redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Wait we're voting again? I people expressed displeasure with changes made partway through the voting cycle and wished for a chance to edit the vote again?
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Nah, it's just the default thing; voting normally opens after an update. It's unusual when it doesn't.
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Can you explain where Kagome would add value? I don't want to pander to him. He's not stupid.
You can always update your vote. If you'd like, I can ping you specifically when changes are made so you can stay in the loop.
Here are my thoughts on the current state of the plan.
If someone could run the numbers/math/scenarios on Shikamaru's deal, that would be swell and leave us better-informed.
I think my approach to the Shikamaru section is now better as it lays out pros and cons, and then our leaning. It provides Naruto insight, which will hopefully soften the blow if we go with it. Please let me know if there salient pros/cons I'm missing. Maybe we could be explicit about giving Naruto input, but I'm hoping that's implied from his presence.
I don't think that there's much more to be said here. The middle two points might raise some eyebrows as I'm not sure how respected he is by traditionalists and how folks will feel about pointing out that he might have to stand up to Orochimaru, notionally-loyal Leaf nin, but I think it is what it is.
I think that the tone is right and pointing out that the Rift is an existential threat which Choza may not be well-suited to handle is good. I think that unconditionally providing genin-level seals suited to surgery and potentially-valuable silk is a good idea.
I worry a bit about getting thrown through a wall by trying to buy her. I'm hoping our offer is large enough to offset any rage she might feel. I am a little more worried about it than I would be if we didn't know Hiashi (effectively) bought her previously. She could easily take offense at the implication that everyone knows she can be bought.
I think the tone is right. I think asking about Kurenai in the way we are is a good idea: we're relatively nonthreatening and I suspect he'll want to talk about it.
I think the Naruto pitch will be well-received given that it's basically a given we're going to make one. I don't know that I love the 'offset' language, but I like it better than the bit about choosing between what's best for the Aburame and what's best for Leaf.
I think the tone is pretty much dead-on. I am hoping that think before speaking prevents any serious screwups.
I think thanking him for reaching out and making an honest overture towards better relations, in an area where they're definitely the authority, is going to be useful.
I think I'm happy with how we ask him to pitch us, and the topics we're asking about specifically. I also think that asking what he'd do in our shoes, both in the election and generally, is good. Again, we're making it clear we respect him, we get to see how his mind works a bit better, and he probably has some good ideas.
I made a bunch of edits while writing this so I probably need to pare things down, but that's where I'm sitting currently. Feedback is appreciated.
- Location
- Not a Burned Down House
Kagome is smart. And he wants to be included more, and his happiness is important to Hazo and to me, the eldritch horror that is helping to puppet Hazo.
I don't know if he will actually add any real value. He might though.
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We need Ami in the room and his domain is not politics. I want to include him more going forward, but I don't think this is the time.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Also like, he thinks Naruto is a demon wearing the skin of a human so like... not sure he'll be super keen on helping him become Kagome's boss
Nope! We just proved we're invaluable to leaf's survival, and are the only person able to foil the Akatsuki's long-term plans! We might be the single person she can least afford to kill!
Sass her all you want!* **
*after the election
**don't.
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- Location
- Not a Burned Down House
Works for me. I am going to, hopefully, be constantly working towards plans having relationship improvements with Kagome and Goketsu peeps.
- Location
- Yes.
Potential con: This may be part of a larger scheme in which Chouza's faction arranges to have all their supporters and bought votes go to him immediately, artificially inflating his apparent support.
Thought: Add Ritsuo to the discussion; he's arguably even worse than Chouza. I feel that it would be better to describe things in a "Naruto is the best person for what's coming" instead of "Chouza is the wrong person for what's coming".
Observation: Hiashi bribed Tsunade with more than material wealth; he bribed her with personal hospital support in the form of Hyuga assigned specifically to become medics. If we do want to be bribing her, we should be doing so in that context.
To QMs:
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
Given that Asuma said he would tell us about Isan. I assume he told hazou the contents of the report?
If so
Also, did Asuma tell hazou why he was censoring certain information (the white blocks) from Hazou? Or did he actually say the names when he talked to hazou about it?
