What would you choose to do next turn if the current winning options win?
I am not him, but I'd say Main either Saltern or Garden to make use of opportunity to get +1 Stability out of the deal, and probably....festivals, boats or double down on megaproject?

[Main] [Megaproject] Saltern
[Secondary] New Settlement - Southshore
[Secondary] New Settlement - Southshore x2

That works too, I guess...no no no no no I have a big argument against any more new provinces at the moment, actually:

Valleyhome is the least slavey about their half-exiles, and it is a very stable and prosperous province. Redshore and Sacred Forest are also fairly good about it. Stonepen and Northshore have populations that were absorbed from elsewhere and were the least settled over the past couple of refugee waves, so received large populations of outsiders. The Stallion Tribes only don't take slaves because their leadership strictly adheres to the law, but they tend to force assimilation via annihilation of adult male populations first, with the male children of the newcomers often being labelled troublemakers. They, incidentally, have the weirdest gender balance since while their women come from more naturally egalitarian nomad tribes, their gender balance is by far the worst due to endemic murder of male from outside tribes (admittedly, they start it, but hooooo boy do the leaders take advantage of it). Polygamy is something that happens within the People, especially traders making ties with outsiders, but it is endemic among the Stallion Tribes to a degree unheard of elsewhere within the People.

Newer provinces are more likely to be less careful about following ways of the People.
I'd rather start with strengthening them - via Festivals or, if we can, Enforce Law. Or both.
 
What would you choose to do next turn if the current winning options win?
We'd start the turn at Econ 7, Stability 0, which is sufficient to finish The Gardens without any Economy actions taken even if we roll the maximum number of actions needed. Kicking at this point is wasteful. We don't have any need to Kick these projects, as the Stability cost is much less efficient than simply using Policy actions, and directly impedes our ability to segue into the second project immediately.

So:
[Main] The Gardens
[Secondary] New Settlement - Southern Shore
[Secondary] New Settlement - Southern Shore x2
[Law] The Gardens
[Secondary Province] The Gardens
[Secondary Province] The Gardens x2

End state: Econ 5, Stability 1
Significant chance of 1 turn completion due to Symphony, which will immediately give us the resources to do Salterns right after if we wanted. Southern Shore settlement is secured and will be able to provide better location options for Salterns between it and Redshore.
Assuming no events distort it, we're best served with taking Expansion policy upon completion of the Gardens(so our provinces will settle the Eastern Hills for us), then build the Copper Mine if theres no other major problems with it and throw up some basic defense structures for our new province with towers. This will give us the tools and economy to take the Dam project the turn after, switching the Policy over to Megaproject Support and building the Dam to finish the waterworks synergy.

After THAT we should have all the tools needed to build Salterns really cheaply. You kind of want copper pipe for those.
 
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We'd start the turn at Econ 7, Stability 0, which is sufficient to finish The Gardens without any Economy actions taken even if we roll the maximum number of actions needed. Kicking at this point is wasteful. We don't have any need to Kick these projects, as the Stability cost is much less efficient than simply using Policy actions, and directly impedes our ability to segue into the second project immediately.

So:
[Main] The Gardens
[Secondary] New Settlement - Southern Shore
[Secondary] New Settlement - Southern Shore x2
[Law] The Gardens
[Secondary Province] The Gardens
[Secondary Province] The Gardens x2

End state: Econ 5, Stability 1
Significant chance of 1 turn completion due to Symphony, which will immediately give us the resources to do Salterns right after if we wanted. Southern Shore settlement is secured and will be able to provide better location options for Salterns between it and Redshore.
Assuming no events distort it, we're best served with taking Expansion policy upon completion of the Gardens(so our provinces will settle the Eastern Hills for us), then build the Copper Mine if theres no other major problems with it and throw up some basic defense structures for our new province with towers. This will give us the tools and economy to take the Dam project the turn after, switching the Policy over to Megaproject Support and building the Dam to finish the waterworks synergy.

After THAT we should have all the tools needed to build Salterns really cheaply. You kind of want copper pipe for those.
I'm still more in favor of the Salterns, and I reject you're analysis that it won't give bonus econ.
 
