We have no idea what the trial will involve or where it will take place. The villagers could use any number of excuses to separate us just by saying "Do as we command or you don't get the scroll."
Blindly going along with an agreement made behind closed doors was the exact same mistake we made by trusting Elder Kannagi.
We need a better plan than 'Crossing our fingers while we spring the trap.'
In the meantime, can we make a killing field around the entrance to our cave? We probably have some defences, because Kagome, but if we're going to be sitting pretty next two weeks, I want this place as deadly as possible. Have Hazou make more tags, can't have Kagome doing all the work.
Also should ask Taka if he can take Mari along like last time. Yes or no, this tells us something.
And srsly, clones with picks for the backoor. Mari can make a dozen, Nobby can make three. Rubble goes into sealing scrolls, we can mass-produce those now.
Hm...I have a thought about Yuno. She's born a Gasai and was 'given' to the Kannagi to keep tensions from boiling over, BUT this was not an official marriage or betrothal or anything. Right NOW the Gasai have been kicked to second-class (i.e., not part of the council) and have been replaced by the Kannagi, who have used Yuno (former Gasai) as a pawn.
Does anyone else think it's possible the Gasai would try to spite the Kannagi by trying to take Yuno back and/or annulling the marriage? Could we convince the village and/or Yuno of this?
Kagome's implosion seals work by sealing the air around them, then being destroyed by the onrushing air. Could we arrange to get such a seal that doesn't get destroyed, thus giving our cave an air supply to make it harder to attack?
Kagome's implosion seals work by sealing the air around them, then being destroyed by the onrushing air. Could we arrange to get such a seal that doesn't get destroyed, thus giving our cave an air supply to make it harder to attack?
it's not a bad thought but it'd only really be useful in cases where we get caved-in on in airtight fashion. Which is possible but at that point we'd be fucked anyway since we don't have a good way out. Better to prevent, not mitigate.
Could TH be used to create a more durable henge, enough so that a rough jostle would not break the henge?
Plans... Secret someone away have the rest of team cover the absence while the hidden member sets the town up the bomb. I don't know, I have lost track of what the freaking plan has been a while ago. We get scroll is all I can seem to remember, with something about making this town a base or something. Yuno might be spouting falsehoods, or else she is suffering from PTSD and I can't help but want to help her out as this town is a toxic environment for her. I am emotionally and mentally exhausted trying to keep up with this place.
The Akimichi techniques had to come from somewhere.
Edit: Also, Jiraiya kicked our collective arses without breaking henge. Either henge durability increases with level or someone Hacked a henge that can withstand jonin level taijutsu.
The Akimichi techniques had to come from somewhere.
Edit: Also, Jiraiya kicked our collective arses without breaking henge. Either henge durability increases with level or someone Hacked a henge that can withstand jonin level taijutsu.
A powerful two-handed palm thrust punched through two clones in a row, causing them to explode outwards in a big burst of water – just as Inoue-sensei reached them. The sudden splash of water into her face caused her to do arguably the worst thing one could do in a high-level ninja battle. She blinked.
[X] Action Plan : Lore Update
- This is a backup plan to buy us some time to think if we need it.
- Preference: Geopolitics, Lore about the VHitM, Sealing History and its major figures.
- We've gotten wonderful character development and personal history in previous lore updates. But I want to see a bit more of your world-building too.
I'd appreciate if at least 2-3 other people put in default votes for this plan just so we don't vote in a plan without consensus at the last minute. I figure a 3-4 vote threshold to actually do something in story is reasonable given how big a deal the next few updates will be.
Edit: If this plan already has a few votes, please don't vote for it unless you believe it is legitimately better than EVERY other plan.
The point is to make it slightly harder for us to do something without thinking it through and getting some consensus. I worry that if everyone votes for it because they'd be fine with it or think it is better than at least one of the proposed plans, we'd never progress with the actual story.
In the interest of expediency, I'm going to list a few ideas I've had since reading the latest update. Later on, I hope I'll have the time to use them in a proto-plan, but this list is just a way for all of you to see what I'm thinking and then to critique it.
Why do we need to fight the villagers instead of talking about our wants and needs and then negotiating like adults?
We've already had a positive experience with the Aida by healing their elder
We haven't had either a positive or negative experience with the Inoue, despite their alleged all-consuming dislike of us.
