Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

[X] Action Plan: Cowardice and Ambition
[X] Action Plan: Octocats and Aunts and Uncles, Oh My!
Okay, here's what I've come up with while at work today. Discussion in thread has already made me think 1 should be changed or removed; happily taking recs. I want this to stay an ambitious, power hungry plan, however. The tone should alternate between frustrated working professionals and family pushing each others limits.

In Cowardice and Ambition we do a little treason against Leaf and Mist. In Octocats and Aunts and Uncles, Oh My! we only do treason against Mist; as a loyal leaf ninja does.

Inferno Vulpix said:

During our private meeting with Naruto afterwards he does say "I don't want to hand Orochimaru the rift", but given the context I believe that to mean that he's hoping Hazou renders the point moot rather than saying he's going to not inform Orochimaru after all on the expectation that Hazou does go missing and then win the day.

All in all, while I don't know when Naruto intended to tell Orochimaru about everything, I take it as granted that by now Orochimaru has been informed of approximately everything. "Approximately" in the sense that I believe Naruto likely omitted the option of moving the rift and definitely omitted the prospect of Hazou going missing. But he should know enough to hold a coherent conversation about the matter, at the very least.

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Aha, I did wonder whether I was forgetting something clear-cut like this. Thanks!

... But I'm still not sure that Naruto actually went through with this. Note how part of what he's doing here is establishing the cover story/justification for the hypothetical missing-nin!Hazou, and he explicitly forbids anyone else to take action on this. Since we haven't outright refused his suggestion, he might still be hoping for a better alternative, and therefore he hasn't told Oro.

Edit: Part of it is that I would've expected Oro to bring the topic up on his own at some point recently, given how much close contact we had. Interrogate Hazou on the specifics, request we share our notes on rift research with him, bargain for them, etc. Instead, nothing.

@Inferno Vulpix I vaguely remember you posting something a few weeks or months back with your idea of how we could infiltrate and exfiltrate the rift assuming we'd researched how to open and close it. Would you mind linking to that?

Slightly different take on the conversation.

[X] [Action Plan] Snuncle Knows Best
Word Count: TBD

• Sanity check with Team Uplift + Yuno.
• CCnJ
  • Asking Noburi to go under Oro's knife was wrong.
  • Apologize.
  • We all know who and what we are up against.
  • Having said that....
  • Explain what the expected jutsu would be (Chakra Scalpels through Water Whip).
  • Alternatively...
    • Would Noburi be okay with Kabuto doing the exam instead?
    • If not, ask Noburi to try to figure out how to do so himself.
      • Sealing or TH apprenticeship?
• Snuncle Conversation 1
  • Tone: Brainstorming, collaboration between peers.
  • Acknowledge Snuncle's progress with PS.
  • Clarify that PS is now called Runecrafting.
  • Ask what initial ideas he wants to pursue.
  • Share our own possible short-medium term plans.
    • Storage Runes - Progress towards GS.
    • Air Dome Runes - Compound or city level defenses
    • 5SB Rune - Permanent duration? Permanent protection?
  • An initial survey of the GS revealed nothing.
    • Has Snuncle's plan changed from complete replacement of the GS?
  • Acknowledge that we have not done much runic research
    • Akatsuki have a habit of dropping by unannounced.
    • We are brainstorming ways to keep the art secret.
    • Does Snuncle have any suggestions?
• Snuncle Conversation 2
  • If Noburi consented, request Kabuto's time to perform an examination of Noburi for the purpose of combining chakra scalpels and water whip.
  • We have thought more about the Thinker Clans.
  • That they each present normal elements and bloodlines, yet abnormal though patterns implies that the connected entities are pure cognition without chakra.
  • Somehow the Sage and his allies not only split and sealed a mind, but made the seals heredirary.
  • Are all bloodlines then similar seals? Bestowed by the Sage?
    • Deviant bloodlines are presumably not so designed.
    • As an aside, would mutated bloodline holders reject a transplant of the original? (e.g. Minami with Byakugan, Kurosawa with Sharingan)
  • How would this theory square with abnormal elements?
    • The Summon Clans have many strange elements.
    • They generally claim it is an effect of using Nature Chakra.
    • Are these human abnormal elements merely bloodlines allowing the partial use of nature chakra?
    • Could humans learn to use Nature Chakra or is it only the realm of bloodlines?

