I'm sick right now, but if someone posts an action plan that doesn't have us leaving Leaf, would someone ping me?

(Disclaimer: haven't read through the thread)
All of the current action plans do not commit to leaving Leaf. They're all neutral, saying that regardless of what we do we can't do it right away (which is true, because healing and stuff).

None of the current action plans outright refuse to leave.


Unrelatedly:
[X] Action Plan: Schrodinger's Treason Dragon
I like the crazy plans offered in the other plan, but I think this one works best for now. We have a few months, we can hold a meeting with Naruto and start spitballing. Especially if he takes the clan head thing.
 
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  • Have Hazou infiltrate Akatsuki to "steer" rift research in Leaf's favor
Another crazy option: assign Hazou as an official ambassador to Rain through official AMITY channels, focus propaganda efforts on reframing concessions as charity rather than robbery.

Rumor could be something like "Hidan tried to hire out his super-tracking ability to us, for a routine corpse-recovery mission, screwed that up somehow, ran some sort of clumsy con in an attempt to collect anyway, got Rain's own top administrator killed in the process, demanded 'dimensionalism research' as key part of the reparations... maybe that pack of overpowered missing-nin literally forgot, or never learned, how to make basic storage seals! Whereas here in Hidden Leaf we're so awesome at scribe-work we can afford to just give 'em away, as evidenced by Akane Memorial and the food-bank and public libraries and so on. So, we'll send an expert, above and beyond what they asked for, to sort that out long-term. Gotta make sure such pitiful desperation doesn't further destabilize the Elemental Nations."
 
"Sure," Fukasaku said. "The Tenfold Abomination was an External. Came from the chaos that is outside the cosmos. There's lots of those things and they keep trying to wiggle into our cosmos. Probably because it's a lot nicer here—"
OK, so what we have to do is cause a 3D sealing failure, defeat whatever comes out and then seal its remains into ourselves to become jinchuuriki.
 
Loore!! LOOOORE!!

--
Yeah, that's the closest I've found as well. A far cry from an explicitly-promised collective punishment, though.
Oh wow, I had thought this was more explicit. Shows what happens when you don't check the text directly. Since this wasn't an explicit threat, maybe it's not so bad then and they'll instead just focus on trying to find Hazou himself.

--
You need it with you to use it
Ah thanks! But then, shouldn't Akatsuki have the snake scroll after they ganked Oro in his hideout in the Immortal interlude and he was forced to flee? He didn't seem to be in a position to take it with him...
 
Humor aside, as a general reminder to lurkers or whatnot- they're socially obliged to produce an heir and both of them have shown that they intend to do so at some indefinite point in the future, so this would actually be a problem.
If there's literally suspicion of catastrophe then Shikamaru will tell his closest advisors among his blood family and his most competent cousin becomes his heir. Or they both produce heirs separately. This is the Nara Clan we are talking about.
If you tell them they cannot procreate with each other, then at least in the case of Shikamaru, he is obligated to find a new wife who will have his children. Staying married and intentionally childless isn't an option.
Kei herself pushed through the Concubine Laws. Shikamaru doesn't need a new wife in order to procreate. His Clan will understand because they accepted Kei as their second in command, are intelligent and rational enough to dislike existential threats, know Clan secrets relating to such threats, are the Clan of "social experiments" and did not uproar when Kei made actual use of the Concubine Laws in full view of all the Leaf dignitaries and in defiance of religious authorities (other than the highest one who approved).

In any case I'd be surprised if infertility routinely led to divorce among Clan Heads and their spouses. I'm not even sure it is legal grounds for divorce.
 
No one has crossed any lines that I'm aware of, but it's probably a good idea to take the discussion of underage teens procreating and move it to Discord or DM.
 
I'm sick right now, but if someone posts an action plan that doesn't have us leaving Leaf, would someone ping me?

(Disclaimer: haven't read through the thread)
My plan doesn't commit to doing anything either way.

