I've been assuming snowflake or a Mariclone will serve as sentry while hidden via CotR. They can sound the alarm via MARS or dispelling.
That one spec-ops pangolin might also cut it, they probably have better non-ninjutsu stealth options, which is better vs Itachi, but won't automatically sound the alarm when dispelled, so mixed bag.

Another advantage of having a CotR useing SC as a sentry is that they are really well positioned for assassination work while the Akatsuki pair probes our defences. Assassin!Snowflake could kill Deidara outright.
I have a pet rune project I'd like to work on that would solve this problem among others, but I agree that Shadow Clone sentries are a workable solution in the meantime.

e: The project in question:

Hazou's Runic Chakrascape Array
Elements: 6+2+1
Duration: 30 days

The 6 extra elements of this array are placed equidistant from the central one on a horizontal plane, the 2 on a vertical plane, up to three miles away. This detects from three miles away the size and direction of chakra signatures and sends the information back to the primary rune that functions as a display. This serves to give information on ingress of chakra sources and their sizes, whether beast or ninja. The central rune may (or may not) be capable of collating information from separate sets of the extra elements.

This provides, at maximum, a geoscape of 6 miles radius from the center rune.

(This runic array may actually be separate runes for the senders and receivers, if easier, but is billed as one for the purposes of ease of description)
 
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I'm very open to more suggestions. Redundancy is good, and Itachi's stupid chakra-sight and S-rank alertness are such a pain.
"Next up, this is an alarm seal so basic it doesn't even have a name. Normally I wouldn't bother handing these out, because in Leaf even a beginner in sealcrafting knows a dozen variations of something so primitive."

Kagome-sensei flinched.

"Set it up with your standard trap systems. When the enemy trips it, it wails at moderate shouting volume for two seconds and then shuts off. Twelve-hour duration or until triggered.
Proximity-based versions of this. Install them via HLaM so there's no sign of them from the surface.
 
I have a pet rune project I'd like to work on that would solve this problem among others, but I agree that Shadow Clone sentries are a workable solution in the meantime.
I'm worried your rune proposal might have to be an array with runes along the perimeter to get the kind of area you want, and don't want to leave runes exposed for the enemy to find/examine(even if we bury then, Itachi will notice the chakra field and might track down the runes)

Also seems like it might have a hard time getting enough range because of the chakra-diffusion limit.

Not that I don't want to test it, but I am skeptical and we have a lot of projects. Still, runes do break/bend some rules...
 
I'm worried your rune proposal might have to be an array with runes along the perimeter to get the kind of area you want, and don't want to leave runes exposed for the enemy to find/examine(even if we bury then, Itachi will notice the chakra field and might track down the runes)

Also seems like it might have a hard time getting enough range because of the chakra-diffusion limit.

Not that I don't want to test it, but I am skeptical and we have a lot of projects. Still, runes do break/bend some rules...
Oh, it absolutely would. The unstated intention here is to use them with Oro's OPSEC seals, which also have a duration of a month.
 
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Itachi sees Chakra, so he'd detect the trigger zone.


Itachi sees chakra, so chakra-bassed steal is a no-go
If Anti-Byakugan Seals exist, we could make an Anti-Sharingan Rune, right?

...One that inflicts Blindness when its protected area is gazed upon. Permanently. Have Itachi roll Physique to not lose his magic eyeballs, something tells me its not his highest skill.
 
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I'd prefer to make this work without the array if we can. But an array would be acceptable if we couldn't figure out any other way to do it.
The Array is largely intended to just -- expand the radius, chakra diffusion problem and all. It'll get us some extra time to respond. e: That is to say, I'd be fine with that.
Itachi sees chakra, so chakra-bassed steal is a no-go
Itachi sees chakra when he's using his sharingan, which (presumably, at least) uses chakra to use. It seems unlikely for him to have it on in particular when three miles out from us when he and Hidan only just crossed the threshold at which Hidan can locate us.
 
The Sharingan cannot see chakra; you're thinking of the Byakugan.
They both see chakra, at least in canon.
naruto.fandom.com

Sharingan

The Sharingan (写輪眼, literally meaning: Copy Wheel Eye, meaning (Viz): Mirror Wheel Eye) is the dōjutsu kekkei genkai of the Uchiha clan that appears selectively among its members.[1] It is regarded as one of the "Three Great Dōjutsu", the others being the Byakugan and the Rinnegan.[2] While its...
 
They both see chakra, at least in canon.
naruto.fandom.com

Sharingan

The Sharingan (写輪眼, literally meaning: Copy Wheel Eye, meaning (Viz): Mirror Wheel Eye) is the dōjutsu kekkei genkai of the Uchiha clan that appears selectively among its members.[1] It is regarded as one of the "Three Great Dōjutsu", the others being the Byakugan and the Rinnegan.[2] While its...
Back when we had Neji and Sasuke observe the Rift, they could both spot the space where it closed but while the Byakugan could do it easily, the Sharingan struggled, giving Neji reasons to gloat over his eyeball superiority. But yes, they both see chakra, though it seems to only be a secondary feature of the latter.
 
They both see chakra, at least in canon.
naruto.fandom.com

Sharingan

The Sharingan (写輪眼, literally meaning: Copy Wheel Eye, meaning (Viz): Mirror Wheel Eye) is the dōjutsu kekkei genkai of the Uchiha clan that appears selectively among its members.[1] It is regarded as one of the "Three Great Dōjutsu", the others being the Byakugan and the Rinnegan.[2] While its...
They both see chakra in MfD, too. We brought Sasuke and a random Hyuuga on a mission with us to the Rift to see if it was closing, and they both described being able to see chakra (though the Hyuuga was able to see more, since they were a jonin who had specialized in that direction, whereas Sasuke was, at the time, a chunnin).
 
"Asuma likes you, Hazō. Did you know that?"

