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+1 to this! Hazou has been extremely deferential to Cannai in all their interactions so far (enough that Cannai is usually telling Hazou to chill out about it) so it doesn't seem like Hazou would do this. That being said, Hazou not noticing at all that it's treason until Mari reminds him without the "better to ask forgiveness than permission" still results in the same outcome/resolution right? Except maybe you'd expect Cannai to be a bit more forgiving
Look, I see the point you are making and I partially agree with some of it. That said, I really think you should pick your battles. We went from being kicked off the Seventh Path to spending some time with border patrol dogs. That's a massive win. It's really not a smart idea to try and pick flaws with the retcon when its massively in our favor, especially since it's not written yet. Just accept the win and move on.
 
A slightly better model won't convince him of anything. He won't even see it. If you really want to convince him, have Asuma assure him it's been verified by Enma. Or better yet, have one of the Conclave clans send an ambassador to Snake so that Manda can be in the loop and tell Orochimaru.

However.....It might not be a good idea to have Orochimaru join the project. If he's involved, he'll take over completely and we'll lose our ability to pursue our own ideas. Not to mention that we'll be around Orochimaru far more frequently while he's already curious about our bloodline (a bloodline which will come up as we talk about the Seal)
Kabuto already brought it to his attention and he brushed it aside. When the malus is gone next week, Kabuto might try again. Out of our hands already tbh.
 
Look, I see the point you are making and I partially agree with some of it. That said, I really think you should pick your battles. We went from being kicked off the Seventh Path to spending some time with border patrol dogs. That's a massive win. It's really not a smart idea to try and pick flaws with the retcon when its massively in our favor, especially since it's not written yet. Just accept the win and move on.
Ah sorry maybe I didn't communicate what I meant well there. My second sentence was me saying to @Rafin that even though I agree that "better to ask for forgiveness than permission" is out of character for Hazou, I don't think removing that bit changes the outcome, so it doesn't matter. It's also expressing a "best to just move on" view :)

(Which I think Rafin also agrees with btw, he states explicitly that he has no issues with the decisions made!)
 
[X] Where Hazō "Uplifts"

This should probably include something about patrolling the border with the Hyena tribe. Get a briefing from Cannai on their relationship & discuss trying to trade with them. On patrol: Ask after their summoner (unless we've done that already) and see if we can get a Hyena to pass a message to initiate trade relations. Or get info about their scroll and see if they want a summoner?

[X] Where Hazō "Uplifts"
 
Remember how eaglejarl once said he didn't know how we would go about solving the Great Seal? I wasn't too sure what to think of it at the time, except for maybe referencing how each Dragon is SS-Rank and we need to kill six of them just to deal with the ones already escaped, but now that we've traced the cracks with our fingers I think I know what he meant.

This is the Sage's seal. The Great Seal. It's wrought from stone unknown to mankind and traps souldrinkers greater than demigods, beasts meant to fight against the Tenfold Abomination. We don't know if the cracks are getting worse. We don't know if the HOWS are halting the problem or merely buying time - strictly speaking they could even be making it worse. We don't know if simply placing HOWS every month is enough, even if we kill the six Dragons we may only have bought some time. The Sage is nowhere to be found and unless we dig him up from wherever the heck he was talking about in that poem we're on our own for this.

Again I stress, this is the work of the Sage, or an equally-skilled contemporary. It eclipses every other seal we've seen, even the Summoning Scrolls (the Pangolin Scroll gave us +2 TYS, the Great Seal gave us +3). We are not ready to fix it. We could become the best sealmaster in the world and probably still not be ready to fix it. But if we don't, reality dies in dragonscourge.

So here's what we do: we FOOM as hard and fast as we can, with the sole purpose of getting Hazou as optimized for this task as he possibly can be. We're not going to get good enough in a year, and that means FOOM is the fastest way to get there. So, Resolve capstone, Earthshaping and Sealing and Calligraphy right behind it, all else secondary. We'll need to be the best sealmaster alive by a longshot, good enough to invent a new medium of Sealing and push it to the point where fixing the cracks becomes more than a pipe dream.

I used to think that 3D sealing was a waste of our time, that nearly anything we could get out of it would be outstripped by an equal investment in paper and ink sealing. That was before we felt the cracks, and now I'm singing a different tune. But we're not going to make it to the top this year, maybe not this decade, or the next, or the next. The numbers show, as they always have, that the fastest path to ultimate power is to push FOOM as far as it can go, Resolve capstone, elevate our target stats in the detours. This isn't a sprint to Earthshaping 50, it's a marathon to Earthshaping 100 or even further, and the best we can do is shoot for the stars and hope we make it there in time.

