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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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GlassOlive said:
Eaglejarl's post means any precautions will be worthless. The only thing we can do is avoid his attention, and seeking out information on someone is a bad way to do that.
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1: Eaglejarl did not say any precautions are worthless, he said if Orochimaru decides he wants to capture or kill us, he will succeed. Any info that can help us prevent him from MAKING that decision is still useful. Making ourselves an unviable target means he won't waste his time.
2: OROCHIMARU IS ALREADY AWARE OF US. He already knows about Hazou, and even expressed interest in taking him on as an apprentice. "Not getting his attention" isn't an option. "Not becoming a priority" IS an option.
 
Hey @Inferno Vulpix I have a thing for you.

[X] Action Plan: The Three Ps, Now With Added Kei
Word Count: 293
  • Ikeda's victims:
    • Ask Ino if Yamanaka memory-erasure jutsu could safely remove traumatic memories from kids. If viable, spare little expense.
    • Speak with the parents of the victims, offer profuse apologies and offers of compensation (monetary and otherwise).
      • In every instance portray yourself as a non-threat here to right a wrong you feel responsible for. Do NOT pressure them into anything.
      • Offer therapy or Yamanaka mindwipe (below) if available.
  • Improve whatever complaints system we have. Ikeda proves ours is insufficient.
    • Ask Gaku what system we have for policing/reporting abuse, then discuss with Mari possible improvements, like protecting whistleblowers or helping encourage victims to come forward.
      • Do research on Konoha's police force/investigatory body, as a model.
      • Beyond the formal system, what informal systems are civilians using? Who arbitrates their disputes?
    • Would Haru be a good fit for investigator? Aggression aside, he may enjoy investigating abuse of power cases.
  • Tell Keiko FOOM.
    • Prep: Check with Mari (at home, obfuscating terminology), especially if others (Ami) could deduce FOOM from Keiko's usage, even with the [below] obfuscations.
    • Setting: Max-OPSEC conditions.
    • CCnJ: We want to share a Clan Secret with you that cannot leak to anyone, especially Ami. Are you able to hold this secret under pressure, even if Ami discerns some of it herself and pushes you into revealing the rest?
      • Ask Keiko to summon Snowflake for her response.
    • Explain FOOM.
    • Bounce ideas to maintain OPSEC:
      • Training/getting chakra water via Seventh Path.
      • Sending Snowflake into the Gouketsu Compound under the excuse of "re-establishing relationships".
  • Ask Mari to speak with Anko, ostensibly to discuss clan matters but also to gather intel on Orochimaru.
  • Misc.:
    • Search for & hire local glassworkers to re-invent the telescope.
    • Pay our respect to Kakashi with those Dogs he knew well.
    • Continue projects.
 
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It's been brought to my attention that my post has skewed the discussion in one direction. Let me reiterate the last part of my post:

I am not weighing in on whether investigating Orochimaru is more likely to help or harm, I am simply making clear what the stakes are and that you should not count on narrativistic rescue.

To be clear: Investigating Orochimaru might hurt. It might also help. The only point of the announcement was to ensure that y'all did not decide casually.
 
faflec said:
Very minor changes, mostly adding telescope stuff (@Kiba) and spending some time with the Dogs. Let me know if you have concerns about this, or anything else in the plan.
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Thanks. Presumably, we will hire our own glassworkers, then search for more if we need more?

Also, regarding the complaint system: I wanted Hazo or someone else to investigate the system as it currently exists, formal and informal. There's formal systems, which are legible to us. What is illegible to us are informal systems civilians use to arbitrate dispute. These are the invisible systems that naturally crop up in societies to solve problems.

Gaku will likely give us only the former, not the latter. His perspective is from the top, not the bottom.

This way we can find people who are often called upon to arbitrate dispute.

So, we actually have to go out and talk to people, or using disarming proxies to ask them questions. Like: "Hey, how do we resolve dispute in this community."
 
I think it's just part "If Orochimaru decides he wants to cut you open, he will do so" mixed with the surprise news that "Hazou's death will result in a game over."
 
faflec said:
My understanding is that Gaku is a civilian and therefore can get us the bottom perspective? But I can add a note detailing the informal systems if there is no complaints elsewhere.
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He's a very incredibly busy man, at the top of the hierarchy that a civilian can get. He doesn't have time to learn the in and out that civilians use.
 
