Honestly nuking Isan is 1000x more reasonable to me than torching that city
Honestly I don't know enough about the situation to judge. Maybe it put critical pressure on Rock and forced them to withdraw from the front lines to defend other civilian villages, maybe Asuma had a friend die and wanted to get some payback.

Regardless I agree that this smells more calculated and reasonable and with far fewer viable alternatives than burning that village.
 
Honestly I don't know enough about the situation to judge. Maybe it put critical pressure on Rock and forced them to withdraw from the front lines to defend other civilian villages, maybe Asuma had a friend die and wanted to get some payback.

Regardless I agree that this smells more calculated and reasonable and with far fewer viable alternatives than burning that village.
By the end of the war it was payback/wanting to bleed Iwa. Recall that when AMITY was around the corner and WW4 was close to ending, Asuma stepped up on his scorch squad missions.
 
That decision made me want to punch Asuma in the face.
This one just made me think: Ah sweet, "Grim reality far too within my comprehension."
 
Wonder if we're getting any TYS for enabling yet another genocide
It probably wouldn't be enough for Hazou... but Kei should definitely gain one or two. She has a personal stake in this. She swore to protect Isan's interests in Leaf. She was fond of Takahashi, her Summoning Sensei. She feels a personal responsibility to Isan, and feels like a failure for not being the religious messiah they believe her to be.

And now she just failed to stop their genocide.

Kei should definitely gain some TYS from this, I think.
 
It probably wouldn't be enough for Hazou... but Kei should definitely gain one or two. She has a personal stake in this. She swore to protect Isan's interests in Leaf. She was fond of Takahashi, her Summoning Sensei. She feels a personal responsibility to Isan, and feels like a failure for not being the religious messiah they believe her to be.

And now she just failed to stop their genocide.

Kei should definitely gain some TYS from this, I think.
Actually, that's a genuine issue because if without FiF, Hazou would have been a gibbering wreck long ago, how is Kei gonna hold up?
 
I keep seeing people say Asuma and Shikamaru are going to assassinate Hazou for knowing about EM nuke, to protect Leaf or the world or whatever, and imo this represents a huge misunderstanding from the information this chapter gave us. Shikamaru was very blatant this update about what he thought humanity's prospects were looking like, whether Isan was destroyed or not. Shikamaru is Asuma's top advisor, Asuma knows exactly how grim things are. What's the takeaway here?

They think humanity is fucked.

This is with the Thinkers doing literally everything they can to preserve the world, and they're failing. This is what it looks like when they're pulling out all the stops, and it isn't enough! As things stand and with everything they know, they do not think humanity will survive. They aren't saving the world here, they're buying time. They're buying time in the hopes that someone else will succeed where they've failed and figure it all out. They don't just need a strong warrior or a wiseman, they need a god-damned Miracle Worker to figure this shit out.

With everything the Nara projections have shown, between Asuma and Shikamaru, they don't think they have what it takes to pull it off. Fucking Mori Ami, famed "Miss Can-Do-Anything" thought humanity was doomed at the start of the quest. Yet, there is someone they know who regularly does the impossible. Who made the power of flight commonplace. Who conspired to acquire no less than 4 (and counting!) Sage-tier Summoning Artifacts of power. Who turned the vile gaze of Orochimaru of the Three to something that would benefit humanity and had Orochimaru happy to do so. Who threaded the needle and allowed the Allied Forces to stop Pain's Ritual just in the nick of time. Who discovered the powers of a blizzard God from a C-tier air conditioning ability. Who discovered nightmarish eldritch monsters from beyond time and space and killed one as a Chuunin. Whose Sealing competes with the best in the world at the age of 16. And so much more.

They aren't just buying time to implement some worldsaving strategy. They don't have one. Buy more time and pray is the best they've got. And when it comes to doing the impossible there's only one obvious candidate. They need a Miracle Worker.

They need Goketsu fucking Hazou.
 
Time to speechify towards Shikamaru ^.^

I keep seeing people say Asuma and Shikamaru are going to assassinate Hazou for knowing about EM nuke, to protect Leaf or the world or whatever, and imo this represents a huge misunderstanding from the information this chapter gave us. Shikamaru was very blatant this update about what he thought humanity's prospects were looking like, whether Isan was destroyed or not. Shikamaru is Asuma's top advisor, Asuma knows exactly how grim things are. What's the takeaway here?

