Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Depends on the density really. What a lot of tourists are never told is that you don't spread marmite (or vegemite) like a jam, you want it very thin unless you're used to the taste.
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Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
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- Original
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
And thus natives continue the time honored tradition of trolling the foreigners with "traditional" cuisine.
Wars give prestige if you win, and we've noticed that you get more prestige fighting great powers.
We get a shitload of prestige for fighting Nomad hordes, every turn even if we just stalemate them, but we barely got any fighting the Hathatyn.
So loosely based on past record(busy day here, no archive trawl to back it up):
-Main War Missions commit more prestige than Secondary
-Base Main War Mission gains 2 Prestige on critical success, 1 Prestige upon success, 0 on a draw, and -1/-2 respectively for failure and critical failure.
-If the other party is weaker, adjust success tier down one level, you don't get any prestige for beating on a weaker foe unless you crush them completely, by contrast, even fighting to a draw against an inferior foe may cost prestige.
--Reverse this for stronger foes.
--Strength calculation should be based on relative Prestige, because other polities don't know how strong their neighbors are except via prestige comparisons. This means that King of the Hill will make everyone aware that "the Ymaryn over there are the Prestige pinata!"
-Theres probably some adjustments here for Martial Honor and similar traits. Ymaryn almost certainly will lose extra Prestige if we lose territory for instance. And any Hero Generation trait likely has extra costs for losing Heroes in battle.
As such, you can extend this theory to other polity behaviors:
-Nomad Hordes start as a Prestige 0 Tribe. They beat up the endless other tribes around them, gaining Prestige rapidly per victory, allowing them to vassalize the defeated tribes as 'provinces' and then 'periphery states' to add them to the horde.
--Once the horde gets going, they can no longer gain Prestige from beating up on minors because all the individual tribes are too weak to transfer prestige on loss anymore, so they have to beat up on settled peoples for Prestige to keep growing.
--But if they stall against a settled foe, they start bleeding prestige, and their vassal tribes break away, draining their Martial and then collapsing.
-The Lowlands found a fast route to gaining Prestige early on, beating up and vassalizing the Lowland Minors.
--However, as the Xohyssiri found, once you were actually a dominant player on the lowlands you stopped getting any Prestige from beating up the Minors for slaves, so they switched over to Main Art Patronage to generate the Prestige they needed.
--And then they learned that their neighbors could fight THEM for prestige pinata once they reached King of the Hill, and stall.
...if so, Nomads will make hitting us a major achievement.
Both probably? Either way, Best of the Best generating Art from these actions means that Wealth tends to br recycled from overflow...but you cannot recycle LTE from overflow, as overflow Econ will also eat into econ slots.
Hmm, based on the Megaproject cost I think it's basically a Super Study Forest though. But we'll see how our Three Heroes deal with it.
So nice to have great leaders in a crisis.
Remember it was a Secondary Study Metal, which had a Tiny Chance of Insights.
I believe as a result, Secondary Study Metal is mostly only funded enough to find new ways to use existing techniques, while Main Study Metal would try to change the nature of metalworking itself.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Us surviving to be those archaeologists is one that immediately comes to mind.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
We could be making this if we put a bit of effort!
I'm always supportive of sugar anything, but maple syrup is clearly superior. :3
Main Study Forest / Secondary Study Alchemy / Secondary Study Health for syrup goodness we can find in forests?
- Location
- Huezil
Nope, but it's coffee what the diference? We even have candy made of bitter coffee...
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
No just honey, proper honey from honest hardworking bees. (Apis flora)
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It makes me really want modern Earth meet modern Not!Earth and shred copious tears of salt over it.
If sewage water floods their slums, disease is likely to spread to most of the city.
Anyways, I'm kinda surprised that we haven't gained enough prestige to increase the pilgrimage intake yet, honestly. You'd think we would have gone to leading by now... Maybe at 30 prestige?
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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- Lickwidget
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There is actually a relevant story here...
Go look up "Indian girl cries crystals".
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
And it tastes like honey should taste, somewhat sweet, earthy and slightly herbal, with a metallic aftertaste.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Err, wasn't most of our nomad-based prestige from the marches utterly destroying regular nomads after the horde left? It seems to be more of a CB-based thing; we got Prestige when we beat the Thunder Speakers on the "stop raids" CB, and got extra for taking the "Humiliate" wargoal, iirc. Likewise, our Marches used our free "Subdue Tribe or Humiliate War Goal" legacy to humiliate a bunch of regular nomad tribes, giving us prestige; the updates even specifically mentioned it as including them bringing chiefs to the king to humiliate them. We didn't get any prestige from the Hath war, and it wasn't because they weren't strong or prestigious enough; compared to random ass nomads they were pretty strong, especially with the frequent heroic kings. It was that we weren't able to press them on "humiliate", just "white peace", leaving us with our existing gains. The land we took was mostly through them abandoning it, not through taking it in war, so it was no more prestigious than, say, expanding to the eastern hills without a fight would be. If they hadn't rolled their newest hero king, we'd have been able to bring them to surrender instead of just negotiated white peace, and might have gotten another "what war goal do you want?" vote choice like with the Thunder Speakers...though thanks to symphony we might have just auto taken a "stop raids" or "humiliate" war goal, since taking new land likely wouldn't be considered part of either their offensive reconquest CB or our defensive response?
