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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Kurkistan said:
In the spirit of more loosey-goosey plans:

[X] Action Plan: This is all fine
Word count: 141

Goals: Care for Mari, resolve Uchiha deal. Also money and actually arranging for Asuma to get that hat.

Critical: Network with rest of team about Mari's off-ness, possibly stage intervention/conversation with her.

Critical: Discuss Uchiha offer with clan
-Hazou's stance is acceptance, barring some caveats about consent/health of women, treatment of children, visitation rights.

Critical: Arrange ice contracts with Hot Springs resort owners, salt operations. MONEY.

Do as much as possible:

Research laws on land ownership
-Could delegate

Talk to Ino, Shikamaru, Chōza. Sympathize about losses, make sure they're on board with Asuma as Hokage. Coordinate on making that happen.

Talk to Asuma to coordinate Hokage strategies.

Reach out to Team Nakano & Jinno about hiring them on as retainers
-Could delegate

Plan with clan about how and when to get Summoning Scrolls. Do as much as possible on that.
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Just to check: @Velorien , are you okay with this kind of plan?

Raxner said:
@eaglejarl , @Velorien , @OliWhail

Supposing that an Uchiha civilian married a clanless ninja--would the babies have ninja potential? And would they be part of Clan Uchiha?
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Anyone who is the child of a ninja has a chance to be born with the capability of becoming a ninja.

HDK for sure, although his best guess is that anyone who marries a clan member becomes a member of the clan.


EDIT: It's over 6000!
 
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eaglejarl said:
Just to check: @Velorien , are you okay with this kind of plan?


Anyone who is the child of a ninja has a chance to be born with the capability of becoming a ninja.

HDK for sure, although his best guess is that anyone who marries a clan member becomes a member of the clan.


EDIT: It's over 6000!
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Thank you.

What's over 6000?
 
firestorm440 said:
Your characterization of the deal as it currently stands is extremely unfair. We don't have any reason to believe Mari is lying about the substantive issues, and she knows very well that 1) Hazo cares about these things, and 2) Hazo will take action to independently verify these things. Even if her current state is such that she doesn't care about 1, it will be much harder for her to bypass 2.
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We have a reason to believe that Mari is doing what she thinks is best for the Clan. But I don't believe she knows better and that she's in fucked up state of mind right now. We don't know what exactly is happening, but we can see that it intensifies. Also, to me she looks like she's on drugs or drunk during last update.

So, we have her view of the deal that she May be some what attached to, since this is her work piece, she clearly put some effort in it. Does it make her opinion any more true?

It doesn't

Byzantine279 said:
...I've already said it, so I'll say it again: Nonsense. The Uchiha do not have the capacity to do this even if they had the willingness and will not for at least a decade, probably two.
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Can you pass me the password to QM docs? I seem to misplace mine. Otherwise I would be as sure as you are about things that were never confirmed in story and are a crude assumption at best.
 
TarzanNn said:
We have a reason to believe that Mari is doing what she thinks is best for the Clan. But I don't believe she knows better and that she's in fucked up state of mind right now. We don't know what exactly is happening, but we can see that it intensifies. Also, to me she looks like she's on drugs or drunk during last update.

So, we have her view of the deal that she May be some what attached to, since this is her work piece, she clearly put some effort in it. Does it make her opinion any more true?

It doesn't



Can you pass me the password to QM docs? I seem to misplace mine. Otherwise I would be as sure as you are about things that were never confirmed in story and are a crude assumption at best.
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You're the one that made the positive claim that they are capable of it. The default assumption is that people are not capable of perfect brainwashing genjutsu; it's not on them to establish that the Uchiha cannot due this.
 
Doesn't a clan need to have ninja in it to be a clan? Why don't we just hire one of the Akatsuki to murder Sasuke?

But WHO could we hire to massacre an Uchiha????
 
QTesseract said:
You're the one that made the positive claim that they are capable of it. The default assumption is that people are not capable of perfect brainwashing genjutsu; it's not on them to establish that the Uchiha cannot due this.
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Yeah the difference is that I didn't frame my post as common knowledge. I do agree that both of our POVs are assumption, though.