We can make a speech about how we were once betrayed by our own superiors and have seen what happens when a village's leaders conspire against each other (Yagura vs Shikigami). We also have the opportunity to make a village wide-reveal of our true identities to remove Takahashi's blackmail-material over us (which we learned from Mari, yay)
We could then make a decree that we will not take the scroll; we will wait until every village elder consents to allow us access to complete the trial.
Just like how we remember being forced to go along with one malcontent's scheme, we will not force anyone to break their most sacred beliefs.
We could then encourage the villagers to foster complete cooperation by explaining how we could help improve their defenses from outsiders, covertly bring in exotic goods to raise the standard of living for everyone in the village, and/or maybe even offer them some new techniques in exchange for permission to leave, access to the scroll, and/or acting as our own political entity rather than getting assimilated into the existing clans.
Where are we getting our information from?
Takahashi could be feeding us misinformation and half-truths about the village's lore
He has claimed that the actual lore-keepers of the village will never treat with us, but we have not had any intel from said lore-keepers themselves if they want to speak with us.
The same goes for all of the other clans we have not had a chance to talk with; they are hostile towards us, but we aren't going to improve this situation by strong-arming them into conceding their most precious religious artifact(s).
I don't trust Takahashi, but I would like to offer him an alternative to his proposed plan of removing the scroll from the village.
If his true motive for his actions really is transitioning the village away from obsessing over the scroll to focusing on actually being a village, we can offer him ideas to improve his home, rather than weaken it.
We can prepare a speech similar to his "ants and their queen reasoning to remove the scroll" (will begin composing said lengthy analogy in another post)
If he really just wants to remove the scroll so that his clan, as the majority of nin-jutsu users, gains an upper hand in village politics, we can do the village a service by exposing his plot to weaken the village (the seal users have derived seals from the scroll; without it, theoretically they would have a harder time designing new seals).
We don't need to time-skip to the day of the summoner trial if we don't have to; might as well use the two weeks we have to placate as many potential malcontents beforehand that we can. If we can't convince the Aida and the Inoue clans to accept that the rest of the village wants to let us have a crack at the summoning scroll we can just go along with Takahashi's plan (to a degree).
Of course, I'd still like to prepare any defenses we can, just in case. It would also give Kagome something to do while the majority of our team try to prevent from having to use any defenses we will be making.
There would be a slight risk to our lives in that we would be asking to negotiate with people who consider us to be evil outsiders, but that at least should get us some XP and if they attack us they will lose significant face with the rest of the elders who sorta like/tolerate us.
"You were most insistent on seeing me, Yoshino," the elder Takahashi said, calmly sipping his tea. "Almost to the point of rudeness."
Inoue gave him a shallow nod of acknowledgement. "'Almost' being the key word," she said with a smile. "I'm sure you understand my concern for my student. The deal you pressured her into making is stringent. I don't have an explicit problem with it, as long as I'm sure that it is what it seems to be."
Takahashi raised an elegant eyebrow. "Are you questioning my integrity in my own home?"
Inoue shook her head. "Of course not, sir. No, I am simply concerned for my student. I find myself confused why you would be willing to train her in summoning. We are outsiders; why not train your daughter, or one of your grandchildren?"
Takahashi pondered that. For several long minutes the room remained utterly silent except for the tiny sounds of tea being sipped.
"I think I shall answer that at another time," he said. "In the meantime, I would like to know more about you. For example, what are your hobbies? Myself, I enjoy studying plants and animals. Especially ants."
Inoue didn't allow her face to move. "I am not familiar with ants, sir," she said. "What is it you find so interesting about them?"
"Fascinating creatures," Takahashi said. "They form villages, build giant and complex hives, and manage a complex society. It is a warlike society, though. If members of two anthills meet, they usually go to war and the smaller hill is wiped out. The ants from the larger hill will go down the tunnels of the smaller one, wipe out every ant they find, and plunder the food stores and other treasures of the smaller hill."
He paused, sipping his tea in thought. "I often wonder about this warlike nature," he said, his voice far away. "Ant society is so rigid, with no possibility for change or growth, no option to find different ways that might be better. There is only one queen, of course, and she is guarded with religious fervor. Suppose there were no queen? Suppose ants from another hill snuck in and stole her away? What would the remaining ants do with no queen? They would need to find a new purpose in life, and perhaps that purpose would allow them to become more than they had been."