@Twinnstars :

I'm not in favor of doing treason to Leaf right now. We need to be in good standing to scam the Clans as hard as possible.

If Noburi can keep living things in his barrel, why aren't we just putting a Koi in there instead of giving them to Oro? Would Oro be able to provide these things without examining Noburi? What would you bet that Nobs treats it as an assassination attempt or something equally hysterical?

I love the idea that Hazo has simply deduced Ren's kidnapping, but Oro will be forced to maintain Opsec because (1) he's not in favor of doing treason because fighting a Naruto swarm will be annoying, and (2) war with Mist will distract him from Runesmithing practice.

sorry folks not clickin for me and not much time to mull it over so I'm posting the cowards choice

[ ] Lore Update

edit: sv why u broken

Though, of the options available I prefer

[X] A Conversation with Uncle Oro

[X] [Action Plan] Snuncle Knows Best
[X] Lore Update
[X] Snowflake Interlude
[X] Ino Interlude

Zampano said:

@Twinnstars :

I'm not in favor of doing treason to Leaf right now. We need to be in good standing to scam the Clans as hard as possible.

If Noburi can keep living things in his barrel, why aren't we just putting a Koi in there instead of giving them to Oro? Would Oro be able to provide these things without examining Noburi? What would you bet that Nobs treats it as an assassination attempt or something equally hysterical?

I love the idea that Hazo has simply deduced Ren's kidnapping, but Oro will be forced to maintain Opsec because (1) he's not in favor of doing treason because fighting a Naruto swarm will be annoying, and (2) war with Mist will distract him from Runesmithing practice.

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I don't expect any of the content of our deals with Orochimaru to effect our reputation in Leaf at large. The guy doesn't talk to anyone. He's constantly being surprised by the most out of date news. He'll probably laugh, press for a favor in return or something, and drop it. We can probably pre-empt the favor with some notes on the rift, its not like there aren't already copies out there anyways.

There's going to be fairly substantial changes up soon, trying to get it into a bulleted list form

On the 'why no fish in barrel': they're super finicky and become proper monsters in large enough schools to generate usable chakra. Hopefully Oro will roll his eyes and pull something out that he made years ago for artificial sage mode or something; the chakra equivalent of Mr. Skin perhaps.

A school of minnows that Noburi has to take care of would be a lot of fun.

My hope against hope is a partner octocat with CR++.

RandomOTP said:

HAZOU: "Sir, I took the Air Dome seal, and turned it into a weapon."

HAZOU: "Sir, the Goketsu have an AC/Heating jutsu, and I turned it into a weapon."

HAZOU: "Sir, you know that Sculpting jutsu that no one ever looks twice at? I turned it into a weapon."

ASUMA: "...Goddamn it. This kid is going to give me a heart attack one day."

HAZOU: "Oh, by the way, I'm thinking about picking up biosealing or Technique Hacking."

ASUMA: "..."

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Heh.

Hazo and the Very Bad Bad Conversation with Snuncle

Day 66 of teaching Orochimaru runesmithing, July 1st

"It should be abundantly clear that primogeniture," Orochimaru wildly gestured while carefully engraving the runic blank, "is a stupid means of succession. Anyone with brains would be able to see that selecting leaders based on merit, rather than their order of birth, is the best means for good governance."

Hazō observed his student's carving, mindfully staying out of arm's length, and replied, "I'm not arguing against you on that, since I'm arguably only head of my clan due to being a sealmaster instead of blood ties to Jiraiya, but I am saying that since we still have our current means of succession, that must mean every other intelligent ninja with influence must have seen this, and decided facing centuries of tradition and pushback from conservatives was not worth the benefits of good governance."

