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We should start by looking at the Toad Summoning Scroll, since that's what Minato would have had the most access to. Maybe we could try downloading it?

I think thats a bit premature. Lets begin by reading Jiraiya's journals to see if theres any mention of him training Minato in the summoning technique.

Jiraiya complains a lot, he'll definitely bitch about it since it takes like months, so it'll be in there.
 
@faflec loremaster request: is there WOG on how long Wakahisa barrels retain chakra in the absence of a Wakahisa?

E:
Is it just me or does this sound insufficient (height-wise) to keep Charka beasts out? Because as I understood, this is on the outside of Konoha's walls? Given the previous occupants of this land, slightly worrying... (In the short-term the area has been cleared, but this might need more investment in the future.)
I'd argue it depends on the chakra beast. The terror-harpies and the chakra-voles were never going to be kept out by a wall anyway, but the smaller or small-mid sized surface-dwelling ones will be deterred.
 
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@faflec loremaster request: is there WOG on how long Wakahisa barrels retain chakra in the absence of a Wakahisa?
In the absence of a Wakahisa? I don't think it's any different than when a Wakahisa is present, at least according to the rulesdoc. Us taking Kiri's barrel and being able to siphon chakra from it without issue suggests that the chakra shouldn't leak any more than a miniscule amount, at least over 24 hours.
 
@faflec loremaster request: is there WOG on how long Wakahisa barrels retain chakra in the absence of a Wakahisa?

forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Naruto reimagined as a deathworld without most of the canon plot holes.

To answer your questions:
  • Wakahisa have a certain amount of chakra that they can keep trapped in water at a time. (50 * Chakra Reserves skill)
  • It doesn't matter how it's divvied up -- in their barrel, in a canteen, etc.
  • It leaks away at rates dependent on what it's in. If it's in uncontained water then it's gone in a round or so. In a canteen it's minutes or hours. In their Wakahisa-family-secrets special barrel it's long enough that it doesn't really matter for most purposes. There have been times in game where we've seen water kept in other things than a barrel:
    • Noburi has a camelback that Kagome made for him in which he keeps water that he can use as a backup store in case the barrel isn't available.
    • When the team crossed the Hanguri gulf and nearly got eaten by the megalodon, they were all carrying canteens loaded with his chakra water.
    • When Neji and Noburi sparred in Leaf's swamp, Noburi drained Neji and stored the chakra (very briefly) in the swamp water, pulling it out and turning it into a Water Whip right away before it could disperse.
  • No, a Wakahisa barrel cannot be put in a storage seal and neither can chakra water.

Is more or less all we have on it.
 
"Cool. After that, pin Doctor Yakushi down and beat him like a festival horse until he gives us the results of his tests on Noburi." His eyes went wide as he suddenly noticed his wording. "Not literally! Don't literally injure him, just convince him, in socially acceptable ways that will not cause us problems, to stop faffing around and tell us what we need to know."

"On it." The redhead was uncharacteristically serious, bordering on grim. Hazō made a mental note to keep track of that; the last thing he needed was his social expert breaking from one too many accumulated shocks.
I'd just like to point out how awesome Hazō is being here. Noticing his potential fuck up and correcting it, and then noticing that Mari might be being unstable. He's come a long way from being Mr. Foot-In-Mouth, and it's showing.

"Pfah!" Noburi made an effort to shake off the aggravation. "I guess I'll just have to settle for dropping Gamabunta on your head any time you and your clones get too uppity, Mr Mew. Since, y'know, I'm going to be the most utterly overpowered Summoner there's ever been." He grinned. "Seriously, I'll charm the socks off the Toads and have them lining up to make contracts with me, and then I'll be able to summon ALL of them. An entire clan of Toads, raining down on my enemies! Beat that, Mr Me-And-My-Clones-Are-So-Awesome."
We might want to make sure Noburi's feeling okay about this. He seems like he might be legitimately worried about falling behind. Let's not let one of the few pillars of sanity in Gōketsu end up like the rest of us.

  1. Focus on getting the Merchant Council to authorize the ideas you've already pitched them. (1. The storage seal subscription service and 2. the storage seal bank.) If you leave them alone then it will probably take them a week-ish to decide if they want to let you do one or both of those. If you sic Mari on them that can probably be sped up.
  2. Pitch new ideas to the Merchant Council.
We should hold off on 2 until after 1 is complete. If we start pushing too many ideas through the MC at once they'll freak out. If we let them pass these first two ideas though, and let them see how the world doesn't immediately go crazy, they'll be much more likely to accept the other ideas.

Try to organize a jutsu exchange pool as described in the chapter
This actually sounds like a very interesting idea.

