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And then what? Reverse summon several dozen (or more) times at the site of battle? Or carry a giant cartoon barrel full of paper around? I suspect 25,000 sheets of paper is a huge underestimate too (partly the point). Hundreds of thousands of seals would be hundreds, or even thousands of pounds depending on how heavy ink is.
Well with no comment on how many actual number of seals it would take a thousand page book only ways a couple of pounds. So logistically even if it was orders of magnitude more the shipping of it through the 7th path isn't complicated. I make no comment on if you could actually sit it up or achieve the desired result
 
Easy solution, port them to the 7th path. Being a summoner solves almost all logistic problems

The problem isn't really the single logistical problems, but that the sheer numbers break down the logicistics at every step(Create/Supply resources/Carry Resources/Deploy Resources), so you need a completely different supply chain to make it work. On top of that, i'm not sure pouring molten glass on top of the island would help. The idea was to glass the island so that the scroll float on top of it, not the cover the island in molten glass that will harden and do nothing.
 
The problem isn't really the single logistical problems, but that the sheer numbers break down the logicistics at every step(Create/Supply resources/Carry Resources/Deploy Resources), so you need a completely different supply chain to make it work. On top of that, i'm not sure pouring molten glass on top of the island would help. The idea was to glass the island so that the scroll float on top of it, not the cover the island in molten glass that will harden and do nothing.
I'll be honest I have no thoughts on the actual plan being proposed. The only thing I'm addressing is how the logistics of moving seals is trivial. Which in turn make the logistics of moving anything relatively small and light trival.
 
The problem isn't really the single logistical problems, but that the sheer numbers break down the logicistics at every step(Create/Supply resources/Carry Resources/Deploy Resources), so you need a completely different supply chain to make it work. On top of that, i'm not sure pouring molten glass on top of the island would help. The idea was to glass the island so that the scroll float on top of it, not the cover the island in molten glass that will harden and do nothing.
Agreed, not only are the logistics basically unsolvable, IMO there's basically no way we could keep the glass from immediately hardening when it's poured out. Storage limits mean we'd be dumping the glass in little batches of ~35 L. It's not remotely possible to float a Summon Scroll this way since it'd need an unobstructed path to the surface and we would immediately obstruct that path with patches of solid glass, since by the time we finished the unstoring process the first layer would be solid.
 
Agreed, not only are the logistics basically unsolvable, IMO there's basically no way we could keep the glass from immediately hardening when it's poured out. Storage limits mean we'd be dumping the glass in little batches of ~35 L. It's not remotely possible to float a Summon Scroll this way since it'd need an unobstructed path to the surface and we would immediately obstruct that path with patches of solid glass, since by the time we finished the unstoring process the first layer would be solid.
No comment on the overall practicality but the storage limits aren't inherently a problem since you can just sit up an array of LBF so that all of the storage seals are triggered at the same time. Once again no other comments on practically or if this is a good idea
 
Well with no comment on how many actual number of seals it would take a thousand page book only ways a couple of pounds. So logistically even if it was orders of magnitude more the shipping of it through the 7th path isn't complicated. I make no comment on if you could actually sit it up or achieve the desired result
It is imo impractical if the enemy is actually present. It's not like they're gonna just sit there while you warp back and forth grabbing a fuck ton of seals
 
No comment on the overall practicality but the storage limits aren't inherently a problem since you can just sit up an array of LBF so that all of the storage seals are triggered at the same time. Once again no other comments on practically or if this is a good idea
Also getting 75,000 seal elements is very very impractical.

EDIT: 25000 Seals is 45.6 sealmaster-years of output, significantly more than Leaf's yearly output. This is never going to happen, we just can't do it. It wouldn't be an intelligent use of resources anyway.
 
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It is imo impractical if the enemy is actually present. It's not like they're gonna just sit there while you warp back and forth grabbing a fuck ton of seals
Well like I said 25000 pages is 25 books. So only one trip to get all of them. With the tools right now it is still probably impractical for anything close to combat since would take days of sit up in the field. Once we get STARS however we can just pair all of them and then have a shadow clone trigger all 25000 seals. So is a massive trick that might be worth considering in the future
Also getting 75,000 seal elements is very very impractical.

EDIT: 25000 Seals is 45.6 sealmaster-years of output, significantly more than Leaf's yearly output. This is never going to happen, we just can't do it. It wouldn't be an intelligent use of resources anyway.

Pretty sure your math is wrong. Seals take 5 minutes to scribe so would only take 260 days of eight hour shifts. While I agree that it isn't a good use of resources we can produce all of those in less than 3 months if we assigned 3 Hazou clones to it.
 
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Pretty sure your math is wrong. Seals take 5 minutes to scribe so would only take 260 days of eight hour shifts. While I agree that it isn't a good use of resources we can produce all of those in less than 3 months if we assigned 3 Hazou clones to it.
Yeah that's right, I typoed an extra 0 by accident. Regardless, there aren't 25000 seals available for purchase before any given mission. So we would need to plan far in advance.
 
Well like I said 25000 pages is 25 books. So only one trip to get all of them. With the tools right now it is still probably impractical for anything close to combat since would take days of sit up in the field. Once we get STARS however we can just pair all of them and then have a shadow clone trigger all 25000 seals. So is a massive trick that might be worth considering in the future
1000 sheets of printer paper is 10 pounds. Seals are a bit smaller than this IIRC but they are also made of a less refined version of paper, and they have paint all over them. A gallon of paint covers about 400 square feet, so I'm going to roughly estimate 1000 seals will take a gallon of paint. That's an additional 7 or 8 pounds. 17 pounds per 1000 seals is over 400 pounds, plus the weight of whatever container needs to carry several hundred pounds of stacked paper. On top of that, 25000 seals is way too few anyways as we mentioned. I said I'd expect it to take hundreds of thousands of seals, where the weight gets truly ridiculous and by no means is solved through reverse summoning if we're talking about enemies being nearby.

