Pretty sure some of these stories are classified.
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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
Pretty sure some of these stories are classified.
I believe dog social dynamics, plus Hazou's recent foul-up got us in the dog house. Telling them that we overthrew a human pack leader would not go down smooth. At all.
We're still paying the price for destabilizing the 7th path as is.
Probably Opsec concerns as well.
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[X] Action Plan: Great Seal? More like Great Sensei
HI, mostly lurker here, but didn't see this talked about too much, so wanted to mention:
Maybe we ought to consider conspiring with Ami about Oro contingencies? The recent update mentioned she wasn't happy about not being able to deal with him yet, which is a sentiment I think we probably share. Working with her on this improves both our odds of finding a reasonable contingency plan for Oro, shows we're trying to make strides to never end up in a sacrificing kei scenario again, and backs up us bringing up the FGP stuff as problematic without attacking Ami about it.
It's also arguably treason, especially at wartime when we've been explicitly told Oro is very important to the war effort. But A) contingencies probably don't come into play unless it's a do or die thing, B) it feels like it'll take a while to get to a point where we can reasonably enact an Oro contingency plan, maybe we won't be at war by that time? C) when has that ever stopped us before.
Either way, not a this plan thing to consider I don't think, but something to discuss for the future perhaps?
HI, mostly lurker here, but didn't see this talked about too much, so wanted to mention:
Maybe we ought to consider conspiring with Ami about Oro contingencies? The recent update mentioned she wasn't happy about not being able to deal with him yet, which is a sentiment I think we probably share. Working with her on this improves both our odds of finding a reasonable contingency plan for Oro, shows we're trying to make strides to never end up in a sacrificing kei scenario again, and backs up us bringing up the FGP stuff as problematic without attacking Ami about it.
It's also arguably treason, especially at wartime when we've been explicitly told Oro is very important to the war effort. But A) contingencies probably don't come into play unless it's a do or die thing, B) it feels like it'll take a while to get to a point where we can reasonably enact an Oro contingency plan, maybe we won't be at war by that time? C) when has that ever stopped us before.
Either way, not a this plan thing to consider I don't think, but something to discuss for the future perhaps?
- Location
- USA
Coming up with ways to keep Orochimaru from consuming our loved ones is most likely not treason, at least until those ways start to involve killing him (which is comfortably out of our grasp for now). I agree that we should try to realign with Ami on Oro next cycle, which we could also use to sort out Hazou's feelings on the FGP.
Aodyssey
The glass will not protecc you
- Location
- Chaldea
That was worth biting the bullet and reading the other two highly stressful Velorien chapter.
I think we lost some relationships point with Ami on account of not considering her family, confirmed by Kei. I don't even know what Snowflake thinks of Hazo anymore.
I promise I'll appear* and vote for any plans that includes going on a date with Snowflake.
*Please ping if i ded
I think we lost some relationships point with Ami on account of not considering her family, confirmed by Kei. I don't even know what Snowflake thinks of Hazo anymore.
I promise I'll appear* and vote for any plans that includes going on a date with Snowflake.
*Please ping if i ded
Aodyssey
The glass will not protecc you
- Location
- Chaldea
@Paperclipped Could you fit in (offscreen) buy a gift/something nice for
Keiko and Snowflake once we learned that no one died, was observably sad or any disastrous happened? We don't necessarily need to see a debrief scene, but I think we should still do something.Maybe like a mouthwash or something.
[X] Action Plan: Great Seal? More like Great Sensei
Keiko and Snowflake once we learned that no one died, was observably sad or any disastrous happened? We don't necessarily need to see a debrief scene, but I think we should still do something.
[X] Action Plan: Great Seal? More like Great Sensei
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Not the way you're suggesting, no. Mostly, I handle things the way @eaglejarl described.
Making a large effortpost in the thread for a potential Dragon-slaying weapon. Parts are copy pasted from the Discord.
So I've been thinking about Five Seal Barrier'd (FSB'd) spidersilk as a potential Dragon-slaying weapon for a while now. I call the proposed weapon the skyslicer. I want to deploy it against Dragons when Hazou's Consequences heal.
The basic idea of a skytower is to use a coil of ninja wire to support a wooden platform in the sky at arbitrary altitude. This has possible weaponizable properties, wires will cut if sufficient force is applied to them, the thinner the wire the easier they cut. Skip the platform on a skytower and you're halfway to ruining the day of any flying creature that runs into the support.
