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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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RandomOTP said:
I... uh. Pretty sure that's top secret, not to be shared with anyone
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I'm not sure about it, regardless, this is why i sanity checked it with four people.

RandomOTP said:
Tsunade is grumpy and not inclined to giving compliments or praise (however warranted).

I'm also hesitant to use Hazou's growth as something to flaunt, since when we tried that with Orochimaru, he sneered at us because "when I was your age, I was already investigating the boundary between chakra's material and immaterial expression."

Hazou's sealing growth might be impressive for a normal ninja, but I would hesitate to assume it's noteworthy to a Sannin.
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It's less something to flaunt or to put ourselves on her level, but to show we're capable actors. We don't need to be at her level, we just need to be worthy enough to help.
Also, Orochimaru is an idiot with as much arrogance as idiocy: that was as an answer to Hazou asking "Do you want to play a board game", IIRC. :V

RandomOTP said:
Help in what way? Tsunade doesn't really need us. She tells Asuma to jump, and he asks her "how high?" She has the resources of an entire Hidden Village at her disposal, all she has to do is ask. I'm not really sure we can offer her anything meaningful that she doesn't already have.
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This is why "we can help" is not the important part of the argument, still, it's important to make clear that if she needs something we are, in fact, a resource she can ask for help.
This said, Asuma is the Hokage, and has a balance of power to consider. He can't go to the Hyuga and order their sealmasters to work on a seal "Because Tsunade said so". More importantly, Tsunade knows and respects that, so she won't throw a tantrum if he refuses with good reason.
Tsunade is one of the most important actors and if she left Leaf(Not that she would, and everyone knows that) it would a big problem. The same is true for the Clans, or Naruto, or KEI and so on. She does, in fact, have massive amounts of political power, but Asuma is not at her beck and call, as the apprenticeship shows.

And it's not like having more allies is a bad thing:V
 
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FaintlySorcerous said:
@Oneiros would you include something like 'ask Noburi if he knows what happened with his sisters, and if not, have him follow up with Mari and Ami to see if Mist was sending a message, Leaf torpedoed the deal, etc.'? This is something we can 100% delegate.

The points I want to hit with it are asking him what he thinks, seeing what Mari/Ami think if Noburi doesn't have a clear idea, and drawing parallels to the KEI slow-rolling us on the adoption tickets (dunno if Noburi thinks in political terms so it might not even occur to him that this was a snub/hidden message).
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Let me know if this works for you. I'm def willing to do whatever in this sections that you want if you have specific phrasing or want to go in a different direction

Oneiros said:
Noburi & Mari
  • Discuss why Noburi's sisters where not allowed to visit
  • Was this a political snub similar to The KEI and the adoption tickets?
  • Who do we think was responsible for it not happening
  • Since Asuma couldn't deliver do we think we can get something else for Noburi?
    • He def deserves it
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Cariyaga said:
If I may, I would like to suggest we treat "looking at the dragons" even from a distance as an activity that requires the same precautions as sealing. To wit: Explosive emplacements, preparations, active chakradar, MARS loadouts prepped and ready, pre-placed skywalker and rocket boot sandals to slip into if we need to, as well as readiness to immediately reverse summon at any moment.
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My brain is being slow right now, If you could try to figure out how to phrase what precautions we want that would be based. If don't here back from you will try to figure something out when the caffeine kicks in
 
Another plan, just a random idea, not very developed

[X] Action Plan: Resolve is everything

  • Sanity Check, Mari, Kei.
    • Is it possible to find out if the Yamanaka have a jutsu that boosts Resolve?
    • If they have it(Or it's probable they have it), try to buy it for a copy of Oro's medical notes or his jutsu in exchange for it(Of course, if Mari can obtain more than the Resolve jutsu, even better).
    • Let Mari and/or Kei deal with the negotiations, both for OPSEC reasons(do not reveal FOOM) and for the fact they are better than you at negotiations.
    • Be mindfull of FOOM OPSEC, if you think you can't handle it, let Mari take point.
  • Sealing
    • Keep working on the Minato's Seal chain, if FP<3, work on, in order:
      • Chakradar 2.0(With Prep)
 