Orochimaru's face muscles tightened infinitesimally, in the manner that Hazō had come to realise that meant the older man was frustrated with ancient dogma and the inaction of the ninja that had come before him, and that he had about five seconds before Orochimaru launched into a rant about how people cutting corners had resulted in the world they currently lived in today.
He quickly changed the topic. "This might be of interest to you, Lord Orochimaru. When I made agreements with my summons, one of them stipulated that I would have to track down a pack his ancestor had trained and see to their welfare. Do you think that some of the chakra beasts of today might be offspring of ancient couplings between animals and summons from the Seventh Path?"

Orochimaru continued carving the practice rune, while considering Hazō's question. "It's not unheard of, especially for clans as randy as the Dogs."

Hazō suppressed the instinctive bristling when someone spoke negatively of his summons, and stayed silent.

Orochimaru continued to speak, ignoring Hazō's reaction. "Even for ninja, some clans claim descent from ancient spirits or forbidden couplings. Once you cut to the root of it, of course, it's nothing more than dressing on what's typically a very violent beginning to their clan."

"Oh, what are the usual origins, Lord Orochimaru?" Hazō didn't disguise the interest in his voice, even as he gently corrected a small instability in the rune's main support channel which would've cascaded and buckled.

Orochimaru observed his teacher's correction, and committed it to memory. He then corrected a similar defect in the main chakra channel, which would've had much worse effects, and after Hazō briefly wondered if he'd misspoke, finally answered the question.

"Usually a mutation. Some small quirk of birth which gets passed onto their descendents, then their descendents' descendents, and so on and so forth until their origins become so muddled they don't even know it any more. "

Orochimaru's carving continued, even as his mind surely must've been absorbed in the memories of past conquests, of uncovering ancient lore, of travelling with his family.

"Of course, when that small mutation occurs in an already established clan, exile is the most common outcome. Then comes hurried revenge, a blood feud, and eventually another potential clan is extinguished. All very wasteful, I would say."

Hazō quickly connected the dots and exclaimed, "Ah, so like the Minami and the Hyūga?"

"Exactly so," Orochimaru nodded, "I remember the Minami being cast out by the Hyūga, and the small war that followed after. Such a shame the Caged Bird seal stopped me from studying their eyes, though the rest of their bodies were quite interesting as well."

Hazō looked away to hide his blanch, disguising it by reaching for an ampoule of substrate and nearly dropping it. He fashioned it into an example of chakra diffusion the next section Orochimaru would work on would need, and handed it to his student.

Orochimaru studied it, pausing his carving and applied the lightest of touches with his fingers. Channeling just a mote of chakra through the pattern taught him exactly what he needed, and the sample was dropped into their disposal bucket.

"Of course, that wasn't always the outcome," Orochimaru resumed his carving, incorporating the pattern his teacher had just shown him. "If you know your history, the Fuma clan was technically distinct from the Uchiha, since they lacked the ability to awaken the Sharingan, but were kept as a client clan, due to a close bond between their progenitor and the Clan Head at the time."

"So," Hazō bent over the rune, smoothing out the chakra channels in the blank Orochimaru had just presented for review, "It's kind of like how the Kurosawas are descended from the Uchiha."

Orochimaru very carefully did not still. His hands still shaped the creation of substrate between his palms, his eyes continued to study the verified rune his teacher had given for study, and his body very carefully did not betray that every facet of his mind was now fixated on Hazō. It took every ounce of his willpower for his next few words to not end with a hiss. "Oh, is that so?"

Hazō continued to study his student's work, oblivious to sudden pressure that suffused the clearing. "Yeah? Haven't I mentioned that before? My family's an offshoot of the Uchiha that split off centuries ago. Well, technically my ancestors got separated during a raid from a rival clan and got really lost. Somehow they ended up in the Land of Water, and decided they really liked fish, so they stayed. I guess over the generations we developed the Iron Nerve, or something."

