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Paths of Civilization

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Killer_Whale said:
We've had action consolidation before, we're likely to be due for another consolidation soon.
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Direct Word from AN in the past hundred pages says we will be compressing the number of provinces to avoid action bloat soon. He's also said that he's happy having the State have four actions divided between a Main and 2 Secondaries.
 
Academia Nut said:
Hey, ever notice that there are certain voters who dig further into the information, peeling out further information by asking pointed questions so as get more than the initial bit of information (which is still crafted to be sufficient to make an informed vote) and possibly reshape their initial impressions?

And yet I don't impose any sort of vote moratorium because I am of the opinion that unless I make a profound screw up in the presentation of options the initial impressions of voters are just as valid.

Ever wonder if you're all staring at chicken entrails? ;)
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As long as as the complicated votes don't put you off I could care less I guess.

As I mentioned much earlier. We are getting past the BC line even if it kills you!:anger:

Though if you are comparing it too chicken entrails, that could mean that the numbers are nonsense... In which case a whole lot of people are wasting their time in a way I haven't *smug*
BungieONI said:
I was so much simpler when we were just The People In the Hills. /mournful
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Pfft, not even then. I'm talking about when the numbers matter less than the actions. When we helped out because it was right thing to do, rather than the "Econ" it would reward us with. When we felt the sacrifices instead at looking that the cold lifeless numbers.
 
Killer_Whale said:
We've had action consolidation before, we're likely to be due for another consolidation soon.
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BungieONI said:
Direct Word from AN in the past hundred pages says we will be compressing the number of provinces to avoid action bloat soon.
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Yeah, and having it happen while Heroes are in control, during a major period of upheaval, makes a lot of sense--especially if they take distribute land, or integrate part of western wall, or even just do a main enforce justice; any of those are good narrative reasons to take this province list:
Valleyhome, Redshore, Stonepen, Sacred Forest, Northshore, Blackriver, Redhills, Southshore, (Hatriver)
And turn it in to, say:
Valleyshore (Valleyhome + Redshore + Sacred Forest), Blackshore (Northshore+Blackriver), Hatshore (Southshore + Hatriver), Stonepen, Redhills
And depending on where exactly stonepen is relative to redhills, maybe combine those two? Though i think that Stonepen and Redhills might actually be separated by those mostly impassable mountains? @Academia Nut whenever you have the time and energy to update the map, can you include where mountains are impassable, and where the passes are? And maybe some province markers if possible? I remember there was a lot of confusion during the "what military strategy for the nomads?" turn over how the geography actually works, and like i just said, i'm not actually sure where Stonepen is relatively to redhills...
 
Sivantic said:
I'm talking about when the numbers matter less than the actions. When we helped out because it was right thing to do, rather than the "Econ" it would reward us with. When we felt the sacrifices instead at looking that the cold lifeless numbers.
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Yeah, but...if we had done that on this past turn, just voting the way we wanted our civ to behave, we would probably have taken in the maximum number of refugees and immediately destroyed ourselves.
 
Stop: Just like the report queue haha
  • Staff Post
    • McLuvin said:
    More like only breaks if every man woman and child is killed with flame weapons.

    They are like fucking cockroaches except more disgusting
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    just like the report queue haha Advocacy of genocide and referring to an entire populace, fictional or factual as "like fucking cockroaches except more disgusting" are against Rule 2; please don't repeat this kind of behaviour and take 25 points.

    Have a good day.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • BungieONI said:
    Direct Word from AN in the past hundred pages says we will be compressing the number of provinces to avoid action bloat soon. He's also said that he's happy having the State have four actions divided between a Main and 2 Secondaries.
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    We also have had the available choices for actions consolidated too. We use to have to pick which econ expansion type we wanted, step farms, fishing, pastures, etc. But now it's just the single action.
     
    ThrawnCA said:
    Yeah, but...if we had done that on this past turn, just voting the way we wanted our civ to behave, we would probably have taken in the maximum number of refugees and immediately destroyed ourselves.
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    It may not have before we had the numbers, since we did something similar waaaaaay back when on a smaller scale when we were much tinnier.


    *looks up*
     
    Abby Normal said:
    While i can't answer your actual question because its not at all my area of knowledge, i'll note that if the additional rainfall continues to cause major insect problems (and resulting diseases), we should definitely take study alchemy some more, to improve that "primitive insect repellant" in our tech list. It's likely that our iron armor/weapons and our advanced chariots/eventual horseriders would stop being our major advantages in war, and instead it would be our disease prevention and alchemy tech that would be the biggest advantage; an increase in stagnant water/marshes/swamps/etc would make war a lot more focused on "who is killed by the least disease" more than "who can kill the most enemies in combat"...i think at least?
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    Study Alchemy, or study health?
     
    ThrawnCA said:
    Yeah, but...if we had done that on this past turn, just voting the way we wanted our civ to behave, we would probably have taken in the maximum number of refugees and immediately destroyed ourselves.
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    Like we almost did the first time. If you have been here then, would you have voted against it then?

    I suppose the biggest thing is that people have focused much more on the numbers than the narrative. Yes, there are points where people vote for Watsonian reasons, but a lot of the discussion uses numbers for reasons to do much of anything.