The far away tone dropped away and he looked Inoue straight in the eyes. "Of course, such a thing is unimaginable. Were any of the local ants to recognize the purpose of these invaders they would be attacked immediately. Ants have no regard for their own lives when their queen is threatened, and would fling themselves suicidally on any invader who showed such thievish intent."
He laughed and shook his head regretfully. "Look at me, rambling on about impossible things. I do apologize; when you get to my age the wits tend to wander and one grows boring."
Inoue sipped her tea and smiled. "Not at all," she said. "I find it fascinating."
Now for that analogy I promised (ideally, composed by Hazou and team in game and delivered by Mari):
"Please forgive my rudeness earlier, Elder Takahashi. After you had told me about your insights about ants I should have returned the pleasantries by replying with one from my culture. Just as you told me about the ants you are familiar with, allow me to regale you with the fascinating, naturally occurring symbiosis between two drastically different species from when I was a child.
"You see, where we come from, there are multiple tide pools; pools where water from the ocean coalesces as the tides ebb and flow. However, after some storms the sea becomes so violent that the crabs that live near the shore get flung into otherwise dry holes on the beach. These crabs, after living in a constant state of peril on the shore due to the aquatic predators lurking in the deeper water, find themselves in a veritable paradise.
"All tide pools contain a microcosm of the shoreline, but without the crabs' natural predators. In time, especially for some of the larger, deeper pools, the crabs themselves climb to the top of the new food chain and flourish.
"However, every tide pool, no matter its size, disappears under the unforgiving sun. The water the crabs live in evaporates too quickly for the storms that carry enough water to replenish the pools to save the crabs. The crabs could endure a few short excursions outside of the water, but none could ever forego it completely indefinitely.
"The poor crabs, in their desperation, fought amongst themselves, cannibalizing each other so that the numbers would dwindle to such a degree that the dwindling amount of water would be enough to sustain the strongest. Even then, though, seagulls would see the crabs in their predicament and swoop down to snatch away the crabs at the gulls' leisure. Over time, nowhere in the pool was deep enough to protect the crabs from each other or the birds who feasted upon them. Occasionally, the crabs would band together to take down and eat a careless gull, but for the most part the gulls were simply too strong for crabs to fend off.
"Some pelicans, large birds with beaks large enough to swallow fish whole, landed in such tide pools on the verge of starting to evaporate. The crabs initially sought to subdue and eat the pelicans just as they tried to do so with the sea gulls, but the pelicans had no interest in eating the crabs; after all, the pelicans only ate fish. The pelicans proved to be too strong for the crabs to eat, but in the struggle the crabs learned why the pelicans had rested in the tide pool in the first place: the sea gulls had forced the pelicans away from said pelicans' nests. The pelicans were too large to fight off the many smaller sea gulls and had retreated to the tide pools to rest and recuperate. The pelicans had nothing to eat in the tide pool though; all of the fish had been eaten long ago by the crabs and the crabs themselves were too spiky for the pelicans to swallow whole.
"When the crabs first saw one of their own captured in the beak of the pelican, they were furious. Even though the seagulls ate some of the crabs, they did not take any water in their beaks like the pelicans did when they tried to eat the crabs in desperation. As the crabs banded together to force the pelicans away or die trying, a few of the crabs were stuck in the pelicans' gullets. The pelicans flew away before they suffered any serious harm from the attacking crabs, but in their haste they did not have the time to spit out the crabs already in their throats. Unfortunately for both the crabs and the pelicans, when the crabs tore through the pelicans' esophagi to kill their accidental abductors, the crabs fell into the ocean and all were quickly eaten by their old predators lurking in the deep. The remaining crabs in the tide pool died even more quickly due to the pelicans taking away a sizable portion of their water.
"That is, until something strange occurred. You see, the pelicans were forced out from their nests by the seagulls because the seagulls needed their nests to be as far away from the crabs as possible. At night, some crabs had learned to expand their food supply by sneaking into the seagull's nests in revenge and eating the eggs within. The pelicans' nests and egg shells were too thick for the crabs to penetrate, but the gulls could force the pelicans out and steal the larger nests for themselves.
"Some pelicans noticed this behavior and showed incredible foresight for animals by flying all the way to the ocean and filling their enormous beaks to the brim with seawater. They then carried that water carefully to a tide pool and dispersed some of it there. The pelicans left enough in their throat punches that, when they scooped up some of the egg-eating crabs, those crabs did not immediately attack.
