Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

faflec · Nov 5, 2021

[x] Action Plan: Pretty Damn Far

@RandomOTP As suggested previously I highly recommend clarifying the "Whole Clan Meeting", explicitly saying who will be attending. From a brief read-through I understood it to be Hazou, Ino, Shikamaru, and Ami, plus Kei/Snowflake and possibly Akane.

Emstar · Nov 5, 2021

[x] Action Plan: Game-Theoretically Shaped Explosives

This also works, I think, on a closer read.

Lysbeth Succubus · Nov 5, 2021

roobee said:
What if we tried deescalating?

We tried that already and got kicked out of Asuma's office, and that was before the war proper had started.

roobee · Nov 5, 2021

What if we wait for Oro to talk first? It can reveal more about him. Such as if he brings up rewards himself. With Tsunade/naruto only stepping in and us bringing up our ideas only if oro starts to forcibly dissect kei or take her somewhere private. We can let him intimidate all the secrets out of Kei, with Tsunade/naruto covering her mouth if any very important secrets come up.

@eaglejarl @Velorien

eaglejarl said:
No. That would directly contradict the content of the update.

Do you mean this part?

Velorien said:
"Good," Akane said. "If we can wait until tomorrow morning, we'll be able to handle things with clear heads and without having to seek help from people whom we've just got out of bed in the middle of the night. Let's pick this up first thing in the morning."

They would not pick this up first thing in the morning.

If so, technically the text never says they never sought people out in the middle of night. Only that Akane thought it was a bad idea. In fact, "they would not pick this up first thing in the morning" could be interpreted as the group rejecting Akanes idea, which would make sense for them to do.

Velorien · Nov 5, 2021

roobee said:
@eaglejarl @Velorien

Do you mean this part?

If so, technically the text never says they never sought people out in the middle of night. Only that Akane thought it was a bad idea. In fact, "they would not pick this up first thing in the morning" could be interpreted as the group rejecting Akanes idea, which would make sense for them to do.

I'm disinclined to argue over this, but also, the update shows that nobody at the meeting, including Naruto and Ino, is aware of Kei's situation.

RandomOTP · Nov 5, 2021

faflec said:
[x] Action Plan: Pretty Damn Far

@RandomOTP As suggested previously I highly recommend clarifying the "Whole Clan Meeting", explicitly saying who will be attending. From a brief read-through I understood it to be Hazou, Ino, Shikamaru, and Ami, plus Kei/Snowflake and possibly Akane.

Aye aye, cap'n. At work for a while yet, but I'll clarify when I get back to my laptop.

fiirofa · Nov 5, 2021

[x] Action Plan: Pretty Damn Far

Been a while since I voted, or even participated for that matter, but this arc has been a terrifying delight!

faflec · Nov 5, 2021

RandomOTP said:
Aye aye, cap'n. At work for a while yet, but I'll clarify when I get back to my laptop.

Some additional thoughts, for your use:

RandomOTP said:
Summarize Situation, Present Plans.

Given the nature of the plans, both currently in the plan and those I suggest, I would highly recommend adding a "these are half-baked ideas that may just be whimsical pipe dreams, please do not assume malice if they are obviously unworkable" sort of thing? If only to keep another Isan drama incident from happening.

RandomOTP said:
Our Priority is Kei:

Refuse to Lose Family

Kei, Snowflake, Crystal, Winterlight, Scalpel, Prism, Constellation, Spiral, Moonlight, Soar, Kitten, Whisper, Prayer, Kiss, and all those yet-unnamed.

Potential lie: Leaf thinks Snowflake is a long-term Nara social experiment. Doubledown. Claim Snowflake's an experiment regarding directed personality drift, and Mari wasn't informed. Controlling Variables. Rumor mill knows Kei and Mari aren't friendly.

