Sealcraft is not a good basis for a chakrapunk civilization, or just a technologically advanced society. Not quite sure about TH and its danger to the general public, but TH seems to be quite dangerous as well.
Better to encourage civilian science and technology as they are less likely to kill a lot of people or end civilization as you scale expertise.
At least until you get into nukes stage, but even that pale in comparison to chakra's ability to produce WMDs.
He looked back to Mari-sensei. "Point is, Hazō has been dealing with stuff that's hard to screw up, so it's not surprising that most of the screw-ups have been fairly tame. Once you start getting into more esoteric research that isn't the case anymore."
Well, one's "what if it had been a different failure than what it was though, then it could be worse" - in actuality it was innocuous enough to be dealt with by a genin and explosions - and the other is arguably not that close to beginner territory at all.
That's kind of the point. The best hope for dealing with a seal failure is to have someone with good survival skills and seal know-how, and there was no one nearby for him to harm.
I mean it won't really matter long term if people die in sealing failures (or any other way really) because we will control the after life. Ohh you died just hop on this train to the portal station and we'll get you to any major city in a jiff
Sealcraft is not a good basis for a chakrapunk civilization, or just a technologically advanced society. Not quite sure about TH and its danger to the general public, but TH seems to be quite dangerous as well.
Better to encourage civilian science and technology as they are less likely to kill a lot of people or end civilization as you scale expertise
Yeah nukes take thousands of people to construct. Entire countries can fail to make them they're so hard. The world would look pretty fucking bad if any punk with a bad attitude could set off a nuke.
Jiraiya shrugged and took a pull on the canteen of sake at his feet. "From what I can tell, Hazō has mostly been working on variations of storage seals, which are the second best-understood seal in existence. They're an extremely stable design that's very hard to get wrong, which is why they get taught to novices.
"Kagome," he said, turning to his colleague, "I may not agree that all of your precautions are necessary, but the fact is that you're good at what you do. Adding a chakra adhesion trigger to the air domes was a clever bit of jiggery-pokery, and the implosion seals are a cool variant on storage."
He looked back to Mari-sensei. "Point is, Hazō has been dealing with stuff that's hard to screw up, so it's not surprising that most of the screw-ups have been fairly tame. Once you start getting into more esoteric research that isn't the case anymore."
Not trying to be pedantic here but reading the full quote gives me more of the impression that it's just harder to mess up easy seals that badly, not that easy seals aren't equally capable of highly destructive/catastrophic Sealing failures if you fuck up bad enough. I don't think the severity of the Sealing failures we've observed correlate much at all with the difficulty of the seal in question. This most recent evil grapes failure not all that esoteric either, being a storage seal variant itself with a unique trigger
Well, one's "what if it had been a different failure than what it was though, then it could be worse" - in actuality it was innocuous enough to be dealt with by a genin and explosions
Every failure is innocuous enough to be dealt with by explosions, did Kagome teach you nothing?! More seriously, we've been told before leaving that Rift unattended was probably not wise and that maybe it *wasn't* actually dealt with. That nothing happened so far is more luck on our part than anything. And skywalkers aren't beginner territory but as I said, they're much closer to beginner territory than the type of things Jiraiya worked on, yet was still nearly a city destroying threat if Kagome didn't figure out what happened (and threw some explosives at it)
Shrug. I don't care to argue this point, I just don't think multiple seals being in the vicinity of each other is unusual or uncommon. If Sealing failures frequently fucked with nearby seals I'd expect this wouldn't be common practice.
That's kind of the point. The best hope for dealing with a seal failure is to have someone with good survival skills and seal know-how, and there was no one nearby for him to harm.
I mean it won't really matter long term if people die in sealing failures (or any other way really) because we will control the after life. Ohh you died just hop on this train to the portal station and we'll get you to any major city in a jiff
Obviously, the best solutions start from the top -- keep Jiraiya's reappareance from being construed as necromancy, and we don't have most of the problems that come as a result of this.
For the other problems at the top -- we just convince him to become Hokage, and leave us as clan head. How? We do this by describing to him Asuma's (righteous, no doubt) anger in the immediate aftermath of Rock's attacks against us, and the fact that he now has access to methods to fulfill that anger without giving himself time to cool down, and appeal to what he said to us to strip ideas of "strategic-level explosives" out of our head. As for leaving us as clan head, I'm pretty sure we can convince him to work with us on that, simply by pointing out that if he's both clan head and hokage, he'll have that much less time to spend with his family as his family, whether that be Mari or us or Naruto.