We still don't even know how much weight we can reverse summon at once, too.
 
General question once we get a scroll for Kagome how do people feel about teaching him SC since on the 7th path would have very good OPSEC. Getting a second sealmaster FOOMing would be very valuable


Yeah that's right, I typoed an extra 0 by accident. Regardless, there aren't 25000 seals available for purchase before any given mission. So we would need to plan far in advance.
For sure. It is definitely not a trick that we can pull of for this mission. However it is in the realm of things we could do if we set our minds to doing it.
means is solved through reverse summoning if we're talking about enemies being nearby.
It was my understanding that we would do this after we had successfully taken the base. Afterwards we would melt the island to check to see if the summoning scroll was there
 
General question once we get a scroll for Kagome how do people feel about teaching him SC since on the 7th path would have very good OPSEC. Getting a second sealmaster FOOMing would be very valuable

We already asked him, his answer was "Seems interesting, but it's very difficult i(A Sealmaster spec Ninja) will have enough Chakra to use it + it would make me an interesting target for the enemy". Then again, Summoning does require Chakra, so in mid term we could give him SC.
 
General question once we get a scroll for Kagome how do people feel about teaching him SC since on the 7th path would have very good OPSEC. Getting a second sealmaster FOOMing would be very valuable
He will never be allowed to leave Leaf until we have enough clout to ignore Asuma, but if he's okay with that and so are we, I'm fine with it.
 
I'm talking about the human path. Kagome is a massive liability for secrets. I think it's even been mentioned already that's why he isn't allowed to know it
because he is catnip for kidnapping attempts and even more so whit SC and a summoning scroll; I imagine Hazou is the same, he is a summoner, knows shadow clone, is a sealmaster of some renown, knows clan secrets and leaf internal political landscape.
 
1000 sheets of printer paper is 10 pounds. Seals are a bit smaller than this IIRC but they are also made of a less refined version of paper, and they have paint all over them. A gallon of paint covers about 400 square feet, so I'm going to roughly estimate 1000 seals will take a gallon of paint. That's an additional 7 or 8 pounds. 17 pounds per 1000 seals is over 400 pounds, plus the weight of whatever container needs to carry several hundred pounds of stacked paper. On top of that, 25000 seals is way too few anyways as we mentioned. I said I'd expect it to take hundreds of thousands of seals, where the weight gets truly ridiculous and by no means is solved through reverse summoning if we're talking about enemies being nearby.

We still don't even know how much weight we can reverse summon at once, too.

I mean...real life humans can push/move 2 ton cars. Seems like that's an easy fix to the problem. Not to mention the much stronger summons who can probably push 10-100 times that. And it'd still be one trip.
 
I mean...real life humans can push/move 2 ton cars. Seems like that's an easy fix to the problem. Not to mention the much stronger summons who can probably push 10-100 times that. And it'd still be one trip.
Pushing an object on wheels is substantially different from needing to carry the object. Still, people can squat greater numbers than that, but the weights are also really dense and convenient for the purposes of lifting them. The same cannot be said for a giant box of paper. And we don't know if Summons can bring however much weight they can hold with them.
 
Summons create a chakra shell when they travel to the Human Path, they don't actually bring stuff with them. And in the context of bringing seals, that is a recipe for eldritch abomination.
I had this somewhere in the back of my mind but I also thought they were more involved in the 7th path trade center stuff, thinking about it now though that could just be for the purposes of negotiation and nothing else
 
I had this somewhere in the back of my mind but I also thought they were more involved in the 7th path trade center stuff, thinking about it now though that could just be for the purposes of negotiation and nothing else
I think it's all the Summoners and storage seals. Since population numbers in MfD are very low we can transport arbitrary amounts of trade good via storage seal. As we demonstrated with the bison foodlift for Leaf.

Now if we were trying to do international trade IRL with storage seals the story would be very different. Since you can't move millions of tons that way. A few dozen tons is no problem though.
 
I had this somewhere in the back of my mind but I also thought they were more involved in the 7th path trade center stuff, thinking about it now though that could just be for the purposes of negotiation and nothing else

I think it's all the Summoners and storage seals. Since population numbers in MfD are very low we can transport arbitrary amounts of trade good via storage seal. As we demonstrated with the bison foodlift for Leaf.

Now if we were trying to do international trade IRL with storage seals the story would be very different. Since you can't move millions of tons that way. A few dozen tons is no problem though.
Kei brought big barrels of oil along with one of her larger summons (Pandemonium?) during her fight with Hazou. I suppose it's possible that was pangolin oil and pangolin-built barrels, but I always assumed she had brought them from the human path and had them hold the stuff while they were waiting to be summoned.
 
Kei brought big barrels of oil along with one of her larger summons (Pandemonium?) during her fight with Hazou. I suppose it's possible that was pangolin oil and pangolin-built barrels, but I always assumed she had brought them from the human path and had them hold the stuff while they were waiting to be summoned.
It's possible that the items came through as part of the chakra shell and the barrels etc disappeared when the Pangolin did. That's what I would expect.
 
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