Orochimaru could barely stop his hands from shaking, knowing even a small tremor might give himself away. "That's really interesting, Hazō. Does your clan still manifest the Sharingan?"

Hazō shook his head, unsure how to answer the question. "Sometimes? Maybe once or twice a generation, but it doesn't breed true. They're still Kurosawa, in the end."

Orochimaru very carefully set the rune-in-progress down, and said, "Yes, that is an example of how migration might shape or create new clans. If you excuse me, I have a pressing meeting to get to."

Hazō startled, and double checked that he had just heard correctly. "Are you sure? We still have a few hours le-"

"Yes. Goodbye."

RoadWild said:

Orochimaru very carefully set the rune-in-progress down, and said, "Yes, that is an example of how migration might shape or create new clans. If you excuse me, I have a pressing meeting to get to."

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[Χ] Training plan: Lore Forbidder
+Deceit -> 59: -1470 XP

Hazo needs to practice keeping his mouth quiet, until we learn what is secret for a good reason

ting said:

@Inferno Vulpix I vaguely remember you posting something a few weeks or months back with your idea of how we could infiltrate and exfiltrate the rift assuming we'd researched how to open and close it. Would you mind linking to that?

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This is where I started talking about it, though note that the conversation continues substantially after this post:

Inferno Vulpix said:

[X] Action Plan: Reaching Out

This is fair, but it's still best to stack the odds in our favour. The less likely it is that Naruto knows our options, the more likely our options have of succeeding.

Necromancy requires, at the very minimum, that the rift is open when we enter and that the rift is open when we exit. Anything else is mutable.

One way to accomplish those things is what I will henceforth call "Open Necromancy", where we open the rift and keep it open for the entire duration of the expedition. Our explorer comes back to the rift site whenever they want to and comes out with whoever they found.

Another way to accomplish those things is "Stealth Necromancy", where we open the rift, send our explorer in, close the rift again, and then re-open it later for the explorer to leave.

Open Necromancy is obviously much easier to maintain. You just need two ninja stationed at the rift, pushing it back open every day or so with Rift Seal 3. It's trivially easy to keep the rift open as long as we need it to, but crucially it's an operation that we can't hide or disguise: Akatsuki will see us, and take action, unless we've moved the rift somewhere else.

Stealth Necromancy is more likely to avoid Akatsuki's attention, since the rift is only open for minutes at a time and everyone involved leaves the site soon after. Stealth Necromancy, if successful, could allow us to complete a full expedition without provoking their wrath, even without having to move the rift to a new location.

As for Naruto? Well, we definitely need him to open the rift the first time, but with the right preparations we don't need his help for the second one. Even after a long expedition, our explorer and home team can plausibly re-open the rift by using Rift Seal 3 from both sides. Timing is a problem that can be solved. This is a valuable option to us, because it means we can complete our first expedition without Naruto knowing who we rezzed, or even that this is the afterlife in the first place.

Once Naruto knows that necromancy is real, he'll tell Asuma and Asuma will secure the site and use necromancy to advance Leaf interests. This isn't the worst thing in the world, but it takes control out of our hands. Asuma may authorize an expedition to find Jiraiya, but would he put the same effort towards finding Akane? It may also put us in a worse situation regarding the Akatsuki's own necromancy project, because certain options like "rez Pein with a life debt" will never get authorized since they act against Leaf's interests even if they could be good for the world at large.

So it's not necessary, but it makes our expected outcome better if we can keep Naruto from being there when we exit the rift. But Naruto is his own agent and can counterplay us if he thinks there's reason to be suspicious. If Naruto believes that the only way to open the rift is through him, then he will believe that "the home team hasn't asked Naruto to go back and re-open the rift" is evidence for "the rift is not open yet" and he won't be able to be there at the critical moment. On the other hand, if he knows that other methods exist, the odds that the Goketsu might try to circumvent him rises and he is more likely to poke into our business at the wrong time. Remember that he knows Hazou has treasonous behaviours: not trusting us to play by the book would be quite valid.