To players:
we should check with shika about status of the isan clean-up operations after asuma died, in case they got dropped. and also convince him to not just kill the survivors.
maybe that missin nin will know more dragon forbidden lore. could use that as reason to keep him alive.
surprised no yamanaka mind dive from the report
wonder if yuno knows more dragon forbidden lore. also we should figure out satsuko in case it can actually talk.
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
Given that Asuma said he would tell us about Isan. I assume he told hazou the contents of the report?
If so
does this means they infiltrated isan to get some clothing? if so, did he give hazou the clothing yet? Or did this mean that after infiltration finds the missin-nin they would steal his clothing. So that hazou could find the missing nin...again...for some reason?
Also, did Asuma tell hazou why he was censoring certain information (the white blocks) from Hazou? Or did he actually say the names when he talked to hazou about it?
To players:
we should check with shika about status of the isan clean-up operations after asuma died, in case they got dropped. and also convince him to not just kill the survivors.
maybe that missin nin will know more dragon forbidden lore. could use that as reason to keep him alive.
surprised no yamanaka mind dive from the report
wonder if yuno knows more dragon forbidden lore. also we should figure out satsuko in case it can actually talk.
- Location
- Washington, USA
It's not cheating if there's informed consent! Complex multi-partner relationships are a Goketsu tradition. If Mari and Jiraya aren't proof enough, consider Kei, Tenten, Snowflake, and their various projectiles. Yuno herself arguably already participates in that tradition just by being together with Noburi - the barrel's fairly passive, but they do share fluids.
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Forked the plan.
Keeps all content, but makes small implementation tweaks I found important.
Changelog:
[X] Action Plan: Slight Fork of The Dawn of the Final Day
Word count: <400
I'm happy to make more small tweaks for the next ~20hours, and not very interested in making changes close to the deadline.
Keeps all content, but makes small implementation tweaks I found important.
Changelog:
- Present Shika's deal as a good thing to Naruto, instead of a bad thing.
- Explicitly task Naruto/Mari with approaching Kurenai
- Suggest pointing out to Kurenai that Naruto could be the better candidate for her goals.
- Possibly offer Tsunade more resources. Have Mari help us identify the appropriate amount.
- Specify Tsunade's
bribefunding is for Medical/humanitarian initiatives. - Offhandedly mention to Tsunade that Ritsuo is terrible, just the worst.
- More strongly bid for Shino's vote. While we're at it, frame Naruto as the candidate he knows is best for leaf.
- Explicitly tell Choza that we want to collaborate, and don't want our different social values to taint our relationship.
[X] Action Plan: Slight Fork of The Dawn of the Final Day
Word count: <400
- Duration: 24 hours.
- Mari, Kei, Ami, Naruto. (Ideally, offscreen/flashbacks.)
- Bribe the Kurusu to immediately declare support for Naruto.
- Shikamaru's deal:
- We lean yes, this benifits everybody, but want to check with you first.
- Kurenai:
- Naruto/Mari handle this.
- Naruto also has a deep personal hatred of the the Akatsuki, but is better able to unite Leaf and stand up to Essies.
- Supporting his campaign might further her goals at least as well as running for herself.
- Hinata:
- Our meeting was cryptic. If she did something last-minute what would it be?
- Could/should Naruto duel Ritsuo and Choza simultaneously?
- Discuss the below.
- Meta: our Naruto pitch. He's…
- …strong, smart, well-trained, and a flexible forward thinker.
- …capable of personally standing up to Orochimaru/S-rankers.
- …respected by everyone from the KEI to traditionalists.
- …well-suited to the bureaucratic requirements of the role (Shadow Clones).
- Tsunade:
- Tone: no nonsense, to the point.
- The Rift is an existential threat.
- Iron fist, velvet glove won't work on AMITY/the Akatsuki. We think Choza's the wrong choice for what's coming.
- Needless to say, Ritsuo would be a total disaster for everyone.
- Make our Naruto pitch (above).
- Iron fist, velvet glove won't work on AMITY/the Akatsuki. We think Choza's the wrong choice for what's coming.
- Unconditionally provide dampener seals and Arachnid-silk bandages.
- For her vote, offer up to 40% of our cash reserves and half our gemstone profits for the next year. Explicitly frame this as Hospital/humanitarian funds.