They think humanity is fucked.

This is with the Thinkers doing literally everything they can to preserve the world, and they're failing. This is what it looks like when they're pulling out all the stops, and it isn't enough! As things stand and with everything they know, they do not think humanity will survive. They aren't saving the world here, they're buying time. They're buying time in the hopes that someone else will succeed where they've failed and figure it all out. They don't just need a strong warrior or a wiseman, they need a god-damned Miracle Worker to figure this shit out.

With everything the Nara projections have shown, between Asuma and Shikamaru, they don't think they have what it takes to pull it off. Fucking Mori Ami, famed "Miss Can-Do-Anything" thought humanity was doomed at the start of the quest. Yet, there is someone they know who regularly does the impossible. Who made the power of flight commonplace. Who conspired to acquire no less than 4 (and counting!) Sage-tier Summoning Artifacts of power. Who turned the vile gaze of Orochimaru of the Three to something that would benefit humanity and had Orochimaru happy to do so. Who threaded the needle and allowed the Allied Forces to stop Pain's Ritual just in the nick of time. Who discovered the powers of a blizzard God from a C-tier air conditioning ability. Who discovered nightmarish eldritch monsters from beyond time and space and killed one as a Chuunin. Whose Sealing competes with the best in the world at the age of 16. And so much more.

They aren't just buying time to implement some worldsaving strategy. They don't have one. Buy more time and pray is the best they've got. And when it comes to doing the impossible there's only one obvious candidate. They need a Miracle Worker.

They need Goketsu fucking Hazou.
 
Frankly I don't think Oro can be considered to have 'held up'. He cracked like an egg. He just happened to have been further along the path to jonin than we are, probably because of Hiruzen.
That's what I was implying.
Hazou went the path of pain making him stronger, while Oro went the path of '-IthurtsIthurtsIthurtsmakeitstopmakeitstopmakeitstop-'.
 
I mean...the Thinkers have shown 0 impressive feats to make me think they can accurately judge humanity. And Asuma's dumber than them. They don't need Hazou, they need less ego and self-importance than to just think they're always super duper right about everything (and they've been wrong multiple times in just Hazou's short 2 year stint).
 
Hooooooly crap paper you madlad, that was an AMAZING chapter!

The bit with the two lovers as their story was revealed piece by piece, and then the ending in the cold gave me a hard flashback to the end of Re:Zero Episode 15 in all of the best (and worst) ways.

10/10, 100/100, best story, BEST STORY!
 
SHIKAMARU: Only the small line at the bottom includes civilization's survival in any form.
HAZOU: It's still going down, even at the end of the chart,
SHIKAMARU: Yes.
HAZOU: Have you accounted for the Hazo factor? You know, the possibility that I will invent a seal or procedure or technique that not only solves this issue but causes babies to appear out of thin air into wiling couples' hands and makes violence impossible all over the world? Yeah, that Hazo factor.
SHIKAMARU: ...oh shit.
ASUMA: ...oh shit.

And thus the EM nuking of Isan never happened and Hazou et al lived happily ever after until the babymaking seal drowned the EN in an ocean of wriggling, immortal babies.
 
I keep seeing people say Asuma and Shikamaru are going to assassinate Hazou for knowing about EM nuke, to protect Leaf or the world or whatever, and imo this represents a huge misunderstanding from the information this chapter gave us. Shikamaru was very blatant this update about what he thought humanity's prospects were looking like, whether Isan was destroyed or not. Shikamaru is Asuma's top advisor, Asuma knows exactly how grim things are. What's the takeaway here?

They think humanity is fucked.

This is with the Thinkers doing literally everything they can to preserve the world, and they're failing. This is what it looks like when they're pulling out all the stops, and it isn't enough! As things stand and with everything they know, they do not think humanity will survive. They aren't saving the world here, they're buying time. They're buying time in the hopes that someone else will succeed where they've failed and figure it all out. They don't just need a strong warrior or a wiseman, they need a god-damned Miracle Worker to figure this shit out.