    I would have preferred to drop the numbers and charts, but I am sure that is just nostalgia on my part.
     
    Guile said:
    Study Alchemy, or study health?
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    Well, we got the insect repellant from study alchemy, so that at least should be under there. Study health would probably also help; getting basic alchemy and in general having more time pass hopefully means that study health isn't basically capped like it was after we destroyed cholera and got sanitation and rehydration, so...yeah, study health/forest/alchemy all important for the new disease issues...and of course study metal is still important for both actual use of our metal advantage (like our new scale iron armor) and for progressing towards better iron and/or steel
     
    Sivantic said:
    I suppose the biggest thing is that people have focused much more on the numbers than the narrative.
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    I really don't agree with this. Sure, the numbers can definitely sway voters, but we almost never actually minmax our stats. The entire centralization argument is proof about that, since if people only cared about the number like you were suggesting then Distribute Land would be a no brainer.

    We have long, multi page discussions on what each action means, on everything from roads to how to best deal with corruption.

    The only numbers we really pay attention to are the important ones like stability or extremely low stats, which are important to track since they have discernable effects on our civ.

    If anything, I'd say that we focus way more on the narrative than numbers. You can't exactly explain the existence of CA or DS any other way.
     
    Abby Normal said:
    we got the insect repellant from study alchemy
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    We got the insect repellent from Lolwyna spawning. Only Study Stars was taken that turn.
    Academia Nut said:
    Not quite sure what to do, he glanced over at his newest advisor, Lolwyna. A protege among the shamans and priests, the younger astrologer had been instrumental in helping to deal with the biting insects that had become more populous in the wet weather that had become the norm.
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    Now, Lolwyna really liked Alchemy, but I don't think that's enough to say Alchemy is how she managed it.
     
    Candesce said:
    We got the insect repellent from Lolwyna spawning. Only Study Stars was taken that turn.

    Now, Lolwyna really liked Alchemy, but I don't think that's enough to say Alchemy is how she managed it.
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    Ahh, good catch; i was remembering the WoG on what all she did, i think before AN actually updated the tech list with it:
    Academia Nut said:
    refining them into potions and incenses to produce purifying fumes that drive away both insects and demons of disease
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    And my brain went "it was 'potions', right? so that would be alchemy, yeah" :p
     
    I really found it a shame that we did not use our mystic hero to study metal had we done that we possibly would have acquired steel and she would have still been alive but at the same time her dying opened the door for her... Progeny (She really does not deserve to call rulwyna her child) to become king but still steel.
     
    Citino said:
    I really don't agree with this. Sure, the numbers can definitely sway voters, but we almost never actually minmax our stats. The entire centralization argument is proof about that, since if people only cared about the number like you were suggesting then Distribute Land would be a no brainer.

    We have long, multi page discussions on what each action means, on everything from roads to how to best deal with corruption.

    The only numbers we really pay attention to are the important ones like stability or extremely low stats, which are important to track since they have discernable effects on our civ.

    If anything, I'd say that we focus way more on the narrative than numbers. You can't exactly explain the existence of CA or DS any other way.
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    ...

    Sivantic said:
    Yes, there are points where people vote for Watsonian reasons, but a lot of the discussion uses numbers for reasons to do much of anything.
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    My entire point started as comment about the recent attempted formulization of stats in note of what AN said at the very beginning. I never stated it as something occurring from the very beginning.

    Heck, look at the recent vote and how much it is starting to look like the long complicated plan voting from Into the Amber Age.
     
    ThrawnCA said:
    If we had actual numbers indicating how close we were to doom - possibly. It was a risky strategy. I'm happy that we won the gamble, but would probably choose to play it safer.
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    Well if we didn't do that particular action of helping anyone we could, we would probably not have CA as it stands today. That was a foundational moment for us.


    As to the Study Alchemy vs Forest vs Health if I may dip my hat into the pot.

    I think we need to do forest first. It synergizes with our Renewal project, and I think we need more materials from within the forest before Health and Alchemy can be really effective in this particular issue. For example that incense that Gon burned could actually work as insect repellent as well as medicine.

    I agree with the notion that Study Health is probably unlocked again, it's been a while since we bitchslapped cholera, but again we need more things.

    Alchemy helped with soaps, so it is an avenue to more anti-disease tech.

    I figure go Study forests when our actions open up again, then go Study Health + Study Alchemy. That, I hope, will put us on the very early path to crude medicines and drugs. Essentially really really old Chinese mixed herbal and mineral medicines. Basically guide Study Alchemy towards health effects using Study Health.

    Not the best by a long shot but there are some gems in there to be found.
     
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    BungieONI said:
    As to the Study Alchemy vs Forest vs Health if I may dip my hat into the pot.
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    In context, "study forests" could be read as "study insects" or "study environment" - it's about figuring out where the insect swarms are coming from, and what natural defenses against them might already exist.

    Study health is about what can be done for people who've already caught the disease - cure or amelioration rather than prevention.

    Study alchemy is about finding new and exotic substances that may well have health implications.
     
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