"These ingenious birds then deposited the crabs in an otherwise empty tide pool that had seagull-claimed nests nearby and continued to bring water to the pool so that the crabs would not die. In time, the crabs had to venture out from the pool to feed themselves and fed upon the eggs they found.
"In time, the crabs learned to associate the pelicans not as predators but as allies; without nests to raise their young, the seagulls eventually left both the crabs and the pelicans alone. Regardless, the pelicans continued to bring water to the crabs as a way to maintain their make-shift agreement so that if the gulls ever returned, both the pelicans and the crabs would be ready. The longer the symbiosis continued, the more the crabs began to remain calm in the pelican's throat pouches so that the pelicans could take the crabs to even further tide pools to chase away any nests the gulls could make. Before we left our homes to go on our doomed mission, there were even rumors that the pelicans and the crabs were learning how to make pools, not just refill them.
"How fortunate for the crabs and the pelicans, then, that they came to such a partnership! Imagine what would have happened if the crabs never learned to trust the pelicans to bring them water, or how the pelicans trusted the crabs with their lives when they transported the crabs in their throats! Why, the seagulls would still be dominating the coastline, apathetic to the plights of their animal adversaries. I suppose that the original pool full of egg-eating crabs would have dried up just as all the others had and the pelicans would still have been forced from their nests.
"I wonder, how the pelicans and crabs ever learned to work with each other in the first place? We know what happened, but no one is sure why it happened. Was it a quirk of fate? Did the pelicans purposefully fly over an empty tide pool when they were forced to spit out the egg-eating crabs? Did the crabs realize their pool was dwindling and chose to risk their lives for the faintest chance at survival?"
Mari blinked.
"I apologize for prattling on so much about two species when you only told me about one. I suppose I just consider them inseparable after all of these years; no one ever sees either the crabs or the pelicans back in Water Country without seeing the other shortly. Still, it's strange to think how far their nests and pools have expanded at the cost of the seagull's. If the crabs and pelicans continued at their current rank, I think there might not be any seagulls left back in my childhood home."
Mari paused, then bowed.
"Thank you for your time, elder. I hope you enjoyed learning about the animals I used to see daily."
I'm curious as to what all y'all think of... that.
I don't want to give my intended interpretation yet so that I don't skew anyone's perspective with my own.
"It seems our assumptions about the Multiple Earth Wall Technique were incorrect. Wherever it draws its matter from, it is not the immediately surrounding rock. In other words, we will not be able to use it to excavate an escape tunnel. Unless we can find another means of doing so, we will be forced to remain here and face the elders' plotting in the arena of their choosing, which is to say social and political manipulation."
@eaglejarl, @Velorien, @Jackercracks : Could we get an IC estimate of tunnel length needed for a useful escape hatch? Likewise estimated time to dig the tunnel? assuming chakra assisted digging, storing excavated soil in storage scrolls for transport/disposal, and with timber braces?
But Noburi had firmly vetoed the motion. The day he needed to use diagrams to figure out dating was the day he legally changed his name to Kurosawa Hazō.
"Have you tried not being a loner when everybody avoids you?" she demanded angrily. "I'm supposed to be a good little girl, and follow all the rules – but that won't stop people calling me cursed, or saying I'm a shame to my family, or spreading horrible rumours many of which aren't even true, or being afraid I'm going to go crazy and attack them or something when I've never seriously hurt anybody! And then somehow I'm supposed to make strong bonds with people when no one will even look me in the eye."
Yup, I know exactly how that is. @Velorien, this bit hit me in the gut. Good on you.
Assuming that Nobby is genuinely interested and likes her, this makes me much less wary of outcomes where Yuno leaves with us.
The people I know who are put in situations like this tend to latch onto the people/group that actually acknowledge them. They're likely to have some self-destructive tendencies, but assuming that the group is paying attention and actively mitigates then, that can be handled. In the short-term, I'd expect Yuno would start caring about the wellbeing of the group as whole, to the point of being a bit unhealthy. In the long-term, with a few years of healthy relationships within the group and healthy relationships with others outside of the group they can become much more stable and happy.
There are a few major failure modes for this.
First, Yuno might see the group as constantly slighting Nobby, and using that to pull him away from us. Basically the usual way Yoko Ono's dynamic with the Beatles is represented.
Second, being in a relationship with someone like this is tiring. It takes really good communication, mutual trust, a willingness among both parties to accept criticism and not hold grudges, and even with all of that, Nobby will have to be incredibly patient with Yuno as she becomes better adjusted. I've seen many relationships like this that break down because of that stress. Given that both partners are teenage explosive murder-balls, this would be a problem.