Fake/backdate paperwork accordingly

Might I suggest proposing telling Orochimaru the truth, in such a way that would make Orochimaru not want to Kei's method of getting cognitively-independent Shadow Clones? To reiterate: suggest that Keiko's Shadow Clones are independent because Kei's bloodline cognitively impairs her, but Shadow Clones (which don't have bloodlines) don't have this limitation; therefore, in order for Orochimaru to gain this benefit from Shadow Clones, he must cognitively impair either himself or his Shadow Clones...and neither of these are ideas we think he would be willing to undertake.

RandomOTP said:
Share live data to Orochimaru during procedure, and explain experience in detail afterward, for more data.

YSJ/Tsunade to endure consciousness?

This should be modified to clarify that we want something to be able to share data despite the crippling pain of being vivisected; at a first glance it was NOT clear.

Orisha91 · Nov 5, 2021

@RandomOTP @Noumero
So was just discussing this in discord, but we were joking around until I realized that Orochimaru might not exactly have cared or noticed that Isan is gold-mine for researcher such as himself. The entire village is like a lab filled with a giant control group. I was thinking that since Takahashi has a monopoly on medical jutsu coming in we could convince Orochimaru to pivot his focus there, at least in the immediate to short term. He'd of course, have to move delicately to not risk screwing over the alliance.

I'm thinking some medical tricks and jutsu to solidify Takahashi's rule in exchange for being able to collect data on the Isanites and the possibility of introducing the Final Gift Program .Takahashi could offer up outcasts as the group most willing to volunteer themselves into it. Takahashi could sell it as a posthumous honor or redemption.

Tsunade could even be prodded to send some staff along with Orochimaru in case he can't be bothered to actually do the leg work. Bonus is that it would probably slow him down. Good for Hazo and Kei, and Im sure Tsunade would be interested in the data her people could gleam from Isan as well.

I was thinking of pitching this to Asuma, Tsunade, and Kabuto to sell to Oro. Get all of them on board. Plus, Takahashi will owe us (or Kei?) for doing him this favor. Point being is that we could kick the can towards vivisection while we offer some other folks onto it instead.

Thoughts?

Kiba · Nov 5, 2021

I don't think Takashi is likely to accept the Final Gift program.

Orisha91 · Nov 5, 2021

Kiba said:
I don't think Takashi is likely to accept the Final Gift program.

How come? It would prop up his personal strength.
And he could just pawn it off on the outcasts.

faflec · Nov 5, 2021

Orisha91 said:
How come? It would prop up his personal strength.
And he could just pawn it off on the outcasts.

I question Takahashi's willingness to murder his own people, even if the outcasts would be the sacrifices in such a scenario.

Takahashi ran against the High Priest's plotting, and he was the guy making a point of shunning the outcasts.

Shrooms · Nov 5, 2021

@RandomOTP I will vote for you if you add the gambling reference from my plan back to the Tsunade section

~~Remember, this is an EJ update and he loves BAMF speeches~~

Orisha91 · Nov 5, 2021

faflec said:
I question Takahashi's willingness to murder his own people, even if the outcasts would be the sacrifices in such a scenario.

Takahashi ran against the High Priest's plotting, and he was the guy making a point of shunning the outcasts.

I was thinking of it as a voluntary noble sacrifice rather than murder. Especially coming from a summoner. Should be palatable enough if there those who are willing. It couldn't hurt to put the offer on the table. Don't think Oro is dumb enough to screw up the alliance by pushing too hard.

faflec · Nov 5, 2021

Orisha91 said:
I was thinking of it as a voluntary noble sacrifice rather than murder. Especially coming from a summoner. Should be palatable enough if there those who are willing. It couldn't hurt to put the offer on the table. Don't think Oro is dumb enough to screw up the alliance by pushing too hard.

Ami described the Final Gift Programme as a voluntary noble sacrifice as well, but Hazou still saw it for what it was: institutionalized blood money. And unlike Leaf, Isan doesn't have to constantly worry about the SSSSS abducting their people without fear of consequences due to being too powerful, since...well, they aren't.

