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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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On further reflection, the winning move is to (after defeating Akatsuki) ask Naruto for permission to share SC with Kagome and Noburi. If he says no, tell him that if he's unwilling to treat us as allies and offer us minimal recompense after all we've done for him, he's welcome to treat us like Orochimaru. Then inform him we've already taught them SC and dare him to do anything about it.

(For bonus points, don't tell Kei about any of this ahead of time.)
 
acidshill said:
On further reflection, the winning move is to (after defeating Akatsuki) ask Naruto for permission to share SC with Kagome and Noburi. If he says no, tell him that if he's unwilling to treat us as allies and offer us minimal recompense after all we've done for him, he's welcome to treat us like Orochimaru. Then inform him we've already taught them SC and dare him to do anything about it.

(For bonus points, don't tell Kei about any of this ahead of time.)
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I still argue that we should sanity-check it. Since we're talking to Naruto anyway, let's sanity-check it with him first.
 
Noumero said:
Doing it now is the politically cheapest way to do it. Naruto is going to wave it away with no second thoughts if we admit what we've done in the aftermath of the Akatsuki's destruction. If, however, we ask him for permission in the aftermath of the Akatsuki's destruction, I vividly see him repeating the same "responsible cost-benefit analysis is against this" spiel. Because, like, nothing's changed on that matter.
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Plus, if we can prove Kagome learning SC helps us develop the tech that saves Leaf, Naruto's probably not going to spend time trying to find arguments why it actually wasn't necessary.
 
[x] Shadow Clone for Kagome
Zampano said:
Testing seals with a 1-minute head start from the failure's epicenter might let him survive something where he would have otherwise died. Like, for example, if we have to steal the rift from Oro and replace it with the Bladehorror portal.
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Closer to two minutes with the right planning. Create the shadow clone five or six hundred yards from the point of interest, clone runs toward it while prime runs in the opposite direction.
acidshill said:
On further reflection, the winning move is to (after defeating Akatsuki) ask Naruto for permission to share SC with Kagome and Noburi. If he says no, tell him that if he's unwilling to treat us as allies and offer us minimal recompense after all we've done for him, he's welcome to treat us like Orochimaru. Then inform him we've already taught them SC and dare him to do anything about it.
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Claim they learned from Snowflake - who is an entity legally recognized BY Leaf, but not a citizen OF Leaf, thus not technically subject to the Hokage's authority - without Kei's orders. Snowflake was, nonetheless, sentenced to death for this heinous violation, and that sentence was successfully carried out, but she reincarnated later the same day.
MarsIronPI said:
If Kei had written plans <300 words would she have gotten bonus XP?
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No, that'd go to Tenten.
 
strange_person said:
Claim they learned from Snowflake - who is an entity legally recognized BY Leaf, but not a citizen OF Leaf, thus not technically subject to the Hokage's authority - without Kei's orders. Snowflake was, nonetheless, sentenced to death for this heinous violation, and that sentence was successfully carried out, but she reincarnated later the same day.
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Alas, you are too late. Snowflake persuaded Asuma to grant her citizenship, though he refused to give her ninja status, and warned her that it was conditional on her not inflicting any edge cases on him.
 
Velorien said:
Alas, you are too late. Snowflake persuaded Asuma to grant her citizenship, though he refused to give her ninja status, and warned her that it was conditional on her not inflicting any edge cases on him.
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Between the steaming pile of edge cases, and actual orders to go Missing from a subsequent hokage, that conditional grant could reasonably be considered to have been revoked, so my argument stands. With the right prep, Naruto might be left with no choice but to permanently enshrine civil rights for cognitively-independent shadow clones in general.
 
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Edit: Test ping, @Cariyaga.
Velorien said:
Alas, you are too late. Snowflake persuaded Asuma to grant her citizenship, though he refused to give her ninja status, and warned her that it was conditional on her not inflicting any edge cases on him.
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Aha, but did he specify that it was conditional on not inflicting any edge cases on him, or on the office of the Hokage? Because unless he bothered to specify the latter in an official manner, I think the former should be assumed by default, and why, this stunt would certainly not involve inflicting any edge cases on Sarutobi Asuma. Something something a much worse edge case was already inflicted on him.
 
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You all realize that "Shadow Clone for Kagome" is currently the winning plan, and that titles are overridden by content of which it currently has none, meaning I could just edit-in anything now and this would result in a valid plan that EJ might well decide to implement?

Hmm, I wonder what should I put in it. Try to commune with Jashin to negotiate, or go scout out Bear? Hm, hm.
 
