- Location
- United States
An immense amount of greed fills _The_Bomb's eyes as he dreams of acquiring one of Orochimaru's utility seals.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
An immense amount of greed fills _The_Bomb's eyes as he dreams of acquiring one of Orochimaru's utility seals.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Look, I love Kagome, but if the choices are "The world fuckin ends" or "Kagome's feelings get hurt" .... sorry Kagome, but like, grow up????
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Force Domes, not Force Walls. Those are something very different.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Rip.
Wait, can we use Force Domes to trap them inside and protect our RERs? Going in the plan.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
No. But Force Domes take 30 seconds to go up. So if we activate them and then our Cannon Event happens it's fine.
[x] Action Plan: Brainstorming Cooperation
To the team: We've been thinking about what Mari said. And figured it's worth brainstorming whether living under Akatsuki would be worthwhile. And if we could make diplomatic deals with them to make it better. Before doing the assault.
Brainstorm
To the team: We've been thinking about what Mari said. And figured it's worth brainstorming whether living under Akatsuki would be worthwhile. And if we could make diplomatic deals with them to make it better. Before doing the assault.
Brainstorm
- Location
- Seattle
HAZOU: listen guys I get the snake man is scary but rn the other option is eternal slavery turbo death extreme edition unless you are mysteriously holding onto some ideas
KEI: hazou you already made up your mind and I am upset with you
MARI: did we consider that eternal slavery turbo death extreme sounds pretty chill actually? I am bringing this up after already sacrificing my cozy life and personal growth to help you research nukes in the woods about it
I've loved this story and these characters for a very long time now but that chapter felt genuinely bewildering to read. Aren't y'all, like, battle hardened ninjas who have already done multiple world-stakes decisions? What happened?? If Hazou keeled over in the woods tomorrow from this surgery the rest of the team would stand around slack jawed, staring vacantly, and slowly starve to death until Pain showed up to make them do something.
I seriously have to be missing something here, does the rest of the team just not actually believe in the Rift still or something? They think Pain isn't a relevant threat and the worst case is "only" being ruled by Itachi et al?
KEI: hazou you already made up your mind and I am upset with you
MARI: did we consider that eternal slavery turbo death extreme sounds pretty chill actually? I am bringing this up after already sacrificing my cozy life and personal growth to help you research nukes in the woods about it
I've loved this story and these characters for a very long time now but that chapter felt genuinely bewildering to read. Aren't y'all, like, battle hardened ninjas who have already done multiple world-stakes decisions? What happened?? If Hazou keeled over in the woods tomorrow from this surgery the rest of the team would stand around slack jawed, staring vacantly, and slowly starve to death until Pain showed up to make them do something.
I seriously have to be missing something here, does the rest of the team just not actually believe in the Rift still or something? They think Pain isn't a relevant threat and the worst case is "only" being ruled by Itachi et al?
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Why didn't we just say that we're going to have the coils removed as soon as we're finished with them? Because we are, right? Tsunade is going to owe us the mother of all favours (e.g., we personally avenged the death of many people she cared about, and saved the world) and if she can't bully Orochimaru into pulling them out, then...I dunno, man.
...what the everliving fuck?
Up until the last paragraph I was entirely ready to punt Mari through a window. I find myself now only incrementally less inclined to do so - being worried about us falling under Orochimaru's control as opposed to being worried we'll die is at least more understanding but honestly feels like her trying to present a reason we care about as opposed to her actual feelings on the matter.
Whatever, it'll get discussed more later.
I'm still at least a little steamed, here. Kei agrees that living under the Akatsuki is nonviable and that she has no other solution, and this is what we get? No 'thank you for personally shouldering this massive risk', no 'we understand and love you, too'? I have these people modelled really wrong, I guess. They're...very scared of Dark Lord Hazo?
Kagome really needs to come to terms with the fact that while biosealing is crazier than regular sealing the sanity gap between not sealing and sealing is larger than sealing and biosealing.