Laying that all out on the table it looks like this:

• Our best outcome is if neither Akatsuki nor Leaf knows that we have resurrected people.
• Akatsuki can (probably) be fooled if we use stealth necromancy, closing the rift while the expedition progresses and re-opening it at the end to let people out.
• The expected way this would be accomplished is by involving Naruto at both ends of the expedition. Consequently, Naruto will see for himself whether resurrection is real, and thus Leaf will know as soon as we know.
• This can be avoided by circumventing Naruto for the second opening, which is within our means to do.
• However, if Naruto grows suspicious of us then we cannot properly circumvent him.
• Therefore, we need to make sure Naruto believes we are not going to circumvent him when it comes time to re-open the rift.
• The best way to do this is to make him believe we can't circumvent him in the first place.

It's not as clean and simple as that, of course. As mentioned, Naruto may learn from the Sages of our other options, even if we keep them from him. But it stacks the deck in our favour: Naruto is more likely to fail to grow suspicious of our exit plan if he is unaware or less aware of our alternatives, and consequently we are more likely to pull off our first resurrection without Naruto's scrutiny and thus without alerting Leaf to what we've done. It's a subtle turning of the dials, but it is to our benefit.

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Also note that the overall structure of this strategy is "we make no effort to interfere with Akatsuki's necromancy, but rather we attempt to delve the other side in secret, hoping that we can find and rez people before the Akatsuki fully secure the site for their own delving". The trouble now is that we don't have a lot of time. Sasori got our seals and we've already been crippled by needing to wait months recovering from injuries. In the current climate, a very reasonable outcome to this route is that we send someone into the afterlife and then come back a month later to retrieve them only to find Akatsuki camping out around the site. I don't think it does a good job of solving any of our current problems.

For anyone that had Naruto as a major sticking point, [] Action Plan: Octocats and Aunts and Uncles, Oh My! is a branch of Cowardice and Ambition without that section. In addition, I've done a bunch of updating for the format and some tweaks to content. Please take a look and let me know if you have any suggestions or improvements.

Twinnstars said:

[] Action Plan: Octocats and Aunts and Uncles, Oh My!

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Scattershot thoughts. Tired, please interpret tone charitably.

• Orochimaru has infused his first seal. As has Hazou. Neither of them have done further research. Either they both are runemasters, or neither of them are.
• I have no desire to ask a WoG-confirmed Evil Essie to call us senpai. This will not end well. This is a deal breaker.
• I do not care about Ren. I doubt she is in any condition to speak to us, given how Noda was. I only see this causing issues for us. This is a deal breaker.
• Organism inside barrel is a bad idea. Noburi tried watering a plant with his chakra water, and it grew spines. Bad results are likely. Not to mention a waste of his time. Orochimaru is likely to tell us to do it, ourselves, rather than buying his time. Which pulls him away from PS research. We are also leaving Leaf in a few months. This is not enough time to do a longterm research project on living organisms.
• What procedure? Hazou bought Orochimaru's examination of Noburi with lithosealing. Are you expecting orochimaru to give us something for free?
• Trying to dangle research ideas in front of Orochimaru is a bad idea. He is an Essie, and a prolific research sealmaster. He has his own backlog of seals to work through. He has a brand new sealing specialization to explore and tinker with. He is not going to want to be side tracked.

Lots of deal breakers, the most egregious of which is Ren.

[X] Training Plan (Hazou): We're Taking These With Us

Fertility Jutsu 0 -> 1 (-0.5xp)
Mud Hut 0 -> 1 (-0.5xp)

RandomOTP said:

Scattershot thoughts. Tired, please interpret tone charitably.

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Sure

RandomOTP said:

Orochimaru has infused his first seal. As has Hazou. Neither of them have done further research. Either they both are runemasters, or neither of them are.

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Hazou researched the novel rune Explosive Runes. He is a runemaster. Orochimaru followed in Hazou's footsteps, and is a runecrafter. Also, check the plan

RandomOTP said:

I have no desire to ask a WoG-confirmed Evil Essie to call us senpai. This will not end well. This is a deal breaker.