"Uh...thank you? I mean...I wasn't sure one way or the other. I didn't think he disliked me, but...I guess I had worried..."

"Yeah, well, he does. He also says you're a decent fighter and an excellent sealmaster."

"Thank you?"

"I'm very confident that there is no surviving Lord of the Archaeopteryx clan, but I can't completely dismiss the possibility. So, I'm going to check. I'm going to be completely focused for a time and I can't afford distractions. I want you to set up a perimeter, then stand back and watch for threats. If it's an Archaeopteryx, leave it be. If it's anything else, handle it with extreme prejudice. Got that?"

"Yes sir."

"Good. How long do you need?"

"I can do a very basic perimeter immediately around this area in about fifteen minutes, but it will be thin. The smallest competent perimeter would take me an hour, maybe two. After that, the more time you want to give me the better I can make it."
@eaglejarl @Paperclipped @Velorien
How relevant is the trapmaking skill to a sealmaster's ability to set up a defensive perimeter?
@eaglejarl @Paperclipped @Velorien
Just following up, thanks.
 
Chapter 644: The King and ALL the Gorram Questions

"Sir," Hazō said. "If this is an impertinent question please feel free to wave me off, but I'm curious. If chakra is the thoughts and remains of the kami, how does it interact with the Seventh Path? You and the other Clan Rulers have some sort of bond with your territory. I saw Lord Enma claim a small bit of territory on the island of the Archaeopteryx, and I have heard Cannai talk about taking territory from other rulers, so clearly that isn't a static connection. I'm guessing that's some kind of chakra effect, but what specifically? How does it work?"

"HHHHMMMMMMMMMM." The Turtle King's hmm echoed forth, skipping across the waves like a thrown stone. "THE LORD—OR LADY—IS THE LAND, SUMMONER. THE LAND IS THE LORD OR LADY."

"Right, but...how?"

"IF THAT DIDN'T MAKE SENSE, I'M AFRAID I DON'T KNOW HOW TO EXPLAIN IT BETTER."

"I've seen you do things—not you you, mostly Cannai. When he's in the mood, Dog Territory ripples around him. He—"

"'WHEN HE IS IN THE MOOD'? HO HO HO! YOU ANGERED YOUR CLAN LORD, DIDN'T YOU? CANNAI ALWAYS STRUCK ME AS ONE OF THE CALMER AMONG US. YOU MUST HAVE DONE SOMETHING MOST IMPRESSIVE."

"...No comment. Still, he moves ridiculously fast when he wants to. He fades in and out of view—Lord Kumafuwafuwa does that too, and let me tell you how alarming it is to have a bear the size of a small house appear from nowhere a few feet behind you. How do you all do that?"

"DO YOU FIND IT DIFFICULT TO MAKE YOUR LEFT HAND APPEAR NEXT TO YOUR RIGHT? WHEN YOU TELL YOUR FOOT TO BE SOMEWHERE OTHER THAN IT IS, DOES IT RESPOND WITH YOUTHFUL SPEED OR DOES IT LOLLYGAG ALONG LIKE A DECREPIT ANCIENT BEFORE ANSWERING YOUR COMMAND?"

"Wait, are you saying that you are literally the land? That your body is a...shadow, that you manifest wherever you please? Like the way Earthshaping allows me to generate a statue anywhere within its area of effect without needing to actually walk over and sculpt the thing by hand."

"THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID."

"But—"

"BUT IT IS NOT ENTIRELY WRONG, EITHER."

"You're saying—"

"AND ALSO NOT ENTIRELY RIGHT."

Hazō closed his mouth and gave King Kamehameha a narrow-eyed look.

"YOU HAD OTHER QUESTIONS?"

Hazō pondered that. He still didn't understand this 'the Lord is the Land' thing, but it might be better to let it go and think on what he'd heard, then come back to it later. He wasn't sure how long Kamehameha's patience was, and it was likely better not to irritate him by continuing to pick at something that he had already been told couldn't be explained better.

"Okay, moving on. You mentioned twelve 'other' kinds of chakra aside from human and nature. This is the first time I've heard about these. Can you tell me more about them?"

"YES."

"Would you please tell me about them?"

"OF COURSE!"

Hazō sighed. "You're going to do that thing where you answer questions very exactly and literally, all the time pretending you don't understand basic idioms, aren't you?"

"WOULD SOMEONE AS YOUTHFUL AS MYSELF DO SUCH A THING?"

"In one beat of that comically oversized heart of yours." He caught himself. "Uh...respectfully. Sir."

"HO HO HO! SUCH A BITING TONGUE ON YOU, YOUNG DOG! CANNAI MUST ENJOY YOUR COMPANY TO NO END!"

"Fine. Please tell what the fourteen kinds of chakra are."

"ALL THIS TALK OF CHAKRA IS SO DULL! SO MANY QUESTIONS...I SHALL HAVE TO COMPLAIN TO CANNAI THAT THE DOG SUMMONER HAS BEEN HOUNDING ME!" He paused and his head turned very slightly as though he were trying to see Hazō from the corner of his eye.

"Yes, I got the pun," Hazō sighed. "You and Cannai must get along incredibly well."

"HO HO HO!"

"Fine, fine, I'll stop bothering you." Hazō started to pull himself out of his sling seat, only to pause when the Turtle King's voice boomed out once more.

"I NEVER SAID I WAS BOTHERED BY THE HOUNDING, YOUNG SUMMONER! YOUR QUESTIONS ARE THE SIGN OF A MOST YOUTHFUL MIND!"

"So you will tell me about the fourteen kinds of chakra?"

"A MOST YOUTHFUL YET VERY SINGLE-PATHED MIND!"

"I honestly can't tell...is that a 'yes, I will tell you' or a 'no, I am having way too much fun messing with you to actually provide useful answers'?"

