- Location
- Yes.
Raise your hand if you didn't see that coming.
Then please go find the local Mad-Eye Simulator and inform the front desk that you aren't paranoid enough.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Then please go find the local Mad-Eye Simulator and inform the front desk that you aren't paranoid enough.
Dissonance
Luna's Luna
- Location
- Ginnungagap.
- Pronouns
- S/H/T
Hnnnnnnnnng
Ordering like this makes me feel [redacted for lewdity].
[X] (lethal) Yes
[X] (speech) Yes
Today's thread is great
MMMMMMmmmmmnnnggg....
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
To be clear, that is my vote, and I believe I have good reasons. I haven't read the discussion, but I will read and respond once I get off work in a few hours.
Tua
鸡肉面条汤
- Location
- شوربة الدجاج المعكرونة
About as stupid as someone who throws an explosive above a huddled crowd that includes civilians just because s/he thought they could get away it.
Or about as stupid as someone who panics and contributes to the stampede instead of disengaging immediately, be that because they literally did not think about it or thought that points matters more than preventing serious injury to themselves or others.
(And we have no evidence that these people aren't still there because the elimination process after that event did not filter by that criteria.)
Look, we got burnt by this before. We literally underestimated the stupidity of people back then so it is hardly surprising we actually want to learn from said mistake and eliminate even the possibility of this happening again because someone was too stupid/overconfident.
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- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
- Location
- Elsewhere
Hi, just popping in to let you all know that Zabuza is dead.
The Japanese Voice Actor Unshō Ishizuka Who Portrayed Professor Oak From 'Pokémon' Has Died
Unshō Ishizuka - Wikipedia
The Japanese Voice Actor Unshō Ishizuka Who Portrayed Professor Oak From 'Pokémon' Has Died
Unshō Ishizuka - Wikipedia
A moment of silence, please.
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- Location
- Yes.
That's what Zabuza wants you to think.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
If I ammend the above to "It is not a priori obvious to me why something going wrong (intentionally by a choice of some fool genin or through some unlucky circumstances conjured forth by the chaos of the battlefield) with this lethal trapfield has a negligible probability." would that satisfy you? This captures the intent of my statement and objection reasonably well without devolving into word games, and avoids me stating this in a way that it can be construed as me stating an absolute.
I will make no demands of @Vecht to prove or disprove the above. I will clarify my earlier objection to his argument to the contrary on the previous statement to be closer in meaning to
"I do not see this as ironclad as you are implicitly using an assumption that I consider spurious, as I do not believe all actors present will act intelligently or otherwise not act irrationally given such a scenario as we have at present, nor does this preclude some unforeseen scenario occuring in which they are put in the trap minefield not of their own volition. Thus, this does not alleviate my concerns."
Everyone happy?
Edit: I will further apologize for any debate sins (intentional or otherwise) that I committed.
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Vecht
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- Snarksville, Snarkland
Not even slightly. I'm far more frustrated that apparently any disagreement is enough for people to believe I'm frustrated and somehow compromised as a result. That's just plain insulting!
(That was sarcasm. My frustration level is still hovering at zero.)
Was intended to be more of a humorous jab. Write a proof? I'm certain @MMKII did not intend for me to attempt to write up an airtight logical argument which derives the conclusion directly and inexorably from first principles. Still, that's pushing the bounds of what's reasonable to ask of someone in a discussion when claiming the sacred virtue of willingness to change your mind, and so I felt the need to push back a little.
@MMKII I apologize if I upset you with my response. It was probably more pointed than it needed to be. Delivery aside, was I wrong to object to being asked to deliver a proof?
You're still entirely wrong about the likelihood of anyone actually going into the traps, but you have convinced me that it would in fact be better for our image if we didn't use lethal traps and still won, and that also that the delta between chance of winning with lethal traps and chance of winning without is small enough that it's worth taking the handicap.
[x] (lethal) No
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Nope, indeed I could have phrased it in a much less awkward way. My apologies.
(No offense was taken at anything by the by. I hope the same was true on your side of the screen)
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Noooooo! Come back to the light, Vecht!
Vecht
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- Snarksville, Snarkland
But like, it actually would be better if we stomp everyone into the ground, and then we can claim we didn't even have to pull out our full arsenal.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[X] (lethal) Yes
[X] (speech) Yes
[X] (speech) Yes
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
You are all a bunch of chickens.
I think that the bribe might be having the opposite effect.
I think that the bribe might be having the opposite effect.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Pfah. Don't try to sweet-talk me with your "sensible arguments" and your "valid points". You are denying me my moment of badassery.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I think most all of us are for the Come At Me Bro speech on the other hand!
- Location
- Yes.
And this is why we need to account for people running into the meat grinder.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
But we are not going to pull out our full arsenal. We are not going lethal on one side. In fact the claim is far more credibile if they can see the lethal on the other sides. Also you can bet that they are going to test it with clones.
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Vecht
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- Snarksville, Snarkland
But how do they know it's not? From the perspective of our opponents, if we use any amount of lethal options at all (much less at minimum a minefield of explosive traps and force walls), then us boasting "we didn't even have to use our full arsenal" rings a little hollow.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Using lethal traps is an exciting option, but it has two failure states: enemies being stupid, and enemies being clever.
The stupid one was already discussed.
The smart one is, "two could play this game". Once we announce our intention to use lethal traps in order to game-theoretically coerce our opposition into attacking us from a particular direction, what would stop our enemies from doing the same? E. g., Hazama could state that he'll be using his Lighting Pillars with lethal force if he sees our team employing Pangolins, some Mist clan could take a page from your book, @Vecht, and precommit to use weapons-grade explosive tags against our fortifications if we don't immediately surrender, similarly warn everyone from genin to Kages about it, et cetera.
All it takes is one copycat, and all contestants will realize that they could do it too.
It'll be very inconvenient, if admittedly extremely entertaining. But we can have no nice things, so...
[X] (lethal) No
[X] (speech) Yes
The stupid one was already discussed.
The smart one is, "two could play this game". Once we announce our intention to use lethal traps in order to game-theoretically coerce our opposition into attacking us from a particular direction, what would stop our enemies from doing the same? E. g., Hazama could state that he'll be using his Lighting Pillars with lethal force if he sees our team employing Pangolins, some Mist clan could take a page from your book, @Vecht, and precommit to use weapons-grade explosive tags against our fortifications if we don't immediately surrender, similarly warn everyone from genin to Kages about it, et cetera.
All it takes is one copycat, and all contestants will realize that they could do it too.
It'll be very inconvenient, if admittedly extremely entertaining. But we can have no nice things, so...
[X] (lethal) No
[X] (speech) Yes