- Repeat our mic-drop moment with Naruto, then explain we have a steady supply we'll use to crash Lightning's market with the Hyuuga.
- If Mari thinks the offered resources aren't large enough, offer more.
- Repeat our mic-drop moment with Naruto, then explain we have a steady supply we'll use to crash Lightning's market with the Hyuuga.
- Shino:
- Tone: respectful, relaxed.
- Is Kurenai going to be okay? We're interested politically and compassionately. We're familiar with grief, albeit on a different scale.
- Make our Naruto pitch.
- If anyone tries to lever your support elsewhere, we're happy to counterbalance it.
- We'd rather you weren't forced to chose between what's best for your clan and what's best for Leaf.
- If anyone tries to lever your support elsewhere, we're happy to counterbalance it.
- Choza:
- Tone: Well-mannered. Respectful and honest. Think before speaking.
- You appreciate him reaching out. You've neglected your relationship with the Akimichi.
- We want to remedy that. Could we visit their kitchens at some point? We feed many, but it's food, not cuisine.
- We may have different visions for Leaf's social direction, but we both want to see it safe, prosperous, and happy. We don't want our different social values to impede our shared goals.
- Ino says we have plenty in common. Ask for a stump speech. Listen.
- Ask how he'd handle the Dragons, Akatsuki, and AMITY.
- If he were suddenly Lord Goketsu, what would he do?
- Not just our vote, but generally. We're new at this, and we've made many mistakes.
- He's an experienced leader. We'd value his perspective.
I'm happy to make more small tweaks for the next ~20hours, and not very interested in making changes close to the deadline.
- Location
- Not a Burned Down House
What a thing to say, true, but what a THING to SAY
Aodyssey
The glass will not protecc you
- Location
- Chaldea
@FaintlySorcerous Arent we explicitly implying she's not okay or not suitable, despite Shino's well considered decision (whether true or not as he likely would think it is) by asking if she's okay and then pitching someone else?
I think we should only talk about either Kurenai or about Naruto to Shino or, if we want to express our concern (and scout out) only mention Kurenai after we made our Naruto pitch.
I think we should only talk about either Kurenai or about Naruto to Shino or, if we want to express our concern (and scout out) only mention Kurenai after we made our Naruto pitch.
@roobee Your comment asked some well-considered questions. I'm also curious about most of these, thanks!
I've learned that point 2 may seem silly to some people, but it's really not.
The vile phrase "...eh, there's no reason not to tell them" is the death of InfoSec/OPSEC.
This question I'm pretty sure I can answer.
- Real-Life: Paper probably didn't want to write a bunch of non-relevant details(which specific now-destroyed house? what were the now-dead people names?)
- In-Universe; There's no reason to share specific operational details with Hazou, just the results. No reason to share is a reason not to share.
I've learned that point 2 may seem silly to some people, but it's really not.
The vile phrase "...eh, there's no reason not to tell them" is the death of InfoSec/OPSEC.
in hindsight your proposed real-life reason for censorship sounds correct.
however for in-universe.
however for in-universe.
the dragon name would actually possibly be useful for asuma to tell hazou. so he could ask the pangolins/dogs if they have any stories about that name. i guess asuma figured if wanted information, we could request it and then he tells us. wonder if we could spend a FP so that hazou asked asuma for the name before he died.
It looked like lore about the Five was also redacted out. Perhaps this is related? Timeline permitting, the redacted name might be the Nara founder or something like that?
- Location
- how about no
It is not so much that Kagome is absolutely needed for this particular scheme but that Kagome's agency as a person needs to be respected before he grows even more distant from us.
Kagome's specialty is being adequately paranoid. We should work with him to find something that he can do that helps our family become safer since S-rankers can apparently waltz into the Hokage's office and murder him with only 1 casualty.
We should have a frank conversation with Kagome about what he, as an individual, and we, as a clan/family, need for him to do to make him feel more included in our family dynamic while still being productive for our (aka, the Goketsu's) overall goals. I can think of three options we can offer to Kagome to see what his preferences for such a role would be:
- Passing a Mari-run test of his INFOSEC capabilities so we, as a clan, have no compunctions about his ability to not blurt out sensitive information during these suddenly highly political times.
