Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Hmm, things to ask Jiraiya... Oh, hell, almost forgot.
I will vote for any plan which includes at least one of the following:
Reasoning:
Summons' History: Both Keiko and Jiraiya likely already investigated this, and if they didn't, it would be relatively easy to fix. I'm interested in how far back the summons' written records go, what they say, what their creation myths include, and what is their general opinion about how the world works. What is chakra? Where do chakra beasts come from? Watchers supposedly exist: do they know anything about that? What it means to summon Death (ask anyone except Pandaa)? It would be hilarious if they knew correct and easy-to-verify answers to one of these questions, but nobody bothered to ask.
On a different note, it's an easy way to check Kagome's conspiracy theories, as he has a very particular idea of where the Seventh Path came from. Not that the summons' account would be trustworthy either — obviously their answers would be filled with propaganda and religious bullshit — but cross-checking both the Toads' and the Pangolins' versions should catch the worst of it.
Also, I think it would be interesting.
Similarly, reading the book about Akatsuki should be a) mildly useful for getting not-entirely-unreliable information about the enemy, b) nearly costless, c) somewhat interesting.
@MMKII, I remember you had a conspiracy to fund an expedition into the Seventh Path's Great Library? I think it's time we start.
I will vote for any plan which includes at least one of the following:
- Asking Jirayia and/or Keiko about the Summon Clans' ancient history, religion, and worldview.
- Tracking down and reading the book about Akatsuki.
Suggested priority for @Jello_Raptor's notation: (3:5).
- Discuss Summons with Keiko and/or Jiraiya. Topics:
- Ancient history, religion.
- Beliefs: Chakra/chakra beasts, bijuu, bloodlines...
- Society: population, QoL...
- Specific questions:
- Fear of Mori Voice.
- Ban on "Summoning Death".
- Great Library: do we (Keiko/Jiraiya) have access?
- Get copy of Akatsuki book; read it.
Reasoning:
Summons' History: Both Keiko and Jiraiya likely already investigated this, and if they didn't, it would be relatively easy to fix. I'm interested in how far back the summons' written records go, what they say, what their creation myths include, and what is their general opinion about how the world works. What is chakra? Where do chakra beasts come from? Watchers supposedly exist: do they know anything about that? What it means to summon Death (ask anyone except Pandaa)? It would be hilarious if they knew correct and easy-to-verify answers to one of these questions, but nobody bothered to ask.
On a different note, it's an easy way to check Kagome's conspiracy theories, as he has a very particular idea of where the Seventh Path came from. Not that the summons' account would be trustworthy either — obviously their answers would be filled with propaganda and religious bullshit — but cross-checking both the Toads' and the Pangolins' versions should catch the worst of it.
Also, I think it would be interesting.
Similarly, reading the book about Akatsuki should be a) mildly useful for getting not-entirely-unreliable information about the enemy, b) nearly costless, c) somewhat interesting.
@MMKII, I remember you had a conspiracy to fund an expedition into the Seventh Path's Great Library? I think it's time we start.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I would like to give Mari a bit of a break.
Is there any fundamental problem with us doing it in a day or two as opposed to right now? We are at the limit of the word count for bonus XP (real bonus XP) and I'm not tryna fuck with that.
Likewise, it has been less than 24 hours IC in which we just talked to Keiko about the Pangolins and Pangolin related things, told her that we should talk to J about it in the hopes of it being fixed, only for him to point out that its the least of our problems.
I would like to give the Pangolin summoner a rest on the Pangolin front for a bit.
Likewise, Jiraiya had no less than 2 mildly stressful conversations with the clan last update. We are pushing for what could be a third in as many as 24 hours.
I'm not trying to pull excuses out of my hat here, but I would rather not piss either of them off.
You're asking the next QM to do another spoonful of worldbuilding after the latest chapter.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
But it's not that stressful? What could be more relaxing, even, than taking a deep dive into the functionings of a society of genocidal aliens? But fair enough.
I can condense it significantly, without changing the meaning or, ah, perverting it. Stand by.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail
On... another note...
I am happy with the XP system overall. However, there is one point at which it... doesn't make much sense to me in the context of the world and how gains in skill function: Chakra Capacity.
As far as I understand it (and I could be wrong here!), you train chakra capacity by running yourself near-empty on chakra and letting yourself refill, repeatedly. Alright, cool. Makes enough sense.
The problem comes in the realization that... there's nothing really stopping you from training chakra capacity at the same time as other things. Or just at the end of the day, burning through the rest of your chakra before you go to sleep.