Try to push your way into the negotiations happening with Rock
NOOOOOOOOPE.

Send out some of your ninja, possibly with Noburi and his mist drain, to capture chakra critters and start building your chakra farm
Hmmm. This is a lot more viable now, since we can keep the enclosure outside of Leaf and away from the Shimura compound.

As a start for brainstorming, how about:
- Location: Far away from the Shimura compound and the walls of Leaf.
- Structure: dig a wide but very shallow (~1-2 ft deep) pit. Make MEW walls. Make sure the walls are extra thick.
- Water supply: Divert a small stream to run through the pit, keeping it submerged in water at all times. Make MEW grates in the wall to allow the water in one side and out the other.
- Chakra Beasts: Use chakra drain to collect plant and fish type chakra beasts. Ideally ones that don't prey on each other. Make sure that none of them can climb the walls, and that everything is large enough that it can't escape through the grate.
- Feeding: Climb the walls, throw in whatever you think they eat. The plants should be able to survive on sunlight, dirt, and water. The fish are the main things you'll need to feed. Probably cut up some chakra beasts and toss them in every day (drain first).
- Draining: Noburi can stick his finger in the stream (probably best to stand upstream) and drain the inhabitants.
- Adding More Beasts: Drain, and toss over the walls. In the long run we'll probably have a lot of the inhabitants die out or eat each other, but I expect enough to survive that they can repopulate it through mating.
 
Yes, we're trying to check if we've said anything extra in-thread that wasn't incorporated into that section
Ah, never mind then, didn't realize you wanted to check other sources. Here you go:
Noburi can put as much chakra as he wants into his water up to the limit of his capacity. Note that Wakahisa barrels retain chakra in the water indefinitely, but only if in close proximity (arms length at most) to a Wakahisa. If away from one for more than a few minutes, they start losing chakra at the same rate as any container. Typically a container will lose all its chakra within 2-6 hours, but sometimes its much slower or faster. (Watsonian: Rate is variable, depending on many difficult-to-predict factors. Doylist: We aren't going to keep track of it and will just use our best judgement in each case.)
 
Vote time! What to do now? Options, not all of which are necessarily good ideas, include:

  1. Focus on getting the Merchant Council to authorize the ideas you've already pitched them. (1. The storage seal subscription service and 2. the storage seal bank.) If you leave them alone then it will probably take them a week-ish to decide if they want to let you do one or both of those. If you sic Mari on them that can probably be sped up.
  2. Pitch new ideas to the Merchant Council.
  3. Take some resources (lumber, dead animals, artwork...) and try to find markets for it outside the city
  4. Make seals
  5. Look for students for Kagome-sensei
  6. Find Ebisu (if he's still alive) and see if he's ready to get started on the 'train KEI ninja' project
  7. Try to push your way into the negotiations happening with Rock
  8. Do something with that iron mine that you bought in the southwest of Fire
  9. Push the other clans to elect a Hokage
  10. Clear more land
  11. Focus on improving the land you have enough that it becomes a sufficiently attractive place to live that you can recruit more KEI ninja to live there
  12. Try to organize a jutsu exchange pool as described in the chapter
  13. Try to buy jutsu from KEI ninja or from clan ninja
  14. Use HLAM to go scouting/scavenging underground. Do you tell anyone that you're doing it?
  15. Start the process of setting up an actual school on your property. Do you ask permission from anyone?
  16. Talk to someone (Asuma? Shikamaru?) about what they would want in exchange for helping you get the Snake and/or Dog scrolls.
  17. Push Keiko about the Pangolin project
  18. Send out some of your ninja, possibly with Noburi and his mist drain, to capture chakra critters and start building your chakra farm
  19. Get the family to sign off on the idea that you are not crazy and no long need a minder
  20. Write-in

I would preferred options to be limited to the five most likely ideas that Hazo would think of. These are likely to be the most reasonable and sane, although it may not be good ideas.
 
Plan Cache is up! I would like to particularly draw attention to the 'Rocks Fell, Everyone Died' plan that tied last cycle, as much of its actions can still likely be performed.
Actually I have a suggestion. Don't do the Naruto explanation bit. Instead, have Noburi do it. It sounds better coming from a teammate. Noburi will call us an idiot and a genius, and then explain how it's up to the clan to keep Hazo's idiocy in check, letting the moments of genius shine through.

If Hazo does it, it sounds like excuses. If Noburi does it, it's just a fact of life, a quirk of the clan.
 
I don't want to be the guy that brings this up, but I'll be the guy that brings this up:

Both Kabuto and Orochimaru know the summoning technique, apparently? The latter is true, and the former was very heavily implied to be a thing IIRC, if not outright stated.

