long term?
- The problem is that this incident is not something that we will forget, and it will affect our long term decision making
- Of course, if this mission is just a suicide mission to get rid of us, we can see the point of pumping us empty of useful info now
- Jiraya is now on the right side of force and we can't really do anything about it, so this will not be apparent immediately
- Why doesn't Jiraya just ask for the information he wants to get out of us
- It's not like we are good enough liars to fool all of them anyway
- The mind jutsu is probably not all powerful, why risk missing out on stuff when you can just ask us and get better results?
- Futher arguments: Mind scan will negatively affect our mission performance
- No idea what Jiraya's mental profiles about us say, but to us it is pretty evident that all of our our team members have issues
- Kagome: Clearly has mental issue, from tragedy to sealing experiments gone wrong; if you mind scan him he won't be functional for the time window of the mission
- Inoue: Has cartloads of mental baggage, secrets, and trauma that she won't even admit to herself; even the chance that someone might dig any of it up will compromise her performance
- The Genin: 13-14 year old kids who have been one traumatic incident to the next
- Mori, Kurosawa, Wakahisa: Mental bloodlines, interaction with mind jutsu might be really bad
- The whole process will just exacerbate our individual issues, which leads to more stress on our already strained team dynamic and will culminate in bad performance in the field
- Fallback options if Jiraya insists
- They don't need to mind scan all of us, our preferred list of mind scan targets would be:
- Akane, Hazou, Noburi, Keiko, Mari, Kagome
- Since Jiraya is clearly doing this to fish information instead of verifying our truthfulness, we want the following things in compensation for the mind scan:
- SHINY STUFF
- Really, does anyone have anything we should ask for here?
- They don't need to mind scan all of us, our preferred list of mind scan targets would be:
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
We should also request nonlethal takedown methods from him. If he has access to any airborne paralytic that would be ideal, and would make our job a lot easier than if we had to gather that from dragonflies on our own.
In the ten days between now and her arrival, Keiko should try to find a Military Police Pangolin willing to help in the takedown (coming back every night) -- we can test if Pandaa can reverse summon her to the Human Path, which would make this easier. We could also try to teach Pandaa how to henge to make his time here a little more stealthy.
In the ten days between now and her arrival, Keiko should try to find a Military Police Pangolin willing to help in the takedown (coming back every night) -- we can test if Pandaa can reverse summon her to the Human Path, which would make this easier. We could also try to teach Pandaa how to henge to make his time here a little more stealthy.
Can Pandaa not henge?
If not, wouldn't it be better to try to trade the technique to the pangolins for one of theirs?
Edit: or at least make a point of formally gifting henge to them in order to foster goodwill.
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I believe you meant Animal Path?
Pangolins don't gain XP (within the timeframe of the Quest). Unless they have unspent XP, and are willing to spend it on a couple levels of Henge, and they have the right shape of chakra coils to be able to learn it, which seems rather unlikely since it requires handseals, we won't be able to do that.
Good try, though.
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
Do they not, or do they level up skills the way Mari and Kagome do - in the background when the QMs think it's appropriate?
E:
Also, no. The experiment is to see if Pandaa, left on the Human Path when another pangolin calls Kei to the Animal Path, can move somewhere else and then call Keiko to him.
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The mechanics play second fiddle to things making sense. It doesn't make sense that pangolins can never learn new techniques. Also, if Akane can learn a pangolin technique (albeit with issues pangolins don't have) then it doesn't follow that Pandaa can't learn a human technique, so long as he has similar issues.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
He's a part of the party, we may as well treat him as one. The question, though, is less whether the pangolin can henge and whether HE can.
The issue is that Pandaa is a subject of the polemarch first and a teammate second. If the polemarch ordered him to drop Kei he would. We're not just dealing with a friend and teammate. We're dealing with a friend and teammate who is an ambassador to us of a sovereign foreign power.
That means that if we want to give him techniques, we have to be aware that we're also giving those techniques to the pangolins as a whole, which means that the whole thing needs to be framed in terms of diplomacy. We're not just sharing weapons with a teammate, we're also either giving a gift to, or trading with, an allied military state.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
New mechanics aren't defined yet. We'll need to do some work on it.
