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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Oneiros said:
@faflec would you mind putting in something about how the hags are endangering Konoha by playing spiteful games
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Done, though I'm not satisfied with it. I'd like to add more detail on why it's endangering Leaf, and at least some idea of how to counter the Asuma response to the obvious answer (e.g., Hagoromo are blocking Yuno marriage against her preference for Noburi, but Asuma can just order Yuno to marry Neji, what is our response?).
faflec said:
Biggest change is that we deliver the news about NoburixYuno alongside the Hagoromo plans, assuming Asuma seems to not be in a iwanttokillyouhazou mood.

[X] Action Plan: Talk to Asuma EDITED
Word Count: 291

Optimize with Mari, Noburi, Keiko, etc. as appropriate.
  • Our plans with the Hagoromo:
    • We should probably go talk to Asuma about this since he's the Hokage and last time us not talking with him had...well.
      • Ami mentioned "not destroying clans without a Kage's permission"...us Kagome'ing the Hagoromo without discussion isn't a good look, whereas talking to him may net us brownie points.
    • Workshop how (AND WHO) to approach him in a way that wouldn't set him off:
      • Argue that the Hagoromo's actions are endangering Leaf through this petty spat.
      • Maybe just frame it as economic headbutting and making them our political pawn? Seems like that's totally fair game...
      • Emphasize it isn't going to affect them in a way that would affect their ability to serve the Hidden Leaf. (Similarly to how the Hyuuga basically owned the Hagoromo previously).
      • Perhaps the Nara could spin up a quick CBA on what a Gouketsu-Nara directed Hagoromo would look like? With graphs and pictures?
      • Repeated for emphasis: We might stand a lot to gain in his eyes by at least asking him about his preferences for how we go about this.
    • Make any preparations required.
  • Deliver Jiraiya's spy notes to Asuma ASAP. While there, update him on how things are going with the Dogs/Toads.
    • Let Asuma know Yuno's decided to marry Noburi, in a manner appropriate to Leaf customs.
      • There's the issue with the Hagoromo, though. <show him Hinata's letter>
      • Is this a problem?
    • Depending on Asuma's mood/response, let him know our plans for the Hagoromo.
      • We thought you would appreciate us coming to you before doing anything surprising or potentially unwise, sir. (Subtext: Lesson learned)
        • You are the Hokage, after all, and these are your ninja and your citizens too.
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faflec said:
(e.g., Hagoromo are blocking Yuno marriage against her preference for Noburi, but Asuma can just order Yuno to marry Neji, what is our response?).
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That an alliance made with a foundation of fear and mistrust is much more likely to crumble than one made on love and respect. Forcing Yuno to marry simply for convenience sake is the type of thing Yagura would do. The will of fire demands that we are better than that

edit: probably try to invoke How Jiraiya and Hiruzen would always do what was necessary but would never be cruel simply for convenience
 
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faflec said:
Biggest change is that we deliver the news about NoburixYuno alongside the Hagoromo plans, assuming Asuma seems to not be in a iwanttokillyouhazou mood.