Oh, and by the way, if they would indeed be capable of brainwashing the world would probably look the same to us. Well, as long as they don't over-do it
 
TarzanNn said:
Yeah the difference is that I didn't frame my post as common knowledge. I do agree that both of our POVs are assumption, though.

Oh, and by the way, if they would indeed be capable of brainwashing the world would probably look the same to us. Well, as long as they don't over-do it
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No, that's still not how this works. You don't get to make your worldview equal to the null hypotheses just because neither is proven.
 
JASHIN-TAP DANCING-SAMA

THE MADMEN ACTUALLY DID IT!

QM's (@eaglejarl , @Velorien , @OliWhail ) I appreciate all your dedication to making this quest as simulationist as possible for medieval times.

Now instead of:

"Do you want to build a harem?~"

It might just be:

"Do you want to buy a harem?~"
 
MadScientist said:
I have a potential solution to the bloodline problem.

All Gouketsu-Sharingan and Uchiha-IN children are considered dual-clan. They spend equal time in each clan before graduation and have access to both clans' secrets (making those children extremely powerful, which is in the Uchiha's interests as well as ours). They're in both chains of command and can't share secrets, but the primary chain of command is down to the child's decision upon graduation.
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So partial clan merger, rather than total? Interesting. Put up a plan, let's see how many votes it gets.
 
KaGoGoGadgetMe said:
Doesn't a clan need to have ninja in it to be a clan? Why don't we just hire one of the Akatsuki to murder Sasuke?
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You're not serious, are you? Just in case you are, here are a few reasons offhand.
  1. Sasuke's not our enemy. He offered a deal that a bunch of us don't like, but he's not our enemy.
  2. If we try to kill Sasuke, Naruto will be done with us at best. More likely, he'll kill us.
  3. If Leaf finds out that we did such a thing, getting thrown in a killbox is the absolute best possible outcome.
  4. Even if we somehow avoid the killbox, all credibility for Plan Uplift is gone forever.
  5. Even if we were in a position to throw Akatsuki at someone (but see point 3 above), it wouldn't be Sasuke; it'd be Hiashi.
  6. There are surely much more amusing ways to make the story scream TILT. For example, we could all run around in green spandex screaming about YOUTH!!!
 
I mean we can definitely subvert the Uchiha clan. We have more military, political and economic power than them. In 3 years they will effectively be a branch of Gōketsu
 
KaGoGoGadgetMe said:
Doesn't a clan need to have ninja in it to be a clan? Why don't we just hire one of the Akatsuki to murder Sasuke?

But WHO could we hire to massacre an Uchiha????
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That was my first idea, but @eaglejarl than said that Sasuke is not the only ninja in the Clan, which made me very confused.

QTesseract said:
No, that's still not how this works. You don't get to make your worldview equal to the null hypotheses just because neither is proven.
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Why would a null hypothesis be that Uchiha is not capable of brainwashing someone. We know their eyes give them bonuses to genjutsu and we had a glimpse of few Mari's techniques which were really impressive. Ffs Mari has stopped hearts of several people with genjutsu alone.

Sure, brainwashing would be either a very chakra-demanding techniques if they are actually trying to rewrite someone's mind, or a very subtle one that would probably required multiple sessions to change something significant, but chances are high that such jutsu exist, probably in few variants.
 
TarzanNn said:
We have a reason to believe that Mari is doing what she thinks is best for the Clan. But I don't believe she knows better and that she's in fucked up state of mind right now. We don't know what exactly is happening, but we can see that it intensifies. Also, to me she looks like she's on drugs or drunk during last update.

So, we have her view of the deal that she May be some what attached to, since this is her work piece, she clearly put some effort in it. Does it make her opinion any more true?

It doesn't



Can you pass me the password to QM docs? I seem to misplace mine. Otherwise I would be as sure as you are about things that were never confirmed in story and are a crude assumption at best.
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Yeah, buddy, quit it with the spoilers snark.