"AH, POOR ME. HERE IS POOR KING KAMEHAMEHA, SHARING HIS ANCIENT KNOWLEDGE WITH THE YOUTH. DISPENSING WISDOM AND SECRET LORE FROM ALL FOUR FLIPPERS! VAST IS HIS EXPERIENCE, WIDE HIS LIST OF SUBJECTS, YET ALWAYS IT IS CHAKRA, CHAKRA, CHAKRA! NEVER ANY YOUTHFUL VARIANCE, ONLY THE STAID AND STOLID STOMPING OF THE AGED, THE NIGH-SENESCENT!"

"...You're saying that you're tired of talking about chakra and I should change the subject?"

"I SAID NO SUCH THING!"

Hazō glared grumpily at the massive turtle. Then his eyes narrowed. "Hang on. Are there actually fourteen kinds of chakra, or were you pranking me and now you're dancing around the subject because if I keep pressing it's going to make your prank fall apart?"

"I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU MEAN, SUMMONER! WHAT IS THIS 'PRANKING' OF WHICH YOU SPEAK?"

"...You know what? Fine, let's change the subject. We started off talking about the Dragons; the Toad Sages once called them 'Externals', and Orochimaru says that they don't have chakra. Do you know anything about either of those things?"

"I AM AWARE OF THE EXISTENCE OF EXTERNALS, OF COURSE. BEINGS FROM OUTSIDE OF EVERYTHING."

"I call it the Paint," Hazō said. "The world, I mean. It's like a thin coat of paint on top of madness and chaos. The Dragons come from the other side of the Paint?"

"A MOST CREATIVE METAPHOR! AND A SURPRISINGLY ACCURATE ONE! YES, ALTHOUGH THE COSMOS IS NOT FLAT LIKE THE CANVASES OF HUMAN PATH PAINTERS. ITS SURFACE WIGGLES AND WIBBLES ABOUT LIKE AN INDECISIVE HATCHLING CAUGHT BETWEEN TWO TREATS! NONETHELESS, IT IS FAIR TO DESCRIBE REALITY AS PAINT OVER THE WAVING SANDS OF TIME!"

"And the Dragons come from beyond it?"

"INDEED!"

"Is there anything else out there that we need to worry about?" He wasn't going to explicitly mention Jashin, at least not out the gate.

"THAT WE NEED TO WORRY ABOUT? NO."

"...You're doing that thing where you interpret my words unhelpfully literally, aren't you? Implying that 'we' don't need to worry about it because you are an incredibly powerful Clan Lord and so it's not a threat to you, but I need to worry about it because I'm a squishy young human?"

"HO HO HO!"

"Allow me to rephrase. Are there any other entities outside of reality aside from the Dragons?"

"MANY! HAVE NO FEAR, THEY CANNOT ENTER THE SEVENTH PATH."

"As a reminder, I'm not from the Seventh Path."

"AH! A MOST YOUTHFULLY SALIENT POINT!"

"Can those many entities enter the Human Path?"

"HMMMMMM...DIFFICULT TO SAY. WORDS, WORDS...WORDS. SO CONFINING! SO LIMITING! EVEN THOUGH I GATHER UP THE LAST MORSEL OF YOUTH WITHIN MY FRAME, STILL I CANNOT CONJURE FORTH PRECISION."

"Could you try? Maybe skip over the precision and give me a general picture?"

"SURELY YOU DON'T WANT ME TO GIVE YOU UNTRUTH WRAPPED IN THE GUISE OF AUTHORITY? IT WOULD BE MOST—"

"Unyouthful, yes, I'm sure. I pinky-promise that I won't overcommit, that I'll keep in mind that what you say might be incomplete, that there are probably things you don't know—"

"THINGS I DON'T KNOW?! ARE YOU ACCUSING ME, KING KAMEHAMEHA, ELDEST TURTLE, LORD OF THE SHELLED, OF BEING IGNORANT?! A TINY LITTLE HUMAN, BARELY AN ADULT EVEN BY THE MAYFLY STANDARDS OF YOUR PEOPLE, INSULTS ME IN ALL MY MAJESTY EVEN WHILE RIDING ON MY NECK? HOW DARE YOU!"

Hazō's stomach clenched involuntarily, but he made himself pause before reacting. He took a breath, then another, and forced himself to be rooted in his body. The sun was blazing down, the wind of their passage was heavy on his face, making his hair whip around in his eyes and tickle his ears. He sat in a leather sling, feet dangling hundreds of feet above sun-dappled waves and a bow wake taller than he was. He leaned back against the pebbly, leathery skin of the largest turtle in the cosmos, a being so huge and so ancient that other Clan Bosses rode on his shell. A being with a voice like an earthquake. A voice that was now rumbling forth in fragments of boulders that skipped and bounced across the waves of what seemed an endless ocean.

"King Kamehameha...are you giggling?"

"HO HO HO! PERHAPS"—he had to break off as another snicker pealed forth—"PERHAPS A LITTLE. YOU WILL FIND, YOUNG HAZŌ, THAT AS YOU AGE YOU HAVE NEW EXPERIENCES AND RECEIVE NEW INFORMATION. IF ONE IS FORTUNATE, SOME FRACTION OF THAT ENORMOUS NUMBER OF EXPERIENCES WILL DISTILL THEMSELVES DOWN INTO A DROP OF WISDOM. THE FIRST DROP THAT ONE SHOULD ATTEMPT TO GATHER IS A CERTAIN SENSE OF HUMILITY REGARDING ONE'S OWN LACK OF KNOWLEDGE, LACK OF EXPERIENCE, AND, MOST ESPECIALLY, LACK OF WISDOM."

"Uh-huh."

"THE SECOND DROP, HOWEVER, SHOULD BE THE IMPORTANCE OF FINDING YOUTHFUL HUMOR WHEREVER ONE CAN."