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Check the plan

RandomOTP said:

I do not care about Ren. I doubt she is in any condition to speak to us, given how Noda was. I only see this causing issues for us. This is a deal breaker.

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You might need to dig into this one a little bit more for it to be constructive

RandomOTP said:

Organism inside barrel is a bad idea. Noburi tried watering a plant with his chakra water, and it grew spines. Bad results are likely. Not to mention a waste of his time. Orochimaru is likely to tell us to do it, ourselves, rather than buying his time. Which pulls him away from PS research. We are also leaving Leaf in a few months. This is not enough time to do a longterm research project on living organisms.

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Scattershot,
This would be an afternoon project for orochimaru, not a long term diversion
It does seem like a hard project, but Orochimaru is the worlds eminent biosealer
Very dumb would Oro be if he continued to FOOM after learning he's draining the bulk of Leaf to do it. Way too much attention to himself. He'll happily provide at least a temporary solution, something that can just by default join the party is probably a bit of an ask, yeah, but that's an eyeroll; not game over

RandomOTP said:

What procedure? Hazou bought Orochimaru's examination of Noburi with lithosealing. Are you expecting orochimaru to give us something for free?

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This one is answered in the previous line of the plan

RandomOTP said:

Trying to dangle research ideas in front of Orochimaru is a bad idea. He is an Essie, and a prolific research sealmaster. He has his own backlog of seals to work through. He has a brand new sealing specialization to explore and tinker with. He is not going to want to be side tracked.

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None of these quite seem related to each other?
I guess if I keep in mind the context you think it'll take Oro longer than an afternoon to whip something up it makes sense. Yeah he's really busy, but that's why he really wants to keep fooming. I'm not like, bringing this up to boss oro around lol. I'm getting ahead of something that *will* bite the thread in the ass. Just the Gouketsu were buying enough chakra from leaf to change the economics of being a genin, lol.

RandomOTP said:

Lots of deal breakers, the most egregious of which is Ren.

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Sincerely thank you for the input, I hope you like the edited versions of the plans. I'm still not exactly sure what your issue is with Ren, and thus how I can address it.

Let me know?

Twinnstars said:

[] Action Plan: Octocats and Aunts and Uncles, Oh My
Words: 392

• The original deal was unfortunately limited in scope.
  • Little matter, there are just a few necessary adjustments.
    • Supplying his chakra is draining Leaf dry. In exchange for
      • Material for the project
      • Free chakra for the duration of training
      • A voucher for a prank to be committed on Sunny
    • Oro will supply a chakra generating creature sufficient to supply himself
      • A modified litter of octocats maybe?
• On the subject of Noburi; he's still suffering under the delusion that cowardice is compatible with ambition.
  • It appears I need to be an example for him.
  • How about that sleep Bio-seal?
  • To keep things simple, a two hour procedure in Leaf General?
    • If you want to wrangle Sunny somewhere else feel free. We can go on a family picnic.
• Speaking of family, you have Aunt Ren.
  • I don't mind.
    • No, really. I get it.
  • You needed an example of primordial sealing to learn the art
  • Kurosawa Ren, former Mizukage, was both at Nagi Island, and left without a power base after the rise of AMI in Mist.
  • You left Leaf after displaying an interest in my bloodline over it's obvious ability to pick up some information about runes.
  • You then returned to Leaf, meaning you acquired your example of runes
  • I then intercepted you on the way into Leaf to initiate this trade. You haven't had a reason to interact with her, beyond whatever secrets a chunin Kage has.
    • Which to be clear, I don't care about. I want to talk to Ren to
      • Clear up decade old family drama
        • If Uncle is curious, indulge him over a glass of sake. I'm the exiled prince of a clan of warrior poets, and it's the least interesting thing about me.
      • Learn what the hell my bloodline is supposed to do.
      • Maybe, if she had good reasons for abandoning the family, make another deal for her captivity to be turned over.
        • Invite him to share his judgement, after hearing her reasons
• Return to the topic of the runic research. Hazou is interested in the topic of augmenting learning capability; and they're both well versed in the shadow clone technique. Does Orochimaru have any ideas for a method to select and copy certain memories in order to teach another?
  • … If not, is he interested in researching it?

