No, solving this problem is literally how we got milling. We tied an... ox? I think it was. Some mason tied an ox to do the milling of the black soil for him in addition to coming up with mill stones for it.
Either way, it's not done by hand now.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Either way, it's not done by hand now.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
*snerk*
Yeah heh I put this out as one of those brilliant scenarios that pepper human history but is completely legendary. Jokes ahoy!
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Aside from AN clarifying already:
I don't remember us getting prestige from the actual hero horde fight, do you have a link to my or your or zamin's analysis from whichever update that was? Mine in particular since it should have a diff checker, if i'd already started doing that by then?
Err...main chariot and main expand warriors both cost 2 wealth and give 1 art, for starters? Here's a quote from my analysis of the action changes, and it seems pretty clear that Currency did a lot of "-2 econ cost becomes -1 econ, -1 wealth" and that BotB separately added "-1 wealth +1 art" to a lot of stuff.
Ah okay, makes sense now
He was just sick and tired of this shit
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
Well, Vegemite is legitimately in wide-"spread" use, it's just something of an acquired taste if you didn't grow up with it. In the same way that Mexico uses a lot of chilli peppers.
ETA Despite the benefits of Vitamin B, I doubt the Ymaryn would be interested in using up so much salt in a single food.
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Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Incidentally, veekie, i went through a bunch of updates starting with the iron update and ending with us driving off the hero horde, and we gained exactly 1 prestige...from the explicit prestige gain from humiliating the Thunder Speakers. Not even our fugue state "fuck the nomads" got us prestige, and we wiped out several tribes to a man during that. Meanwhile, we actually lost prestige during the fight with the nomad horde, when we wiped out 2/3rds of them, but they snuck in to our mainlands and raided us.
All the non-AN quotes should be people who posted the civ sheets for each turn, and they should be in order due to how quoting order works:
Econ 4 -> 2 (+2 +1)
From all the settlements; we'll have 5 econ at the start of next turn
Martial 6 -> 10
As expected
Art 2 -> 3
As expected from dip overflow
Mysticism 2 -> 0 (+2)
From main settlements
DamnI bet they got a bunch of prestige from being the first in the area to hit True City...and apparently while they were licking their wounds they had good enough diplo/art/mysticism to hit golden age...
Hmm...Stability is nice, and i think its hopeless to try and avoid our people believing prophecy... But if there is no comet, what happens? Also, fuck we cant do the mine next turn, or it'll end up "proving" the weapon of the gods trait if the comet does show up...
I think the MW had had something interesting a bit ago? THat might have just been the sacred pots the iron guy stole...
[X] Stockpile resources for the return of the Doom Comet (+1 Stability if over 5 Econ by mid-turn next turn, ???)
[X] Trade mission to the Metal Workers (-1 Diplomacy)
...actually, wait. AN, do actions like expand econ take effect before mid-turn?
Thats the Divine Stewards penalty for failed defense
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
...I'm pretty sure the divine stewards penalty is 1. loss of stability, not prestige and 2. about permanently losing territory, not 'just' having it raided...
Pretty sure that prestige hit was that they had double hero crits and completely outfoxed our military, actually causing a famine (negative econ) by hitting our core land even past our march, not anything specific to us. Like..."the enemy tricks you and sneaks past your entire army and a state set up to defend your core lands, and causes famine by fucking your shit up" sounds like a prestige hit for anyone, not something you need a value to trigger to get a prestige hit out of?
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Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean, while our ideas about how to be prestigious are somewhat different than them, they're not completely different, and our sense of how humiliation works is pretty similar? Like, yeah, we find prestige and honor in being a great craftsperson, or administrator, or farmer, or so on, and in being harmonious and helpful to the group, but "is a military elite" is still among the highest honors. We don't view raiding others as being prestigious or honorable, but we do still consider being considered a coward or being unable to protect yourself, your family, and your goods to be dishonorable to the point that its literally part of our laws that calling someone a coward without cause is enough to half-justify them murdering the shit out of you:
So i think while our neighbors gain prestige differently than we usually do*, they'd go about humiliation in the same way: the king has to send tribute and admit that <insert civ> is way better and more honorable and more favored by the spirits, and maybe the King's special Modified Speaking Stick positional-object-of-authority has to be publicly handed over to the conquering warrior, or the other king's heir or whatnot.
*You know, when we're not murdering most men in random nomadic tribes out of hatred at other tribes, and bringing their chiefs to the king to rub their inferiority and our superiority in their face
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Anyways, who wants to build a pilgrimage trail from ST to Valleyhome by making temples in Valleyhome, Stonepen, and Stallion Tribe?
Obviously a Mathulmyn + the farm goddess combo for valleyhome, and then either Stonepen or the Stallion Tribe gets either Manus-Domaine or the twins.
Putting the twins in ST implies the unity of all peoples and the ST themselves, because we all come from that one pair, while putting Manus-Domaine in the ST gives them the satisfaction of being labeled the bringers of justice, and also serves to reduce foolishness among their population, ideally leading to wiser warriors.
Putting the twins in Stonepen signifies the first group outside the original three that we befriended/assimilated, and emphasizes a North-South dichotomy; putting Manus-Domaine in Stonepen sort of symbolically puts a barrier to foolishness between the north and south and also matches the general stoic, dour nature that the "stone" in Stonepen implies.
If we don't want to do the pilgrimage trail, Blackmouth definitely needs to be the next place after Valleyhome that we build a temple-library combo in. Due to the ease of access that straddling the northern river provides it with, it is the core of the Northcoast, ST, and WW region.