The most generous interpretation I have here is that no one is even remotely prepared for Hazo to die and they're all coping with the very real possibility extremely badly.
Cool, at least that went well. It'll be nice to have Noburi alongside - he might actually be able to help out or learn something.
I really would have liked to see some of the well-wishes, I think. It would have helped with the sense of...whatever it is that I'm feeling about the rest of Uplift. Kagome tearfully clapping us on the shoulder would have been nice to see if only to confirm the current status of our relationship (he thinks we're dead or worse).
I'm also pretty sure that if we died Mari would not in fact proliferate the principles behind EM but it's sure nice of her to act like she might convincingly enough for us to have a deadman switch.
...Noburi, what the fuck?
Are you totally incapable of modelling people? You aren't. I've seen your character sheet.
There is no world in which you insult someone vastly more powerful than you are to their face and they then let you into their operating room. You've worked with surgeons. You know this. Did Tsunade give him some Orochimaru tips but fail to mention that they don't work unless you can also kick him through a cliff face? Is he trying to emulate Tsunade? That would be plausible, although similarly poorly-thought-out.
This sinks any chance that he gets to observe or help.
Nice cover, Hazo, and way to totally blow it, Noburi. Did Orochimaru get to them?
Does Noburi have no respect for the chain of command? Did they not talk about how to play this on the way over? Hazo isn't nearly annoyed enough for Noburi to be departing from their agreed-upon script, so...what did they talk about on the way over?
The play for Noburi was to shut up, suck up, and be quiet. He wanted to watch for the sole purpose of possibly learning something.
Orochimaru is not a trustworthy source of information. Paying attention to any of this is not important or useful except insofar as listening is required to respond. There is no informational value in these words.
It's not cowardice when it's founded, Uncle. It's sensible fear for your life.
Okay, cool - we have landed this. There was no other way it could really go, as long as everyone was acting rationally (and Noburi didn't ruin everything by being stupid and failing to use his social skills) but it's still gratifying to see.
Interesting: he intends to bargain with respect to reviving people. That's either a throwaway line to make us like him better or...he knows he actually needs us.
Anyway, we get Jiraiya back and go from there.
I'll take it. We still need to actually talk turkey, and figure out what research he might want us to do, and he's going to need to share a hell of a lot more with us than he has to even out the whole 'here are many many rune designs' thing before we start talking about him assigning us projects, but...I can live with that, on the whole.
Neat, we get our oath and it only cost the life of a child.
I think this went as well as it could have gone. I would have liked Noburi not to interfere and instead to make a smart social play, but we got what we wanted and we haven't damaged our relationship with Orochimaru overmuch.
Well, you miss all the shots you don't take.
Yeah, Noburi, what the fuck else did you think was going to happen? The second reason is the real one: Orochimaru knows he's attended surgeries with Tsunade and therefore knows how to keep his mouth shut and stay out of the way. You pissed him off.
I wonder if that was our Iron Nerve reassuring smile. Probably?
Alright, that'll do.
...really, Uncle? Volunteer? You can just say you kidnapped and killed him. You know it, Noburi knows it, we know it.
Now let's get Noburi to check us out and see what's what.
So, we privately ask Tsunade about the procedures and Orochimaru's potential betrayal. We ask her to scan us. We see what she says. If she gives us any bullshit we remind her that Hiruzen threw Orochimaru out of Leaf for crimes against humanity and that she actually does fucking owe us and that she really doesn't want us to go over to the Dark Side.
We ask to see Hebikyotei every month, except no we don't because we have Tsunade carve these seals out of us the moment we're finished here. The extra capacity is something we can get on his own and Orochimaru will understand the logic behind not wanting someone else's bioseals in your body.
Cool. The amount of practice required is either in the QM queue or it'll be revealed to us over time?
You love to see it, and way better than my last interact-with-Orochimaru-plan which had us buy, like, 10 FP because we would have had a Bad End otherwise. I consider myself redeemed.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
For what it's worth, I share the confusion. They're speaking Greek to me too.