Noumero said:
Aha, but did he specify that it was conditional on not inflicting any edge cases on him, or on the office of the Hokage? Because unless he bothered to specify the latter in an official manner, I think the former should be assumed by default, and why, this stunt would certainly not involve inflicting any edge cases on Sarutobi Asuma. Something something a much worse edge case was already inflicted on him.
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Velorien said:
"Consider yourself on indefinite probation," the Hokage said. "The second I get a complaint from the Merchant Council about a chakra-capable non-ninja threatening civilian business, or someone sues for injury because Kei dispels you and you end up dropping a heavy weight on someone's foot, or an ANBU has to use your name and 'Shadow Clone OPSEC' in the same sentence, or I learn you've exploited a loophole in a law meant for humans, or there is any edge case whatsoever that draws attention and makes people ask what a ninjutsu effect is doing walking around with person rights, you can expect the privilege of Fire citizenship to be withdrawn before you can say, 'Nara social experiment', together with whatever other freedoms I deem necessary."
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Noumero said:
You all realize that "Shadow Clone for Kagome" is currently the winning plan, and that titles are overridden by content of which it currently has none, meaning I could just edit-in anything now and this would result in a valid plan that EJ might well decide to implement?

Hmm, I wonder what should I put in it. Try to commune with Jashin to negotiate, or go scout out Bear? Hm, hm.
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I think it could reasonably be construed as a self-explanatory training plan, rather than a full action plan.
Noumero said:
Aha, but did he specify that it was conditional on not inflicting any edge cases on him, or on the office of the Hokage? Because unless he bothered to specify the latter in an official manner, I think the former should be assumed by default, and why, this stunt would certainly not involve inflicting any edge cases on Sarutobi Asuma.
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No, see, my angle is the revocation of that conditional grant is a desirable outcome, since it would temporarily put Snowflake back into a bizarre legal limbo, resolution of which can then be negotiated on far more favorable terms. Naruto has already established some remarkably favorable precedents for a missing-nin with knowledge of the shadow clone technique walking into his office, making ridiculous demands on thin pretext, and getting away with it.
 
Velorien said:
[snip]
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"The second I[, Sarutobi Asuma,] get a complaint", "or I[, Sarutobi Asuma,] learn" – good so far.

"Or there is any edge case whatsoever that draws attention and makes people ask what a ninjutsu effect is doing walking around with person rights" – hmm, this one is a bit trickier. But as long as this doesn't make more than one person ask "what a ninjutsu effect is doing walking around with person rights?", we're probably good, given the plural of "people". So as long as whatever Snowflake does is so beyond the pale that Naruto isn't willing to tell of this to anyone (and no, his SCs don't count as separate people, so that doesn't work (and if he grants them citizenship specifically to abuse this rule, we're going to raise a complaint with the Clan Council and Orochimaru, and oust him)), and we kill all witnesses that aren't willing to collude with us not to ask this question, we're golden.
 
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strange_person said:
No, see, my angle is the revocation of that conditional grant is a desirable outcome, since it would temporarily put Snowflake back into a bizarre legal limbo, resolution of which can then be negotiated on far more favorable terms. Naruto has already established some remarkably favorable precedents for a missing-nin with knowledge of the shadow clone technique walking into his office, making ridiculous demands on thin pretext, and getting away with it.
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Actually, that's worse. The likeliest scenario if Snowflake loses her citizenship is that she goes back to being a foreign legal entity with Kei as her sponsor, meaning Kei has legal responsibility for whatever Snowflake does.
 
Noumero said:
[x] Shadow Clone for Kagome
  • Teach Kagome Shadow Clone.
  • Reasoning:
    • Kagome knows that the rest of the Gouketsu are using SC to greatly enhance their training, and that his OPSEC issues make it unlikely the Hokage would ever approve teaching him. This doubtlessly contributes to his feelings about being left behind: that in the long-term, he'd have increasingly less ability to contribute, approaching zero.
    • SC likely won't be useful for him over the course of this mission. But teaching it to him now locks him into WHOOSH in the long-term, which would hopefully improve his mindset.
    • In addition, doing it nowis likely cheapest, in terms of political capital spent.
      • If we kill the Akatsuki, Naruto won't think twice of what we've done.
      • If, however, we ask permission to teach Kagome in the wake of the Akatsuki's deaths, it'll likely be another negotiations, with Naruto bringing out cost-benefit analyses that'd inevitably conclude it shouldn't be done.
      • Throwing our post-Akatsuki weight around to override him at that juncture is likely to cost more political capital than just doing it now and informing Naruto afterwards.
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Made it into an actual action plan just to ensure we don't have another Youthsuit incident, with Hazou becoming psychotically obsessed with teaching SC to Kagome. I'm such a responsible person.
 
Velorien said:
Actually, that's worse. The likeliest scenario if Snowflake loses her citizenship is that she goes back to being a foreign legal entity with Kei as her sponsor, meaning Kei has legal responsibility for whatever Snowflake does.
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The Hazō Fanclub is going to be so mad at Kei when Snowflake marries Hazō :p
 
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