Obviously a Mathulmyn + the farm goddess combo for valleyhome, and then either Stonepen or the Stallion Tribe gets either Manus-Domaine or the twins.
Putting the twins in ST implies the unity of all peoples and the ST themselves, because we all come from that one pair, while putting Manus-Domaine in the ST gives them the satisfaction of being labeled the bringers of justice, and also serves to reduce foolishness among their population, ideally leading to wiser warriors.
Putting the twins in Stonepen signifies the first group outside the original three that we befriended/assimilated, and emphasizes a North-South dichotomy; putting Manus-Domaine in Stonepen sort of symbolically puts a barrier to foolishness between the north and south and also matches the general stoic, dour nature that the "stone" in Stonepen implies.
If we don't want to do the pilgrimage trail, Blackmouth definitely needs to be the next place after Valleyhome that we build a temple-library combo in. Due to the ease of access that straddling the northern river provides it with, it is the core of the Northcoast, ST, and WW region.
Well, a big part of it seems to be that by our social values, your state had visibly failed to the point where its a national shame.
Still academic, except we probably want to be careful about maxing out the Periphery State slots from now.
- Location
- Australia
We lost stability because of the famine, not because of Divine Stewards. I know this because we hit Econ -1 which drops Stability by 1 but we only lost 1 Stability that turn, so Divine Stewards didn't trigger or else we would've lost 2 Stability.
We didn't lose land. Land was damaged, but it wasn't lost.
We didn't lose land. Land was damaged, but it wasn't lost.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The point of contention was whether the prestige loss that term was specifically because of Divine Stewards triggering (Veekie's position), or if it was a more general prestige loss trigger separate from DS (My position)
Let me just mark that down on the giant list of crap we have to do.
But yes, in theory this sounds like a wonderful idea.
- Location
- Staring into the void
But... but... Grand Palace & Census?
Seriously though, can you imagine how we would be for actions if we only had limited brass like the other nations?
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- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
Are you saying that our people would dare put their shit near a river? Unclean heretic, have at the!
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
The other nations get more actions than us due to their decentralized control. They just can't exercise the same degree of cohesiveness in using those actions.
- Location
- Staring into the void
Exactly. Iron has helped us maintain some action parity, but we need to wonder spam more to make use of our cultural bonuses.
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
Oh, right, misread your earlier comment.
Yeah, without iron we'd be much worse off in all sorts of ways.
Well, we'd still need the actual TRAILS for people to travel to those places. ANd probably to reinforce religious homogeniety across our population rather than having our own temles start culture drifting.
Lets look at what each province has to offer for a Temple:
-Valleyhome
--Rainbow Trail - Still a future necropolis and place of history. Moisture makes it a crappy library, but it's one of the few places in the Core where building a Mountain would enjoy passable visibility. Slightly redundant with Sacred Forest. Too close.
-Redshore
--Holy Sea - Coastal temple, and where a Mountain would be most visually impressive(cheat it into a proto Great Lighthouse?) due to visibility across the sea. Makes a good combo with Grand Docks. Ideal site for a pilgrimage route from the coast before they shift to river.
-Stonepen
--Horse Valley - Hills/Valley/Plains temple. Linked to our horse breeding lineage. Formerly a good location for Place to the Stars, but Star Mirror is probably better now. May be a good location for the Mountain to impress Nomads(though this usually means they want a piece of that). May be a good place to hold The Games, as the terrain is suitable for marathons and horse racing.
-Northshore
--White Circle - No particular significance to this site that I can tell.
--Warrior's Rest - Historical rest station for warriors moving towards the Stallion Tribe front. May be used as a necropolis for the North being in a central position between Northshore and Stonepen. May be a good place to hold The Games, due to proximity to the Stallion Tribes and a good mix of terrain.
-Blackriver
--Star Mirror - This seems a natural springboard for a Place to the Stars, especially with an adjunct library. Should greatly lower the costs of that project. Also a good focal point for the Northwestern coast's religious practices, being accessible from the entire Black River and coast.
-Southshore(Uncertain, Hero turn masked whether it's in Redhill or Southshore, so I made a judgment call based on Redhill being too dry to have 'groves' and hilly terrain being rather poor for great sunrises)
--Sunrise Grove - Good view of the sunrise from here. Place to the Stars?
--Skyforest - Sounds like a plateau with a forest on it.
--Bloodgrove - Trees with red sap?
-Redhill(Uncertain, Hero turn masked whether it's in Redhill or Southshore, so I made a judgment call based on Redhill being dry enough that finding natural wells and pools are a significant occurance)
--Spiritwell - Spoopy cave or natural formations causing howling winds?
--Moonwell - Good view of the sky. Place to the Stars?
As such, for pilgrimage anchors, I'm inclined to plop temples on Holy Sea and Star Mirror as the best locations to anchor our Western pilgrimage route and to ensure cultural continuity in our priesthood.
Wouldn't want the temples to find it too hard to reach each other. That's how you get schisms.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
we have them alrdy, to stonepen and ST and from SF to VH.
SP SF and VH were provinces when we had excellent roads. We/the ST then specifically developed trails, iirc. Though I vaguely recall you arguing that we didn't...
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Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The trails between main settlements, and presumably any other important spots like mines/holy sites/docks/etc seem to be pretty good, its more that, you know, random settlement 25 only has a single outgoing trail, and its not gravel and only marginally groomed and only goes to another slightly less small settlement, not anything important, so its a month+ trip to get to the provincial capital or holy site. But as far as travel and communication between high profile or important places like provincial capitals and the like, it sounds like we've got gravel trails that are kept in good shape.