Newer provinces are more likely to be less careful about following ways of the People.
I'd rather start with strengthening them - via Festivals or, if we can, Enforce Law. Or both.
Not true. Refugees are the problem. New provinces are populated by our people from our culture.
I'm still more in favor of the Salterns, and I reject you're analysis that it won't give bonus econ.
Feel free to.

The only things that generate more than the Stewards Economy are stuff which directly increase manpower, or expand food production.

Food preservation doesn't do that. It just smooths things out in famines. The same total amount of excess food is produced and consumed. All our food preservation improvements never did it before. It's unlikely to suddenly start.
EDIT: It WOULD probably make More Boats more economical though, since the ability to preserve fish better means we can actually convert the haul from More Boats into usable food. But not intrinsically
 
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Negaverse Spirit Talkers 3
This is a continuation of earlier omakes: this (1) and this (2).
Negaverse- Spirit Talkers 3
Discussion in 'Quests' started by Philosopher Luna, Feb 27, 2017.
Winning vote:
[] Worship Us -> failure
[] Star Axe -> critical success
A Pile of Problems
Your influence on the Thunder Horse continues to grow, but so much slower than desired. It has been several generations since your attempts started. A priest class is starting to form, but their influence remains minimal, and what few there are are locked into studying the Star Axe. Aided by your whispers, they have formed a much better analysis of its capabilities than even the bravest dared to hope for. It is now confirmed to be a semi-sapient Tier 4 Artifact of Power, with the following capabilities

1) It empowers those who Defend. So long as the wielder is fighting in the defense of their home, it grants a massive boost in both power and tactical ingenuity. This was the one function which aided you in defending your people from destruction. Sadly, it alone was not enough.

2) It brings Justice. The Nomads and the Valley Workers (Called the Ymmri by the Thunder Horse) were the only ones with a legitimate claim to the axe- and both fought to retake it, to return it to its rightful owners of the Nomads. This alone nearly cancelled out the first buff, but that was not all, oh no.

3) It brings Honour, but in an extremely warped form. Its secondary form is actually the most standard- if it can not find its warped Honour in your current actions, it brings you an Honourable Death. Its primary form of Honour, however, is so warped as to be completely unrecognizable. One must do what is necessary while at the same time expressing humility. Humility! It apparently decided that your people were insufficiently honourable, and decided to bring an Honourable Death to all your people.

4) It empowers those who act in Unity. Your people were alone, small groups of elites all doing what they thought would be most useful. The Nomads and the Valley Workers were United in their quest to recover the axe. This aspect aided your enemies.

While it is an enormously powerful artifact, it is one which must be treated with caution, for it has its own opinions on who should win, and woe upon any who try to use it against its desires. (Can apply "+ Star Axe" modifier to any military action you take. The Thunder Horses will not use it without your influence, at least for now. Use with caution.)

The Thunder Horse have continued their raids against the lowlanders, but they've hit a bit of a snag. While initial efforts seemed promising, they started butting up against the Highland Kingdom, the reformed remnants of the Western Confederation. They claimed that those people were under their protection, and were willing to fight to defend them.
Then, the Valley Workers apparently decided that they wanted no part in this war and declared that they were ceasing all trade with both sides, though they would accept any trade missions sent to them. Then, the Highland Kingdom started winning, with the warriors started returning with fewer and fewer spoils, dying in ever greater numbers.
And then the Dead Priests reappeared, along with a new group. A group of imposters who also called themselves the Thunder Horse, the descendants of those who took to the east rather than returning to the north.

Now it comes to a decision:
[] [Lowlands] Give up
Do your best to influence them to get the hell out of the lowlands. This will drop stability and may damage your influence.
[] [Lowlands] Focus on the Highland Kingdom
[] [Lowlands] Focus on the Dead Priests
[] [Lowlands] Focus on the imposter Thunder Horse
[] [Lowlands] Attempt to make peace with the Highland Kingdom
[] [Lowlands] Let the Thunder Horse fight them all, attempt to further increase your influence instead
Note: remember, any of the fighting options here may be boosted by adding "+Star Axe".

In additions, rumors have been spreading from the lowland slaves you've taken. It seems that the Valley Workers have some sort of magical rocks which have cast a geas over their entire population, including their king. All follow the rules of the rocks. You may wish to respond to this in some way. At the same time though, there have been rumors of dissatisfaction, that the Valley Workers may not like these rules as much as the old ones. However, is dealing with this a priority?