So, I just did a bunch of math. If YFotMBTiRSaT adds it's level x 2 to the final result, here's whereabouts Akane would be. On average Akane would lose to someone with taijutsu 17, but beat someone with taijutsu 16, assuming that the bonus to the final result given by YFotMBTiRSaT can't take it from negative to positive. It reduces the chance of her actually being damaged by someone with taijutsu 12 from .16 to around .045, which is around the chance it would be if Akane had Taijutsu 17. Under that system, YFotMBTiRSaT 6 seems to boost Akane's taijutsu level to only around 16.5. So, under that system 1 point in YFotMBTiRSaT would probably be worth around 1/4 of a point in taijutsu.
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- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
Do you happen to have numbers for what the situation would look like if it could take it from - to +?
If it could, then as she is, with the pangolin jutsu off, Akane would be around equal with someone with taijutsu 17. If she boosted YFotMBTiRSaT to 10, she would be about equal to someone with taijutsu 19. This would mean that each level in YFotMBTiRSaT would be worth approximately 0.4 levels in taijutsu.
It's actually a lot easier to calculate that way.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I would be personally interested in a fighting style that had that as a possibility for Akane. She's... very determined when it comes to fighting, and is willing to take hits that others would balk at.
- Location
- Europe
Youthful Fist is an interesting topic, but I would really like it better if we saved it for a time when we don't need to come up with a plan.
Some things we should ask from J for the mission.
Some things we should ask from J for the mission.
- Information about Sarubetsu and Rice
- Who is in charge of the place?
- Does the place have ninjas? Do we know anything about them?
- Are there ninja forces in Rice and what should we know about them?
- Information about Arikada
- Any useful personality quirks, phobias etc.?
- Anything that could work as a lure for a trap?
- Non-lethal take-down options
- Poisons or airborne toxins
- Paralysis seals or similar
- Basic ninja equipment
- Sealing paper and ink
- Kunai, ninja wire etc.
- Whatever Akane needs for her thing
- Trap nets that won't disintegrate immediately with ninja strength
- We have few days to train
- Keiko and Nobby have plenty of XP
- Hazou and Akane don't
- Pangolin help would be nice
- Option 1: Combat Pangolin (for murdering shit)
- Option 2: Sensory Pangolin (for finding people to murder, and traps)
- Seals
- What else do we want besides the standard BOOM and PMYF?
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I did a bit more math. All of this is If YFotMBTiRSaT can take the final result from - to +. If the multiplier is 2.5 instead of 2, Akane with 15 taijutsu and 10 YFotMBTiRSaT is approximately equal to someone at taijutsu 20, and if it's 3, she's approxomately equal to someone at taijutsu 21. This means that every .5 increase in the multiplier corresponds roughly to a .1 increase in the number of taijutsu each point of YFotMBTiRSaT is worth (ie, with the multiplier = 2.5, YFotMBTiRSaT = .5 taijutsu, and with the multiplier equal to 3.0, YFotMBTiRSaT = .6 taijutsu)
EDIT: Yeah, I'll stop with the sidetracking for the moment.
EDIT: Yeah, I'll stop with the sidetracking for the moment.
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- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
These seem good - am working on an amalgamated plan right now, should be up in the next ~15-20 mins and will try to add more to these lists
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
What density/area of mist does a macerator-mist at max volume provide? @OliWhail @eaglejarl @Velorien
- Location
- Europe
So, assuming that Keiko even has the time, what sort of pangolin would we want to have for this mission?
My two favorite options would be a combat pangolin to take hits in combat, or a sensory pangolin who we could use to spot either ninjas or sealing traps from afar.
Are there other sort of specialists we might want? I doubt Keiko will have the time to get make more than one contract, so we should pick our favorite.
My two favorite options would be a combat pangolin to take hits in combat, or a sensory pangolin who we could use to spot either ninjas or sealing traps from afar.
Are there other sort of specialists we might want? I doubt Keiko will have the time to get make more than one contract, so we should pick our favorite.
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
Post-update edit: added specifics to "anti-sealer techniques" question for QM convenience
[X] Action Plan: Hopefully Not Cthulu
Goals
As always, feel free to stop the update at an appropriate point before the whole plan is done - suggestions would be as we leave for Sarubetsu, after initial Sarubetsu recon, or after our trip to Iron.
[X] Action Plan: Hopefully Not Cthulu
Goals
- Get through the rest of the meeting unscathed and in good standing with J
- Make our way to the town the target is expected to appear near and perform initial recon/contingency preparation
As always, feel free to stop the update at an appropriate point before the whole plan is done - suggestions would be as we leave for Sarubetsu, after initial Sarubetsu recon, or after our trip to Iron.