It's possible to improve on this in a couple ways, use spidersilk instead of ninja wire, spidersilk is stronger for a thinner cord, IRL spiders can do about 3 μm, thinner than a razor blade. It would take some experimentation to find the optimal thickness of silk for covering as large an area as possible without breaking. FSB's can be applied 3-100 m from the central seal, so we're looking at a possible area covering a disk 200 m in diameter. Have the Arachinds manufacture skyslicer nets with 20' x 20' squares that cover the full 200 m diameter circle. Camouflage the outriggers that the support seals lie on so that they blend into the sky better. Other suggestions welcome here!
Thankfully there's no problem with using as much spidersilk as practical to hold in place. The FSB is limited by volume of the object even a very long thread has a tiny volume compared to moderately sized three dimensional objects.
The effect should be like an apple slicer on meth, anything that flies or runs into the disk is chopped to bits by the skyslicer. No earthly creature would even feel resistance at even a moderate running pace.
The skyslicer ambush plan is the following:
1) Get some Arachnids and Hornets trained in the activation of seals (already done?)
2) Set up skyslicer(s) midair with Hornets and a waiting ambush underground- set up the ambush so the Dragon flies through the skyslicer before it uses its fire attack. Use the survivors of bait teams to make a best guess of range
3) Make sure to get far enough away from the GS that seals/jutsu behave normally
4) With the bait teams we've been using to lure the Dragons away from the GS, lure a the target Dragon into the skyslicer. Try to catch the Dragon mid-lunge.
5) Set up the ambush underground to avoid Alertness checks against low-Stealth heavy combat Arachnids, use Mite spies above ground to signal the ambush team when the Dragon is in range. Use heavy-combat Arachnids and tunneling Arachnids in the ambush team. Escape jutsu also desired.
6) If the Dragon somehow survives the skyslicer, the ambush team pops up from underground attacks it with everything they've got and any seals we can give them implosion seals, earbusters, explosives, youthanizers, force wall saws, anything we can think of - suggestions welcome here
7) It should be dead, if it's still alive, get the hell away
Now this would work on anything that obeys the laws of physics. Dragons possibly don't, but let's make some reasonable assumptions and see how tough their scales would need to be to resist an attack like this. The major stumbling block is that the 5SB'd nets are vulnerable to fire, so if the bait is too close to the skyslicer, the Dragon will roast them before flying through.
This is the current best working description we have of a Dragon. If we take the serpentine description and run with it (as the others don't exactly have real life equivalents), we can compare it to real life snakes. The largest of which is the green anaconda, which can reliably weigh 97.5 kg for a 5.6 m (18 ft) snake.
(This next section is based on my best guesses, criticism welcome and numbers will be updated)
Now we scale up according to the square-cube law, where every doubling of length multiplies the volume -and therefore the mass- of the serpentine creature by eightfold. 18 -> 36 (x8) -> 72 (x64) -> 144 (x512) -> 288 (x4096)
So a small dragon (80 ft) should weigh about 7,000 kg, a medium (150 ft) at 50,000 kg and a large (300 ft) at 400,000 kg. For reference, the heaviest blue whale ever recorded clocked in at 190000 kg. So we're not getting totally crazy here. Animals that heavy shouldn't be able to breathe out of the water, let alone fly, but chakra is a thing in MfD. Our wild asspulling is looking pretty good so far.
All we have to go based on speed is "frighteningly fast in sustained flight" and "terrifyingly fast in a quick lunge". As enormous multi-ton serpents(?), there's no possible physical way they could ever keep up with a 4 oz bird. So I'll be generous and say they do peregrine falcon diving speed (fastest animal flight) as their quick lunge flight speed, that's about 100 m/s (250 mph). Since peregrine falcons typically cruise about 1/5 of their diving speed, I'll do an appropriate decrease for cruise speed, call it 20 m/s (50 mph). I would call those numbers frighteningly fast and terrifyingly fast. I sure would be frightened if I saw a 150 ft Dragon coming at me at 50 mph.