[] [Other] Trade Mission - Ymmri
Send a trade mission to the Valley Workers/Ymmri, find out what's up with them, see if they need help.
[] [Other] War Mission - Ymmri
They must have been taken over by hostile spirits. We must free them. (And maybe take their stuff too, that doesn't hurt)
[] [Other] Spread peace
Use your influence to try to mellow out the Thunder Horses, make them a more peaceful people and less likely to raid others unprovoked.
[] [Other] Focus internally
Has a chance to improve economy, mysticism, stability, or technological development.
[] [Other] Attempt to increase influence

Alphahugger said:
So we failed our influence check, and still have neither numbers nor the full value spread. As to the star axe... that's a powerful artifact, but dear god the downsides. The Nomads must have been triggering those like crazy, no wonder they died so quickly. I'm kinda scared at the revelation of just how powerful the Valley Workers were even back then- this is some powerful magic, not just their farming shit we knew they had. I'm still salty that you idiots never managed to help them at all. With their help we almost certainly would've survived.
Also, what the heck kinda name is Ymmri? How do you even pronounce that? At least our names had reasonable vowels in there...

[X] [Lowlands] Attempt to make peace with the Highland Kingdom
[X] [Other] Trade Mission - Ymmri
I'm here first for once so let's get these godlike beings on our side for once. And if we make peace with the HK they're a lot more likely to restart trade with us.
tryzip said:
Holy shit. The Valley Workers' spirits have gone public. They must have done a direct, draconian takeover. They did it with good timing too- we're busy fighting literally everyone (three way war...) and they're not trading with us anymore so we're less likely to notice, and can't really afford to intervene.

...How do we get a takeover option?
[X] [Lowlands] Attempt to make peace with the Highland Kingdom
[X] [Other] Spread peace

Let's make these guys into a better version of our last ones. Once we're peaceful enough we'll be able to talk things over with the Valley Workers, but our people need to be willing to do so first.
EmptyNull said:
This is fine. Everything is fine.
[X] [Lowlands] Attempt to make peace with the Highland Kingdom
[X] [Other] Spread peace
We can't afford to fight a four-way war, we should at least get it down to 3. And yeah, less war would probably be good, or at the very least less war that's coming straight from us. If we could get rid of some of those war traits that's be grand...
croteamTALOS said:
Would anyone like some milk and cookies as we tidy this little mess up?

Quite clearly we need to remove ourselves from one war, three enemies is too many to be fighting all at once. I don't think the Ymmri vote is that important, but we really need to get our influence up. I want that magic too, but we're in no place to do an "ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL" like the Ymmri's spirits apparently have.

[X] [Lowlands] Attempt to make peace with the Highland Kingdom
[X] [Other] Attempt to increase influence
GhostAngel said:
Bah, we don't need peace. We need more magic. We died because we used all our magic fighting the Valley Workers. The obvious answer is simple: more magic. These guys have like none, we need to fix this ASAP.

[X] [Other] Trade Mission - Ymmri

I don't care what we do with the lowlands, but we need more magic. They're outright doing magic in the streets with those mind-control rocks, this can't be that hard.
@Philosopher Luna
Can we return the Star Axe to the Ymmri for a bonus to the trade mission?
Theiodamas420 said:
[X] [Lowlands] Attempt to make peace with the Highland Kingdom
[X] [Other] Focus internally

War is bad. Stop it.
And, as before, we need to make sure these guys are stable and prosperous before it's worth doing anything else. Stop trying to jump ahead, we saw how well that worked last time. All that fine-grained control sure helped us out last time, didn't it? (Spoiler: it didn't!)
These guys may be primitive, but they're not complete idiots. Focus on getting growth and not getting screwed.
Philosopher Luna said:
GhostAngel said:
Can we return the Star Axe to the Ymmri for a bonus to the trade mission?
Normally yes, but you don't have enough influence. The new "Magic is Dangerous" value is triggering so hard right now that the Thunder Horse aren't willing to make the Ymmri even more powerful.
GhostAngel said:
Fine. Let's open that option up then.
[X] [Other] Trade Mission - Ymmri
[X] [Other] Attempt to increase influence
 
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I wonder what kind of benefits we might get for completing these mega-projects. I would also like a look at what other polities think of us after this.
 
