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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Sir Stompy said:
Intended Duration: Until Rift-openers complete (until then/1.4 solar)
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Sir Stompy said:
Research
  • Track A: Microrift Rune -> Rift-opener
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Can you explain why you picked Rift-opener instead of a rift-mover? Rift opening seemed to me like one of the least-urgent rift runes, so I'd like to know what you're thinking.

My thought was we move the rift scar to a secure location, we can work on opening and exploring it at our leisure, but that opening it at it's current location isn't very useful to us.

What did I miss?
 
[X] Training Plan Hazou: Local Max
[X] Sealing SOP: Runemaster 2.0
[X] Action Plan: Lord of War
Left-Hand Mutant said:
Can you explain why you picked Rift-opener instead of a rift-mover? Rift opening seemed to me like one of the least-urgent rift runes, so I'd like to know what you're thinking.

My thought was we move the rift scar to a secure location, we can work on opening and exploring it at our leisure, but that opening it at it's current location isn't very useful to us.

What did I miss?
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It's the easiest one in the chain, IIRC. Not only do I expect us to need to research it to have enough veterancy for the later runes in the chain, I also kind of suspect we'll only be able to move the rift while it's open, not while it's a scar.
 
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Inferno Vulpix said:
[X] Training Plan Hazou: Local Max
[X] Sealing SOP: Runemaster 2.0
[X] Action Plan: Lord of War

It's the easiest one in the chain, IIRC. Not only do I expect us to need to research it to have enough veterancy for the later runes in the chain, I also kind of suspect we'll only be able to move the rift while it's open, not while it's a scar.
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QM statement is that the riftscar is a rift, just a really really small one.

Did we do prep days on Oro's rift runes that I missed?
I thought he probably researched all three side-by-side with shadow clone, so I expected similar difficulty for all of them.
 
Left-Hand Mutant said:
Can you explain why you picked Rift-opener instead of a rift-mover? Rift opening seemed to me like one of the least-urgent rift runes, so I'd like to know what you're thinking.

My thought was we move the rift scar to a secure location, we can work on opening and exploring it at our leisure, but that opening it at it's current location isn't very useful to us.

What did I miss?
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1) It's the easiest one in the chain, we need to build veterancy for the harder ones.
2) It makes zero sense to ever mix runes of different difficulties while dual tracking. All of those runes are Easy, so we'll do them together.

After this we'll probably finish Mirror Dragon -> Explosiver/Rift-unanchoring -> Rift-kicking all of which should be Medium.
 
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Rift Dragger
Rune
This rune attaches to a rift, and when the rune is moved, the rift is moved with it.

This exploits an advantage we have over Orochimaru/Naruto: while they need to haul the rune all the way to Leaf to work on it during the siege, we just need to move the rift far enough that the Akatsuki think it vanished/closed. A few miles is plenty to hide it until we're ready.
 
Left-Hand Mutant said:
QM statement is that the riftscar is a rift, just a really really small one.

Did we do prep days on Oro's rift runes that I missed?
I thought he probably researched all three side-by-side with shadow clone, so I expected similar difficulty for all of them.
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I personally suspect that Orochimaru has not researched these runes, so much as "this is the plan that Orochimaru thinks will have the highest likelihood of working". We didn't get notes or anything, I don't think, just an overview of what each rune would do.

I trust the rune chain anyways because, as I like to harp on about, one of the key differences between player Sealing and NPC Sealing is that NPCs like Orochimaru have the distinct talent of being able to home in on specific islands of stability in possibility-space. This isn't even as out-there as the time he demonstrated a high-power destructive seal that also happens to be snake-themed. Whatever Orochimaru's doing to figure out these answers, it's a reliable and immensely valuable ability. When he says that this is the best way to make rift-moving runes, as opposed to the countless other shot-in-the-dark options we could haphazardly guess, I believe him.
 
Left-Hand Mutant said:
Rift Dragger
Rune
This rune attaches to a rift, and when the rune is moved, the rift is moved with it.

This exploits an advantage we have over Orochimaru/Naruto: while they need to haul the rune all the way to Leaf to work on it during the siege, we just need to move the rift far enough that the Akatsuki think it vanished/closed. A few miles is plenty to hide it until we're ready.
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At 1"/min it will only take 44 days to drag the Rift 1 mile. Shouldn't be a problem :Hazoulook
 
RandomOTP said:
[x] Noburi Training Plan: Removing the Weights on Better Buffs
Hoz. Mantle 20 -> 29 (-112)
118 XP Remaining
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eaglejarl said:
Adhoc vote count started by eaglejarl on Oct 12, 2024 at 3:15 PM, finished with 201 posts and 16 votes.
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Voting is closed.
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@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped This training plan received 10 votes but yet hasn't been reflected on Noburi's sheet.
 
