@Academia Nut

How free is the exchange of ideas in the Ymaryn Empire compared to our rivals?

Does the Government have control over it or is it mostly free as long as you don't actively forment revolution (I assume it's fairly free as we invented those ideas and then used them to set our neighbours on fire) or are there restrictions?

Do any of the civs we know of have something like corporations or whatever is the next step for guilds?

Well, the rub is that a lot of ideas can be considered disruptive to the traditional order in this era. The scholars have a certain degree of 'academic privilege' but even that can be sharply curtailed even in 'neutral' areas like natural philosophy if the king or nobles don't like where some paths might lead if you keep thinking about them. That said, the upper classes are considerably more permissive than in many other places, hence why Liberalism is being worked on, which will open up the possibility of more freedom of thought.

The Sketch and Halvyni both have early corporations at this point, and most major Syffrynite powers have trading or crown companies of some sort. The next step for guilds is either functional annihilation by corporations or being revived as co-ops.
 
> war of the First Coalition
Let's not.

Well, the rub is that a lot of ideas can be considered disruptive to the traditional order in this era. The scholars have a certain degree of 'academic privilege' but even that can be sharply curtailed even in 'neutral' areas like natural philosophy if the king or nobles don't like where some paths might lead if you keep thinking about them. That said, the upper classes are considerably more permissive than in many other places, hence why Liberalism is being worked on, which will open up the possibility of more freedom of thought.

The Sketch and Halvyni both have early corporations at this point, and most major Syffrynite powers have trading or crown companies of some sort. The next step for guilds is either functional annihilation by corporations or being revived as co-ops.

> co-ops



it is time
 
@Academia Nut Couple more quick clarification questions:
  1. Is the cap on IC from Guild Mercantile a hard cap? As in, even if we Develop Industry, we cannot raise it to 4?
  2. Can Temp Consciousness from Support Social Research grant us increased PW regen due to hitting 5 Consciousness?
 
@Academia Nut Couple more quick clarification questions:
  1. Is the cap on IC from Guild Mercantile a hard cap? As in, even if we Develop Industry, we cannot raise it to 4?
  2. Can Temp Consciousness from Support Social Research grant us increased PW regen due to hitting 5 Consciousness?

1. Gonna be honest, your first "mission" will essentially be to break the backs of the guilds in order to allow for the transition to the more industrialized economy that they will be standing in the way of because it threatens their monopolies. You can only raise the cap so much with tech before you need to have factories to exceed it, which will require a new socioeconomic model.
2. It is possible, just remember too that raising Consciousness also hurts Happiness if you aren't devoting resources to maintain Standard of Living, which leads to bad things. Basically what you would be doing would be encouraging academics to talk about liberty and social contracts and the like, which can lead to increased political mobilization, but it might not be what the king wants.


Okay, so sociologically, if you look at human behavior and how we relate to each other, we kind of want to live in communities where our coworkers are our neighbours and there is as little hierarchy as possible. The core social structure above the individual is the family after all. So, while guilds and the like are bad things from a social perspective in that entry and exit from their organizations are extremely limited, and they can clamp down on a significant amount of human potential by limiting the ability to do what they are actually good at in favour of what their parents did more often than not, in terms of relations to each other you have a situation that is much closer to how our brains want us to live. Contractual obligations between employer and employee are "fairer" in that they are theoretically a two way street, but they end up with people wandering around not forming social bonds, and the power differential between employer and employee tends to be so great that the situation is trends towards dehumanizing for the employee. So a modern professional co-op can be seen in some ways an attempt to return the traditional social bonds of guilds, small farming communities, or the like while retaining the ability to easily leave bad situations instead of being stuck there by dint of there being only one game in town, and also taking advantage of modern industrial and corporate efficiencies.

The ability to do this is probably at least a century of social development for the Ymaryn away, but then again maybe you will get lucky with rolls and choices and figure it out unusually quickly.
 