Also thanks for the nega-verse, it's interesting the way you portray the SV views on the setting having been affected by their experiences.
 
See this part keeps messing me up. Is Southshore actually south, or only south in relation to our march?

I'm asking because I hope we expand towards them to help integrate them better
It's south of redcoast, near the HK and southern metal workers. we're taking this location so that the HK can't bumrush it for salt
 
I wonder what kind of benefits we might get for completing these mega-projects. I would also like a look at what other polities think of us after this.

I think for saltern.
  • Centralized dock, due to need of avoiding construction and operation disruption.
  • Wild spread and demand for metal tools, both for cutting up stone slabs and flattened saltern site.
  • Weather observations due to need of separation of salt water evaporation pools. Rain reduces the bitter taste in ocean water, once evaporated the salt will be higher quality.
  • Quantity land transportation of heavy goods with haste. Humid ocean air will ruin a lot of salt.
  • Wax seal of salt pots. More preservation techniques.
 
To be fair ocean isn't the only place for salt. They can get it from SV i mean salt flats and salt caves.

It's not too difficult to setup small operations cooking salt around the ocean either.

It's just we have the capacity and capability to mass produce the stuff with saltern mega project, without added fuel.
 
Food preservation doesn't do that. It just smooths things out in famines. The same total amount of excess food is produced and consumed. All our food preservation improvements never did it before. It's unlikely to suddenly start.
EDIT: It WOULD probabl
All aka all 1? Central Milling was specifically noted to increase the amount of food we possess as a result of longer storage times.

Idk about the ash glazed pots as we only just now gained the tech.

Anyways, Saltern synergizes with external actions to a superior degree and due to Symphony can be finished in a single turn with a kick. This also means that we can do The Garden AFTER The Dam, so that we're accounting for changes in water flow.
 
Food preservation doesn't do that. It just smooths things out in famines. The same total amount of excess food is produced and consumed. All our food preservation improvements never did it before. It's unlikely to suddenly start.
Reductions in spoilage won't increase the total food?
 
@Academia Nut Realized i didn't know a rather important tidbit for writing this omake...what do the Highlanders call us? I know you've said that they're the first group to have their internal and external names match, and the Dead priests and the lowland minors call us the hill folk, but what do the HK call us? or the Dead priests and nomads?
 
Just thought I'd go through some of the options offered last turn, and try to think of what effects not explicitly mentioned they might have. It turned out to be a bigger job than I expected, since less of the options were likely to actually have no effects beyond what was stated.

Art Patronage - Wealth of the first and second kind can be used to create wealth of the third kind to the benefit of all
* S: -1 Econ, +2 Art
* M: -2 Econ, +3 Art, +1 Prestige, potential innovations
Art is likely to have two effects: the creation/ development of our culture (bringing together our increasingly disunited regions) and inventions along the lines of cartography, architecture, increased literacy (for storytelling, etc.) and a general increase in intellectualism.


Black Soil - Production is now regular and huge amounts of trash are turned to black soil every year, but there's always room for more production [Shapers] [King]
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Econ next turn, additional effects
* M: +1 Econ, additional effects
* used 2 times
Further uses for black soil, but possibly investigating different uses for different waste products as well? Using waste products in tanning to create leather comes to mind, though it's pretty disgusting work - I imagine our penalty against envirnomental damage would kick in.


Build Chariots - Once the domain of rich nomad chieftains, there is now enough copper to make construction of this new design practical for the People and deployable on a large scale. Used: 0 times
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Martial
*M: -2 Econ, +3 Martial, other effects
The invention of rudimentary carts to carry large quantities of goods certainly comes to mind - @Academia Nut , do we already have carts for transporting goods? It would be odd to have chariots before carts, but we stole them from another group who themselves quite possibly stole them, and we never did take a main action on this to my knowledge...



Build Watchtowers - Stone and brick towers for warriors to sit in and scan the horizon for trouble, these towers can help stave off raids and improve response against attacks. (Northshore has some watchtowers)
*S: -1 Econ, some watchtowers
*M: -1 Econ, many watchtowers
If we had a bunch of watchtowers in line of sight of each other, we could feasibly have them signal one another by lighting signal fires. This would probably have a pretty massive effect on response times to threats. This action doesn't actually mention additional effects, so it would likely be an effect of another action (or just a random invention? Those happen sometimes, right?)