I greatly mislike making the suggestion, either to those we'd optimize the plan with (they will be horrified at us suggesting we give Orochimaru more people to experiment on; Akane, Kei, and Yuno especially) or to Asuma (who will mislike the waste of otherwise fully-functional ~~meatshields~~soldiers to sate Orochimaru's hunger when there is a perfectly good crop of Cloud-nin he can harvest). Orochimaru, on the other hand, would absolutely like the idea of additional research material, doesn't care enough about Leaf/the alliance to not attempt to secure said material, and can easily pawn off the blame on us making the suggestion.

RandomOTP · Nov 5, 2021

Should be back at my apartment in 2.5-3hrs, will be makeing changes then. Haven't read all the requests/pings yet, but I will once I get back. May or may not implement every request into the action plan. Stay awake to give feedback/input if you'd like. See y'all in a bit!

RandomOTP · Nov 5, 2021

Pardon the double post, but @eaglejarl, are there any questions/comments/concerns/clarifications you have/would like as a QM, regarding my action plan? I know you prefer not to give any insider information, but I'd like to try to clarify any possible confusion before voting's close.

Dictator4Hire · Nov 5, 2021

Inferno Vulpix said:
The rationale behind the other plan is quite simple: if he gets what he wants, he doesn't want it anymore.

If you give a mouse a cookie...

If we let Hitler have Czechoslovakia...

If we let Oro have one little exploratory surgery...

We have to draw a line in the sand somewhere. Preserving our bloodline secrets is a fight we can count on having Hyuuga and more clans' support in, not just our normal political allies.

Appeasement is never the long term solution. Instead we should advise Asuma to put Oro under effectively house arrest with the polite fiction of having Oro ascertain as many secrets from Rock and Cloud ninja bodies as possible. Oro spoke out of turn when he said he didn't want to give up his experiments for the good of Leaf, so Asuma can use that as an excuse to get and keep Oro contained, occupied, and ultimately away from us.

It won't work indefinitely but it will gain us the necessary breathing room to start working on Snake Slaying or Subverting countermeasures.

Orisha91 · Nov 5, 2021

faflec said:
Ami described the Final Gift Programme as a voluntary noble sacrifice as well, but Hazou still saw it for what it was: institutionalized blood money. And unlike Leaf, Isan doesn't have to constantly worry about the SSSSS abducting their people without fear of consequences due to being too powerful, since...well, they aren't.

I greatly mislike making the suggestion, either to those we'd optimize the plan with (they will be horrified at us suggesting we give Orochimaru more people to experiment on; Akane, Kei, and Yuno especially) or to Asuma (who will mislike the waste of otherwise fully-functional ~~meatshields~~soldiers to sate Orochimaru's hunger when there is a perfectly good crop of Cloud-nin he can harvest). Orochimaru, on the other hand, would absolutely like the idea of additional research material, doesn't care enough about Leaf/the alliance to not attempt to secure said material, and can easily pawn off the blame on us making the suggestion.

Hm, I'd be pleasantly surprised if Oro didn't realize the gift Hazo and Kei gave him, especially if Arikada and the SSSSS doesn't inform him...

What if we flipped it instead? Maybe Hazo comes to the horrible realization of settting Oro on Isan.

Instead of advocating for the Final Gift Program, we ask Tsunade to send some folks alongside Orochimaru as a safety net/interference and to gather precious medical info as non-invasively as possible (for Isan's benefit, of course). They can share some med jutsu with Taka for the sign off while making sure Oro doesnt dirty his hands with the ignorant bumbkins. Tsunade should be a little more accommodating to us here, if only to setup a more benign alternative.

As far Oro will be aware, Tsunade will be boosting Isan's efforts and infrastructure to actually prosecute a war as a proper ally. And Hazo will be the moral one for proposing it.

Unaligned Player · Nov 5, 2021

Dictator4Hire said:
Instead we should advise Asuma to put Oro under effectively house arrest with the polite fiction of having Oro ascertain as many secrets from Rock and Cloud ninja bodies as possible. Oro spoke out of turn when he said he didn't want to give up his experiments for the good of Leaf, so Asuma can use that as an excuse to get and keep Oro contained, occupied, and ultimately away from us.