Same here. I don't get it. It's honestly bizarre at this point. I don't understand, and am reconsidering trusting them as our advisors. Their advice is just shit.
- Location
- Seattle
Despite being here since 2016 I'm like, 99% a story-only lurker who just loves the authors and sometimes pops into Discord when I'm confused about a plan or something. But this is pretty easily the most disconnected I've felt from the main characters at this point.
I feel vaguely bad about contributing to the internet problem of "enjoy in silence, critique out loud" about it - this story has brought me a lot of joy for like 8 years now! - but I just... really can't figure out what's going on? Mari being worried about Uplift is sweet, it's interesting character growth on her part, and it also has literally nothing to do with my model of what is currently happening and at stake in the story.
I feel vaguely bad about contributing to the internet problem of "enjoy in silence, critique out loud" about it - this story has brought me a lot of joy for like 8 years now! - but I just... really can't figure out what's going on? Mari being worried about Uplift is sweet, it's interesting character growth on her part, and it also has literally nothing to do with my model of what is currently happening and at stake in the story.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
you did a huge amount of work this cycle and i am happy to see that it has paid off! (at least in the short-term)
- Location
- Yes.
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped Some people in-thread and on Discord have commented on it, so I'm asking for clarity: How much of Noburi's actions during the conversation with Orochimaru were scripted based on the preceding (off-screen) conversation with Uplift to prepare for said conversation? I've been running on the assumption that he was deliberately putting on the face of the rude, but worried brother figure.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Seconding all of the sentiments here, save for the notion that there was some debt/dishonor to redeem yourself of. Shit happens, we survived.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
lmao thanks bro.
Entirely fair, snuncle. Bro was kinda trippin'.
everybody in thread freaking out over the fam not being happy about Hazo's apparent suicide Is kinda annoying. They're all bitching about inaccurate modeling of scary snake guy but can't model that our family loves us more than they hate the enemy.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
It's not just that. It's that, and everything prior. This is just the latest in a long line of data points that have us collectively going "what the fuck" regarding the team's behavior this past arc.
Shit on our bafflement if you want, but don't be reductionist about our complaints.
- Location
- Seattle
I mean, again, I'm not trying to be salty or something. But "just don't use runes" or whatever is ALSO just suicide, right? And Mari and Kei aren't like, my real life mom and sister having a freak out, they're deathworld mega genuises with blood on their hands who have personally seen the stakes very viscerally already, they should be able to understand this. I just can't pin down the disconnect at this point, I really have no idea what they're thinking.
I am baffled because they consistently suggest stupid alternatives that will also get Hazou killed.
Not using runes?
Letting Akatsuki win?
Hazou doesn't survive those situations. They will kill us in the assualt or hunt us to extinction.
That is the baffling thing, they appear to have no grasp of the stakes, and they should.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Well I'm not exactly planning on typing an argumentative essay about it.
This is just more of the same that we've seen from them before, nothing significant has changed since our last few conversations with them, so I don't expect their reactions to suddenly do a 180 either. And I commented on their response and the thread's reaction previously, so all that's left to say at this point is: hey look more of the exact same thing as last time.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Look man, if you are a writer and a solid chunk of the people who regularly engage with and discuss your story are actively communicating that they are getting really confused, I mean really confused on how your characters are being written, then that's pretty valuable feedback in my opinion. If you aren't getting that feedback in some way or another, then how can you iterate on that when it comes to your craft? I would bet you that there is at least one author in this thing that values the comms there.
Now EJ, Vel, and Paper can highlight all of that communication and go "Look folks... ehhhhhh? Feedback acknowledged, but we just don't really care lol" and, though my eyebrows would be raised a bit at that response, I would say "Alright, fair enough. Your rodeo folks." and shrug and leave it at that.
No need to throw mud pre-emptively over it though? Like, geez, come on.
- Location
- Yes.