Okay, so sociologically, if you look at human behavior and how we relate to each other, we kind of want to live in communities where our coworkers are our neighbours and there is as little hierarchy as possible. The core social structure above the individual is the family after all. So, while guilds and the like are bad things from a social perspective in that entry and exit from their organizations are extremely limited, and they can clamp down on a significant amount of human potential by limiting the ability to do what they are actually good at in favour of what their parents did more often than not, in terms of relations to each other you have a situation that is much closer to how our brains want us to live. Contractual obligations between employer and employee are "fairer" in that they are theoretically a two way street, but they end up with people wandering around not forming social bonds, and the power differential between employer and employee tends to be so great that the situation is trends towards dehumanizing for the employee. So a modern professional co-op can be seen in some ways an attempt to return the traditional social bonds of guilds, small farming communities, or the like while retaining the ability to easily leave bad situations instead of being stuck there by dint of there being only one game in town, and also taking advantage of modern industrial and corporate efficiencies.

The ability to do this is probably at least a century of social development for the Ymaryn away, but then again maybe you will get lucky with rolls and choices and figure it out unusually quickly.
Wow, I was under the impression that we're still a century or two of social development away from figuring it out in the real world.

Yeah, I know there are small professional co-ops here and there.
 
Wow, I was under the impression that we're still a century or two of social development away from figuring it out in the real world.

Yeah, I know there are small professional co-ops here and there.

There's a number of success stories around the world, it is just that we don't exactly deploy it en masse, and there are typically a lot of scale up issues. Like, an agricultural commune is probably the closest thing we have to the 'natural state' of human economy, it's just that coordination beyond the level of the commune tends to run into various issues, which usually result from external factors to the system in of itself (the overarching economy is capitalistic and hostile, the leaders of commune have let their limited amount of power go to their heads and try to become new age barons, the leadership of the country are a bunch of dictatorial oligarchs or autocrats, the rest of the economy is imploding from mismanagement...).

Like, this thread showed that a lot of people don't know that socialism is really, really old. Like, there are huge amounts of traditional economies that are basically run on the same principles of a lot of modern socialist thought, it is just that as the technology and number of people in society advances you run into some major coordination problems that make small scale solutions not work on the larger scale, and if there is one thing that history has taught us, it is that the more people you can efficiently coordinate together, the more power you have as a society to change the world. Like, all civilizations are basically a complex layering of systems to solve two core problems:

1. How do we feed everyone?
2. How do we keep someone else from preventing us from doing 1?

These then spinning off increasingly complex solutions that have their own problems and caveats that disrupt the current answers to the questions. Like, our own modern society has essentially got question 1 locked down to an insane degree, but the solution requires entire classes of people to build things and perform services to keep the rest of society from going insane from boredom.
 
There are a few examples of Cooperatives like the John Lewis Group and the (aptly named) Cooperative (which operates a bank among other subsections).

As for their application irl, I can't say much. The reason that they don't hold such a large sway in the world could be that companies are naturally better at larger scale operations, it could be that cooperatives have been bought out or suppressed, it simply be that the opportunities available to cooperative groups are limited. There is plenty of evidence to show that they work just not enough to show how well larger ones work compared to other forms of businesses(?) barring the above mentions.
 
I'm tempted to push for something novel, like running state corporations for key industries and utilities, and leaving everything else for small~mid-sized syndicates. We can focus our anti-corruption practices on a relatively small sector of the economy, and have everyone else compete with each other without exploitation, at least in theory. Hopefully that won't harm our Paternalistic Stewardship ethos.
 
Alright, having combed over the design doc and clarified some things, I feel like I have a decent handle of what we'll be wanting to do going forward. Time for planning that nobody asked for!

A quick reminder of our likely starting stats. They may change, so don't get too hung up on them, but it gives a rough idea of what we're working with here:

Econ
Industrial Cap 2/3
Development 10/15
Pollution 0

Culture
Consciousness 3 (4)
Standard of Living 3
Happiness 5 (4)/10

Research
Academies 3/3
Education 3
Innovation 2

Diplomacy
Trust 8
Espionage 8

Martial
Militancy 5
Armies 6
Navies 3

The most important things to remember is that Industrial Capacity is the new econ. We need it for basically everything, which should come as no surprise considering the quest is now called Paths of Industrialization. You want more Education and Academies? Your statement is really, "I want more Industrial Capacity so we can build more Academies." Consciousness, Armies, Navies, Happiness, Political Will, Education and Innovation all eventually come down to how much Industrial Capacity you have at your disposal. The only exception are some Soft Power option like Espionage and Trust.