Kiba said:
He's a very incredibly busy man, at the top of the hierarchy that a civilian can get. He doesn't have time to learn the in and out that civilians use.
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Fair enough. Changes made to both my plans.
faflec said:
[X] Action Plan: Protect, Prevent, Promote
Word Count: 295
  • Ikeda's victims:
    • Ask Ino if Yamanaka memory-erasure jutsu could safely remove traumatic memories from kids. Be willing to offer a lot to purchase services, if viable.
    • Speak with the parents of the victims, offer profuse apologies and offers of compensation (monetary and otherwise).
      • In every instance portray yourself as a non-threat here to right a wrong you feel responsible for. Do NOT pressure them into anything.
      • Offer therapy or Yamanaka mindwipe (below) if available.
  • Improve whatever complaints system we have. Ikeda proves ours is insufficient.
    • Ask Gaku what system we have for policing/reporting abuse, then discuss with Mari possible improvements, like protecting whistleblowers or helping encourage victims to come forward.
      • Do research on Konoha's police force/investigatory body, as a model.
      • Beyond the formal system, what informal systems are civilians using? Who arbitrates their disputes?
    • Would Haru be a good fit for investigator? Aggression aside, he may enjoy investigating abuse of power cases.
  • Tell Keiko FOOM.
    • Prep: Check with Mari (at home, obfuscating terminology), especially if others (Ami) could deduce FOOM from Keiko's usage, even with the [below] obfuscations.
    • Setting: Max-OPSEC conditions.
    • CCnJ: We want to share a Clan Secret with you that cannotleak to anyone, especially Ami. Are you able to hold this secret under pressure, even if Ami discerns some of the secret herself and pushes you into revealing the rest?
      • Ask Keiko to summon Snowflake for her response.
    • Explain FOOM, then bounce ideas to maintain OPSEC. Examples:
      • Training/getting chakra water via Seventh Path.
      • Sending Snowflake into the Gouketsu Compound for training, under the excuse of "re-establishing relationships" or something.
  • Misc.:
    • Search for & hire local glassworkers to re-invent the telescope.
    • Spend time paying our respect to Kakashi with the Dogs, especially to those he knew well.
    • Continue preexisting research & projects.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
faflec said:
Hey @Inferno Vulpix I have a thing for you.

[X] Action Plan: The Three Ps, Now With Added Kei
Word Count: 293
  • Ikeda's victims:
    • Ask Ino if Yamanaka memory-erasure jutsu could safely remove traumatic memories from kids. If viable, spare little expense.
    • Speak with the parents of the victims, offer profuse apologies and offers of compensation (monetary and otherwise).
      • In every instance portray yourself as a non-threat here to right a wrong you feel responsible for. Do NOT pressure them into anything.
      • Offer therapy or Yamanaka mindwipe (below) if available.
  • Improve whatever complaints system we have. Ikeda proves ours is insufficient.
    • Ask Gaku what system we have for policing/reporting abuse, then discuss with Mari possible improvements, like protecting whistleblowers or helping encourage victims to come forward.
      • Do research on Konoha's police force/investigatory body, as a model.
      • Beyond the formal system, what informal systems are civilians using? Who arbitrates their disputes?
    • Would Haru be a good fit for investigator? Aggression aside, he may enjoy investigating abuse of power cases.
  • Tell Keiko FOOM.
    • Prep: Check with Mari (at home, obfuscating terminology), especially if others (Ami) could deduce FOOM from Keiko's usage, even with the [below] obfuscations.
    • Setting: Max-OPSEC conditions.
    • CCnJ: We want to share a Clan Secret with you that cannotleak to anyone, especially Ami. Are you able to hold this secret under pressure, even if Ami discerns some of it herself and pushes you into revealing the rest?
      • Ask Keiko to summon Snowflake for her response.
    • Explain FOOM.
    • Bounce ideas to maintain OPSEC:
      • Training/getting chakra water via Seventh Path.
      • Sending Snowflake into the Gouketsu Compound under the excuse of "re-establishing relationships".
  • Ask Mari to speak with Anko, ostensibly to discuss clan matters but also to gather intel on Orochimaru.
  • Misc.:
    • Search for & hire local glassworkers to re-invent the telescope.
    • Pay our respect to Kakashi with those Dogs he knew well.
    • Continue projects.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Shrooms said:
1: Eaglejarl did not say any precautions are worthless, he said if Orochimaru decides he wants to capture or kill us, he will succeed. Any info that can help us prevent him from MAKING that decision is still useful. Making ourselves an unviable target means he won't waste his time.
2: OROCHIMARU IS ALREADY AWARE OF US. He already knows about Hazou, and even expressed interest in taking him on as an apprentice. "Not getting his attention" isn't an option. "Not becoming a priority" IS an option.
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We can learn about him all we want, but we aren't going to be able to influence his decision making. I reread the meeting with him, and my take is that he was kind of interested in us, but as he obviously hasn't done anything about it, he has other things to do, ones that don't have him go through the hassle of politics.