With everything the Nara projections have shown, between Asuma and Shikamaru, they don't think they have what it takes to pull it off. Fucking Mori Ami, famed "Miss Can-Do-Anything" thought humanity was doomed at the start of the quest. Yet, there is someone they know who regularly does the impossible. Who made the power of flight commonplace. Who conspired to acquire no less than 4 (and counting!) Sage-tier Summoning Artifacts of power. Who turned the vile gaze of Orochimaru of the Three to something that would benefit humanity and had Orochimaru happy to do so. Who threaded the needle and allowed the Allied Forces to stop Pain's Ritual just in the nick of time. Who discovered the powers of a blizzard God from a C-tier air conditioning ability. Who discovered nightmarish eldritch monsters from beyond time and space and killed one as a Chuunin. Whose Sealing competes with the best in the world at the age of 16. And so much more.

They aren't just buying time to implement some worldsaving strategy. They don't have one. Buy more time and pray is the best they've got. And when it comes to doing the impossible there's only one obvious candidate. They need a Miracle Worker.

They need Goketsu fucking Hazou.
"Why does your clan have any interest in me?" Kei expanded. "As a Mori, I am a barely-competent genin. You must have Nara of superior abilities by the dozen. And your clan has proven beyond any doubt that you know how to forge unbreakable alliances without intermarriage. Why expend all this effort to obtain me?"

Nara studied her wordlessly for a while. They were alone in the park, Kei realised, beneath a slowly darkening sky. There was a peculiar sense in the air. Not of romance, however certain persons might delude themselves, but perhaps of intimacy.

"Because we are failing," Nara said.

"What do you mean?"

"The Senju after whom this park is named sought to save the world with their open hearts," Nara said distantly, meditatively, gazing into the koi pond as if sufficient contemplation of its depths would reveal the secrets of the universe. "They came further than any have before or since. But it was not enough, and now they're gone.

"The Uchiha, who first fought then supported the Senju, sought to save the world with their unyielding determination. We know, now, what happens when such determination points itself in the wrong direction even briefly.

"The Nara, who supported both, have sought to save the world with genius and patience. It is not enough."

"I don't understand," Kei admitted. What did any of this have to do with her?

"Patience is not enough," Nara said. "We have been exerting control, slowly and subtly, for as long as the clan has existed, and the world is still like this.

"Genius is not enough. A bright spark independently arrives at a vision for a peaceful utopia, and his first world-changing act is to create a weapon that heralds a new scale of destruction. This is not an anomaly, Gōketsu. Every genius ends up drunk on their own brilliance in one way or another."

"Then what are you saying?" Kei asked quietly. "That there is no hope? That the Nara have resigned themselves to waiting for the end?"

"No," Nara gave a wry smile. "The curse of apathy cuts both ways, you see. Those who aren't enthused by visions of victory also aren't depressed by the prospect of defeat.

"The Nara need to change, Gōketsu," he said in a voice that sounded like it wanted to be casual but wasn't. "That's your answer. And it seems our motivation doesn't stretch far enough for us to change ourselves. We need new ways of thinking. We need enrichment through intellectual exchange in order to escape our stagnation. It's why we've thrown ourselves behind Jiraiya. He is the right man in the right place at the right time, and with our help he might be able to break down the walls that isolate the villages. It will not be enough for eternal peace—we've run the calculations—but it will give us direct access to the others of our kind. A chance to unite instead of being pulled apart by political currents. And that will be something the world has never seen.

"To my father, your adoption is probably a microcosm of that. You're similar enough to fully integrate and different enough to offer something new. The fact that you also further various political goals doesn't hurt either."

"Me?" Kei asked dazedly. "You think I have something to offer? Something to teach?"

"I think nothing," Nara said. "I think it is unreasonable to place towering expectations on a random stranger—no offence—because they happen to have a convenient background. I think you are a decent person who deserves better than to be caught up in the troublesome machinations of three powerful clans.

"With that said, if you choose to treat this injustice as an opportunity to find out how far the full extent of your abilities can take you, that is your right. And I daresay there are more tedious diversions than taking an interest in a spouse's personal projects."

It was as close, Kei suspected, as he would come to an open pledge of support.

"Thank you for your thoughts, Nara," she said. "If you would kindly escort me home… I believe I have much to consider."

"Of course, milady. And if I should be struck with a sudden urge to trespass into your domicile and challenge your stepbrother to some game for the purposes of intellectual evisceration?"

"Nara," Kei attempted a wicked smile, "be my guest."
 
... We were just complicit in killing Kagome's girlfriend, weren't we?

But seriously. I know Asuma said up to a year, but as Isan's main ally, we're going to need to be the ones that notice they're missing, check it out, and then presumably tell AMITY. People in Leaf have correspondence with at least a couple of them. And we definitely can't get away with saying we didn't know a whole village was gone. And I don't think AMITY will like it if we keep something like this to ourselves either.
 