This is especially true with ninjutsu specialists: They can only cast their techniques so many times per day, and the process of doing so, in itself, serves to assist in Chakra Capacity training.
If this seems to you guys to be a problem as it does to me, I have a suggestion: Ninja in general get some % of their total lifetime XP as bonus XP to be spent on Chakra Capacity. This may be "cut into" at a 1 normal XP:2 CCXP ratio, as Hazou would have done to have such a low chakra capacity (explain it as him spending time sealing where lack of focus due to low chakra is a Bad Idea), and additional XP may be spent on it -- and probably will be, by most ninja -- representing focused effort toward it.
Percent suggestions:
5% total XP would put:
10% total XP would put:
e: It was pointed out to me, and I agree, that much of this may not apply to some of our time spent as a missing-nin (ie pre-Kagome). Hard to feel secure enough to train chakra capacity on the daily as a missing-nin.
On... another note...
I am happy with the XP system overall. However, there is one point at which it... doesn't make much sense to me in the context of the world and how gains in skill function: Chakra Capacity.
As far as I understand it (and I could be wrong here!), you train chakra capacity by running yourself near-empty on chakra and letting yourself refill, repeatedly. Alright, cool. Makes enough sense.
The problem comes in the realization that... there's nothing really stopping you from training chakra capacity at the same time as other things. Or just at the end of the day, burning through the rest of your chakra before you go to sleep.
This is especially true with ninjutsu specialists: They can only cast their techniques so many times per day, and the process of doing so, in itself, serves to assist in Chakra Capacity training.
If this seems to you guys to be a problem as it does to me, I have a suggestion: Ninja in general get some % of their total lifetime XP as bonus XP to be spent on Chakra Capacity. This may be "cut into" at a 1 normal XP:2 CCXP ratio, as Hazou would have done to have such a low chakra capacity (explain it as him spending time sealing where lack of focus due to low chakra is a Bad Idea), and additional XP may be spent on it -- and probably will be, by most ninja -- representing focused effort toward it.
Percent suggestions:
5% total XP would put:
- Keiko at 16 CC
- Hazou at 15 CC
- Noburi at 15 CC
10% total XP would put:
- Keiko at 21 base CC
- Hazou at 20 base CC
- Probably cut that back to at least 14 CC to represent his seal specialty, as mentioned above
- Noburi at 20 base CC
- Maybe Wakahisa would get half effectiveness from this XP, putting him at exactly where he is right now, 10?
e: It was pointed out to me, and I agree, that much of this may not apply to some of our time spent as a missing-nin (ie pre-Kagome). Hard to feel secure enough to train chakra capacity on the daily as a missing-nin.
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So obviously this isn't true at all or everybody would be walking around with swole chakra capacity.
Most likely to me "near-empty" means exhausting yourself to such a degree that it actually interferes with other activities requiring mental and physical exertion. You go near-empty to the degree necessary, and you don't have energy to do anything but lie there until you recover somewhat. Even mental activity is harder. The more times you do that per day, the less time you have for anything else. Doing it at the end of the day is possible but just doesn't help much.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
This seems sensible. For a village nin.
Going forward it would be sensible IMO for a 5% rule to apply to CR. But I don't think this is a thing you can do as missing nin (too dangerous) or while out in the field. So 5% of total XP seems quasi-reasonable to me going forward. I would go for less depending on the situation but at that point there isn't any reason to keep track. Eh, I mean its sort of fine as is. If we keep the +1 for short plans Bonus XP, this more than accounts for any chakra reserves stuff that shoulda been going on.
I don't particularly have much of a beef with this in particular. Literally the only thing that seems odd to me about the XP and/or Skills system is that Technique Hacking is doublecost. I would think it would be singlecost and rely on whatever stat the technique is associated to (Taijutsu, Water ninjutsu, Genjutsu) to be the primary gatekeeper on growth there. Ex: If you wanted OP Taijutsu Hadouken, you better hope your Taijutsu and TH skills are both >=60 (or something like that).
Then again, we don't have the mechanics for that so I may be too hasty there. Oh well.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Um. The numbers I proposed for % Total XP are in line with the current numbers for the party and for Chuunin in general. I have no idea where you're getting the idea that everybody would be walking around with swole chakra capacity.
So... no.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
While I sympathize with the potential disconnect between 'using chakra increases your chakra reserves' and 'you have to spend XP to increase chakra'... let's not make this more complex than it needs to be. It's only in edge cases like a ninja who refuses to put XP into chakra or short timeframes where you might find that disconnect, for all other ninja and all other timeframes you will still see ninjas growing their chakra reserves, if some faster than others.