"Including at the expense of naive young humans?"

"CONSIDER IT ONE MORE EXPERIENCE TOWARDS YOUR FIRST DROP! THE FIRST DROP IS, AFTER ALL, THE MOST IMPORTANT DROP!"

"Right. Yes, thank you for that important life lesson, sir. Now, I was saying that I will keep in mind that language is imprecise and can't always convey every nuance of complex subjects and that there are many other caveats regarding the questions I've been asking you. I will also stipulate that I'm not going to hold anything you do or don't say, intimate, imply, hint at, fail to hint at, subtly gesture towards, or in any other way bring into this conversation, against you or allow it to reduce the level of reverence in which I hold you."

"I NOTE YOU DID NOT SPECIFY THAT IT WAS A HIGH LEVEL OF REVERENCE, MY MOST YOUTHFUL INTERLOCUTOR!"

"With all of those caveats out of the way," Hazō said, rolling quickly by the turtle's perceptive comment, "could you— No, wait. No idioms. Right. Okay, please answer the following question: can the beings from outside our cosmos, which I will from now on refer to as 'Externals' unless you— Nope, trying again. Does there exist a creature that is currently outside our cosmos that is capable of entering the Human Path?" He paused for the answer, then hastened to add, "Anything other than the Dragons, which may or may not have the ability and I would like to discuss that later."

"HO HO HO! MY FOURTEENTH-GONE SUMMONER WAS A WOMAN NAMED KOU. SHE WAS A WISE WOMAN AMONG HER PEOPLE, HER JOB TO ADJUDICATE DISPUTES, TEACH THE YOUNG, AND CARE FOR THE SOULS OF HER TRIBE. SHE TOO HAD LEARNED TO SPEAK IN CAREFUL PHRASINGS THAT TWISTED BACK UPON THEMSELVES AS DO YOURS." His sigh was epic and long-drawn. "I MISS YOUNG KOU! AND OLD KOU, FOR THAT MATTER. SHE DIED AT NINETY-SEVEN! CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT? NINETY-SEVEN! BARELY A HATCHLING!"

Hazō waited in respectful silence, praying that the conversation was not going to drift into fond memories of someone long dead before Hazō's great-grandfather was born.

"HMMMM...I SUPPOSE SOMEONE AS YOUTHFUL AS YOURSELF WOULD PREFER TO FOCUS ON THE FUTURE INSTEAD OF LISTENING TO AN OLD TURTLE WANDER THROUGH FOND MEMORIES OF A SUMMONER LONG DEAD BEFORE YOUR GREAT-GREAT-GRANDFATHER WAS BORN."

Hazō swallowed nervously; the people of the Seventh Path communicated mind-to-mind across the 'gestalt field', whatever that was. Their voices usually had all the same characteristics of verbal speech, but he did find himself wondering if perhaps a Clan Lord could hear his surface thoughts as well as simply transmitting his own.

"WHAT WERE WE TALKING ABOUT?"

"I was, uh, I was asking if there are any entities from beyond the cosmos who are capable of reaching the Human Path."

"AH, YES! I WOULD EXPECT SO. MANY, IN FACT. THE WASHERMAN HAS REACHED OUT TO YOUR PATH MANY TIMES. I KNOW OF ONE OCCASION WHEN THE UNKIND ONE SPOKE TO A HUMAN, AND THAT IS ONLY THE ONE I AM CERTAIN OF. I HAVE HEARD MANY TALES THAT HINT AT OTHERS."

"'The Washerman'? What is that?"

"IT WASHES THE SOULS OF THE DEAD AND GUIDES THEM BACK ALONG THE PATH OF REINCARNATION. A MOST DUTIFUL BEING FROM ALL THAT I HAVE HEARD, DEDICATED TO ITS TASK AND EAGER TO PERFORM IT. WHY IT TAKES ON THIS DUTY OR HOW IT DOES IT, I HAVE NO IDEA. I AM REPORTING ONLY WHAT VARIOUS SUMMONERS HAVE TOLD ME OR BROUGHT TO ME IN BOOKS AND SCROLLS, AND WHAT THE MASTERS OF MY OWN WORLD HAVE LEARNED OVER THE CENTURIES."

"How does it enter my world?"

"NOT PHYSICALLY, IF THAT IS YOUR CONCERN. IT INFLUENCES EVENTS IN SMALL WAYS—THE FALL OF A STONE THAT SETS OFF A LANDSLIDE, A GLINT OF SUN THAT DISTRACTS A WARRIOR AT A CRITICAL MOMENT, THAT SORT OF THING. AND, OF COURSE, IT SPEAKS TO SOME OF YOU."

"It speaks to humans?!"

"CERTAIN HUMANS ARE BORN WITH MINDS THAT DWELL CLOSE TO WHAT YOU CALL THE PAINT. THE WASHERMAN AND ITS BRETHREN CAN SOMETIMES WHISPER TO THESE VULNERABLE SOULS IN DREAMS OR MOMENTS OF DISTRACTION. SO FAR AS I KNOW, THEY CANNOT PROVIDE CLEAR WORDS, ONLY HINTS AND NUDGES. STILL, THE WORLDS ARE WIDE AND THINGS CHANGE IN THE FULLNESS OF TIME. PERHAPS THEY ARE NOW CAPABLE OF LONG CHATS BY THE FIRESIDE AND EXCHANGES OF POETRY."

"That's a joke, right? Beings from the Out aren't really interested in poetry so far as you know, right?"