Sir Stompy said:
At 1"/min it will only take 44 days to drag the Rift 1 mile. Shouldn't be a problem :Hazoulook
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Can you point me to that? That would clearly sink the idea, but I really thought the runes were described as "a slow civilian's walking pace", so I expected more like 1km/hour.

Also, thanks for explaining your thinking. It's quite helpful to me.

Edit: found the passage I missread.
eaglejarl said:
Brief experimentation showed the problem: the rune did not like being moved quickly. It could be shifted very, very slowly, but the resistance ramped up faster than the force applied. Setting off at a normal civilian walking pace brought it to the same state of immobility as a skytower,
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Left-Hand Mutant said:
Can you point me to that? That would clearly sink the idea, but I really thought the runes were described as "a slow civilian's walking pace", so I expected more like 1km/hour.
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I'm having trouble finding the exact quote but it's out there. Regardless a walking civilian is much too fast. That quote was much easier to find.
eaglejarl said:
Brief experimentation showed the problem: the rune did not like being moved quickly. It could be shifted very, very slowly, but the resistance ramped up faster than the force applied. Setting off at a normal civilian walking pace brought it to the same state of immobility as a skytower, but as soon as you went back to pressing with infinite gentleness, it was happy to move again.
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The descent is sufficiently slow that they appear to hover to an observer (as we did with the TS), and their descent from table height is only really noticeable over the course of minutes.
 
ProperAttorney said:
It's possible we could stick the whole contraption in a Pokespacer and drag it along that way, but that requires a whole 'nother rune and seal (and we haven't even prepped the seal).
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Pokespacer is ...maybe... or Medium, I forgor which.

I'm not sure how this is supposed to work either, since to my understanding Pokespacer just creates an elision of space that connects to the rest of space through a point. So you can't move it without actually severing the...space(?) connecting the elision to unaltered space. Otherwise it just snaps back to where you started from.
 
Sir Stompy said:
I'm having trouble finding the exact quote but it's out there. Regardless a walking civilian is much too fast. That quote was much easier to find.


The descent is sufficiently slow that they appear to hover to an observer (as we did with the TS), and their descent from table height is only really noticeable over the course of minutes.
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Thanks.
I get you, rift opener to train veterancy makes the most sense.

ProperAttorney said:
It's possible we could stick the whole contraption in a Pokespacer and drag it along that way, but that requires a whole 'nother rune and seal (and we haven't even prepped the seal).
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Do you mean the spacial telescope thing?

Maybe we specify that our version of the orochimaru rift runes go inert/expended after a single use, so we can stash the spent runes in seals of the 7th path or wherever.
That's *probably* how it will work by default, but we really don't want to be stuck leaving active rift-openers and rift-unanchorer runes behind for Akatsuki to examine while their 1-month duration runs down.
 
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Sir Stompy said:
Pokespacer is ...maybe... or Medium, I forgor which.
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A maybe; we didn't have the finer-grained mechanics back then.
I'm not sure how this is supposed to work either, since to my understanding Pokespacer just creates an elision of space that connects to the rest of space through a point. So you can't move it without actually severing the...space(?) connecting the elision to unaltered space. Otherwise it just snaps back to where you started from.
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That is correct.

There are two possibilities for using Pokespacers for movement I'd previously described, though:
  • Perhaps the Pokespacer's aperture in the collapsed form would be similar enough to a rift for rift-moving runes (or their slight modifications) to work on it.
  • An Alcubierre Drive Rune, which could be optimized purely for travel speed in this case, since it would only need to move an infinitesimal volume (one to which the Pokespacer's aperture is attached) around.
Plausibly, either rune could be made to work on the Pokespacer's aperture from within the Pokespacer.
 
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So, on the note of near-future plans: First, we need to work otu what we're gonna say to Kagome on the topic of creating a rift. He will absolutely despise that we're trying this, and think that we're ignoring him (which we are).

Second: I believe that we currently have the capabilities (with RE) to take out the rift site. So, if we work out rift runes, I think we can pretty immediately take action to steal the rift.
 
Sir Stompy said:
Pokespacer is ...maybe... or Medium, I forgor which.