[X] Action Plan: Schrodinger's Treason Dragon
Word Count: ~390
  • Hazou doesn't quite know what to think about the suggestion. He'll need time to think about it. And, somewhat obviously, wouldn't tell Naruto so he can maintain deniability in either case.
    • Potentially worth noting, with regards to Hazou's fears of the Clan being punished or exploited by Akatsuki should he defect, that Jiraiya always intended Naruto to become the Clan Head.
      • Hazou is not sure what Naruto thinks about it. The Uzumaki legacy is certainly important to him too.
      • But, treason-wrangler Naruto could plausibly take advantage of this fact from Jiraiya's will to undermine treason-Hazou's political influence and authority. This could even be additional grounds to make treason-Hazou go rogue.
      • Naturally, this would grant Naruto access to the potent Pangolin armor techniques without getting Kei in trouble.
      • The Goketsu's new patriarch being Naruto himself adds yet more psychological deterrence for Akatsuki to enact retribution on the remaining Goketsu, lessening some of the consequences of leaving.
      • Would this situation be okay if Hazou didn't leave?
    • If he stays... honestly he is not sure how they can win at the moment. He'll try and think of more options but it looks pretty grim as of now. Not that leaving is especially promising.
      • The extent of 3D sealing's abilities remain unknown. Hazou needs to heal regardless of his choice, but maybe investigating its capabilities will make it more obvious if it could be used to fortify Leaf against invasion, making surviving the aftermath of the rearguard attack more viable.
    • Either case, Hazou needs to spend time healing and teach Orochimaru lithosealing for the Dragonwar.
    • What resources is Naruto willing to share with Hazou at this stage? It would need to be something Naruto would share in either Hazou decision, ostensibly out of gratitude for Hazou's help in the election, so neither of them are biased towards expecting a given decision and to maintain deniability. And to be clear, nothing is fine too, but Hazou may as well ask.
      • Jutsu? Any relevant Lore, like Whirlpool or something? Any remaining Minato Sealing insights for sealing/3D Sealing? Any mind-strengthening tricks for researching with parallel SCs?
      • SC for Kagome. They didn't tell him to stop researching the Rift and in Hazou's estimation is likely a jonin-level sealmaster himself. In fact, he is regularly overlooked, which could be an advantage.
 
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I'd like Hazou to stay in Leaf until he is healed at a bare minimum. From there I would prefer if Hazou begins basic rune research for the express purpose of defeating the Dragons as the Dragons are still an existential threat and for such threats there is no such thing as overkill. At the conclusion of the Dragon fight victory Hazou and Kagome can fake reverse summoning accidents near the Great Seal like so:
Given that Hazou cannot safely infuse on the 7th Path, what is the plan for using Runes there? Hope that we can reverse summon them without it counting as moving and getting a massive rebound?
 
Given that Hazou cannot safely infuse on the 7th Path, what is the plan for using Runes there? Hope that we can reverse summon them without it counting as moving and getting a massive rebound?
Wait a second...
"Good morning, sir," Kei said.

"Unh," Jiraiya grunted, sipping carefully at the hot pangolin coffee that Pantrei had brought. The Sannin had dumped in a third of a cup of cream (species of source: unknown and unwanted to know) and seventeen spoons of honey; the spoon had nearly stood up when he stirred it. "Those two words do not belong together."

[...]

"First, could you please infuse these?" She extended a packet of seal blanks for him. He tapped his right forefinger on the top blank while drinking from the mug in his left; a wisp of foxfire indicated that the inked design had just been turned into a mystical machine that allowed the destruction of physical law. Kei slid the paper aside so that her Hokage could tap and infuse the next blank.
Why can't we infuse seals on the Seventh Path? @eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped Did this get grued?
 
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Why can't we infuse seals on the Seventh Path? @eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped Did this get grued?
I don't think it's that we literally can't but that the Toad Sages said they would personally kill Hazou if he tried infusing runes on the 7th Path. Their path is more fragile so any failures could just destroy it, unlike the other sturdier paths.
 
I don't think it's that we literally can't but that the Toad Sages said they would personally kill Hazou if he tried infusing runes on the 7th Path. Their path is more fragile so any failures could just destroy it, unlike the other sturdier paths.
This is fair.

...Hm. That's one way to destroy the Dragons, I suppose.
 
I feel like it'd be easier to make a seal to selectively lock away memories than go missing Nin like that. Maybe the Yamaka have something? Grue ourselves basically.

We can't fail deceit rolls for secrets we don't know we have!
 
I don't think it's that we literally can't but that the Toad Sages said they would personally kill Hazou if he tried infusing runes on the 7th Path. Their path is more fragile so any failures could just destroy it, unlike the other sturdier paths.
Is it more fragile, or is it less full of holes, with its denizens caring about keeping it this way? The Rats speculated that the Seventh Path was meant to be the Sage's paradise. This chapter confirmed my theories that the Out is full of weird thingies trying to get into the Paths and cause havoc. Combining these, plus Kagome's talk about it being a "prison", results in my theory that the Sage did a lot of work to try and causally isolate the Seventh Path from corrupting influences of the Out.

And Sealing disturbs the cobweb, risks tearing the fabric of reality, and potentially some of these tears remain even after a sealing failure passed. So sealing experimentation isn't an immediate existential-risk concern, but it's "burning the commons": gradually destabilizing the garden's walls that the Sage put up.

Same for e. g. why Kei isn't allowed to consult the Voice there, and why jinchuuriki shouldn't be Summoners.
 
I feel like it'd be easier to make a seal to selectively lock away memories than go missing Nin like that. Maybe the Yamaka have something? Grue ourselves basically.

We can't fail deceit rolls for secrets we don't know we have!