So, Industrial Capacity is important. Duh. What goes hand in hand with this is the importance of eating not!Siberia. This is because we need to have available Active Development to continue raising IC, which makes it sort of the new Econ Expansion. As of this moment, we have two option for this:

Develop Transport Infrastructure - 1 PW, -3 Temp IC, +1 Max Development, (4 more uses to remove Undeveloped Hinterlands status)

Claim Kyberi Territory - 1 PW, -1 Temp IC, +2 Max Development, increases required Transport Infrastructure to remove Undeveloped Hinterlands status

The important thing to note is that Transport Infrastructure gives half the Max Development for three times the Temp IC. This is particularly bad for us because we're maxed out at 3 IC right now, and only regenerate 2-3 Temp IC per turn. Once we break the backs of the Guilds and transition to a better economic system this will be less of a concern, but early on we absolutely need to be claiming portions of land if we want to jump start our Industry.


So that's our early game. Claim Territory, Develop Industry and funnel it into other projects while trying to break the Guilds. Use spare Political Will for Soft Power actions like Trust and Espionage. But what should we be building for late game? In my opinion, we need to start with Innovation. Why? Because it makes almost everything better. Here's a sample of actions that become much more efficient after reaching certain thresholds of Innovation:

Increase Navies: 1PW: Temp Increases Navies by 1, -1 Temp IC
2PW: Increases Navies by 1, -1 IC
2PW + Innovation >15: Increases Navies by 1, -3 Temp IC

Improve Standard of Living - 1PW: Temp Increases SoL by 1, -1 Temp IC
2PW: Increases SoL by 1, -1 IC
2PW + Innovation >10: Increases SoL by 1, -3 Temp IC


What you'll notice is that, once we reach enough Innovation, we no longer need to spend Permanent IC to increase things. This is a really big deal because if we cannot transition to spending Temp IC, we will cease Industrializing once we can no longer expand to new lands. Aside from the fact that it means no more Martial, not being able to Improve Standard of Living means we can no longer Improve Education:

Improve Education - 2 PW: -1 SoL, +1 Education, +1 Innovation

No Education means no more Academies or increasing our Consciousness, which means no increasing our PW regen and thus no increasing our actions per turn. Because of this, I think we should rush 8 Perm Innovation with Support Innovation:

Support Innovation - 1 PW: -1 Temp IC, +2 Temp Innovation
2 PW: -1 SoL, +2 Innovation

For a measly 6 PW, we can get most of the way towards making SoL no longer cost Perm IC. After this point, we can switch to Improve Education. It is less efficient for Innovation, but by this time what we really want is Education for Academies and Consciousness. After enough Education spamming we'll hit 15 Innovation, which will make raising Armies and Navies much easier.

Obviously we'll need to be raising Martial before this point, and we'll be doing Soft Power actions throughout, but this is our late game goal. At this point, we can start churning out advanced Naval vessels like it's nobodies business.


Now for something to change and invalidate all of this :V
 
So, did the Ymaryn People already regain some of their old power and traits thanks to the new alliances, or are we still lacking most of what made us, well, us.
 
So quick question. How prestigious are we at the moment in comparison to others? As a Great Power we have a minimum of 15, we are now at 50.

So @Academia Nut whwre are we on the rankings?
 
@Academia Nut how's the world's bullion supply looking right now? Are they all flooding into Hung? Do the Ymaryn have a positive bullion balance?

Large amounts of specie are being directed into the Hung yes.

So quick question. How prestigious are we at the moment in comparison to others? As a Great Power we have a minimum of 15, we are now at 50.

So @Academia Nut whwre are we on the rankings?

You are pretty prestigious, going to need to work out the exact rankings, but the Hung will start at #1, Hespranxer probably #2, and then you are probably somewhere in the #5 to #7 slot. These rankings are going to be pretty fluid during this period due to the whole 'Industrialization' thing.
 
Napoleon is never happy with what he has and will always go for more.
That's actually not true. Napoleon wasn't some madman that wanted to conquer the entire world just because - what he really wanted is to deal with Great Britain, because it kept screwing with him and generally was worlds' first since Seven Years War. Had Russia continued Continental Blockade, he wouldn't invade.
 
One thing we need to keep in mind is that the napoleonic wars lasted a little over 10 years. That will be 2 1/2 to 3 turns (assuming it's still going to 4 year turns) we want a seat at the table at the end of it as it will be a bad idea to just let the new world order be decided without us.

So any plan should have us enter the in no more then 2 turns.
 
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