"HO HO HO! I HAVE NO REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE, NO. TO RETURN TO THE EARLIER TOPIC, THE WASHERMAN'S GOALS ARE WIDELY AGREED UPON, BUT IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT THESE BEINGS ARE NO MORE INTERESTED IN OUR AFFAIRS THAN YOU ARE INTERESTED IN THAT OF A NEW FRY. THE FRY CONSIDERS ITSELF THE CENTER OF ITS OWN UNIVERSE AND IT CARES VERY MUCH ABOUT THE SOURCES OF FOOD AROUND IT, THE TEMPERATURE OF THE WATER, AND THE ARRANGEMENT OF THE ROCKS IN WHICH IT HIDES. IF YOU WADE PAST AND TEAR UP THE KELP THAT IT WAS FEEDING UPON, YOU ARE NOT DOING IT BECAUSE YOU HATE THE FRY AND WISH TO HARM IT. YOU LIKELY ARE NOT EVEN DOING IT BECAUSE YOU WISH TO EAT THE SAME THING THAT THE FRY WAS EATING. YOU ARE PERHAPS WEEDING YOUR KOI POND, OR COLLECTING SEAWEED TO USE AS A SCENT FOR YOUR SAUNA. IF YOU ALSO SCATTER THE ROCKS IN WHICH IT HIDES, YOU ARE NOT DOING IT BECAUSE YOU WISH TO DESTROY THE FRY'S SHELTER; MOST LIKELY YOU SIMPLY BUMPED THE ROCKS BY MISTAKE. ASCRIBING GOALS TO THE BEINGS FROM BEYOND YOUR 'PAINT' IS CHALLENGING AND FRAUGHT WITH PERIL."

"You ascribed a goal to the Washerman...?"

"INDEED! THAT ONE, I AM RELATIVELY CONFIDENT OF. IT HAS MADE ENOUGH IMPRESSIONS ON YOUR WORLD THAT MANY OF THEM HAVE TRICKLED BACK TO ME OVER THE CENTURIES AND THEY PAINT A CONSISTENT PICTURE. FOR ITS BRETHREN, THINGS ARE FAR LESS CERTAIN. THE BEST THEORY I KNOW REGARDING THE UNKIND ONE IS THAT IT ENJOYS RANDOMNESS AND CHANGE. IT REACHES INTO THE HUMAN PATH IN ORDER TO CAUSE AS MUCH CHANGE AS POSSIBLE, BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM TO CARE WHAT THE CHANGE IS OR HOW IT AFFECTS THOSE THAT LIVE THERE."

"What kind of changes?"

"A SMALL LANDSLIDE ALTERS THE COURSE OF A RIVER, LEAVING HUMANS TO STARVE IN A DROUGHT AND FLOODING OTHERS OUT. SHADOWS MOVING IN STRANGE WAYS STARTLE AN ANIMAL, CAUSING IT TO FLEE INTO THE WOODS WHERE IT ENCOUNTERS THE TRAIL OF SOME HUMANS. THE ANIMAL WAS ALREADY HUNGRY SO IT FOLLOWS THE HUMANS BACK TO THEIR HOMES. IT KILLS AND EATS, THEN RETURNS AND FETCHES ITS PACK IN ORDER THAT THEY MAY KILL AND EAT. YOU NOTE THAT I DESCRIBE THESE THINGS IN TERMS OF HOW THEY AFFECT HUMANS, BUT THE UNKIND ONE MAY WELL NOT CARE ABOUT THAT. IT MAY HAVE DIVERTED THE RIVER SIMPLY BECAUSE THE NEW COURSE IS MORE AESTHETICALLY PLEASING. IT MAY NOT EVEN BE AWARE THAT HUMANS EXIST."

"Is everything it does harmful? If it's causing randomness, surely it must be helpful sometimes?"

"OF COURSE! THE RIVER THAT CHANGES COURSE WILL WATER SOME FIELDS THAT WERE IN NEED. THE DICE THAT FALL DIFFERENTLY WILL EARN DESPERATELY-NEEDED FUNDS FOR A MAN ON THE EDGE OF STARVATION. THOSE THINGS HAPPEN, BUT THERE ARE FAR MORE PATHS TO WOE THAN WEAL. IF ONE TAKES ACTION WITHOUT PLAN OR PURPOSE, IT IS FAR MORE LIKELY YOU WILL CAUSE HARM THAN GIVE HELP."

"True." He thought on that. "Speaking of which, have you heard the name 'Jashin' before? There is a man named Hidan who worships him as a god. Jashin wants him to kill as many people as possible, and helps him with special abilities and sometimes even guides him to targets. He, uh, he also seems to have adopted me as his other High Priest, except he wants to support my Uplift goals so that the population can increase and there can be as many people as possible for Hidan to murder."

"THAT SOUNDS LIKE A MOST UNCOMFORTABLE POSITION TO BE IN! YOU HAVE MY SYMPATHIES, YOUNG SUMMONER. I REGRET TO SAY THAT I HAVE NOT HEARD THE NAME."

"Rats. Okay, thank you. So the beings from beyond the Paint—is it okay if I call them 'Externals' or does that mean something else?"

"IT SEEMS LIKE A VERY SERVICEABLE WORD."

"Great, thank you. So the Externals can't reach into the Seventh Path but they can reach into the Human Path to a limited degree. They can influence the motion of shadows and small objects, plus they can influence a person's dreams or give them ideas. They can't directly talk to humans as far as you know. Is that right?"

"INDEED! ALTHOUGH MY KNOWLEDGE OF THE EXTERNALS IS MERELY A DABBLER'S FANCY THAT I HAVE NOT ESPECIALLY PURSUED IN...OH, A CENTURY OR SO. I HAVE HEARD MANY TALES OF THEM, MOST OF WHICH ARE LIKELY TO BE NONSENSE OR SHEER FANTASY. I DO SUSPECT THERE OF BEING FAR MORE THAN THE ONES I AM AWARE OF."

"There are five clans on the Human Path, each of them with a special bloodline that helps them think better, or at least differently. One of them, the Mori, seems to be connected to some sort of otherworldly being. Their gift is optimization, and when they want to optimize a plan they will reach out to 'the Ice'—that's what they call it—and come back with objections and corrections. Is it possible that the Ice is an External?"