Aodyssey said:
I respect Tsunade in her capacity as a Mednin, but I do not find her very reliable. She has made death threats on multiple occasions (to Hazo, to Akane, to Noburi, probs to everyone) and not follow thru on them.
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One would expect the lack of brutal murder to make her appear more trustworthy, not less
Lord Marshal said:
Also, Orochimaru is an idiot with as much arrogance as idiocy: that was as an answer to Hazou asking "Do you want to play a board game", IIRC
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I believe that was a fine use of anti-social skills: "shut up, I'm not interested, you're not bringing me anything of use"
 
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It was an exquisite usage of having negative social skills. It discouraged banal distractions in the future and encouraged Hazo to not only try harder to live up to his own potential but only approach in the future with things he's 110% certain Orochimaru will be interested in, since "mostly certain" isn't a high enough margin of error.

The only thing worse than an insufferable murderous genius with no social skills is one who is entirely aware of the lack and able to manipulate people with them regardless.
 
Cariyaga said:
Ruling the Goketsu is a matter regarding the fate of the world? This is exactly the reasoning we use to push him to take the hat; he would then have ultimate authority over Hazou regardless of whether he was the clan head or not
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Sure, but it's less personal power for him. And since he's the best man for the job of saving the world (in his mind) more power is better. He gains nothing my giving up direct control. And if he can just keep veto power and have Hazou do all the work, that's ideal for him.
Crake said:
The only thing worse than an insufferable murderous genius with no social skills is one who is entirely aware of the lack and able to manipulate people with them regardless.
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Oh Oro has social skills. He just doesn't respect most ninja enough to bother with them. He's charming and funny with his peers. He just doesn't bother with social skills if he doesn't feel like it
 
we should do the great seal telescope before doing seal research. that way we will have FP if we need it for dragons, instead of being used up by research.
 
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[X] ES Fun
Have fun with ES.
  • Make mountains of legos for the kids.
  • Try using ES to make a hollow boulder, slowly roll it from the inside.
  • Use ES 40 to narrow down materials that feel good for ES 50. Rent rare rocks from Hokage and summon clans.
  • Practice ways to use ES faster. Max hand contact when making houses by using ES platforms to move around the structure or get moved around with someone's help.
  • Privately show gently redacted ES 40 abilities to Hokage. What heist missions does this open up? Much stronger ES in 6 months. Collaborate on plan to renovate cheap properties on expensive land, hardline Merchant Council to renovate entire city. Bring in ISC + allies for renovation.
  • Lose track of some chakra koi during move. Create secret pond with ES.
  • Clear everything with family.
 
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Jiraiya and Asuma Fight Over the Hat
  • Apocrypha
    • Jiraiya and Asuma Fight Over the Hat​
    Asuma: Jiraiya?! You're back!
    Jiraiya: Good to see you again, kid.
    A: Welcome back, Lord Fifth. As you have seniority over me, I humbly return the hat to you. [holds out the Hokage's hat]
    J: Ah, but my death released my claim on the hat and it passed to you in lawful fashion. Therefore, I have no right to it and shall humbly honor you as my Kage. [refuses the hat]
    A: Ah, but you are a far more skilled ninja than I. The other nations will be more afraid of you than of me and therefore you being Hokage will make Leaf safer. Although acknowledging my inferiority in this way is embarrassing, my integrity requires it. Please, take the hat.
    J: Ah, but we don't know yet what the lasting effects of my resurrection will be. I might collapse at any moment, or go insane. We can't risk having such unknowns in our Kage. You must keep it.
    A: No trouble at all! We'll have Tsunade look you over and as soon as she gives you a clean bill of health -- which she will -- we can all feel comfortable with you wearing the hat again.
    J: Okay, enough of this fooling around. Offer me that hat again and I will punch your head off.
    A: Take the hat or I'll cut your fist off with my chakra-metal knives and then stab you in the face a gazillion times.
    J: I'll Rasengan through your knives and into your face.
    A: I'll call Enma and have him beat you to death.
    J: I'll call Gamabunta and have him kick Enma's ass.
    A: Hah! You aren't the Toad Summoner anymore!
    J: ...Well, shit.
    A: I win! [slaps the hat onto Jiraiya's head, runs out of the room cackling madly]
     
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  • Apocrypha
    • Confirmation that Necromancy nullifies Summoning Contract

    Let's go get the Crow summoning scroll, folks :V
     
    So after thinking about it, I think the EM nuke may (may) have a aspect which we haven't considered.