Seal research:
Continue Jiraiyas Substitution seals with Hazou's intuition for prep.

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Changes to remove some uncertainty and make it more clear what Hazou is looking for and why for the whole chakra issue, and simplifying the request to make Noburi calm down.

The bioseal is something Oro already offered us, he's not going to be upset we finally decided we want it. If anything he'll be pleased to have a few more hours of training a day.

Twinnstars said:

I'm still not exactly sure what your issue is with Ren

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Speaking personally, even putting aside the cost/risk of negotiating with Orochimaru or breaking into the basement, assuming we do get Ren she's a high risk (infosec, jonin babysitting) that we don't actually have a reason to stick out our necks for. She's blood related but that means zero to me after how the Kurosawa including Ren treated Hazo. Hazo has his family and Ren is not invited. Hana cares for Ren and that's something, enough for me to consider whether we can plausibly rescue Ren. The result of my consideration is that no, rescuing Ren is not viable until we come back juiced up on way more Essie sauce. I am personally unwilling to engage IC with rescuing Ren- it really sucks that this happened to her and it really sucks that she's in that situation, but this is one of those situations where we have to accept that Hazo can't have it all and we're already struggling to deal with what we've already got.

To sum it up: We're currently juggling 3-5 apocalypses depending on your count and Ren represents the potential to get AMITY/Akatsuki on Leaf's ass again.

I like this I'm just worried that the asynchronous parts would be disallowed by the QMs.

ProperAttorney said:

• Sanity check with Team Uplift + Yuno.
• CCnJ
  • Asking Noburi to go under Oro's knife was wrong.
  • Apologize.
  • We all know who and what we are up against.
  • Having said that....
  • Explain what the expected jutsu would be (Chakra Scalpels through Water Whip).
  • Alternatively...
    • Would Noburi be okay with Kabuto doing the exam instead?
    • If not, ask Noburi to try to figure out how to do so himself.
      • Sealing or TH apprenticeship

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ProperAttorney said:

Snuncle Conversation 1

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ProperAttorney said:

Snuncle Conversation 2

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@Paperclipped I just want to check, would this be allowed to be voted in to take place in the time leading up to the conversation with Oro during BoC/GC teaching.

This is a quick powwow with Uplift and 2 asychronous conversations total.

DanZapman said:

Speaking personally, even putting aside the cost/risk of negotiating with Orochimaru or breaking into the basement, assuming we do get Ren she's a high risk (infosec, jonin babysitting) that we don't actually have a reason to stick out our necks for.

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Oh she doesn't leave whatever blacksite she gets moved to alive unless Mari is 1000% convinced she's converted.

DanZapman said:

She's blood related but that means zero to me after how the Kurosawa including Ren treated Hazo.

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Yeah I'm a-okay killing her quietly after getting whatever Kurosawa lore we can out of her, again if Mari doesn't sound off

DanZapman said:

Hazo has his family and Ren is not invited

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Ya

DanZapman said:

Hana cares for Ren and that's something, enough for me to consider whether we can plausibly rescue Ren. The result of my consideration is that no, rescuing Ren is not viable until we come back juiced up on way more Essie sauce.

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This is the bit I don't get. Are we modelling how much Orochimaru cares about Ren differently or something?

From his perspective, she's just a random chunin with a career a third the length of his. Who cares that Mist put her in charge for a few months?
Losing a somewhat valuable bloodline ninja to experiment on is sad for Oro, but it's really not the end of his world. Spilled milk.

Twinnstars said:

Oh she doesn't leave whatever blacksite she gets moved to alive unless Mari is 1000% convinced she's converted.