"IN MY LIFE, I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE, EVEN THOSE THAT APPEAR UTTERLY IMPOSSIBLE OR EVEN CONTRADICTORY."

That...did not seem right. No matter what happened, there would never be a married bachelor or a square triangle. Still, Hazō wasn't about to bring that up.

"Do you know of any way to fight against Externals, or to keep them from reaching into the Human Path?"

"IT SOUNDS TO ME AS THOUGH YOUR PATH WOULD BE QUITE DISRUPTED WERE THE EXTERNALS NOT ABLE TO REACH IN. THESE FIVE CLANS WOULD LOSE THEIR POWERS. THIS 'HIDAN' WOULD LOSE HIS GOD."

"Hidan losing his god would be the most brilliant thing ever," Hazō said fervently. "Hidan murders people constantly. He's evil."

"HMMMM..."

Hazō waited.

"'EVIL' IS A COMPLICATED THING, YOUNG SUMMONER. A COMPLICATED AND MOST UNYOUTHFUL THING. IT IS ALL TOO EASY TO ASCRIBE THAT WORD TO ONE'S ENEMIES, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY DESERVE IT. I HAVE NOTICED THAT THE WORD 'EVIL' IS USED LESS AND LESS OFTEN AS ONE LEARNS MORE AND MORE ABOUT A PERSON OR SITUATION."

"...You are not seriously—" Hazō broke off and forced himself to breathe. "King Kamehameha, are you suggesting that murdering random civilians for no reason is not an evil action? Hidan doesn't confine himself to killing bad people, or to worthy enemies, or even to grownups. He murders whoever happens to be nearby when he's trying to fill his quota."

"DOES HE TORTURE THEM?"

"Well...no. He just cuts them in half with his weird scythe."

"IF HE KILLS QUICKLY AND PAINLESSLY THEN HE IS NOT SEEKING TO DO EVIL FOR THE SAKE OF EVIL. HE HAS A PURPOSE AND WHAT HE THINKS IS A VALID REASON FOR WHAT HE DOES. THE REASON MAY BE A BAD ONE, HIS PURPOSE MIGHT BE A BAD ONE, AND HE IS MOST DEFINITELY LACKING IN YOUTH. DESPITE THAT, I URGE YOU NOT TO APPLY THE LABEL 'EVIL'. IT IS A BOX THAT TRAPS THOUGHTS. ONCE AN OPPONENT IS DETERMINED TO BE EVIL THERE IS NO NEED TO ATTEMPT TO UNDERSTAND THEM. UNDERSTANDING ONE'S OPPONENT IS THE BEST WAY, AND OFTEN THE ONLY WAY, TO SECURE VICTORY OVER THEM. I ASSUME THIS HIDAN IS POWERFUL?"

"Extremely. Plus, he's a member of Akatsuki, a group of S-rank ninja who have been terrorizing the world for years. Neji hasn't briefed you on all this?"

"I WILL SAY ONLY THAT YOUNG NEJI IS USUALLY TOO BUSY FOR LONG DISCUSSIONS ABOUT POLITICS AND CURRENT EVENTS WITH HIS MONARCH." A (relatively) soft 'HO HO HO' skipped across the waves as Kamehameha laughed privately about some joke he hadn't spoken.

"I see. Well, Akatsuki is made up of Uchiha Itachi, Konan, Deidara, Sasori, Hidan, and Hoshigaki Kisame. Their leader was Nagato, who called himself Pain. These people are missing-nin from a variety of villages, but they are so powerful that no one even tries to hunt them down. They kidnapped the nine jinchūriki and used them as fuel to do a ritual that would have...well, we don't know. Somehow reshaped humanity in order to prevent war, we think. It might have involved connecting everyone's minds together so that we could each feel what everyone else was feeling? The Kage of all five Hidden Villages went to stop them, bringing along an army of jōnin, several other S-rank ninja, and the Toad Sages. They barely squeaked out a win, and most of them died in the process. Nagato agreed to shut the ritual down safely so long as he could sacrifice his own life to resurrect his companions. He did, he died, they left. Hidan is one of those people."

"I SEE WHY YOU FIND HIS GOALS ESPECIALLY DISTURBING, GIVEN HIS POWER AND THAT OF HIS ASSOCIATES."

"Yup. We're still trying to figure out what that ritual was supposed to do exactly. There's a word I've stumbled across, 'ninshū'. I've seen some references that make me think maybe it has something to do with connecting people mentally. Then there's the aura that jōnin all seem to get, which allows them to project their feelings onto others. Could that have been the basis for Pain's ritual?"

"A MOST YOUTHFUL QUESTION, YOUNG SUMMONER! YOU CERTAINLY DO FIND INTERESTING TOPICS—NO ONE HAS ASKED ME ABOUT MENTAL CONNECTION SINCE, OH, LONG BEFORE THE BIRTH OF YOUR LINE. YOU ASK ME IF I HAVE HEARD OF THIS 'NINSHŪ'?"

"Allow me to rephrase," Hazō said quickly. "Because I know how this conversation goes. Please, King Kamehameha, if the nature and mechanics of ninjshū and slash or jōnin aura are something I shouldn't know then please tell me so I can stop asking. If you don't mind me knowing about them, please tell me whatever you are comfortable sharing."

"HO HO HO! A MOST CLEVER PHRASING, YOUNG HAZŌ. VERY WELL. IN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION—"





Author's Note: Will our hero get an answer? Will he acquire a YOUTHSUIT and become Neji's apprentice and heir to the Turtle Scroll? Tune in next time, same Turtle time, same Turtle channel!

XP AWARD: 2 This update was only a couple hours.