Small Dragon, cruising- ((0.5*7000*20^2)/0.05)/(21.336*3e-6) = 437 GPa
Small Dragon, lunging- ((0.5*7000*100^2)/0.05)/(21.336*3e-6) = 10900 GPa
Medium Dragon, cruising- ((0.5*50000*20^2)/0.05)/(45.72*3e-6) = 1450 GPa
Medium Dragon, lunging- ((0.5*50000*100^2)/0.05)/(45.72*3e-6) = 36500 GPa
Large Dragon, cruising- ((0.5*400000*20^2)/0.05)/(91.44*3e-6) = 5830 GPa
Large Dragon, lunging- ((0.5*400000*100^2)/0.05)/(91.44*3e-6) = 146000 GPa
So this very generous model says that at cruising speed, the very smallest Dragons impact with more than 1500x enough pressure to puncture steel. When lunging, the largest impacts with 530,000x the pressure needed to puncture steel. But forget about steel, steel is weak. Diamond has a Vickers hardness of 115 GPa, still lower than the pressures created in the collision with the smallest Dragon at cruising speed. This will cut scales made of biodiamond. If they can be hurt by physical objects, this will hurt them.
Draping more threads over the total cross section of the Dragon will slice them into smaller pieces. I think that's important for making the skyslicer more damaging. It will increase the impact cross section and decrease the pressure. So I have been very generous in the model so far (5 cm deflection, impact over entire length of longest axis) to account for it. Under my assumptions about mass and velocity, a more rigorous model would output higher pressures, I am fairly confident (70%).
That's all for why the weapon should work on anything that obeys physics. The last word on Discord was to bring this to Kumokugo (sanity check with Mari, go over tactics with Keiko and Shikamaru, and ask Asuma if we can share OPSEC first ofc) and start field testing skyslicers if she thinks the idea has merit. IMO we need seal trained Hornets to really get the most out of the skyslicer, and the teams shouldn't be emplacing one for the first time during the ambush, that means time to run drills and prepare, as well as get more Hornets and Arachnids trained on seal activation.
The idea has been brought to Kumokugo and she's moving forward with it. Hazou is probably too valuable to risk in the actual ambush. But he does have special Dragon-sensing powers from his Out-Exposures. It might be worth having him along for that. I'd suggest leaving it up to his superiors - Cannai and Kumokugo.
EDIT 1: Added comparison to hardness of diamond, very favorable
EDIT 2: Added Force Wall Saws to list of backup weapons, they're even sharper than the skyslicer
EDIT 3: Moving forward with the skyslicers
EDIT 4: Noted problems with dragonfire as the main issue with deployment and ambush, and noted the net sizes based on a Dragon width of 30' as observed by Hazou in Chapter 492
EDIT 5: Changed ambush details for clarity
EDIT 6: It works!
So I've been thinking about Five Seal Barrier'd (FSB'd) spidersilk as a potential Dragon-slaying weapon for a while now. I call the proposed weapon the skyslicer. I want to deploy it against Dragons when Hazou's Consequences heal.
The basic idea of a skytower is to use a coil of ninja wire to support a wooden platform in the sky at arbitrary altitude. This has possible weaponizable properties, wires will cut if sufficient force is applied to them, the thinner the wire the easier they cut. Skip the platform on a skytower and you're halfway to ruining the day of any flying creature that runs into the support.
It's possible to improve on this in a couple ways, use spidersilk instead of ninja wire, spidersilk is stronger for a thinner cord, IRL spiders can do about 3 μm, thinner than a razor blade. It would take some experimentation to find the optimal thickness of silk for covering as large an area as possible without breaking. FSB's can be applied 3-100 m from the central seal, so we're looking at a possible area covering a disk 200 m in diameter. Have the Arachinds manufacture skyslicer nets with 20' x 20' squares that cover the full 200 m diameter circle. Camouflage the outriggers that the support seals lie on so that they blend into the sky better. Other suggestions welcome here!
Thankfully there's no problem with using as much spidersilk as practical to hold in place. The FSB is limited by volume of the object even a very long thread has a tiny volume compared to moderately sized three dimensional objects.
The effect should be like an apple slicer on meth, anything that flies or runs into the disk is chopped to bits by the skyslicer. No earthly creature would even feel resistance at even a moderate running pace.
The skyslicer ambush plan is the following:
1) Get some Arachnids and Hornets trained in the activation of seals (already done?)