    It starts fires.

    Yes, that sounds odd considering it makes a flood of cryogenic liquid, but it's quite possible. Despite it's low temperature, liquid oxygen is a

    View: https://youtu.be/lHo-NcSaQwU?t=75



    If it was just creating a flood of liquid oxygen then, no questions asked, it would create a huge fire by concentrating oxygen from the upper atmosphere and releasing it on the ground. A single spark and a whole forest will go up. Anything remotely flammable will burn vigorously. So since the temperature can be controlled, that's potentially a new setting for the nuke; less wind (because it's only freezing a fifth of air by volume), much more fire.

    Now, will this happen during the full fledged nuke? That, i'm unsure about. If the liquified air remains well-mixed, you don't get oxygen concentration. The liquified air itself could still burn somewhat better because of the increased density of available oxygen, but I suspect this diminished effect will be outweighed by the cryogenic temperature.

    However, there are several potential mechanisms by which liquid oxygen could end up selectively concentrated or separated from the nitrogen. Liquid oxygen is almost half again as dense as liquid nitrogen. And liquid nitrogen boils at a lower temperature, so it'll boil first. This means you have two potential effects that will fight the turbulent mixing of the outrushing liquid air - density, which will attempt to separate the liquid oxygen and nitrogen into two fluid layers with oxygen on the bottom, and the selective boiling of the nitrogen before the oxygen.

    This could play out a few ways. When a wave of cryogenic air first passes over the landscape, it'll likely be highly mixed. Most boiling will tend to occur on the bottom, because the air above it has little thermal mass compared to the ground; it'll waste more 'cold' trying to freeze the ground. All that boiling on the bottom will have to boil up through it, so you probably get even more mixing from that and reduce the effects that might let oxygen boil off before it's 'time'... I'd say it is going to heavily skew towards boiling nitrogen off, resulting in dead air and a increasing concentration in liquid oxygen.

    So as the turbulent flow progresses outwards, it becomes oxygen-concentrated. In a simpler scenario, this might result in a center region of 'dead air' surrounded by a outer region which is one spark away from a raging hellfire. But the entire scenario is complicated:
    • There are many obstacles and uneven terrain to de-trivialize fluid flow.
    • The re-circulation of freshly-boiled air will be substantial.
    • The ground will freeze and so fluid has to travel farther to start boiling.
    • Any pools that remain somewhat undisturbed will oxygen-concentrate and become fire hazards.
    • Flammable (or burning) debris will be carried away by the substantial flow of liquid, potentially moving them into (or away) from whatever zone is oxygen-concentrated.
    Hmm. All I can say is that you're very right in that EM nuke is complicated, but also don't be surprised if it, bafflingly, incorporates sporadic hellfire into the ice show.
     
    Buggy said:
    However, there are several potential mechanisms by which liquid oxygen could end up selectively concentrated or separated from the nitrogen. Liquid oxygen is almost half again as dense as liquid nitrogen. And liquid nitrogen boils at a lower temperature, so it'll boil first.
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    The difference in boiling point isn't very much, 90K for oxygen and 77K for nitrogen. You'd need a distillation apparatus to separate the mixture with that small of a difference.
    Buggy said:
    I'd say it is going to heavily skew towards boiling nitrogen off, resulting in dead air and a increasing concentration in liquid oxygen.
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    This is a bad assumption, Raoult's law says that the vapor pressure of a mixture of liquids (of an ideal mixture, but you don't get much more ideal than nitrogen and oxygen) is proportional to the vapor pressure of the individual components. What this means in practice is that since the boiling points of these liquids are so close, the entire mixture boils away with no separation. It does get a little oxygen enriched at the end, but we're talking something that's more like 30/70 instead of 20/80.