- Doubling down on his security role in our clan by having him think of and prepare pitches for security countermeasures for hostile actors capable of breaking into a clan's compound to plant evidence (*cough* bloody shirt *cough*) and/or escape routes from Leaf if Naruto actually is the Fox masquerading as a human, Orochimaru gets too handsy, Ritsuo somehow becomes Hokage and becomes unambiguously hostile to our wellbeing, etc.
- If the stinkers never meet him they cannot probe him for information on our security, but this option would make him even more of a hermit... which has its own pros and cons, but it would be his choice.
- If neither of those options are sufficient Kagome can come with us to brainstorm with our whole family (with or without Ami according to Kagome's wishes) to find a new solution. This conversation would also have to be as frank as possible because our family's safety hinges so much on Kagome's capabilities: it is not an exaggeration to say he is not only the cornerstone of our safety in Leaf, but the entire metaphorical foundation of our physical safety when we are in our own home compound.
I like Kagome but also feel like he doesn't have much to contribute here. His presence would be a distraction at best. It would be nice if we could pursue our political goals with him in the room, but he is likely to start ranting about the Fox at an inappropriate time.
It's just not the time or place for his experience. We aren't discussing the trap array in the Tower. There he would have some things to contribute. Stick to discussing politics with the politicians.
- Location
- how about no
Kagome contributing to politics would fall under option one where we need to confirm his ability to keep a level head and his mouth shut to persuasive non-clan members inquiring about our political positions. He would have to prove that even if he believes Naruto is just the Fox masquerading as a human Kagome can still refrain from alerting the Fox any further to the idea that Kagome knows the Fox's true nature. A key part of the deal to respect his agency as a person is to give him the option to be more involved so long as he plays by the rules Hazou sets out as clan head.
Kagome's resentment grows because we write him off as nonessential and he knows that, even if he cannot disagree with the cold hard logic of the decision. That is why he is so resigned to becoming a footnote in history: on our current trajectory we will fully outgrow needing Kagome as one of our inner circle members.
Do we, as the hivemind, want Kagome to become a member of our clan who is no longer really a part of our inner circle? Ordering him around from project to project and not seeking out his council on miscellaneous matters not explicitly related to his specialties will result in that outcome. Kagome has been left behind by our team after everything we have been through to get into Leaf. While he has not been shunned by us intentionally even someone as socially stunted as him feels terrible when he realizes that he is no longer being involved in his family's major decisions. Emotions do not care if that may be the most logical course of action for Hazou as clan head; even if they are irrational and annoying to our machinations they still matter.
We need to give Kagome a chance not for purely optimizing our political planning, but to help him feel and/or be more involved in helping to take care of the people he cares about most. Trying to placate him with platitudes about how much he means to us has failed; action is required to mend the growing emotional rift between him and the rest of us before it is too late.
On a purely heartless pragmatic level, I am fairly confident that Mari would/will counsel Hazou that Kagome's resentment would/will be a prime opportunity for our political rivals (or worse, outright hostile enemies) to establish leverage in our own clan's internal politics. Kagome has finally had a taste of belonging somewhere after we basically adopted him. If we no longer provide him with that source of emotional closeness someone else will either sincerely and/or as part of a nefarious plot against us.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Well, these were interrogated genin. I dearly hope they got at least one loremaster.
Also, were the redacted things just stuff that reveals this being about Isan? Otherwise I am mighty curious what the redacted questions hidden stuff, locations and procedures were about.
Oh... So presumably they failed to interrogate any actual lorekeeper or sealmaster, despite those specifically being the leadership of two known Clans. So the Yamanaka ANBU hit some kind of snag or just did a shoddy job. And we will never know which, unless a Gokētsu actually becomes Hokage any time soon. Which is highly unlikely even if one discounts Naruto's high life expectancy.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
May I ask the two of you why you felt it necessary to include this phrase? Was it because our relationship didn't last as long or because losing a husband is worse than losing a father?
Or is it about actual emotionality, with Hazō saying that his grief just didn't hit him as hard as Kurenai's, for whatever reason?
Because Hazō lost his original father, Jirayia and Akane. Shino himself lost his father (but unlikely many other founding Clans most of his family survived the Collapse I think).