- Location
- US
I've just always assumed that Chakra Training XP from doing what you mention is jammed into the same general pool as, say, punching a tree over and over again. We can get better at socials by punching a tree, and we can get higher Chakra Capacity by sweet-talking Ami.
That village nin are more likely to do this (go to low CP before bedtime), well within the safety of friendly village walls, is one of many reasons why one can argue that their relative XP Gain is approximately on par with missing nin survivalists.
That village nin are more likely to do this (go to low CP before bedtime), well within the safety of friendly village walls, is one of many reasons why one can argue that their relative XP Gain is approximately on par with missing nin survivalists.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Eh. Once Kagome was around, it was more than reasonable to train chakra capacity for the kiddos. A jounin and a highly-capable sealmaster seem more than capable of keeping them safe from chakra beasts.
I honestly have no idea how Noburi trains chakra capacity, though. Maybe it's something like pushing his limits of chakra he can hold? If that's the case, then it's even less of a concern for Noburi and Keiko while missing-nin.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Done. Review, @MMKII?
The only intended functional difference is in the line about creative training: since Hazou doesn't know about Ami at all, we're referring to her only to let QMs know what we're talking about.
After dinner:
- Ask Noburi for advice on dealing with girls, and other complex social situations.
- Explain the problem with Akane, and how it was solved.
- It's nice how a simple assurance that "they'll always be friends" fixed it.
- Meet Ebisu. Train, get some jutsu.
- Trade Idea: Caravan Scroll Proposal.
- Ninja convoys equipped with large amounts of storage scrolls would be able to transport trade goods overland, very quickly and in large amounts.
- Do they exist already?
- Their capacity could be increased further if our clan developed larger storage seals.
- Possible uses:
- Improving relations with Merchant Council (if we provide them first opportunities on trades or outfit them with larger storage seals).
- Mitigating/solving trade issues Jiraiya mentioned yesterday.
- Ninja convoys equipped with large amounts of storage scrolls would be able to transport trade goods overland, very quickly and in large amounts.
- Anything we personally could do about clan heads' votes?
- Tsunade can take up the mantle of the Senju clan head and leverage support for Jiraiya's reign.
- In exchange, you could commit some resources on areas she prefers (medical, research...). It's potentially a great short-term gain in exchange for a long-term inconvenience.
- Can Hazou melt her heart with his painful sincerity? Can Noburi inspire her?
- Sasuke:
- Is he the Uchiha Clan Head?
- Any way we can secure his vote? Play off the Hyuga/Uchiha rivalry?
- Tsunade can take up the mantle of the Senju clan head and leverage support for Jiraiya's reign.
- Unrelated:
- Ask Jiraiya (master of the romantic arts!) for advice on Akane.
- Approach as done with Noburi (see above).
- Ask Jiraiya (master of the romantic arts!) for advice on Akane.
- Hazou spends any free time refilling seal loadouts as per this list.
- Hazou, Kagome, and Jiraiya do more Casino Seal research.
- Propose creative training [For QMs: Ami-style].
- (OPSEC-sensitive) Ask Noburi if he would be willing to refill Jiraiya's chakra to maximize his SC usage.
The only intended functional difference is in the line about creative training: since Hazou doesn't know about Ami at all, we're referring to her only to let QMs know what we're talking about.
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I can throw in "Ask Jiraiya about the 7th path Library" and do basically what you suggested. I can also request that we get a copy of Leaf's bingo book in the near future (as Jiraiya's kids, we are obviously high priority targets and may need intel on such threats).
Sound good?
Those will be offscreened?
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
We can put the seventh path discussion into the Jiraiya talk assuming its in the context of "We would like to check out the great library at some point in the future to see what info could be there."
The bingo book can be off screened.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Sure. Perhaps add getting the Akatsuki book too, though.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Why is there a book on them and what usefulness does this serve beyond the bingo book?
To understand Akatsuki's motivation?
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Obviously.
But why would such information be in a book, and why is it lying around where we can access it?
Edit: Like I'm not opposed to this if theres a reason something like this exists. But I dont want to devote time to asking for ... some "Book of Minor Plot Details" or something, yknow? All that would accomplish is make Hazou feel foolish
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
It was explicitly stated that Akatsuki made a manifesto and spread it around.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
- Location
- Yes.
Kagome told us when giving us the Akatsuki info dump.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
No. Kagome:
Not reliable, but interesting and potentially useful information nonetheless.
- Location
- floating away