[X] Training Hazō: Chakra Scarcity
 
Hazo pulling a "better ask for forgiveness than permission" is even more OOC for him than being a ditz and forgetting that asking permission is a thing IMHO.
I think perhaps we're thinking of different Hazōs. Hazō got killboxed last year after asking for forgiveness rather than permission. He also has a known trend of doing significant things without first asking himself whether the authorities would want input on them.
 
[X] Training Hazō: Chakra Scarcity

I'm torn on what to do about Ami. Part of me wants to make some contract we never think will get breached and leave it at that.

Unfortunately I don't think it'll be that easy. The clan will not be happy about having a Sword of Ami hanging over our heads, and I suspect Mari would rather risk herself rather than risk the clan. Since I doubt Mari can persuade Ami to back off, that leaves Mari with killing Ami or removing herself from the situation, assuming Mari rejects the contract at all.

And we won't be able to make a contract anyways if Kei doesn't want one -- and she really wouldn't. I can't predict how she'd feel about Ami wanting to kill Mari though. Would she lean toward letting Ami do her worst, or trying to stop her? If Kei tries to stop Ami, that challenges Kei's own belief that Ami can do no wrong. Maybe that would remind Kei of when she stopped Ami from going after Kei's bullies?

I wonder how Ami and Kei get along as sisters. It's hard for me to picture how they'd interact one on one.

I guess my ideal scenarios ranked would be Kei getting Ami to stop, Mari (peacefully) stopping Ami, contract, Mari going on vacation or something, Ami dying, Mari dying.
 
I think perhaps we're thinking of different Hazōs. Hazō got killboxed last year after asking for forgiveness rather than permission. He also has a known trend of doing significant things without first asking himself whether the authorities would want input on them.
The funny thing is this has been true from day 1. He was only a Swamp candidate because he was constantly questioning authority
 
The funny thing is this has been true from day 1. He was only a Swamp candidate because he was constantly questioning authority
It was pure chance that led Mari to be friends with Hazō's instructor, long after she had herself become a jōnin and ceased to need or want role models. Pure chance that had promoted him to her attention. Then, the bright child with a valuable bloodline was a natural candidate for Shikigami's list. And yet… Kurosawa Shin ticked the exact same boxes, but with clan training and a better record. Why had Mari chosen Hana's son? Had she been trying to step out of or into her shadow?
 
How would you expand on it? @Noumero @Sentient Tree Do you have input on it?
Maybe something along the lines of:
  • Ami harming Mari = large negative effect on Kei's relationship with the other Gōketsu. This would have a larger negative effect on her agency and happiness than the positive effect killing Mari would have on Kei's safety.
 
Remember how eaglejarl once said he didn't know how we would go about solving the Great Seal? I wasn't too sure what to think of it at the time, except for maybe referencing how each Dragon is SS-Rank and we need to kill six of them just to deal with the ones already escaped, but now that we've traced the cracks with our fingers I think I know what he meant.

This is the Sage's seal. The Great Seal. It's wrought from stone unknown to mankind and traps souldrinkers greater than demigods, beasts meant to fight against the Tenfold Abomination. We don't know if the cracks are getting worse. We don't know if the HOWS are halting the problem or merely buying time - strictly speaking they could even be making it worse. We don't know if simply placing HOWS every month is enough, even if we kill the six Dragons we may only have bought some time. The Sage is nowhere to be found and unless we dig him up from wherever the heck he was talking about in that poem we're on our own for this.

Again I stress, this is the work of the Sage, or an equally-skilled contemporary. It eclipses every other seal we've seen, even the Summoning Scrolls (the Pangolin Scroll gave us +2 TYS, the Great Seal gave us +3). We are not ready to fix it. We could become the best sealmaster in the world and probably still not be ready to fix it. But if we don't, reality dies in dragonscourge.

So here's what we do: we FOOM as hard and fast as we can, with the sole purpose of getting Hazou as optimized for this task as he possibly can be. We're not going to get good enough in a year, and that means FOOM is the fastest way to get there. So, Resolve capstone, Earthshaping and Sealing and Calligraphy right behind it, all else secondary. We'll need to be the best sealmaster alive by a longshot, good enough to invent a new medium of Sealing and push it to the point where fixing the cracks becomes more than a pipe dream.

I used to think that 3D sealing was a waste of our time, that nearly anything we could get out of it would be outstripped by an equal investment in paper and ink sealing. That was before we felt the cracks, and now I'm singing a different tune. But we're not going to make it to the top this year, maybe not this decade, or the next, or the next. The numbers show, as they always have, that the fastest path to ultimate power is to push FOOM as far as it can go, Resolve capstone, elevate our target stats in the detours. This isn't a sprint to Earthshaping 50, it's a marathon to Earthshaping 100 or even further, and the best we can do is shoot for the stars and hope we make it there in time.