Third, Yuno might be more insane than "lonely and depressed". This seems unlikely, given her upbringing is basically a textbook breeding ground for depression, and the base rate for other forms of insanity is pretty low.
So, to sum up. I'm still wary of her coming with us, but much less than before. If she does, it's much more likely to be a problem we can deal with without killing her. The main caveat is that my analysis is based on our modern society, so my base rates and expectations of healthy may be off.
"Master Takahashi," a voice came from outside the room. "Forgive me for interrupting, but Elder Aida is here to speak with you. It seems she wishes to discuss the recent hunting incident."
Takahashi's eyes narrowed. "Very well. Mion, show our guests to the rear exit and then invite her in.
This was it. If he'd been back in Mist, this was the point at which he'd be recognised as a true initiate in the art of sealcrafting, capable of conducting independent research with acceptable risk levels. As it was, Kagome-sensei at least would be pleased. Tonight, they would throw what Kagome-sensei considered a lavish party.
Huh. So a seal has a roughly graph-like topology (nodes connected by things) and converters. Presumably the nodes each do things, and the connections between them either transfer information, power, or some other resource.
This is looking like electrical engineering, components (which likely have to themselves be developed) hooked together to create more complex systems. Probably also has some compositional properties (i.e. I can group a bunch of components into a sub-system and use/reuse those sus-systems as if they were a single component). Design modularity is also probably a thing.
[X] Training Hazou: Brick Chop
[X] Training Noburi: Just What the Doctor Ordered
[X] Training Noburi: Waiting Room
[X] Training Akane: Float like a Firefly
All of these seem good.
So I'd appreciate if we could gather more details on the trial. Can we send in more than one person, in case of traps and whatnot.
In fact, I think that should be a major part of any plan we work on.
I'm also liking the idea of somehow using the five seal barrier as a defense for our cave. ... Wait, why aren't we using as part of our sealing safety setup?
I'm also liking the idea of somehow using the five seal barrier as a defense for our cave. ... Wait, why aren't we using as part of our sealing safety setup?
Why not straight up ask Keiko to ask Takahashi what is actually involved in the trial? She sees him everyday and if he doesn't tell her, that will set off all sorts of warning bells.
Also, what does the prophecy of Ui's heir say, so that we can better conform to it? I have a hard time believing that Takahashi knows nothing about Inoue and Aida's abilities, they have shared a village for generations after all, maybe he would care to share some intel on them through Keiko?
On "Surviving the Night" I see several possible courses of action:
Demand that the trial be held immediately after the vote
Pro: No chance for night attacks
Con: We might get attacked in village in broad daylight
Disappear from cave the night of the vote, hide near village, arrive at dawn.
Pro: If they can't find us, they can't attack us. (At lease until we arrive at the trial)
Con: If they have any ninja watching us, we need to break contact.
Fortify the cave and invite them to let them come.
Pro: Easiest to defend against attacks. We get to eliminate either our enemies or some of their resources.
Con: If we get overwhelmed, hardest to escape. May generate extreme bad will with the village by defending ourselves.
Though if we play it right, we could also come across as terrifying, which would be OK.
Steal the scroll immediately after Keiko finishes her training, don't wait for the vote.
Pro: We get initiative
Con: Maybe they will be waiting for us??
Con: If we successfully sneak off, we have no chance to recruit Yuno
Though there is also no chance of said recruitment going wrong.
I'm having a hard time imagining the village letting us take their sacred artifact, even if we pass the trials. For this update, I propose gathering information as though we are planning to take the trial. Later after we know a bit more about the shrine, we can decide exactly if and how to attack it. If Hazou could get close enough to see the seals for a few seconds, Kagome could probably break them even faster, and if there is an issue, we will know ahead of time.
I'm thinking a plan something like this:
Ask Kei to ask Takahashi about:
The Trial
Length?
Dangers?
Previous attempts?
The Prophecy
What does it say?
Inoue and Aida
What are their numbers?
What Techniques are they known for?
Meanwhile(ish) Noburi and Yuno go on a walk towards the shrine on their next date (check to see if there is some meaning we need to be aware of first, everything in this village has hidden meanings). Hazou follows with Akane in his usual bodyguard role. This time though, Hazou tries to get a look at the shrine seals from the outside of the building, so that he can copy them out for Kagome's later inspection.