2) Set up skyslicer(s) midair with Hornets and a waiting ambush underground- set up the ambush so the Dragon flies through the skyslicer before it uses its fire attack. Use the survivors of bait teams to make a best guess of range
3) Make sure to get far enough away from the GS that seals/jutsu behave normally
4) With the bait teams we've been using to lure the Dragons away from the GS, lure a the target Dragon into the skyslicer. Try to catch the Dragon mid-lunge.
5) Set up the ambush underground to avoid Alertness checks against low-Stealth heavy combat Arachnids, use Mite spies above ground to signal the ambush team when the Dragon is in range. Use heavy-combat Arachnids and tunneling Arachnids in the ambush team. Escape jutsu also desired.
6) If the Dragon somehow survives the skyslicer, the ambush team pops up from underground attacks it with everything they've got and any seals we can give them implosion seals, earbusters, explosives, youthanizers, force wall saws, anything we can think of - suggestions welcome here
7) It should be dead, if it's still alive, get the hell away
Now this would work on anything that obeys the laws of physics. Dragons possibly don't, but let's make some reasonable assumptions and see how tough their scales would need to be to resist an attack like this. The major stumbling block is that the 5SB'd nets are vulnerable to fire, so if the bait is too close to the skyslicer, the Dragon will roast them before flying through.
Velorien on Discord said:
This is the current best working description we have of a Dragon. If we take the serpentine description and run with it (as the others don't exactly have real life equivalents), we can compare it to real life snakes. The largest of which is the green anaconda, which can reliably weigh 97.5 kg for a 5.6 m (18 ft) snake.
(This next section is based on my best guesses, criticism welcome and numbers will be updated)
Now we scale up according to the square-cube law, where every doubling of length multiplies the volume -and therefore the mass- of the serpentine creature by eightfold. 18 -> 36 (x8) -> 72 (x64) -> 144 (x512) -> 288 (x4096)
So a small dragon (80 ft) should weigh about 7,000 kg, a medium (150 ft) at 50,000 kg and a large (300 ft) at 400,000 kg. For reference, the heaviest blue whale ever recorded clocked in at 190000 kg. So we're not getting totally crazy here. Animals that heavy shouldn't be able to breathe out of the water, let alone fly, but chakra is a thing in MfD. Our wild asspulling is looking pretty good so far.
All we have to go based on speed is "frighteningly fast in sustained flight" and "terrifyingly fast in a quick lunge". As enormous multi-ton serpents(?), there's no possible physical way they could ever keep up with a 4 oz bird. So I'll be generous and say they do peregrine falcon diving speed (fastest animal flight) as their quick lunge flight speed, that's about 100 m/s (250 mph). Since peregrine falcons typically cruise about 1/5 of their diving speed, I'll do an appropriate decrease for cruise speed, call it 20 m/s (50 mph). I would call those numbers frighteningly fast and terrifyingly fast. I sure would be frightened if I saw a 150 ft Dragon coming at me at 50 mph.
This formula is great, thanks for already doing all the actual work, my only quibble is that I'm unsure where the 60 μm figure for the diameter of the spidersilk came from, I seem to be getting 3 μm when I Google. I'm going to run with my number, but I'll keep the disagreement in mind. Otherwise this is perfect for the next step. Which is to see how a single line of a skyslicer impacts a small, medium and large size Dragon at cruising and lunging speeds. I'll keep d = 5 cm. That seems like a generous amount of elasticity for anything. The harder the scales, the less they'll deflect anyway. For the cross sectional area, I will use the longest axis that the Dragon could possibly impact on-the side.
Small Dragon, cruising- ((0.5*7000*20^2)/0.05)/(21.336*3e-6) = 437 GPa
Small Dragon, lunging- ((0.5*7000*100^2)/0.05)/(21.336*3e-6) = 10900 GPa
Medium Dragon, cruising- ((0.5*50000*20^2)/0.05)/(45.72*3e-6) = 1450 GPa
Medium Dragon, lunging- ((0.5*50000*100^2)/0.05)/(45.72*3e-6) = 36500 GPa
Large Dragon, cruising- ((0.5*400000*20^2)/0.05)/(91.44*3e-6) = 5830 GPa
Large Dragon, lunging- ((0.5*400000*100^2)/0.05)/(91.44*3e-6) = 146000 GPa
So this very generous model says that at cruising speed, the very smallest Dragons impact with more than 1500x enough pressure to puncture steel. When lunging, the largest impacts with 530,000x the pressure needed to puncture steel. But forget about steel, steel is weak. Diamond has a Vickers hardness of 115 GPa, still lower than the pressures created in the collision with the smallest Dragon at cruising speed. This will cut scales made of biodiamond. If they can be hurt by physical objects, this will hurt them.