I don't know what Mari is thinking, and frankly, neither us nor Hazo are responsible for what she's thinking. The fact is that she has told us the girls will be consenting, she has not yet actually DONE anything against our interests, her "Heartbreaker" persona particularly is HIGHLY unlikely to lie to her DIRECT MILITARY SUPERIOR, and she KNOWS that we will check independently because that's how Hazo rolls on things he cares about, and thus has no incentive to lie, because maybe her Deceit check can beat ours, but the girls' Deceit checks sure as fuck can't.
 
TarzanNn said:
That was my first idea, but @eaglejarl than said that Sasuke is not the only ninja in the Clan, which made me very confused.



Why would a null hypothesis be that Uchiha is not capable of brainwashing someone. We know their eyes give them bonuses to genjutsu and we had a glimpse of few Mari's techniques which were really impressive. Ffs Mari has stopped hearts of several people with genjutsu alone.

Sure, brainwashing would be either a very chakra-demanding techniques if they are actually trying to rewrite someone's mind, or a very subtle one that would probably required multiple sessions to change something significant, but chances are high that such jutsu exist, probably in few variants.
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The bull hypothesis is that the uchiha cannot mind Control genjutsu. The reason this is:
1. This is a normal null hypothesis. This is all that is needed; everything else is just bonus. The default assumption is that most people cannot due this (including most genjutsu users, which we know thanks to Mari).
2. They couldn't in canon. Only Shisui had that as a unique mangekyo Power, and canon shisui had too long a recharge to do it on this many kids anyway.
3. All of their adultninja are dead. You Sasuke the ones that might have taught sasuke this completely op Genjutsu that's probably way to valuable to commit to scrolls when you can teach using the Sharingan? At best, this would be an argument for Itachi having that kind of genjutsu, not the uchiha clan.
4. If they had a jonin genjutsu specialist with the Sharingan who was good enough to caste this, they'd be putting them forth as a Hokage candidate. Also, they probably would have gone to Nagi island and gotten killed by itachi.
 
Oneiros said:
I mean we can definitely subvert the Uchiha clan. We have more military, political and economic power than them. In 3 years they will effectively be a branch of Gōketsu
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And the entire Uchiha clan also had all of those things before Itachi massacred them.

Never count out any clan of cheating haxor eyes. If they produced one Itachi they could do it again even if it's an accident.

...Could we amend the deal so that we have the right to be the sensei of any new prodigies they spawn? Instilling Uplift ideals in Itachi 2.0 would certainly help put my mind at ease.
 
firestorm440 said:
Yeah, buddy, quit it with the spoilers snark.

I don't know what Mari is thinking, and frankly, neither us nor Hazo are responsible for what she's thinking. The fact is that she has told us the girls will be consenting, she has not yet actually DONE anything against our interests, her "Heartbreaker" persona particularly is HIGHLY unlikely to lie to her DIRECT MILITARY SUPERIOR, and she KNOWS that we will check independently because that's how Hazo rolls on things he cares about, and thus has no incentive to lie, because maybe her Deceit check can beat ours, but the girls' Deceit checks sure as fuck can't.
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Hey, that was my first spoiler snark in my whole life! Cut me some slack, geez.

I update my probability of her not lying because of your post, but I do want to point out that she socially attacked Keiko, when she started threatening the Clan. Other point are valid, though.
 
It looks like some variant of the plan Mari brought us is going to be accepted. So, if there is some concern that the girls might fake consent out of fear, and do it well enough to fool Hazo, perhaps we could hire a Yamanaka to check? Tell the girls that they don't need to allow the Yamanaka to scan them, but if they don't, we will assume that they do not consent.
 
TarzanNn said:
Hey, that was my first spoiler snark in my whole life! Cut me some slack, geez.

I update my probability of her not lying because of your post, but I do want to point out that she socially attacked Keiko, when she started threatening the Clan. Other point are valid, though.
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Your point that she did socially attack Keiko is also taken as evidence of her general ruthlessness currently. I should, however, point out that she attacked her on what she perceived as Hazo's orders, which I think further demonstrates her willingness to obey Hazo.
 
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