Failing that... well, Takahashi seems to need a bail out in the near future.

Coincidentally Leaf could use a couple hundred extra ninja now.
....I'll be honest here, I am not at all comfortable with leaving Noburi alone with the creepy, powerful bad-touch snakeman alone with a kid with a bloodline he's shown interest in "studying" and Noburi probably isn't either.
 
Is it just me or does this sound insufficient (height-wise) to keep Charka beasts out? Because as I understood, this is on the outside of Konoha's walls? Given the previous occupants of this land, slightly worrying... (In the short-term the area has been cleared, but this might need more investment in the future.)
It's enough for now and Hazo could probably take a few hours to build it up further everyday. Maybe a good 3 to 4 hours a day in the morning for the next few weeks.
 
Yeah.

So here's the thing:

1) Flying Thunder God is a spacetime technique that uses both sealing and a jutsu to facilitate its OP-ness.
(Presumably) You cast a jutsu, and this 'ports you over to the FTG seal.

2) Reverse Summoning is a spacetime technique which works by porting the summoner to the location of the Summon performing the technique, and then back to the human realm where the summoning scroll is.


Strip away the trappings, and that sounds damn similar to me. Now, Jiraiya wasn't really a technique hacker (I don't think) and he didn't necessarily have a "Flip it upside down" mentality when it came to some of the stuff he had access to. Furthermore, there appears to be some very strong ingrained resistance to Summoners fucking with the Summoning Technique (perhaps with good reason). Minato was Mr. Super Genius though, and was J Man's apprentice, so its not unreasonable he learned the Summoning Technique just in case Jiraiya kicked the bucket one day.

So what I propose might be what happened (or might give similar results) is:

1) The jutsu part of FTG is some TH'd variant of the Summoning Technique.

2) The seal part is some sort of self-summoning contract-- just the identity and beacon parts for the RS technique. So any existing seal designs for this are "Seal that is the contract between Minato Namikaze and Minato Namikaze to let Minato Namikaze dismiss Minato Namikaze to the seal's location." This modification actually makes things easier to make for the Sealmaster, ironically, much in the same way that hardcoding stuff would be easier than making an extremely complex and robust system (as far as eldritch computer science goes anyway).

TL;DR We should look into that, and upon finding positive evidence maybe decide to throw XP into the requisite abilities and time into the requisite veterancy bonuses and then start pulling cosmic levers that people keep yelling at us to never ever touch (but definitely don't tell them, they'll throw us into a volcano).

...

...

I mean, it beats spending more XP on Athletics and Substitution. Fuck that shit!
So theoretically FTG could just be a variation of reverse summoning yourself?

That's fucking genius
 
We can erect temporary palisade until Hazo walled it off completely, with other users. There are other users with MEW right? Or is Hazo the only one?
 
The Inuzuka must have cast-offs. Dogs which just didn't quite measure up to being bound to a specific shinobi. Gee, would they perhaps be inclined to donate a few to that nice big farm upstate with oodles of grateful-affectionate humans with lots of petting and treats and even plenty of fun chakra monsters to mutilate if they get too close to the barrier containing friend-humans?



A huge waste of time. We don't know a thing about what rock wants.

At this point Rock is even more confused than we are.


I will vote for any plan that interfaces with the higher up or deal in some fashion with rock.

"Hello, we're the world's youngest and least legitimate clan founded by a madman during a violent coup and best known for spontaneously destabilizing the everything out of everything. We'd like to forcibly insert ourselves into these delicate negotiations which may or may not directly result in WWIV."


Just a reminder:

No matter what we do, it is absolutely imperative that we get Noburi started on the summoning training.

Noburi's bloodline, combined with a pile of otherwise useless chakra batteries a dozen or two Genin, and his genuinely likeable (he is probably the most inherently likeable character in the cast to people in universe, bar Mari) personality would allow him to essentially serve as his own One Man Army, the scale of which would put the Pangolin Pain Train of Event 5 to shame in its magnanimous roflstompitude.

This is besides any nigh-instantaneous super logistical OP bullshit nonsense we'd be able to do with Keiko and Noburi both having summoning contracts.

Get this man a summoning scroll.

Also, taunt Neji.



One thing we can do to determine if we have enough chakra for SC is to have Noburi observe how much chakra a user has before and after using the technique; since a dispelled Shadow Clone gives its chakra back to the original (at least, that's how Naruto acts about it), the difference in chakra levels before and after the use should tell us how much the flat cost SC has.

Related: Hey @Lailoken Noburi talked to Keiko about your Pangolin plan. Aren't you happy?

My observation is actually extant in the universe. Yayyyy!

I have surely doomed us all...
 
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