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I don't think we have a blacksite that can reasonably contain a jonin. I don't think Ren is up to scratch by Kage standards but I'm reasonably sure she's potent as ninja in general go. I'm not sure why you consider her a chunin- chunin don't have clearances, weird circumstances or not. I may of course be misremembering something. My concern is less about Orochimaru and more about having to deal with a socially specced jonin who also has a massive grudge against Oro/Leaf and knows the kind of information Mist would initiate hostile action over by virtue of being a jonin and being the former Mizukage.

If you're fine with killing her after then okay, but... why bother grabbing her at all? I'm perfectly fine with your suggestions where we only negotiate a conversation with Ren for Kurosawa lore and drama closure. Those make sense to me.

So mainly, why do you consider her a chunin- did I forget something, and why exactly are you considering negotiating her release with Oro at all instead of just a convo?

DanZapman said:

So mainly, why do you consider her a chunin- did I forget something, and why exactly are you considering negotiating her release with Oro at all instead of just a convo?

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She has a jounin aura per the Interlude where she's captured so calling her a chunin is kinda 🤔

DanZapman said:

I don't think we have a blacksite that can reasonably contain a jonin. I don't think Ren is up to scratch by Kage standards but I'm reasonably sure she's potent as ninja in general go

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I mean, we could very easily ask Orochimaru to cripple her in some unspecified way without impeding her utility to us, or do something horrid ourselves

DanZapman said:

I don't think we have a blacksite that can reasonably contain a jonin.

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We've had difficult keeping prisoners contained on the move, but killboxes shouldn't be that hard. Give Kagome 2 hours and he'd have one ready to go

DanZapman said:

If you're fine with killing her after then okay, but... why bother grabbing her at all?

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Suffering reduction. Every second she's sitting bored in a killbox is one she's not sitting unable to blink staring at a wall waiting for the snake to come back. Instead, she knows she can kill herself at any moment by going past that line over there. Legitimately way better.

Even if we have to use full body stone restraints it'll be a deescelation from Oro's shit.

DanZapman said:

So mainly, why do you consider her a chunin- did I forget something, and why exactly are you considering negotiating her release with Oro at all instead of just a convo?

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She was always weak for a clan head, and fuck as I type this out I wonder if it's because she has a double cost research stat at the top of that pyramid.

Anyway, there were some references that put her at *low* jōnin a while ago. That was back in the chūnin exams.... so it's been a while. Eh she's clearly not an essie, what else matters (sarcasm, here lol)

Good point on the convo

Sir Stompy said:

Oro's little asides during PS training are good indicators of his overall mindset. Consider them, and try to see things from his perspective.

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This is what the players are supposed to do. Why are you telling the QMs to do it as the second line of your plan?

Sir Stompy said:

Hazou's beginning to learn to TH, as all great researchers are multidisciplinary. Haruhisa described THing as a negotiation between chakra and the THer, is that how you view it?

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Hazō is already multidisciplinary, unless he wants to imply he doesn't know Primordial Sealing.

Sir Stompy said:

Do you have any thoughts about how to help the Crusade succeed?

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*Bangs head against wall* he made the Dragon claw seal. Unless you want him to start commanding when and where to make runes, what's the point here? Will we take a research project from him? Yet another quest marker? Thoughts on battle plans for something we won't be able to participate in?

You could try volunteering something instead of requesting the qms do it for you. Like, "hey, do you have any methods of blind fighting that you can share with the Bosses? I've considered echo-location and heat sensing"

We know the answer already though, its yes. The only one who'll accept mods from him is Manda, though.

Sir Stompy said:

What does you enjoy besides sealing/biology/research? Do you enjoy traveling/reading/fighting/food/etc.?

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Just.... why. What will you do with this information? Are we going to put a gift basket together for orochimaru? We're not worried about him being insulted by being asked this, rather than us being able to observe?
How exactly are you going to spin these as deep, impressive questions worth Orochimaru promising to treat them with respect and consideration?

It's not even connected to a reason like, speculations for JA, you're just asking Orochimaru what his hobbies are! I guess it's a decent way to test his "I'm leaving because this is annoying" clause.