    You'd need a distillation apparatus to separate the liquids, just like ethanol and water.
     
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    eaglejarl said:
    Jiraiya and Asuma Fight Over the Hat​
    Asuma: Jiraiya?! You're back!
    Jiraiya: Good to see you again, kid.
    A: Welcome back, Lord Sixth. As you have seniority over me, I humbly return the hat to you. [holds out the Hokage's hat]
    J: Ah, but my death released my claim on the hat and it passed to you in lawful fashion. Therefore, I have no right to it and shall humbly honor you as my Kage. [refuses the hat]
    A: Ah, but you are a far more skilled ninja than I. The other nations will be more afraid of you than of me and therefore you being Hokage will make Leaf safer. Although acknowledging my inferiority in this way is embarrassing, my integrity requires it. Please, take the hat.
    J: Ah, but we don't know yet what the lasting effects of my resurrection will be. I might collapse at any moment, or go insane. We can't risk having such unknowns in our Kage. You must keep it.
    A: No trouble at all! We'll have Tsunade look you over and as soon as she gives you a clean bill of health -- which she will -- we can all feel comfortable with you wearing the hat again.
    J: Okay, enough of this fooling around. Offer me that hat again and I will punch your head off.
    A: Take the hat or I'll cut your fist off with my chakra-metal knives and then stab you in the face a gazillion times.
    J: I'll Rasengan through your knives and into your face.
    A: I'll call Enma and have him beat you to death.
    J: I'll call Gamabunta and have him kick Enma's ass.
    A: Hah! You aren't the Toad Summoner anymore!
    J: ...Well, shit.
    A: I win! [slaps the hat onto Jiraiya's head, runs out of the room cackling madly]
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    I absolutely love this. But, isn't Jiraiya the 5th, he of the youthful church the 6th, and Asuma seventh? You have Jiraiya as the 6th here.
     
    Sir Stompy said:
    The difference in boiling point isn't very much, 90K for oxygen and 77K for nitrogen. You'd need a distillation apparatus to separate the mixture with that small of a difference.

    This is a bad assumption, Raoult's law says that the vapor pressure of a mixture of liquids (of an ideal mixture, but you don't get much more ideal than nitrogen and oxygen) is proportional to the vapor pressure of the individual components. What this means in practice is that since the boiling points of these liquids are so close, the entire mixture boils away with no separation. It does get a little oxygen enriched at the end, but we're talking something that's more like 30/70 instead of 20/80.

    You'd need a distillation apparatus to separate the liquids, just like ethanol and water.
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    Ah, hmm. You raise a good point; I hadn't considered vapor pressure. Shoot, you might not get significant gas concentration alterations at all; LN2 and LO2 are miscible, so if they're already mixed they won't separate by density alone.

    Well, the fire-nuke is still a valid concept. Just have to get the temperature right. Though, not sure how you'd get Hazo to attempt that specifically; maybe as a series of tests to figure out exactly where the nuke effect starts, by repeatedly casting at incrementally lower temperatures?



    ... Unrelated, but: what happens in 20 more levels when EM cools a region past absolute zero? Does it stop at absolute zero? Does the Chakra Superintelligence experience a overflow error and crash and/or create a const float MAX_TEMP plasma?
     
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    Velorien said:
    You have received 3 + 1 (Brevity) = 4 XP.
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    Hazou notes xp: 12 sealing
    • Orochimaru's Sealing notes #4: S:0 B: 33 R:117
    Noburi notes xp: 3 MedNin and 3 MedKnow
    • Orochimaru's MedKnow notes #3: S: 65, B: 22, R: 13
    • Orochimaru's MedNin notes #3: S: 0, B: 12, R: 63
    Akane notes xp: 12 MedNin and 12 MedKnow
    • Orochimaru's MedKnow notes #3: S: 0, B: 48, R: 27
    • Orochimaru's MedNin notes #3: S: 0, B: 23, R: 52
     
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