Problem: It's Orochimaru he would be attempting to enforce this on.

eaglejarl · Nov 5, 2021

Adhoc vote count started by eaglejarl on Nov 5, 2021 at 8:43 PM, finished with 250 posts and 16 votes.

Posts

20
6 people have voted
[x] Action Plan: Pretty Damn Far
6 people have voted
[x] Action Plan: Game-Theoretically Shaped Explosives
- Noumero
- Oneiros
- Eisenhelm
- Cariyaga
- Emstar
- Black King
3 people have voted
[x] Action Plan: we don't have to be dissected if there is someone to do it for us.
3 people have voted
[X] Action plan: Make like a tree
1 people have voted
[X] Going the Distance
- Shrooms
1 people have voted
[X] Action Plan: One Final List
- Lord Marshal
1 people have voted
[X] Action Plan: Surely We Needed More Moving Pieces
- Emstar

Voting is open until tomorrow at 1pm New York time.

Dictator4Hire · Nov 5, 2021

Unaligned Player said:
Problem: It's Orochimaru he would be attempting to enforce this on.

If Oro is flouting* direct orders from the Hokage during a world war in front of Tsunade and Naruto at the war council we and Leaf are already screwed and no amount of voluntary surgeries will save us in the end. Asuma noted we need Naruto and Tsunade's support to keep Oro off our backs so having everyone present when the orders for the war effort are given out is our best opportunity to use social pressure against Oro.

EDIT: better word

eaglejarl · Nov 5, 2021

RandomOTP said:
[x] Action Plan: Pretty Damn Far
Word Count: 369

[*]Refuse to Lose Family
[*]Potential lie: Leaf thinks Snowflake is a long-term Nara social experiment. Doubledown. Claim Snowflake's an experiment regarding directed personality drift, and Mari wasn't informed. Controlling Variables. Rumor mill knows Kei and Mari aren't friendly.

[*]Fake/backdate paperwork accordingly

I'm not sure what this is saying. It's a Nara experiment in what? For what?

RandomOTP said:
[*]We will (conditionally) volunteer for live vivisection.

We must live, no permanent injury.

Occurs at Hospital.

Orochimaru allows Tsunade and Naruto to attend.

Tsunade/Naruto commit to immediately destroy our body if we die, destroying data.

Orochimaru shares data with Hazou, but no other clans.

Shares the data extracted from the operation, right?

RandomOTP said:
[*]In return, we will...

Advocate the procedure.

Advocate it with whom?

RandomOTP said:
[*]Ami, in private

We made an agreement with The Ami, unity towards Kei's survival.

Five Clans know things. Here be dragons? Fine, here be dragons. If Kei lives, then we'll gladly endure the Consequences.

I have no idea what this means, sorry.

Noumero said:
[x] Action Plan: Game-Theoretically Shaped Explosives
[snip]

Without commenting on the likelihood that this will work, I have no questions.

roobee said:
Tsunade/naruto covering [Kei's] mouth

Don't forget Kei's haptophobia.

Ishtar · Nov 5, 2021

[x] Action Plan: Pretty Damn Far

eaglejarl · Nov 5, 2021

Dictator4Hire said:
If Oro is flaunting direct orders from the Hokage

Pet peeve:
"flaunting" : To proudly display or point out a possession, ability, or attribute.
"flouting" : To disregard a rule or regulation.

Sorry for being a noodge. (Although don't get me started on breath/breathe, sheath/sheathe, lose/loose. Mostly it's breath/breathe. The others I can generally tolerate. Oh, and people need to stop using "decimate" (i.e. "destroy 10% of") for "devastate" (destroy a supermajority of)! Ffs, people, the 'deci-' is right there in the front of the word! Learn your basic SI prefixes! What do you think--

...Sorry. I am calm now. No need to give me that look.)

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

The Shining One

Agony that desires to meet Extinction