Hazou would have to have Medknow high enough to know how to interact with the exact portions of the brain that contain specific memories, and then he would have to have biosealing high enough to interact with the brain in such a way that it seals key memories away... and does nothing else.

Doing brain and memory stuff is hard as heck. Mari, who has made a huge amount of her own genjutsu, made Truth Lost in the Fog. By her own admission, it is her Magnum Opus. However, it also causes severe brain damage to her every time she uses it. So making a bioseal that locks memories away is going to be a Very Difficult Thing, never mind the viability of getting access to biosealing (and raising it that high) in a close enough time frame to be relevant.

...and then, unfortunately, you have to consider the actual research process. In both seals and bioseals, Word of God is that a sealmaster churns through several prototype seals before creating a final product.

With biosealing, that often means working on civilians and ninja --fellow human beings. I could see the research process of creating a memory bioseal leaving a lot of damaged people.

And, while Hazou's relationship with Leaf civilians is unbalanced/high enough that we would likely have no end of volunteers, desperate to "give back" to the Clan Lord who gave them and theirs so much... I wouldn't want to ask that of them.



Side note:

Speaking of civilians, have we considered what the reaction of Leaf's civilians will be if Hazou goes missing? We're all but worshipped by them due to all our Uplift Projects. If we leave Leaf, they're going to be very, very displeased with the people who made their hero go away.

Double so, once the new Goketsu Clan Head stops all of our insane Uplift Projects (such as funneling our own money into the Tower's Till'n'Fill Missions to make them actually viable to take and still pay rent).

Triply so, once they find out that we ditched Leaf because Naruto forbid us from trying to resurrect Akane (who was a first generation ninja, and widely beloved by Literally Everyone).

I could see Leaf's civilians (or at least the Goketsu's "many hundreds" of civilians) doing something in reaction to that. Refusing to work, slowdowns, malicious compliance, etc.

In Leaf, civilians (nominally) have rights, but it wasn't until Hazou came that they were treated like it. Mari, herself, said that Goketsu Civilians have a quality of life only found amongst civilian nobles. And Hazou's name is becoming echoed throughout Fire's hamlets. Hazou makes civilians actually feel protected.

If he goes Missing, then... welp. I suppose it's the civilians' turn to unionize.




Edit: sorry if it's rambling. Still sick, despite water, naps, and medicine.
 
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Hazou would have to have Medknow high enough to know how to interact with the exact portions of the brain that contain specific memories, and then he would have to have biosealing high enough to interact with the brain in such a way that it seals key memories away... and does nothing else.

Doing brain and memory stuff is hard as heck. Mari, who has made a huge amount of her own genjutsu, made Truth Lost in the Fog. By her own admission, it is her Magnum Opus. However, it also causes severe brain damage to her every time she uses it. So making a bioseal that locks memories away is going to be a Very Difficult Thing, never mind the viability of getting access to biosealing (and raising it that high) in a close enough time frame to be relevant.

...and then, unfortunately, you have to consider the actual research process. In both seals and bioseals, Word of God is that a sealmaster churns through several prototype seals before creating a final product.

With biosealing, that often means working on civilians and ninja --fellow human beings. I could see the research process of creating a memory bioseal leaving a lot of damaged people.

And, while Hazou's relationship with Leaf civilians is unbalanced/high enough that we would likely have no end of volunteers, desperate to "give back" to the Clan Lord who gave them and theirs so much... I wouldn't want to ask that of them.



Side note:

Speaking of civilians, have we considered what the reaction of Leaf's civilians will be if Hazou goes missing? We're all but worshipped by them due to all our Uplift Projects. If we leave Leaf, they're going to be very, very displeased with the people who made their hero go away.

Double so, once the new Goketsu Clan Head stops all of our insane Uplift Projects (such as funneling our own money into the Tower's Till'n'Fill Missions to make them actually viable to take and still pay rent).

Triply so, once they find out that we ditched Leaf because Naruto forbid us from trying to resurrect Akane (who was a first generation ninja, and widely beloved by Literally Everyone).

I could see Leaf's civilians (or at least the Goketsu's "many hundreds" of civilians) doing something in reaction to that. Refusing to work, slowdowns, malicious compliance, etc.

In Leaf, civilians (nominally) have rights, but it wasn't until Hazou came that they were treated like it. Mari, herself, said that Goketsu Civilians have a quality of life only found amongst civilian nobles. And Hazou's name is becoming echoed throughout Fire's hamlets. Hazou makes civilians actually feel protected.

If he goes Missing, then... welp. I suppose it's the civilians' turn to unionize.




Edit: sorry if it's rambling. Still sick, despite water, naps, and medicine.
Lmfao Akatsuki shows up to burn Leaf down because they can't find Hazō, only to stumble upon massed civvied and ninja sympathizers in the middle of a revolt. Flying civilians dropping bombs on ninja
 
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