But seriously. I know Asuma said up to a year, but as Isan's main ally, we're going to need to be the ones that notice they're missing, check it out, and then presumably tell AMITY. People in Leaf have correspondence with at least a couple of them. And we definitely can't get away with saying we didn't know a whole village was gone. And I don't think AMITY will like it if we keep something like this to ourselves either.
ASUMA: So what you're saying is that we need to arrange Kagome's death.

HAZOU: No wai-

ASUMA: *gestures to hidden ANBU*

HAZOU: Fuck.
 
HAZOU: Have you accounted for the Hazo factor? You know, the possibility that I will invent a seal or procedure or technique that not only solves this issue but causes babies to appear out of thin air into wiling couples' hands and makes violence impossible all over the world? Yeah, that Hazo factor.
ASUMA'S SON: "Daddy, how are babies made?"
ASUMA: stares into the distance
ASUMA (resentfully): "...Gōketsu Hazō."
 
Also, realization: it's entirely possible that one day someone would have pushed EM into nuke territory. But what are the odds that they survived that? Like, Hazou and Akane had skywalkers, shadow clones, and a sealmaster's ingrained paranoia about research, AND hivemind fingers on the scale, and we barely survived it. This doesn't change the longest-term potential, but much more likely then someone discovering nukes and immediately weaponizing them, is someone discovering it while training and taking out their home village by accident. Ice vortexes become known as just one more phenomenon in an already terrible hellscape.

I don't think this would have convinced Asuma or Shikamaru, but I still wish I had thought of it earlier.
 
Also, realization: it's entirely possible that one day someone would have pushed EM into nuke territory. But what are the odds that they survived that? Like, Hazou and Akane had skywalkers, shadow clones, and a sealmaster's ingrained paranoia about research, AND hivemind fingers on the scale, and we barely survived it. This doesn't change the longest-term potential, but much more likely then someone discovering nukes and immediately weaponizing them, is someone discovering it while training and taking out their home village by accident. Ice vortexes become known as just one more phenomenon in an already terrible hellscape.

I don't think this would have convinced Asuma or Shikamaru, but I still wish I had thought of it earlier.
"The unique Elemental Mastery effect was discovered within years of it leaving Isan with a single user, primarily bottlenecked on the user's skill. This suggests that rediscovery is highly likely if others gain access to Elemental Mastery. While initial rediscoveries will almost certainly be lethal to the user, it is a matter of time before someone, possibly the Isanese who themselves will be able to observe the pattern of who they sold ninjutsu to, realizes the technique's weaponization potential.

"Once this is known, it will not take long for civilization to end. A jōnin will likely be able to cast the technique three or four times in a day, escaping each cast with the aid of skywalkers. In a single day, one jōnin could destroy Hidden Leaf, Tanzaku Gai, Otafuku Gai, and Keishi. Within ten days, every town of greater than a thousand people in Fire Country could be destroyed. Working in concert, a group of ten Fire Element jōnin, likely within the resources available to every major Hidden Village bar Sand, could annihilate every square mile of the Land of Fire within two months.

"This ability will be symmetrically available to everyone that Isan elects to trade with, and given the AMITY treaties, this will likely be everyone. Therefore, absent our intervention, the new meeting of AMITY this winter will give every major Hidden Village the ability to annihilate civilization within the following year. The actions of entire nations is not the only concern. Any individual jōnin from those villages, if ever they desire to, may themselves choose to defect and annihilate countries in days with only a modest supply of skywalkers. Any sufficiently motivated and adequately supplied individual could single-handedly end civilization. Needless to say, the problem compounds when you consider the wide range of tools available to different villages, ranging from their own unique bloodlines, ninjutsu, seals, or more esoteric options."

"That is… thorough." Hazō said.

"It is only a projection," Shikamaru said. "The time until civilizational annihilation is variable. That it will happen on the current trajectory is certain. Elemental Mastery is in Isan's ninjutsu canon for good reason – it is easy to learn and provides valuable utility with minimal training. Yet, it doesn't have combat utility that would make people hesitate to share it. Isan has already demonstrated that they are willing to trade it to untrusted outsiders, so it will be among the first techniques that they exchange with other villages. Proliferation is essentially guaranteed."
 
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