- Before getting scanned:
- Mari gets over her brain fart and brings up the following (or Hazou does, if she forgets):
- Hydra foundation and its possible connection to Orochi-tan (J probably already knows, but it's still good to make sure)
- Info we have on on employer + Mr. Spy
- Address the following concerns unless they get brought up by someone else or Mari cuts us off:
- Ask if there are weird interactions between the Yamanaka jutsu and bloodlines, especially ones that affect the mind / nervous system / chakra system.
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- It sounds like Agent Black already knows we're telling the truth, and that J is already confident we're loyal operatives given that we showed up, we were honest, and he's giving us a mission.
- This makes it seem like the scan is just to obtain information not relevant to the current situation.
- Can he guarantee that Agent Black will only be certifying our honesty, and not digging up clan secrets/military intel/the Pangolin Clan secrets Akane and/or Keiko have sworn to keep/Pangolin Guardian info?
- If not, we need to start negotiating for those things or (in the case of the guardian) can just tell him, and he should be aware that we know at least one highly classified multi-village secret (Agent Black is probably cleared to know it given her presence here, but just in case).
- If so, there's no real gain on his end, as pointed out above. Is the damage to our working relationship and potentially to our mission performance (he saw how badly Kagome reacted) worth it?
- Either way, making us go through a violation of our deepest level of privacy and shifting the already comical balance of power even further in his favor risks producing resentment and discontent that can't possibly be beneficial for long-term growth in performance and loyalty of us as assets.
- Would one or a couple of us being scanned be sufficient? Hazou can volunteer if J wants to check that he isn't resisting for duplicitous purposes iff J guarantees that's all Agent Black will look for OR we've already negotiated our secrets away.
- Mari gets over her brain fart and brings up the following (or Hazou does, if she forgets):
- Get scanned, hopefully don't cause a war with Mist and/or accidentally break the Yamanaka's fragile little mortal brain
- If we get to pick order, Kagome is free to go last so he can verify the rest of us haven't been affected.
- Order of who should be exempted, if that's an option: Kagome (paranoia, Black already knows he wasn't lying), Keiko (pangolin/clan secrets and concern about bloodline), Mari (military secrets and jutsu), Akane (pangolin secrets), Noburi (clan secrets), Hazou (clan secrets)
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- How small is "small town" and who's in charge of it? Does the place have ninjas, and if so what intel can we get on them?
- Are there organized ninja forces in Rice as a whole we should know about?
- What support is available to us for this mission?
- Reversible paralytics especially. (J doesn't happen to have paralysis seals handy?)
- Anti-sealer techniques or seals? (Where they hide things on their person, takedown methods less likely to result in Cthulu, seal detection techniques or seals?)
- Any contacts in the area?
- Updated code words / why Joutarou didn't respond to ours? We'd really like to not fight any other agents.
- Cash so we can get shit ourselves and not bother J
- Basic supplies
- Sealing paper and ink
- Kunai, ninja wire etc.
- Trapmaking materials for Akane, esp. nets that won't disintegrate immediately with ninja strength
- Tips and tricks on making contracts quickly?
- (If we expect accelerated healing will help) Does J object to us getting in touch with his medic contact in Yuni for healing?
- Any known personality traits of Arakida? Personality quirks, phobias, vices?
- Run to Sarubetsu for initial recon
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- Identify locals in positions of power, try and figure out leverage points to make sure they help us or at least don't interfere with us
- Keep an eye out for people who may be contacts of Arakida, e.g. new people in town, people placed highly in organized crime or ninja business
- Track the traffic to, from and inside the town
- How many people come and go and when? How is the traffic controlled?
- Where do people congregate and when?
- Where do travelers stop inside the town - Inns, resorts etc.
- Who owns them? Where do they get their food and other services?
- Keep an ear open for notable current events
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- Map out the town and area, identifying routes of approach, places travelers stop to rest, spots for ambushes
- Any natural obstacles surrounding the town?
- Large bodies of water for a chakra refill? Rivers for quick movement?
- Any interesting chakra monsters around?
- Keiko should try and make at least one new contract over the course of the week. Hazou recommends either a sensory specialist (to make sure we catch Arakida) or a combat specialist (to make sure we beat her), preferrably both. She should come back each night unless there's a particular reason to stay, in which case we trust her judgement.
- Tell Pandaa he has to send her back if she thinks we sent her away again.