If we investigate him, and he hears about it, there's a chance that bumps us up his priority list. All the things he wants us for aren't controllable - the Iron Nerve bloodline, sealing, summons, changing things with Uplift - we aren't going to stop doing those. And Orochimaru is an S-rank who is doing cutting-edge research. He isn't likely to suddenly see the power of our lateral thinking as worth keeping us around found. And to be honest, given his genjutsu seals, he could probably brainwash us. Plus, eaglejarl's post makes me feel any deadman switches would just be a waste of time and not accomplish anything.

I'd actually be okay with trying to ask the Toads about him because there's absolutely no way that gets back to Orochimaru. But it's been months since we got kicked out of the house and nothing has happened yet. If anything, he'd kidnap missing nin or a clan ninja who isn't a clan head.
 
[X] Action Plan: Sit Down and Read

Sit at your desk for a day and comb through Jiraiya's journals. Anything interesting in there about Orochimaru?

Make sure all your various projects are on track with some meetings at mealtime as well.

Have Nobs ask the Toads about Oro as well. They were close with the J-man and so probably have some amount of info.
 
faflec said:
I mean, if Orochimaru wanted to gather data on us and also wanted to stay in Leaf, would it be that surprising that he could sneak into our rooms in the middle of the night to collect samples without anyone else being the wiser?
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Either he's gone that far, and learning about him isn't going to do anything, or he hasn't gone that far and we should keep off of his radar.

[x] Action Plan: Sit Down and Read
 
MMKII said:
[X] Action Plan: Sit Down and Read

Sit at your desk for a day and comb through Jiraiya's journals. Anything interesting in there about Orochimaru?

Make sure all your various projects are on track with some meetings at mealtime as well.

Have Nobs ask the Toads about Oro as well. They were close with the J-man and so probably have some amount of info.
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Click to shrink...

So let me just steelman this plan crafted by this extremely handsome (or insert positive adjective of choice, I'm not really sure which they'd prefer here but I'm trying my luck) individual.

Plan length:

Man, this one knocks it out of the park. Really, a thing of beauty. It could use a bit of trimming, but sometimes the beauty is in the fine grained stuff.

Intel:

Man, this is some good stuff. Jiraiya's journals! Wow that'd be real cool to read. Who else would have a better perspective on Orochimaru (aside from the folks who were uh... well, I'm eating so nevermind). And we could get Nobby to talk to the Toads! Who doesn't want more Noburi content? Can't argue with these returns.

Safety:

It's got that in spades. What problems could this possibly cause? When have books and paperwork ever hurt us? Except that one time, I guess.

Perhaps a 99.99% survival rate. A bit risky and dangerous I know, but really I think we need to go out a limb here. Still, I have faith all will turn out well.

Telescopes:
This advances the telescope plotline in a satisfying manner by not advancing it in an unsatisfying manner. What more can I say?

Hazou:

Hazou's dumb ass couldn't possibly screw this one up! He can definitely read (As far as I am aware. Perhaps a dangerous assumption. @faflec?) and he has a stellar record of doing administrative stuff during meals. Except those couple times, I guess...


(Hmm. Maybe I am not as good at this as I thought.)

Conclusion:

You should all vote for this since it does all of the things you care about.
 
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