Obviously, the best solutions start from the top -- keep Jiraiya's reappareance from being construed as necromancy, and we don't have most of the problems that come as a result of this.
>Tsunade recovered his charred body after the explosion and together with Orochimaru they reconstructed and rehabilitated him over the course of two years
Realistically, keeping things under wraps is entirely outside of Hazou's control. We cannot control Jiraiya. He does as he likes.
I don't think he's going to surrender power to Hazou in a million years. Telling him that it's so he can spend more time with family is not going to work. That's not a convincing argument when the fate of the world is at stake.
We can probably convince him to leave day-to-day stuff to Hazou, but he would retain ultimate authority.
You need two 60s to support a 70, the top of this part is a monocolumn
Moving Mednin to 50 as in the first build is valid but an entire additional 50 is needed to raise it again, as any 40 raised will need a 30, and any 30 raised will need a 20, etc
You need two 60s to support a 70, the top of this part is a monocolumn
Moving Mednin to 50 as in the first build is valid but an entire additional 50 is needed to raise it again, as any 40 raised will need a 30, and any 30 raised will need a 20, etc
Oh poopmuffins. I could've sworn that monocolumns were allowed, provided there weren't any "hanging" branches. Give me a little bit, and I'll tinker with it.
Oh poopmuffins. I could've sworn that monocolumns were allowed, provided there weren't any "hanging" branches. Give me a little bit, and I'll tinker with it.
I joined when the whole training dynamic was already made into a complex thing with too many variables, but if I got that part right, monocolumns used to be allowed, and then we started calling that "pyramids", and then monocolumns weren't allowed any more, making "pyramids" an even more fitting name, but changing what a pyramid is
"Your paranoia is an obstacle to a safe and effective resolution," Kei insisted from beyond the dividing wall. "Even Shikamaru, perhaps our best asset, by training specialises in chaos prevention—which, I may add, makes it extremely fortunate that I married him early and thus the issue of your potential assassination did not arise. What we require is a specialist in chaos creation and management, fields in which Ami is skilled at such a level that Akatsuki would long since have issued an invitation were she not hampered by merely jōnin combat skills. Furthermore, unlike those worthies, whose humanitarian aspirations are remarkably compatible with genocide, Ami has on multiple occasions expressed a preference for a certain basic minimum of stability and non-violence within her toybox."
"And that's nice as far as it goes," Hazō said. "I know you trust Ami to do the best by you and the world in general, Kei. I wouldn't expect anything less. It's possible that you're completely right, and if we tell Ami about the research, she will help optimise our plans in a way that's as beneficial to Nara Kei, Mori Ami, and the world as possible. But she's not my sister, and the transitive property isn't enough for me to be confident that Gōketsu Hazō and his non-Kei family will receive the same consideration. I can easily see a future in which Ami optimises our plans such that she gets exactly what she wants, and anything the Gōketsu want that interferes with that falls by the wayside before we know it. To give a crude example that's probably nothing like what she'd really do, she could set things up so that the best thing we can possibly do is resurrect not Jiraiya but some Mist hero who she knows will be totally loyal to her as a result.
"The fact is, I don't really know what she wants. I'm not sure anyone ever did, considering how far she's gone beyond anything Yagura, Aunt Ren, or even the Mori ever expected of her. Giving her more influence with which to make her preferences into reality could be a blessing or a disaster, and I don't want to find out which until I know the Gōketsu are in control of what happens next. All things being equal, I wouldn't tell her until much later, if at all—and I would consider it a breach of trust if you did it unilaterally."
It should be mentioned at this point that Gōketsu Hazō was a genius of the highest order. Aware that he was about to have a difficult conversation which involved persuading Kei to act as if Ami was less than perfectly trustworthy, and in which the worst-case scenario involved Kei deciding not only to tell Ami everything but to assist her in seizing control from Hazō for the sake of saving the world, he'd chosen a battlefield that would win over even the most suspicious social specialist.