Copper Mine - A source of copper is known within the People's territory, and it can be expanded to produce not just small amounts of the ore for art purposes, but into a full fledged mine, but the effects are currently unpleasant. Stability cost can be reduced if a way of mitigating the ecological damage can be developed.
*S: -1 Econ, -2 Stability, +4 Econ next turn, other effects
*M: -2 Stability, +4 Econ, other effects
(I'm pretty sure this has actually dropped to -1 Stability as a result of the new techs). Aside from the many, many potential uses for copper It is worth considering that this might be the first time we've dug deep into the ground since building the Grand Canal, and we promptly filled that with water - we might learn something from that? We have masonry, maybe discovering different types of rock will lead to some innovation.



Expand Economy - Encourage the growth of food producing activities such as farming, pastures, or fishing, depending on where focus is placed
* +1 Econ, potential additional effects
* 7 uses remain before requiring new territory
Honestly, given our current issues with disunited cultures expanding our economy might not be ideal - more people means less interaction with more distant group and more potential for fracturing. On the other hand, if we grow large enough then taking in larger numbers of refugees will cause less instability, since they'll be smaller compared to our increased population size.


Expand Forests - The People have knowledge of how to regrow and repair forests, which extends to bringing them to places they have never been, with considerable effort
* S: -1 Econ, grows forest, +1 Econ next turn if in settled territory and controlled
* M: -1 Econ, grows forest, +2 Econ next turn if in settled and controlled territory
We already have so many forests a few more are unlikely to do much, and we already use wood as a construction material. It's possible that as a result of having so many damn trees we'll be able to implement sustainable logging practices on a larger scale?


Expand Holy Sites - The current places dedicated to the spirits and wisdom have accumulated interesting objects and tellers of stories, but they could be made a bit better
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Mysticism
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Mysticism, +1 Art, potential additional effects
More literacy, more SCIENCE MAGIC. This one is so broad in its' effects I can't really offer anything.


Expand Snail Cultivation - While now more reliably grown and harvested, the snail domestication has only managed to hold environmental changes at bay rather than increase production. More investment would increase cultivation
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Diplo
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Diplo, potential additional effects
I had to go look up what these snails were for again - apparently they're for making dyes. Might have an effect on Art? I'm not sure that was a thing when this option was first offered.


Expand Warriors - More men can be inducted into the ranks of the warriors every year and not face major food shortfalls
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Martial
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Martial, potential additional effects
We're currently at Diplomacy 5, Economy 5, Martial 8 - I'm not sure if I should read that as us being particularly fierce at the moment or - since it hasn't really been a focus of ours - our martial points are each weighted less in worth versus our other points (in that specific field that is - conducting war with pure economy would probably go badly.) Anyway, more soldiers might mean more stability, and we might learn something relating to military thinking, as a result of having to manage larger numbers of troops, and to have to consider whether using large numbers of troops might call for different tactics and thinking to smaller numbers.


Improve Annual Festival - A festival for every season, but their expansion can help put the People at ease and teach good practices.
* M: -2 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art chance for additional effects
* 2M: -3 Econ, +1 Stability, +3 Art, chance for additional effects
* Max Stability: Legitimacy - 1
This could be really good or really bad. It'll almost certainly affect our disunity problem, pulling people together into a shared culture, but it might end up having negative social trait consequences, especially when we already have culture problems.


More Blackbirds - Elite scouts and woodsmen, the Blackbirds are a potent force, if not exactly mainline fighters. More of them could prove useful
* S: -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial more Blackbirds
* M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, many more Blackbirds, additional effects
Blackbirds already act as our intelligence service, scouting and observing unseen. It only takes someone thinking of trying to do that whilst pretending to be someone who isn't a Blackbird, and you've got infiltrators. Probably super useful as a king.


More Carrion Eaters - Keepers of sacred and profane knowledge, the Carrion Eaters thread a dangerous path but bring valuable knowledge for treating wounds and inspiring courage, greatly bolstering the morale of warriors by ensuring them that their companions are not doomed if they fall. More could prove useful.
*S: -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, more Carrion Eaters
*M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, many more Carrion Eaters, additional effects
Possible medical advancement (geared more towards injury than illness) and also the possibility that not only will our warriors have a large morale boost, but the increase in survivability means that warfare is less risky - so the warriors will likely be more willing to take bigger risks.