[X] Training Hazō: Chakra Scarcity
I'm convinced.


[X] Training Hazō: Chakra Scarcity
 
Bumping this. We are about a week out from severes healing and I think the first thing we should do is investigate the discipline of 3D Sealing. I'm not entirely sure the Sand portion is a priority right now. It might help uncover crucial information and lore (we need to tap all the leads we can for that), but considering the current emergency and war status we may want to hold back on our week-long trip for a few months.

Aside from that, what does everyone think?

[ ] Future Plan: Investigating the Great Seal
  • Request permission from Asuma to look for DRAGONWAR-related information in Sand
    • Having him pressure the Kazekage into assisting would be enormously helpful.
      • Lore/Sealmasters definitely won't help unless Kazekage briefs them on DRAGONWAR
    • Probe Sand Sealmasters for information on 3D Sealing and other esoteric sealing disiplines
    • Probe loremasters (including at least one from the Yodomi) for information on:
      • The Sage and his companions
      • The Dragons and other powerful entities sealed by the Sage
  • Research 3D Sealing
  • Have Noburi ask the Toads about Dragons and the Sage's companions
  • Have Kagome and Kei investigate how Isan developed an entire sealing tradition from studying a single seal.
    • Do you have any insights how we should reverse-engineer 3D sealing from just the Great Seal?
    • Are there any major weaknesses in Isanese sealing that come from this? How might we avoid similar problems with our 3D sealing?
  • Ask Isolde how he originally defeated the Dragons
  • Probe Mist Sealmasters and loremasters (including Tama)
  • With Asuma's permission, talk to Aunt Ren and a Kurosawa Sealmaster about the Great Seal and the Dragons.
    • Explain how the Iron Nerve recorded details about the z-dimension.
    • Ask about Iron Nerve (worth a shot)
      • Is everything that gets recorded important?
      • How does it know what to record?
      • How can it record aspects about the Great Seal that I never saw?
      • Is there anything else I should know that would help me prevent the imminent destruction of Seventh and then Human Path?
 
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Opening Scene of pre-retcon Chapter 483
Chapter 483 received a retcon, for reasons described here.

This was the original opening segment, including the original title:




January 29, 1070 AS

Something shifted above, large enough that Hazō could feel the vibrations through fifteen feet of sandstone. He deactivated the Tunneler's Friend seal that was his only source of air and froze in place, doing everything he could to become one with the stone through which he swam. There were at most thirty seconds left on his Hiding Like a Mole jutsu, but he was taking no chances of being n.ticed b\| what was uP there and the r3membeeered feel of Akane's heartbeat p0unded in his mind as he struggled to bring up the scent of h3r hair and use it as a shield for his mind and soul.

The Dr—the source of the noise settled down. Hazō held his breath for a slow count of ten but then could wait no longer. He ducked back to the tunnel, emerging from the rock before his jutsu ended. With the way the Great Seal distorted chakra effects around itself, Hazō was taking no chances on being trapped inside the stone.

Besides, he had what he needed. For days now, he had pored over the image of the Great Seal that he held stored in the Iron Nerve. He had traced its every curve, reviewed the angles and twists and thicknesses, all in a desperate attempt to seize the key insight that would let him understand what was going wrong and how to fix it. Yesterday's meditations had brought a hint of terror to the back of his mind, leaving him no choice but to return to the Seventh Path and once more infiltrate the butte atop which rested one of the Sage's greatest works. He had swum through the mundanity of the sandstone, running his hands slowly and carefully along the smooth and unfamiliar mineral that comprised the Seal.

As he had feared: There were tiny cracks all through the bottom.

o-o-o-o​

January 30, 1070 AS

"Lev, this is Hazō. He's the Summoner I told you about."

"As far as I know, I'm the only Summoner," Hazō said, amused. "At least for the Dog Clan. Hello, Cantilever. It's lovely to meet you." He sat down on the grass so as not to tower over her, his knees pulled up and arms loosely draped around them.



The knee-high dog had toasted-butter fur, bright blue eyes, and a floofy, bouncy tail that Hazō had noticed multiple other dogs watching from the corners of their eyes. He was working hard at learning canine body language, since it seemed to make up a larger portion of their communication than words did, but he wasn't entirely sure if he was seeing jealousy, desire, or simply the fact that human and canine eyes were attracted to motion.

"And you," Cantilever said, nodding politely. "Lup has told me so much about you."

Hazō raised an eyebrow. "'Lup'?"

"It's 'Cantelope' to you, human," the male dog grumbled.

"Right, sorry."

Cantilever's tongue was very slightly blepped in ladylike canine amusement, but she rubbed her head against Cantelope's shoulder in apology, or perhaps simply affection. "Anyway, he said you wanted to talk to us together?"