I'm not sure how this is supposed to work either, since to my understanding Pokespacer just creates an elision of space that connects to the rest of space through a point. So you can't move it without actually severing the...space(?) connecting the elision to unaltered space. Otherwise it just snaps back to where you started from.
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I hardly know how all the space topology stuff works. Ideally it would just let you slide the aperture around normal space, but I have no real way of knowing how it works.
 
Cariyaga said:
So, on the note of near-future plans: First, we need to work otu what we're gonna say to Kagome on the topic of creating a rift. He will absolutely despise that we're trying this, and think that we're ignoring him (which we are).

Second: I believe that we currently have the capabilities (with RE) to take out the rift site. So, if we work out rift runes, I think we can pretty immediately take action to steal the rift.
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I think it'd be preferable to steal the rift covertly, rather than violently, and replace it with different rift. So I'd prefer to wait on that until we develop some technology that would improve our chances of remaining unseen. Move to the violent solution only if Oro signals it's time.

Space-Contractors, if veterancy on them would allow to scale them to usable sizes, would be good for that. Position a few kilometers above the rift, collapse the space, creating a narrow and probably invisible tunnel from the sky to the rift; swap the rifts through the tunnel; leave without anyone the wiser.
 
I think we should do the Microrift Rune and not the seal since the former will be best for veterancy purposes and we're on the clock.

I think we just wave our hands at Kagome about it, he'll be upset and annoyed, we will nod sagely, remind him that it's this or Akatsuki-Lupchanz Universe or a convenient third option, and he will mutter darkly while we go ahead and do the thing anyway. Personally, I am fine with skipping that entire scene exchange, since its been done to death so much that Kagome himself directly lampshaded it within the last couple chapters. Not much value to be had there IMO.
 
Noumero said:
I think it'd be preferable to steal the rift covertly, rather than violently, and replace it with different rift. So I'd prefer to wait on that until we develop some technology that would improve our chances of remaining unseen.

Space-Contractors, if veterancy on them would allow to scale them to usable sizes, would be good for that. Position a few kilometers above the rift, collapse the space, creating a narrow and probably invisible tunnel from the sky to the rift; swap the rifts through the tunnel; leave without anyone the wiser.
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I don't disagree, but -- if we don't report this fact to Naruto in some way, then he will assume we did not do so, and put Leaf's forces out for an attack that doesn't matter.
 
Cariyaga said:
I don't disagree, but -- if we don't report this fact to Naruto in some way, then he will assume we did not do so, and put Leaf's forces out for an attack that doesn't matter.
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Skill issue?

Also, I don't really see what Naruto would even try attacking the Rift for, unless they think Akatsuki is reviving Pain right now/then, and they only have the one shot to stop them. Or Orochimaru is ready to do his own theft, but something tells me that if he was he wouldn't wait around for Naruto to okay it.
 
Spector29 said:
Skill issue?

Also, I don't really see what Naruto would even try attacking the Rift for, unless they think Akatsuki is reviving Pain right now/then, and they only have the one shot to stop them. Or Orochimaru is ready to do his own theft, but something tells me that if he was he wouldn't wait around for Naruto to okay it.
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Because Naruto told us that was the plan? They wait as long as they can, then they do a last minute rush for the rift.
 
Noumero said:
I think it'd be preferable to steal the rift covertly, rather than violently, and replace it with different rift. So I'd prefer to wait on that until we develop some technology that would improve our chances of remaining unseen. Move to the violent solution only if Oro signals it's time.

Space-Contractors, if veterancy on them would allow to scale them to usable sizes, would be good for that. Position a few kilometers above the rift, collapse the space, creating a narrow and probably invisible tunnel from the sky to the rift; swap the rifts through the tunnel; leave without anyone the wiser.
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Seems risky and likely lower value than a big alpha strike?
I have four main concerns:

Inventing the extra runes costs time, and risks Sasori/Naruto beating us to the punch.

Several Akatsuki have bullshit sensory powers that could foil a heist. I'd rather Kisame's first warning be him getting nuked, rather than sensing us messing with the rift and catching us in the act.

The rift scar is indoors, in a temple that has presumably been fortified by the on-site s-rank sealmaster. Accessing it will be difficult, and will put us against a bunch of unknown defences, which we would need to bypass tracelessly.

It's a great chance to eliminate two Akatsuki. Staging a sealing failure lets us reduce their forces by 33% without staring an all-out war. And normal SOP for Akatsuki pairs is to never be in a predictable location, so we might not have better chance for a runeic attack later. Put together, it's a good opportunity that we won't get again.
 
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