They don't care about the rest of the world as much as they do Team Uplift. Hazou is proposing to get biosealed by Orochimaru to improve their chances of beating Akatsuki. They don't care as much about Akatsuki winning as they do Hazou dying; from their perspective, Hazou getting biosealed means he will die/get enslaved imminently (if not during the battle, then immediately after), whereas if Akatsuki wins, Team Uplift still has options to survive and run away, even if they are low odds assuming a dedicated Akatsuki.
- Pronouns
- She/Her/They/Them
[X] Apparently Develop Inexplicable Yet Irresistible Urge To Play Table Tennis
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped By the way, I'm guessing the answer is no, but does having a Lightning ninja's coils stapled onto his give Hazo access to the Lightning element, even temporarily, or otherwise interact with knowing or training any elements the "donor" had?
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ohhhhkay. As my high school science teacher friend once told me: when one student misses a question, it's on the student. When the whole class misses the question, it's on the person who wrote the question. Seeing as apparently every single person is misunderstanding what's happening, I clearly didn't put enough tonal markings in. So, I don't normally do this, but let's explicate:
Your family knows perfectly well that Akatsuki is a huge threat and you have doubled/tripled down on beating them and that not beating them is almost certainly going to result in Hazō's death at some point in the mid- to long-term future.
They also firmly believe that having Orochimaru operate on you is going to certainly result in your death in the short-term future.
Mari knows the deal. When she says "would Akatsuki be so bad" you should read that as "I am certain that you are about to die, be enslaved, or be corrupted and I cannot think of any viable alternatives. Let me reach back into the half-baked sections of my thoughts and review ground-truth assumptions to see if there's a possibility that we were wrong about something and could therefore find a third option." (Incidentally: remember when Kei got pissy with Hazō during the Isan mission because she asked you for ideas, you didn't have any good ones, so you offered some half-baked ones in hopes that batting them back and forth could polish them into something useful, and you assumed that she would interpret them charitably and understand that this is what you were doing? Yes, SV, you are Kei.)
Noburi knows the deal. Both with Akatsuki and with Orochimaru. He is also utterly terrified of Orochimaru and wants to run for the damn hills at the thought of standing next to him while Orochimaru carves Hazō open. Still, he cares about Hazō enough to force those fears down and make himself walk to what he knows is going to be one of the most traumatic experiences of his life. When he got there, he sublimated his fears into aggression -- not a good move but pretty common for frightened teenage boys, even ones who aren't murderchildren trained to use violence as a valid coping mechanism.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Your family knows perfectly well that Akatsuki is a huge threat and you have doubled/tripled down on beating them and that not beating them is almost certainly going to result in Hazō's death at some point in the mid- to long-term future.
They also firmly believe that having Orochimaru operate on you is going to certainly result in your death in the short-term future.
Mari knows the deal. When she says "would Akatsuki be so bad" you should read that as "I am certain that you are about to die, be enslaved, or be corrupted and I cannot think of any viable alternatives. Let me reach back into the half-baked sections of my thoughts and review ground-truth assumptions to see if there's a possibility that we were wrong about something and could therefore find a third option." (Incidentally: remember when Kei got pissy with Hazō during the Isan mission because she asked you for ideas, you didn't have any good ones, so you offered some half-baked ones in hopes that batting them back and forth could polish them into something useful, and you assumed that she would interpret them charitably and understand that this is what you were doing? Yes, SV, you are Kei.)
Noburi knows the deal. Both with Akatsuki and with Orochimaru. He is also utterly terrified of Orochimaru and wants to run for the damn hills at the thought of standing next to him while Orochimaru carves Hazō open. Still, he cares about Hazō enough to force those fears down and make himself walk to what he knows is going to be one of the most traumatic experiences of his life. When he got there, he sublimated his fears into aggression -- not a good move but pretty common for frightened teenage boys, even ones who aren't murderchildren trained to use violence as a valid coping mechanism.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Boop. Feel free to yoink. Ping me for ideas. Going to bed soon (still sick), but will read feedback tomorrow.