Draping more threads over the total cross section of the Dragon will slice them into smaller pieces. I think that's important for making the skyslicer more damaging. It will increase the impact cross section and decrease the pressure. So I have been very generous in the model so far (5 cm deflection, impact over entire length of longest axis) to account for it. Under my assumptions about mass and velocity, a more rigorous model would output higher pressures, I am fairly confident (70%).
If you want to take this further. I'd say 15 cm thickness hardened steel for their scales-that's the thickness of modern tank armor, with mass and velocity as detailed in this post. Also any issues or revisions you have with my mass and velocity estimates are more than welcome.
Victory! It works. Beautiful. Thanks everyone.
EDIT 1: Added comparison to hardness of diamond, very favorable
EDIT 2: Added Force Wall Saws to list of backup weapons, they're even sharper than the skyslicer
EDIT 3: Moving forward with the skyslicers
EDIT 4: Noted problems with dragonfire as the main issue with deployment and ambush, and noted the net sizes based on a Dragon width of 30' as observed by Hazou in Chapter 492
EDIT 5: Changed ambush details for clarity
EDIT 6: It works!
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Noumero
Omit Needless Words
This, as @RandomOTP would put it, means something. But sadly, I perceive a low likelihood of this line of inquiry terminating in unique & startling Forbidden Lore revelations. It's probably just that Ami likes lavender and/or appreciates flowers' symbolic connotations. Might be useful to note for the purposes of
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- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I say the Kraken Scroll should have the highest priority since once the war is over grabbing it has high diplomatic consequences. (Also I am a sucker for a scroll hunt when don't have to be nice guys)
Also am very on board with getting everyone on uplift training with skyslider. Personally want to invite Sasuke or Harumitsu to join us in conquering the skies
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- Location
- Italy
We should probably vote for "Ask Mari the how feasible it is to try to hunt the Kraken Scroll, and if Asuma would go for it/what he would to with the scroll" this seem a good way to lay the groundwork, maybe even this update, if there is the wordcount?
- Location
- USA
[X] Interlude: Team Downfall
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Action Plan: Great Seal? More like Great Sensei
This is a good idea, we should do it. We can leverage the chapter for wholesome moments (Keeping the tension low with jokes about the "marriage" contract, bringing our own how, lavender-scented towel for Ami, and whatever else). It'll be nice!
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Can you add something to the effect of "Have Fifi in the room when asking these questions?" Fifi is (effectively) Kagome's therapy cat, and also frequently demands pets from Hazou while he does his paperwork, so it wouldn't be too unusual (it was a throwaway line many chapters ago, but it was wholesome, so let's use that to create more wholesome moments).
Unless Fifi is secretly a Chakra Chameleon or something.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
agree with this at most the only meeting should be getting permission from Asuma for us to go raid our enemies[X] Action Plan: Great Seal? More like Great Sensei
Meeting
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Possibly offscreened?Meeting
- Location
- Italy
[X] Action Plan: Great Seal? More like Great Sensei
Meeting
The alternative is not doing our homework and risking ending with a Kaiju. Counter-proposal, add it to the off-screen section.
EDIT: also, how are we dealing with possible OPSEC issues from the taleswap?
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hate to say it, but OPSEC and nature chakra inquiries likely ought to be run by Mari first
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We have already done all of our homework in regards to the Kraken scroll. All we need is permission from Asuma.
- Location
- Italy
Did we put a Training plan for Akane? Because as she's healed, it means she's going to go on missions
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It didn't pass afaik
- Location
- Yes.
Basically this. @Paperclipped can we just run the whole plan by Mari and be done with it?
And, as appropriate, do other required activities like Dog pushups/patrol and clan work? I know it's a waste of word count but we seem to have the excess?
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
30 um was an approximation based on a range of figures. It was deliberately conservative.