Brevity XP: 0. 377 words

"GM had fun" XP: 0 This had the potential to be super fun but the list of questions was overwhelmingly large and then there were multiple other things on top of it. I kept looking at the clock, then at the progress of the update, then how little of the plan I had covered, and struggling to type faster.

Voting remains closed unless @Velorien or @Paperclipped open it. One or the other of them may want to continue this conversation for Thursday.
 
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So... Another S ranker kill weapon proposal.

You may recall that I proposed the extreme lethality of a large number of small storage seals being triggered on an object that goes fast since they have the same velocity as the seal they came out of (easily turning a large kunai equivalent into 1000x+ the mass in projectiles).

I originally proposed using directional explosives on a 1 kg objects full of storage seals to propel it. However, the new seals potentially have revealed a better way to hyper accelerate a projectile.

If the inertia of a projectile can be increased and then decreased while maintaining it's momentum or kinetic energy, it becomes much easier to get it to high speeds. Do the following:

1. Amplify the inertia as much as possible.
2. Apply strong forces to the object, taking advantage of the fact that it doesn't move while you work on it.
3. Disable the inertia effect and watch its velocity suddenly multiply by something like the amount it's inertia was dampened.

Essentially, you have something like a throwing spear and you throw it with chakra enhanced strength or directional explosives, etc. Then disable the inertia effect and it breaks the sound barrier. (Side note: space guns would be SO much easier if you could get an effect like this in RL).

@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped

If I may ask, is there anything about jumps in velocity if you tear the inertia increasing seal off of an object it's been applied to in the notes or a moving object slowing down immediately? Or from theory, do we have any idea if we would get some sort of conservation of momentum?
 
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Author's Note: Will our hero get an answer? Will he acquire a YOUTHSUIT and become Neji's apprentice and heir to the Turtle Scroll? Tune in next time, same Turtle time, same Turtle channel!
<3

Lovely update, Turtle King is best King, and I enjoyed reading his perspective. His character bleeds from the page, and he has a certain wholesome gravitas that warms your heart. Akane would have adored him, I think, which is the true test of one's moral character.

Spoons still low, but this chapter was a great one. I know it wasn't a joy to write, but it was certainly a joy to read. Thank you <3
 
Author's Note: Will our hero get an answer? Will he acquire a YOUTHSUIT and become Neji's apprentice and heir to the Turtle Scroll? Tune in next time, same Turtle time, same Turtle channel!
I honestly think King Kamehameha is one of my favorite 7th Path characters? I don't think he really outpaces Cannai (Cannai is in a league of his own), but he's probably up there with Spider Wife (though tbh I feel like enjoyment of Kumokugo is mostly a function of antics that happen around the character or adjacent to the character than purely derived from the character's personality).

Even in this update, where he spends a lot of the conversation gently trolling Hazou, he's just great to see interacting on screen. An immensely refreshing change of pace from a lot of other powerful beings in the setting who are more towards the spikier end of things, and definitely leagues above the individuals who just go "I am stronk and you are not, so stop interacting! Give me the thing I want! GRRR! >:c" and all that.
 
"AH, YES! I WOULD EXPECT SO. MANY, IN FACT. THE WASHERMAN HAS REACHED OUT TO YOUR PATH MANY TIMES. I KNOW OF ONE OCCASION WHEN THE UNKIND ONE SPOKE TO A HUMAN, AND THAT IS ONLY THE ONE I AM CERTAIN OF. I HAVE HEARD MANY TALES THAT HINT AT OTHERS."
Ha ha, an entity external to the MfD world that meddles in it called "the Unkind One", is this talking about Velor–
"THE BEST THEORY I KNOW REGARDING THE UNKIND ONE IS THAT IT ENJOYS RANDOMNESS AND CHANGE. IT REACHES INTO THE HUMAN PATH IN ORDER TO CAUSE AS MUCH CHANGE AS POSSIBLE, BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM TO CARE WHAT THE CHANGE IS OR HOW IT AFFECTS THOSE THAT LIVE THERE."

"What kind of changes?"

"A SMALL LANDSLIDE ALTERS THE COURSE OF A RIVER, LEAVING HUMANS TO STARVE IN A DROUGHT AND FLOODING OTHERS OUT. SHADOWS MOVING IN STRANGE WAYS STARTLE AN ANIMAL, CAUSING IT TO FLEE INTO THE WOODS WHERE IT ENCUNTERS THE TRAIL OF SOME HUMANS. THE ANIMAL WAS ALREADY HUNGRY SO IT FOLLOWS THE HUMANS BACK TO THEIR HOMES. IT KILLS AND EATS, THEN RETURNS AND FETCHES ITS PACK IN ORDER THAT THEY MAY KILL AND EAT. YOU NOTE THAT I DESCRIBE THESE THINGS IN TERMS OF HOW THEY AFFECT HUMANS, BUT THE UNKIND ONE MAY WELL NOT CARE ABOUT THAT. IT MAY HAVE DIVERTED THE RIVER SIMPLY BECAUSE THE NEW COURSE IS MORE AESTHETICALLY PLEASING. IT MAY NOT EVEN BE AWARE THAT HUMANS EXIST."
–ien. What the hell, I thought I was kidding. Ami:The Unkind One::Hidan:The Washerman? That's what's wrong with her! That's why she's so abnormally capable, and capable of rewriting the setting at her whims!

Oh, and the Washerman is obviously Jashin. Confirms my theories that His goal/role/purpose is to transfer souls between Paths, and that He wants to maximize the flow of souls (rather than send all souls to a specific Path – which is why He would be very happy about resurrection).
 