[X] Action Plan: Talk to Asuma EDITED
Word Count: 291

Optimize with Mari, Noburi, Keiko, etc. as appropriate.
  • Our plans with the Hagoromo:
    • We should probably go talk to Asuma about this since he's the Hokage and last time us not talking with him had...well.
      • Ami mentioned "not destroying clans without a Kage's permission"...us Kagome'ing the Hagoromo without discussion isn't a good look, whereas talking to him may net us brownie points.
    • Workshop how (AND WHO) to approach him in a way that wouldn't set him off:
      • Argue that the Hagoromo's actions are endangering Leaf through this petty spat.
      • Maybe just frame it as economic headbutting and making them our political pawn? Seems like that's totally fair game...
      • Emphasize it isn't going to affect them in a way that would affect their ability to serve the Hidden Leaf. (Similarly to how the Hyuuga basically owned the Hagoromo previously).
      • Perhaps the Nara could spin up a quick CBA on what a Gouketsu-Nara directed Hagoromo would look like? With graphs and pictures?
      • Repeated for emphasis: We might stand a lot to gain in his eyes by at least asking him about his preferences for how we go about this.
    • Make any preparations required.
  • Deliver Jiraiya's spy notes to Asuma ASAP. While there, update him on how things are going with the Dogs/Toads.
    • Let Asuma know Yuno's decided to marry Noburi, in a manner appropriate to Leaf customs.
      • There's the issue with the Hagoromo, though. <show him Hinata's letter>
      • Is this a problem?
    • Depending on Asuma's mood/response, let him know our plans for the Hagoromo.
      • We thought you would appreciate us coming to you before doing anything surprising or potentially unwise, sir. (Subtext: Lesson learned)
        • You are the Hokage, after all, and these are your ninja and your citizens too.
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Can we add Ami to the workshop-with list?

[X] Action Plan: Talk to Asuma EDITED
 
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Adhoc vote count started by eaglejarl on Oct 3, 2020 at 7:33 AM, finished with 61 posts and 15 votes.
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Voting closes at 1pm Eastern.
 
I still don't understand the reasoning behind refusing to tap Tsunade. She was willing to leave her work, break into Jiraiya's compound, and beat him senseless over the opportunity to enjoy a wedding, and we can offer gambling and an open bar on top of that.
 
Lailoken said:
I still don't understand the reasoning behind refusing to tap Tsunade. She was willing to leave her work, break into Jiraiya's compound, and beat him senseless over the opportunity to enjoy a wedding, and we can offer gambling and an open bar on top of that.
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To be fair, iirc, it was also Jiraiya's wedding that she was upset about not celebrating. I'm not sure she'd care as strongly about a non-teammate's wedding. Still, as her nephews, we should invite her to the actual ceremony.
 
Oneiros said:
That an alliance made with a foundation of fear and mistrust is much more likely to crumble than one made on love and respect. Forcing Yuno to marry simply for convenience sake is the type of thing Yagura would do. The will of fire demands that we are better than that

edit: probably try to invoke How Jiraiya and Hiruzen would always do what was necessary but would never be cruel simply for convenience
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Paperclipped said:
Can we add Ami to the workshop-with list?

[X] Action Plan: Talk to Asuma EDITED
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MMKII said:
Good point.

So we must—

Do exactly this! @faflec
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Done.
faflec said:
Biggest change is that we deliver the news about NoburixYuno alongside the Hagoromo plans, assuming Asuma seems to not be in a iwanttokillyouhazou mood.

[X] Action Plan: Talk to Asuma EDITED
Word Count: 294

Optimize with Mari, Noburi, Keiko, Ami, etc. as appropriate.
  • Our plans with the Hagoromo:
    • We should probably go talk to Asuma about this since he's the Hokage and last time us not talking with him had...well.
      • Ami mentioned "not destroying clans without a Kage's permission"...us Kagome'ing the Hagoromo without discussion isn't a good look, whereas talking to him may net us brownie points.
    • Workshop how (AND WHO) to approach him in a way that wouldn't set him off:
      • Argue that the Hagoromo's actions are endangering Leaf through this petty spat, given Yuno's wishes to marry Noburi.
        • An alliance built on a foundation of fear and mistrust is more likely to crumble than one built on love and respect.
      • Frame it as economic headbutting and making them our political pawn?
      • Emphasize that it won't affect their ability to serve Konoha (i.e., like how the Hyuga owned them previously).
      • Spin a quick CBA on what a Gouketsu/Nara-directed Hagoromo would look like, with graphs and pictures?
      • Emphasis: We might stand a lot to gain in his eyes by at least asking him about his preferences for how we go about this.
    • Make any preparations required.
  • Deliver Jiraiya's spy notes to Asuma ASAP. While there, update him on how things are going with the Dogs/Toads.
    • Let Asuma know Yuno's decided to marry Noburi, in a manner appropriate to Leaf customs.
      • There's the issue with the Hagoromo, though. <show him Hinata's letter>
      • Is this a problem?
    • Depending on Asuma's mood/response, let him know our plans for the Hagoromo.
      • We thought you would appreciate us coming to you before doing anything surprising or potentially unwise, sir. (Subtext: Lesson learned)
        • You are the Hokage, after all, and these are your ninja and your citizens too.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
faflec said:
  • Depending on Asuma's mood/response, let him know our plans for the Hagoromo.
    • We thought you would appreciate us coming to you before doing anything surprising or potentially unwise, sir. (Subtext: Lesson learned)
      • You are the Hokage, after all, and these are your ninja and your citizens too.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If Asuma expresses any hint of doubt, we should reference Hazou's revelation about the authority of a clan head during the GED Tragedy. It's a revelation that's one logical step away from what Asuma was talking about (the authority of a Hokage), and it would show Asuma that Hazou really does understand Asuma's perspective.
 