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- Ask about Mari's minutes-lasting genjutsu - how does it work, what are its limits. Relatedly, work on developing better protect-the-mage tactics for when she's zoned out, and see about obtaining binoculars to try and extend her range.
- Kagome - how good is his transformation, given that he got a (sarcastic?) compliment on it? Can he take on animal shapes yet? (Certainly knows about the possibility, given the ferret he made Hazou blow up back in like ch 26) Ask about why people don't go around henged as themselves most of the time to prevent aging/illness.
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- Make a trip to Iron, unless we have an alternative paralytic AND we would get no benefit from a couple days of accelerated healing in Yuni/we are forbidden from contacting the Yuni medic
- (If J doesn't provide an alternative) Collect samples of paralytic wasp powder, test on animals and chakra beasts to see if it's permanent and/or stops breathing, test macerator delivery by Keiko
- (If it will make a difference to our combat capabilities and J allows it) Spend some time getting accelerated healing in Yuni. If possible, Noburi should take this opportunity to brush up on his skills, possibly offering payment or assistance in exchange.
- Keiko should keep working on finding contracts, or help setting up and analyzing tests of the powder if she's already found them.
- Get to Sarubetsu at least two full days ahead of Arakida's earliest expected arrival.
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- Be theret least a couple days ahead of Arakida's earliest expected appearance
- On the way, look out for anyone else approaching the town, since we'll be coming from roughly the west and our intel says Arakida will be doing the same
- Begin surveillance of roads into the town, as well as of areas to the west
- Set up multiple escape and meetup contingencies in the area - Kagome and Akane's jobs to trap/explodify the routes
- Mari and Team Talky continue investigating the town
- Mari takes point on sniffing out/ hunting down/ eliminating Arakida's contacts, but the boys should be present for backup whenever possible.
- Noburi and Hazou get experience by taking point on pulling whatever influence levers the team found when we were here the first time
- Keiko should keep working on finding contracts, or help puzzle out who Arakida may be meeting if she's already found them.
- Buy any supplies Jiraiya doesn't provide us with while in Iron
- Prepare what we think are sufficient quantities of exploding tags, directional explosives, PMYF tags, and macerator seals loaded with sawdust, mist, and toxin, then make like 10% more
- Check whether the party, Kagome in particular, objects to what we assume is putting this lady into sealing slavery strongly enough to turn down an open-ended favor from J.
- Travel under long range movement SOP.
- If Hazou senses questioning emotions given his resolution toward changing the Elemental nations, he should redirect them to how he feels about the stuff that he's seen and knows re: civilians, scorch squads, etc.
- If QMs allow it, spend time training (esp Kei, Noburi) - weapons/deal making/ stealth or tacmov, water whip/ VD/ medic stuff (if we go to Yuni) - will get back to you on how much to buy.
- Ask J about the situation at the academy we mentioned last time (Mizuki, but don't say the name unless he does)
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
So, our ideal situation for taking out miss Arikada would be OUTSIDE of this town in a preemptive strike before she's able to get any defenses set up, while she's traveling, correct?
I cannot recall, do we expect her to have an escort on the way TO this town, or just when she leaves with Orochimaru's agents?
I cannot recall, do we expect her to have an escort on the way TO this town, or just when she leaves with Orochimaru's agents?
- Location
- Europe
Do we really have the time to waste hunting bugs in Iron? We should be preparing the playing field and rooting out agents of Arikada's contact in the town.
What is this doing in the plan? We are just setting up the pieces, no need to start executing the mission with this plan.
I think we need a bit more coordinated response than just asking for it.
Jiraiya said a week minimum.
It'll take less than a day to get to Iron. We can spend that evening and the following morning hunting bugs and getting a giant heap of their paralytic powder. Then we spend the afternoon of the second day travelling back to Rice.
Still five days left to prep the field.
- Location
- Europe
Well, actually what he said was:
If we are looking at this from a game logic perspective then yes, that means she won't show up before the week is up.
If we pretend that this is a real world thing and ignore the game logic, then we should get to Sarubetsu now in case she shows up before projected. Rooting out her contact will also take a lot of time.
I don't know, the game logic option might not be that bad. How sure are we that the wasps are still there and can we even find the place with certainty?
Pretty sure.
Kagome lived there for 15(?) years and we could just dig back through the thread to count as Hazou remembering where it is.
And ecosystems tend to not collapse in under a year.