More Boats - The things are expensive but oh so useful, so having more of them will increase your capacity for trade, travel, and fishing
* S: -2 Econ, +1 Econ and +1 Diplo next turn, other potential effects
* M: -2 Econ, +1 Econ end of turn, +1 Econ and Diplo next turn, additional effects, tiny chance of innovation;
* used 3 times
Boats! Possibility of increased connections between our provinces as a result of the improved travel, which might indirectly have a knock-on effect on our culture issues, we might possibly invent better boats (more suited for long-distance travel?)


New Settlement - There are a few new sites that could have new settlements placed on them: within Northshore (inland to the north into the plains), badlands, eastern hills, northern pastures within Stonepen, southern shores, west of the Black River (west of Northshore province)
* S: +1 Econ next turn, increases number of times Expand Econ can be taken
* M: +1 Econ and +1 Mysticism end of turn, increases the number of times Expand Econ can be taken
Special: Badlands settlement requires a Main action to work at all and only returns as a Secondary, but increases response time and decreases logistics for movement in and out of the badlands
Special: Main action for Eastern Hills, Southern Shores, Black River produces a new province
Possibly extra effects based on location, but I haven't been keeping track of the provinces to be honest. Again though, increased population - and increased spreading of that already varying population - might have negative effects.


New Trails - The new coastal settlement is supported mostly by boats and the expansion of the limited trails there would be of great utility
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, other effects
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, +1 Diplo, other effects
More and better travel would be useful for many reasons, generally making everything more efficient, from transporting goods to responding to threats to simply communicating.

Proclaim Glory - A recent innovation from the south, by using art the King can promote people to trust his decisions; modified by Diplomacy skill
* S: -2 Art, +1 Legitimacy
* M: -3 Art, -1 Econ, +1 Legitimacy, +1 Stability, potential +1 Prestige
* Max Stability: Legitimacy
Would probably help bring our people together, more explicitly on our terms - this is actively promoting our way of doing things after all. Might help with the Stallions, though they might just think we're being arrogant? Don't know if they'd react by being impressed or seeing someone who thinks he's better than them and ought to be taken down a peg or two. More probably the first though, given the focus is entirely on "I'm great" and not "you suck".



Sailing Mission - The new boats have proven themselves capable of exploring long distances, so what else might they discover along the shores of the sea?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Exploration! Might lead to mapmaking (to relay back where everything is), might discover new peoples to trade with, might discover other points of interest.


Study Forests - The holy site within the sacred forest is the repository of lore on the forests and the things within them, but could the shamans learn more? 1 Use
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Research action, not sure what we'd find in the forest we haven't already though. Maybe some plants or animals with useful properties?


Study Health - What secrets of nature can be used to improve the health of the People?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Another research action, depends pretty much entirely on what aspect of health is affected. We might be able to improve our sanitation systems with our new theory - maybe we'll work out that even if it isn't diseased, general muck and grime can cause problems?


Study Metal - Metals can be extracted from certain rocks, but there are toxic byproducts. Can anything be done about this, and can other metals be extracted?
* S: -1 Mysticism, chance of new insights
* M: -1 Econ, -2 Mysticism, greater chance of new insights
Probably progress towards handling mining and smelting operations safely, and towards getting other metals.


Study Stars - What secrets do the heavens hold when you study the stars and their motions carefully? 6 Uses, 3/3 Uses in a Row
*S: +1 Mysticism, tiny chance of new insights
Cannot be used as a Main action
Navigation by the stars can be useful - very useful out at sea. This would also likely improve out mathematical theories. Probably better to wait until Stonehenge though.


Survey Lands - Foreigners have discovered strange materials within their lands, are these materials perhaps also found within the lands of the People?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success; used 1 time
Literally just finding new resources of all sorts. I'm not sure what we'd find - what resources are we currently lacking knowledge of?


Trade Mission - Sending a major caravan to another large group can bring new opportunities and find out more about the outside world
* S: -1 Diplo, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of of turn;
* M: -1 Diplo, -1 Econ, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of turn, +1-2 Diplo next turn
Trade, potential tech gains like with the metalworkers, knowledge of other groups etc.
 