Yes, today was the day Hazō gave the new Gōketsu hot spring its preliminary safety test. He'd taken pains to explain to Gaku (via a note on his desk, in case his chancellor came up with an incontrovertible argument against) that sometimes it was the clan head's duty to risk himself for the sake of protecting the clan, and thus it would be nothing short of unethical to force the first soak on someone else.
Of the others who could join him in the blissful warmth, Akane wasn't in the mood (and unsurprisingly, Haru wasn't either), Mari and Kei were best kept apart if he wanted either to relax, Noburi and Yuno were out on a romantic date, and Kagome-sensei had accepted his sacrifice with sorrowful respect, after providing a list of chakra beasts and other perils that might be lurking beneath the surface. In Snowflake's absence, and with the newer Gōketsu taking his bizarre justification as an excuse to be alone (or perhaps with another of his many lovers to whom they hadn't been introduced), that conveniently just left Kei.
Hazō would have preferred a face-to-face conversation for something this important, but past experience had established that Kei would rather die (or, preferably, murder him) than be subjected to mixed bathing of any sort. Thus, their best compromise was to sit back-to-back against the dividing wall between the men's and women's baths, and while Kei hadn't specified, he was confident that there was at least one shuriken within reach for any male trying to sneak a peek.
"A breach of trust," Kei said coldly. "Did you perhaps miss the part where I made explicit my desire for your input before taking any action? The very same way that you do when you consult me, except, of course, when you do not."
"I know," Hazō said. Another of the many advantages of the hot spring was that, despite being possibly closer to Kei than normal conversation distance, he had more protection from any icy auras than ever before in his life. "That's why I'm taking this opportunity now. I've thought about it, and while I'm not prepared to trust Ami unconditionally the way you are, I also don't want to end up in a scenario where Leaf is in flames, everybody's dead, and I've lost my forehead protector, and I'm just sitting there going, 'If only I hadn't put Gōketsu self-interest ahead of preventing the apocalypse'. In other words, I'll gladly get Ami's help as long as she agrees to a couple of perfectly sensible conditions."
"And what, dare I ask, do you consider perfectly sensible?" Kei's voice was still the cold voice of someone who'd taken offence, but hopefully was enjoying the hot spring too much to storm out into the winter cold with any urgency.
"Simple," Hazō said. Which it was, for a definition of 'simple' which involved hours spent working on the perfect phrasing that neither alienated Kei nor triggered Ami's rules-lawyering reflexes nor risked giving ground he couldn't take back later. "I want her to commit to using the information we share with her in a way that doesn't disadvantage us compared to the counterfactual world where she isn't involved."
There was only silence from the other side of the dividing wall, and Hazō didn't know whether it was contemplative or wrathful.
"To clarify," Hazō went on, "this isn't a trade-off—she's not going to lose out later by finding out on our terms now. The condition is waived at the point in time where she would have learned of the project 'naturally' if we hadn't told her, for example when we go public with Jiraiya's resurrection."
"That is certainly a reasonable clarification," Kei agreed, still in a tone that might have been neutral analysis or a volcano not yet erupting.
"On the other hand," Hazō said, "I do want her to additionally commit to not artificially advancing said waiving of the condition, such as by suggesting strategies which would, as unnecessary side effects, make the project visible to the counterfactual uninformed Ami. If she's in doubt, I'm fine with her using her model of me for minor matters, but for anything significant, I want the opportunity to veto before she goes ahead.
"What do you think, Kei?" he asked after giving her a few seconds to process. "Is that something Ami is likely to react to positively if I make her the offer, or you do on my behalf?"
"Hazō," Kei said reluctantly, "I am very much afraid that she may hug you."
"She may?!"
"Yes," Kei said. The sense of resignation was palpable in her voice. "Hazō, in four sentences, you have secured favourable conditions for yourself, displayed your understanding of the other party's mindset and ability to take advantage of same, and pre-emptively addressed the obvious flaws in the contract. Were this a singles bar, and I some other Mori, suffice it to say that you would not be sleeping alone tonight."
"…Sage's ballsack."
"I hasten to add that I am not some other Mori," Kei said quickly. "My goal-oriented conceptual structure needs are quite adequately met within my own household, and besides, I favour precision and detail in my-"
For a second, there was silence.