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"IF HE KILLS QUICKLY AND PAINLESSLY THEN HE IS NOT SEEKING TO DO EVIL FOR THE SAKE OF EVIL. HE HAS A PURPOSE AND WHAT HE THINKS IS A VALID REASON FOR WHAT HE DOES. THE REASON MAY BE A BAD ONE, HIS PURPOSE MIGHT BE A BAD ONE, AND HE IS MOST DEFINITELY LACKING IN YOUTH. DESPITE THAT, I URGE YOU NOT TO APPLY THE LABEL 'EVIL'. IT IS A BOX THAT TRAPS THOUGHTS. ONCE AN OPPONENT IS DETERMINED TO BE EVIL THERE IS NO NEED TO ATTEMPT TO UNDERSTAND THEM. UNDERSTANDING ONE'S OPPONENT IS THE BEST WAY, AND OFTEN THE ONLY WAY, TO SECURE VICTORY OVER THEM. I ASSUME THIS HIDAN IS POWERFUL?"
We should respect how people wish to identify!
Fun fact: in Japanese, "Jashin" literally means "wicked god", and is a category rather than an individual. In other words, based on the very limited canon evidence we have, Jashin-sama is essentially the anthropomorphic (deimorphic?) representation of evil as interpreted by Hidan, as opposed to a deity with its own mythos and historical roots.
 
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I think there is a solid chance that Jashin and the Unkind One are the same entity. My thoughts:
  1. If Jashin were a separate External alongside the Washerman and the Unkind One that regularly interacted with reality, it seems a little odd that Kamehameha never heard of him.
  2. "Jashin" literally means "evil god", which is plausibly linguistically downstream from "unkind one"
  3. It would still make sense for Hazou to have Jashin's favour if Jashin is really the Unkind One and seeks great change instead of birth and death. Hazou, championing Uplift, is one of the greatest agents of change in the world.
Something we must remember is that we are learning about Jashin through Hidan's lens, and Hidan is not what I would call a reliable narrator. From what we've seen he seems ready and willing to take his prophetic dreams and such and run with them based on whatever his gut feels they mean, which means I could easily see him interpreting the Unkind One (which he knows as Jashin) as a being that seeks people being murdered, since that seems to be what Hidan wants to do anyways.

And at the risk of fitting evidence to a hypothesis post-facto, it always did feel a little cludgy that Jashin has a "birth aspect" as well as a "death aspect". It doesn't not make sense, but it feels more like standard human polytheism (in which you ascribe a variety of domains to your gods because you started worshiping it for different reasons) than what I would expect of a raw primordial being from beyond the cosmos. Of course, a Jashin that primarily seeks death still has reason to seek birth instrumentally, but Hidan seems inclined to make it an out-and-out duality, which is what feels polytheistic-cludge to me. It would be more parsimonious, I feel, if all this stuff about birth and death was just a human-created interpretation of the Unkind One's actual motivations and goals, which were not easily comprehended by the people who first started worshiping Jashin. After all, if your main talent is killing, and you contact a being who wants you to enact as much change as possible, your strong suit on the topic is probably changing a lot of people from being alive to being dead, and then wow it looks like the alien god is an alien god of wants-you-to-kill-things.

The Washerman I am more likely to point at the esoteric being Pain summoned at Nagi Island who demonstrated the ability to manipulate souls and, in some sense, the cycle of life and death (it is, after all, called the "Outer Path: Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique", that sounds pretty reincarnation-oriented and also External to me). But right now I give it like 60/40 odds that Jashin is the Unkind One and his favour of us was never a matter of "birth Jashinism" just-so polytheism.
 
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I think there is a solid chance that Jashin and the Unkind One are the same entity. My thoughts:
  1. If Jashin were a separate External alongside the Washerman and the Unkind One that regularly interacted with reality, it seems a little odd that Kamehameha never heard of him.
  2. "Jashin" literally means "evil god", which is plausibly linguistically downstream from "unkind one"
  3. It would still make sense for Hazou to have Jashin's favour if Jashin is really the Unkind One and seeks great change instead of birth and death. Hazou, championing Uplift, is one of the greatest agents of change in the world.


I think that there is a high chance that we (the thread, or Hazou, or Hidan as well) have maybe been conflating both of these with 'Jashin' at various points in time.

When Hidan says "Jashin is not big on samey-same", well, that sounds more like the Unkind One than the Washerman. When Hidan is getting visions that speak about the impending doom of civilization and implied orders to the contrary on that front, that could be parsed as either saying 'Keep the ball rolling'.

For Hazou, I feel like its less ambiguous but still not clear cut. We pretty much are an agent of chaotic change. We named our sealtech 'CHAOS suits'. We hang out with Ami and do shenanigans. We do stupid shit sometimes and it just piles up to change the setting twice over. The most evident piece of highly improbable metaphysical intervention comes in a dice/gambling context (and not a one-off, a continued streak of luck), the second most visible instance of something that could be called that is an afterlife vision, which honestly... who knows? That can be stretched either way. After that its either 'You rolled dice and they clustered very strangely' or 'Your seals happened to detonate in a way that opened a rift to the afterlife haha'.

I can see arguments for either, but the thing that's missing in Hazou's case is the whole ritual sacrifice bullshit. Tough to say who has a hand in which pie there. This also has some crossover with the Tama founder, who was implied to be involved with some nameless entity with control over life and death. Whether thats one or the other...

We should absolutely raid one of the Jashinist temples lying around the map as a future unstagnation mission. This might give us some insight.


I don't think it really matters all that much in the short term, but I would like to get to the bottom of this kami/external stuff and the "Which misc. entity is actually helping Hazou out from time to time" thing. If its the Washerman/King of Hell/Jashin/etc. and that entity cares a bunch about Project Necromancy for some vague psychopomp reasons, then I would rather be cautious while we fuck up that guy's hobby. If its some other entity that is just down to help a brother out because we keep it interesting, then that works for me and I'll play ball with that. Ditto for any nascent/dead/dreaming kami or anything else going on.

If the Spirit of YOUTH exists, then "[x] YOSH! THE EAST IS BURNING RED!" etc.
 
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