"Yes, thank you. If I understand correctly, you two were looking to...take some time to travel by yourselves?" He caught himself before saying 'leave your packs', since that seemed like a fraught phrasing. "I wanted to...well, somewhere between 'offer a suggestion' and 'ask a favor.'"

Buttery fur bounced as Cantilever cocked her head in amused distrust. "Not to be too crude about it, human, but I've only got eyes for my sweetie and I'm a one-dog bitch. Even if I weren't, I'm afraid you're not my type."

Hazō blushed. "That wasn't— I didn't mean—"

Cantilever laughed and bumped her head against Hazō's knee. "I was only teasing. Relax."

Hazō gave her a grumbingly betrayed glare but snorted in amusement. "I'll be clear up front: This suggestion has a heavy dose of self-interest in it, which I'll explain in a second. Anyway, if you guys really did want to go wandering, then I wanted to ask if you would be interested in traveling to Pangolin Territory? There's an embassy there where members of a ton of different clans—all the ones that Leaf has contracts with—have gathered. It lets us do a lot to benefit both Leaf and the clans." He went on to explain the summoning trade network and the advantage of essentially real-time cross-continent coordination.

"Huh."

Cantilever sat down and thought for a moment, then began nibbling at her foreonpaw. Whether she was chewing an itch or this was simply her equivalent of the Nara 'thinking pose', Hazō had no idea.

Cantelope gave her a few seconds, but the young dog wasn't patient. "What are you thinking, Lev?"

She nibbled for another moment without responding, then licked the fur back into place and straightened up. "Lup, I'm all in for wandering around with you, hunting on our own, going where the winds will take us and seeing new sights every day. And yes, we'd see new sights doing this, but think about what he's asking. He wants us to travel all the way through Hyena Territory, then cross a mountain, then stay with these bizarre...pangolins, you called them? Stay with them forever."

"Not forever," Hazō corrected. "You could leave anytime you want, obviously. It's just—"

A basso cough from behind him made Hazō jerk around, eyes going wide as his reflexes readied him for an attack.

"Oh, Cannai," he said in relief. "I didn't see you there."

"I am aware. A word, Summoner? Cantelope, Cantilever: Stay here. I'll want to discuss this with you in a moment." The massive Dog turned and strode away across the prairie, Hazō following alongside.

They had gone twenty yards before Hazō noticed the silence.

Cannai was...solid would be the closest word in human speech. Hazō was only now realizing that, every moment he had spent with Cannai, there had been a sense of the mighty dog's presence. It was like the presence of the earth beneath your feet: So prevalent that you didn't think about it, but always there. Solid, deep, bearing you up and loaning you its strength, its touch carefully gentled so as not to harm the fragile creatures that walked across its surface. That presence was gone. Hazō could feel nothing from the Alpha of the Dog Clan.

"Sir?"

"Just a bit farther, Summoner. I wish privacy."

Hazō swallowed nervously and kept his mouth shut.

They traveled for ten minutes before Cannai stopped and turned to face Hazō.

"You will not meddle in the politics of this Path without speaking to me. You will especially never again go behind my tail in an attempt to send my pack to foreign nations."

Hazō's heart stopped, just for a moment, as he realized the magnitude of what he had done. "Sir, no, I didn't mean—"

"Be silent. I accepted you as our Summoner and I granted you permission to contract with anyone who wished to join you. I agreed to allow Canun to teach your clan member our jutsu. I sought out jutsu from the list you provided in hopes that we could have a good-faith exchange once Asuma decided what he was willing to offer."

A cold grip of fear around Hazō heart reminded him that he had never actually spoken to Asuma about that.

"I welcomed you into the Dog Clan and treated you as a pack member, and you have betrayed me. I will not remove you as Summoner in the heat of the moment, but you are no longer welcome on the Seventh Path. If I cannot trust you not to preempt my authority as Alpha then I cannot trust you to relay sensitive messages for us and I certainly cannot trust you to be working on something as powerful as the Great Seal—if it even exists, which I now must question since you are the only source of my knowledge about it. Go back to your Path. Attempt to summon Cantertot each day; eventually, after I am no longer quite so angry, I will allow the summoning to succeed. At that point you may return here and you and I will have words."

"Sir—"

"We will have words in the future. I have none for you now. Get out of my Territory."
 
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Maybe something along the lines of:
  • Ami harming Mari = large negative effect on Kei's relationship with the other Gōketsu. This would have a larger negative effect on her agency and happiness than the positive effect killing Mari would have on Kei's safety.
@Sentient Tree For example wording, did you see my attempt to include it in a plan? It was including the "Mari is net positive for her safety" point you raised earlier, not the agency/happiness point you mentioned just now though
 
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