Widespread currency switched a lot of stuff from -2 econ to -1 econ, -1 wealth. Then Best of the Best added a -1 Weath, +1 Art to a lot of stuff. So currency was the relevant thing for making it so that a single true city can keep up Econ+Econ slots indefinitely for the most part.
I mean...at least as of a couple turns ago pilgrimage was still entirely internal, not external, so we might "just" be waiting for whatever poitn of prestige makes other civs actually care about our gods? ...or for that matter we might need to actually be less isolationist, and send some trade missions
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
Actually, what a lot of tourists are told is that it's chocolate spread. Vegemite, in particular, is about the right shade of brown.
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While the strength of the opponent certainly has something to do with the amount of prestige gained from winning, the key word is winning.
Our war with the Hat ended with a negotiated settlement, barely better than a white peace. If we had managed to destroy their armies, kill their kimg, or capture massive amounts of territory, we would have gained prestoge.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
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Well we did proclaim our gods to everyone we knew in the region when we worked on the Temple so I think we just need more Prestige.I mean...at least as of a couple turns ago pilgrimage was still entirely internal, not external, so we might "just" be waiting for whatever poitn of prestige makes other civs actually care about our gods? ...or for that matter we might need to actually be less isolationist, and send some trade missions
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
...Actually, are we sure that "far and wide" wasn't 'just' within the bounds of our civ? Because i'd thought that too, but then AN clarified that:
So yeah, maybe "Let the glory of your gods be known far and wide " just meant focusing on telling the People how glorious the gods were and making sure people knew that they could and should go visit the temple at least once? Considering that the other two options were basically about "what do we as a People focus on here?", it seems plausible...
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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- Lickwidget
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Multiple routes:
-Aqueducts - Build enough aqueducts and people will start to find ways to use running water more efficiently, and to move low bulk amounts of water uphill(for instance, multistorey structures would probably reward a waterwheel to crank water up to a cistern on the roof).
-Study Metal - A major advance in metalworking is simply that hammering iron is pretty labor intensive, so the more you have to make certain shapes repetitively(such as for instance, making iron shields or shovels), the more likely that someone will figure out how to create a hammer mill(you can power this with a wheel and a horse btw, no need for water) to save on the repeated hammer work.
-Art Patronage - How do you want to come up with cams and axles?
--Pottery. The predecessor of the hammer mill was a simple thing to make spinning pottery wheels easier, so that you could make lots of pots at less effort and produce more elaborate designs
--Weaving. In a related manner, spinning bulk amounts of thread for fabric uses similar mechanics.
-More Boats - As boats get larger, you need to use pulleys, gears and axles to manage the control surfaces of sails and rudder. This is however a long shot, there's many many alternative means to it.
So you know, all the actions we've never taken much of!
Dam is probably the least likely to produce the innovation there. You want to stop water from moving, and release water at controlled points. At no point is a demand for gears and wheels involved.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Flood and sluice gates could involve gearing in a simple way as well as rotating structures, also the need for leverage as the hatches get bigger might promote pulleys and the like.
We were told the way to increase pilgrimage was prestige, though that may have just been in relation to getting it up to significant and not leading...I mean...at least as of a couple turns ago pilgrimage was still entirely internal, not external, so we might "just" be waiting for whatever poitn of prestige makes other civs actually care about our gods? ...or for that matter we might need to actually be less isolationist, and send some trade missions
Conversely it could be more black soil! That's how we discovered milling.
I don't think it's more black soil.
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
But it would give the People more experience with the effects of water pressure and the potential power in it.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It generally depends on what you are doing, but a Take the Crown CB is one where you are explicitly going to be generating prestige from victories. Since the People have mostly fought defensive wars, they generally only gain prestige for certain special events as their primary interest is defending land rather than gaining glory.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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(continuing the joke) some half-exile gets tired of turning the shit and builds himself a wheel with an axle and on the other end of the axle is a sharp stick rising perpendicular to the axle and he has a river. He puts these together and voila have water wheels.
Definite element, humiliate wargoal/casus belli prioritizes Prestige transfer, but I was referring to getting Prestige off simply fighting the Great Horde to a white peace where they had to retreat and we didn't really feel like chasing either.
So add another modifier to prestige transfer, but it's certain that even fighting a more prestigious entity to a draw is worth some prestige. Taking from history, taking a swing at Rome or China and living to tell the tale at all was pretty prestigious in it's own right.
And Thermopylae points to a possibility that if you're outmatched enough, you can gain Prestige even if you Lose Well.
Doesn't quite line up with the costs though? Theres almost nothing where the Wealth cost exceeds the Art generation is there?
Oh well, academic anyways
Probably Trade Missions and higher Religious Authority, assuming the Natural Wonder of the Thunder Speakers and the Great Sacrificial Temple of the Xohyssiri get upgraded at some point in historyI mean...at least as of a couple turns ago pilgrimage was still entirely internal, not external, so we might "just" be waiting for whatever poitn of prestige makes other civs actually care about our gods? ...or for that matter we might need to actually be less isolationist, and send some trade missions
True that, but we WERE winning it by bigger margins than we did against the Great Hordes, while getting less Prestige.