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See this part keeps messing me up. Is Southshore actually south, or only south in relation to our march?

I'm asking because I hope we expand towards them to help integrate them better
Uhh, expanding out in that direction isn't liable to assimilate them faster, they're so far away that despite the trip back to valleyhome solely passing through our lands, it takes the better part of a year to have decent centralized contact. Putting another province where we arguably already have a province won't integrate, enhancing either the level of abstract we can give orders through, or enhancing the speed at which our orders pass along, are the only ways to help integrate them.
 
--Ignore boiling water. Wood is too precious to waste on burning WATER of all things. Silly Ymirri.
This is just plain wrong. Nomads in the desert don't burn wood. They burn desiccated animal dung. Its cheap high density flammables that is virtually always abundant.
[X] A significant number (-1 Stability, +2 Econ)
[x] Share with even those who don't want to listen (-1 Diplomacy, +1 immediate Stability, chance for additional stability, other effects)
[X] Megaproject Support

Megaproject Support is a no brainer here.

A significant number means a bit of an uptick for the reason of bringing in plague victims for study. Without anyone claims that The People are taking advantage of the situation.

So the complex reasons go to the spam knowledge sharing. I'll be sticking in quotes from people that popped up.
Superstitions meanwhile proliferate. Metal in general was considered a cursed material that could be unleashed. Which would align with the Star Axe.
-First, Star Fall means Star Plague... this is now 2 for two. Last time it was the Khan hero unit that ended up getting stomped. This time The People went out of their way to Yoink the Fallen Star.... and then a Star Plague! You don't want The People to be targeted as source of the Star Plague. Lowlands people are need stability and you do not want to be the guy with the ball in kill the man with the ball. By spreading your knowledge on this the rumor is that you worked to counter the Star Plague. Freaky psychic, mystic people that you are.

Honestly, I expect it to be the rich and in charge that get the most benefits from the knowledge spread... but positive reputation boost either way. I expect dried fruit to be the sugar source rather than honey though. Outside of the crazy bio-weapon fairy scenario of stupid no negative effects on you. Economic boosts from salt sails.

-Second: Spreading the knowledge around means a caravan or six active. This means actually getting trade going with TH + Highlanders again. Things finally seem to have calmed between them. If your lucky they will end up both jumping the ETH for being the source of the plague. Common foe and all. Also, intel glorious intelligence on the lowlands and such. The DP could have all their priests and shamans going through a mime phase for all you currently know.

-Third: There is no way in hell outsiders aren't going to notice your lack of plague. You didn't close the borders or anything. People are going to want to know how that works... particularly with the yoinking of the Fallen Star.
I don't see why people want to push the cure on everybody, being mysterious is neccesety if we want to hold the soft power of "the guys who kill demons". Gratitude rarely lasts long between nations. On the other hand we should share with the friendlies, because the People love their friends.
Simply put, its not about getting eternal credit... its about not being the sacrificial offering for other groups stability issues. Having lines of communications open and trying to help them with the plague... not your fault they aren't really advanced enough to figure it out on their own... than be seen as the source of the problem. Its apparently the ETH that caused this mess. Being the ones to spread that around means your part of the solution ll around instead of the problem.
One of the big reasons not to share the vaccine was because many people would have botched the implementation, and blamed us when things went wrong.
If they think the don't poop where you eat/drink is hard to follow... as people are noting... I don't want to think off the headsplosion radius if they tried to copy the small pox counter. Let alone keep it going with the amount of territory that keeps changing hands.
We hadn't traded with the Thunder Horse for 3 generations. Nobody considers friends whose last meeting was "they look about to attack us"
Actually, your last meeting was when they jumped those nomads stalking your expedition for the Fallen Star. Its particularly good timing now, as the openly tried to call off the feud. You'll know if its good timing or not to restart trade.
Herd immunity? The People see disease and say bring it on, we don need no stinking buffers when we could instead have our enemies die at little to no cost.
You are destined to not be part of the solution with that line of thought.
May I ask why some of you are voting to keep the medicine secret and not choose the risk free share with our friends option since it seems better in every way?
Hoarding instinct.
 
@Deathbybunnies expand snail cultivqation is what unlocked the Saltern, so I'm assuming it not only expands our main trade item, but doing it seems to help with inspiration for coastal engineering projects, like say a permanent harbor.
 
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