"A-As it happens, I understand there is a troupe performing The Leaf Three and the Salamander of Doom at the Nogare Theatre this month. The reviews are most favourable. You should consider inviting Akane and Ino, or perhaps even the entire family."
"I'll make a note of it," Hazō said. "Also, you've just given me excellent reason to leave the negotiations with Ami in your capable hands."
"Of course," Kei said. "She is visiting for ranged weapons practice tomorrow. I will mention it to her then. I apologise in advance if I find that she is part of the two thirds of Leaf that already know, and thus all of your effort will be wasted as the core condition is waived instantly."
Hazō shrugged helplessly, then remembered Kei couldn't see him. "In that case, at least it'll be better to know she knows. Now you've suggested it, I have horrible visions of Ami having already made a ton of plans in the background, and the second the rift opens, Ami's latest initialism will jump in, bring out Pain on a leash, and crown her Supreme Empress of the World Except the Bits Kei Wants."
"Once again," Kei said, "you somehow expect me to find this scenario undesirable."
"Fine," Hazō said. "Ami's latest initialism will jump in, bring out Pain on a leash, and crown you Supreme Empress of the World Except the Bits Ami Wants."
"I shall pray for her obliviousness with all my heart and soul," Kei declared. "I am prepared to consult the Hagoromo for Will of Fire optimisation and write to Lord Ryūgamine for advice on manipulating the ancestors into rendering assistance. I would even consider requesting Hidan's guidance on appealing for aid from Jashin, but alas, Ami herself is my only means of contacting him."
With the important part of the conversation smoothly navigated, Hazō relaxed and sank into the warm water, deciding not to mention at this stage that he was probably Jashin's greatest acolyte in the Fire Country.
-o-
You have received 3 + 1 (Brevity) = 4 XP.
-o-
You have spoken to Akane. She gave you a basic summary of Operation Shave the Priest (so named by Mari allegedly so that any ANBU listening in will assume you're just plotting to get one over on the Hagoromo and lose interest, but really just because she was bored), with a stern reminder that Kei does not know anything about anything and you should not imply otherwise where anyone can hear.
The rest of the plan has yet to happen, including the rolls to see whether you get eaten.
Please tag me with a list of goals you wish to accomplish in the next three to six in-game months, or alert me if you want your name added to the 'interested parties' field of any of these items.
I suspect that having a reasonably-current list might help keep us focused/organized, and an easy reference of other people who want to do things you want to do will help with planmaking and plotting.
If anyone comments on the list or says that something is a stupid idea I will be upset and sad and disappointed in you. If you don't like an item, either say something constructive or leave it alone.
"Hazō," Kei said reluctantly, "I am very much afraid that she may hug you."
"She may?!"
"Yes," Kei said. The sense of resignation was palpable in her voice. "Hazō, in four sentences, you have secured favourable conditions for yourself, displayed your understanding of the other party's mindset and ability to take advantage of same, and pre-emptively addressed the obvious flaws in the contract. Were this a singles bar, and I some other Mori, suffice it to say that you would not be sleeping alone tonight."
Are the details of this summary, uh, information that we the players should be aware of? Is there anything that we don't already know from the interlude with Kei's PoV?
Does Hazo knows that Akane is worried about appearing disloyal to Leaf and that she's
taking measures to appear loyal which is why she's acting weird?
planning on doing something or several somethings to (appear to) distance herself from Hazo?
Can you confirm that the Arachnid section of the plan, including including the telescope-related Declaration, simply did not happen and we'd need to vote it in again to make it happen?
Did we continue researching Minato's seals?
(I'm going to try to do these post-update wrapups on a somewhat-regular basis because I personally lose track of what we do and don't need to vote in again, unless a QM tells me not to do it.)
I suspect that having a reasonably-current list might help keep us focused/organized, and an easy reference of other people who want to do things you want to do will help with planmaking and plotting.
I think our current strategy of 'don't tell a soul about this' is a good idea. The only other person who knows is Hidan. If he makes an announcement, we can tell Asuma or whoever else that it was what we had to say in order to survive and save the lives of Fire citizens.
I'm not really interested in formatting ideas. Quick description of the idea with a list of who supports it and/or is interested in it. Looking at the old list (might trawl Shrooms' list of ongoing projects for ideas) might be an idea, but first I want to make sure people actually want to engage with this.