RandomOTP said:
If Asuma expresses any hint of doubt, we should reference Hazou's revelation about the authority of a clan head during the GED Tragedy. It's a revelation that's one logical step away from what Asuma was talking about (the authority of a Hokage), and it would show Asuma that Hazou really does understand Asuma's perspective.
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Done. How does this look?
faflec said:
Biggest change is that we deliver the news about NoburixYuno alongside the Hagoromo plans, assuming Asuma seems to not be in a iwanttokillyouhazou mood.

[X] Action Plan: Talk to Asuma EDITED
Word Count: 299

Optimize with Mari, Noburi, Keiko, Ami, etc. as appropriate.
  • Our plans with the Hagoromo:
    • We should probably go talk to Asuma about this since he's the Hokage and last time us not talking with him had...well.
      • Ami mentioned "not destroying clans without a Kage's permission"...us Kagome'ing the Hagoromo without discussion isn't a good look, whereas talking to him may net us brownie points.
    • Workshop how (AND WHO) to approach him in a way that wouldn't set him off:
      • Argue that the Hagoromo's actions are endangering Leaf through this petty spat, given Yuno's wishes to marry Noburi.
        • An alliance built on a foundation of fear and mistrust is more likely to crumble than one built on love and respect.
      • Frame it as economic headbutting and making them our political pawn?
      • Emphasize that it won't affect their ability to serve Konoha (like how the Hyuga owned them previously).
      • Spin a CBA on what a Gouketsu/Nara-directed Hagoromo would look like, with graphs and pictures?
      • Emphasis: We might stand a lot to gain in his eyes by at least asking him about his preferences for how we go about this.
    • Make any preparations required.
  • Deliver Jiraiya's spy notes to Asuma ASAP. While there, update him on how things are going with the Dogs/Toads.
    • Let Asuma know Yuno's decided to marry Noburi, in a manner appropriate to Leaf customs.
      • There's the issue with the Hagoromo, though. <show him Hinata's letter>
      • Is this a problem?
    • Depending on Asuma's mood/response, let him know our plans for the Hagoromo.
      • We thought you'd appreciate us coming to you before doing anything (Subtext: Lesson learned).
        • You're the Hokage, and these are your ninja and your citizens too.
        • If he doubts we've learned our lesson, reference our revelation in the wake of the Ikenaga affair.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
faflec said:
Depending on Asuma's mood/response, let him know our plans for the Hagoromo.
  • We thought you'd appreciate us coming to you before doing anything (Subtext: Lesson learned).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

What happens if Asuma tells Hazou to not do anything because it risks the stability of Leaf?

And if Hazou agrees (doubtful unless explicitly written into the plan), what will Ami and Keiko think about Hazou basically reneging on the implicit promise to humiliate the Hagoromo?

Not doing treason sounds amazing, no doubt. But maybe have this part be sanity checked by Keiko, Ami and/or Mari? The update did end with Hazou still being around the Mori sisters, so he could ask them about what they think of telling the Hokage and his assumed response to Hazou.
 
Tua said:
What happens if Asuma tells Hazou to not do anything because it risks the stability of Leaf?

And if Hazou agrees (doubtful unless explicitly written into the plan), what will Ami and Keiko think about Hazou basically reneging on the implicit promise to humiliate the Hagoromo?

Not doing treason sounds amazing, no doubt. But maybe have this part be sanity checked by Keiko, Ami and/or Mari? The update did end with Hazou still being around the Mori sisters, so he could ask them about what they think of telling the Hokage and his assumed response to Hazou.
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The whole plan is getting optimized, I can add to also sanity-check like this:
faflec said:
Biggest change is that we deliver the news about NoburixYuno alongside the Hagoromo plans, assuming Asuma seems to not be in a iwanttokillyouhazou mood.

[X] Action Plan: Talk to Asuma EDITED
Word Count: 298

Optimize/sanity-check with Mari, Noburi, Keiko, Ami, etc. as appropriate.
  • Our Hagoromo plans:
    • We should probably go talk to Asuma about this since he's the Hokage and last time us not talking with him had...well.
      • Ami mentioned "not destroying clans without a Kage's permission"...us Kagome'ing the Hagoromo without discussion isn't a good look, whereas talking to him may net us brownie points.
    • Workshop how (AND WHO) to approach him in a way that wouldn't set him off:
      • Argue that the Hagoromo's actions are endangering Leaf through this petty spat, given Yuno's wishes to marry Noburi.
        • An alliance built on a foundation of fear and mistrust is more likely to crumble than one built on love and respect.
      • Frame it as economic headbutting and making them our political pawn?
      • Emphasize that it won't affect their ability to serve Konoha (like how the Hyuga owned them previously).
      • Spin a CBA on what a Gouketsu/Nara-directed Hagoromo would look like, with graphs and pictures?
      • Emphasis: We might stand a lot to gain in his eyes by at least asking him about his preferences for how we go about this.
    • Make any preparations required.
  • Deliver Jiraiya's spy notes to Asuma ASAP. While there, update him on how things are going with the Dogs/Toads.
    • Let Asuma know Yuno's decided to marry Noburi, in a manner appropriate to Leaf customs.
      • There's the issue with the Hagoromo, though. <show him Hinata's letter>
      • Is this a problem?
    • Depending on Asuma's mood/response, let him know our plans for the Hagoromo.
      • We thought you'd appreciate us coming to you before doing anything (Subtext: Lesson learned).
        • You're the Hokage, and these are your ninja and your citizens too.
        • If he doubts we've learned our lesson, reference our revelation in the wake of the Ikenaga affair.
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Seriously, the only way we win this is with something Hinata doesn't see coming. Running crying to Asuma is something she will have seen coming. Tsunade being willing to destroy city blocks to get her wedding fix? Less so.
 
Lailoken said:
Seriously, the only way we win this is with something Hinata doesn't see coming. Running crying to Asuma is something she will have seen coming. Tsunade being willing to destroy city blocks to get her wedding fix? Less so.
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Hinata, like us, has limited resources to use in a mutable political landscape. This, coupled with the fact that Asuma has his own agency that Hinata cannot fundamentally change, means that it's still a good idea to do so.
It doesn't matter how well you know what you need to do when you don't have enough power to actually do everything.
Also, Tsunade is not willing to destroy city block for a wedding that isn't Jiraiya's, nor willing to deal with politics for our sake....now, if we made a long-term economic partnership with her charity, the situation could change.
 
Lord Marshal said:
Also, Tsunade is not willing to destroy city block for a wedding that isn't Jiraiya's, nor willing to deal with politics for our sake....now, if we made a long-term economic partnership with her charity, the situation could change.
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I'm down to help Tsunade. Her cause is pretty much an objective good that's seriously in line with Uplift philosophy.
 
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